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Rangers Prospect Poll: #25 (Final Chance to Vote for a Prospect)

View Poll Results: Who is the #25 Rangers prospect?
Jason Missiaen 3 4.48%
Danny Hobbs 2 2.99%
Tommy Grant 5 7.46%
Jyri Niemi 28 41.79%
Cameron Talbot 10 14.93%
Peter Ceresnak 19 28.36%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-24-2011, 05:05 PM
  #1
Beacon
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Rangers Prospect Poll: #25 (Final Chance to Vote for a Prospect)

LW Jason Wilson won round 24. G Jason Missiaen became the last player to be added to our poll. All remaining prospects will be listed as "Rangers Property" and do not qualify as worthwhile prospects seeing as they failed to make the top-25 or the 5 additional Honorable Mentions. Anyone who's not in our top-30 (25+5) is probably not worth following.

However, it's still worth knowing who is our #25 prospect. There are still some solid choices on the board who deserve to be placed in the top-25.

Don't forget to write-in who should be added in the next round. Also would be good to include a discussion/argument on why you voted for a particular prospect.


TOP PROSPECTS

1. LW Chris Kreider
2. D Ryan McDonagh
3. D Tim Erixon
4. RW Christian Thomas
5. D Dylan McIlrath
6. LW Mats Zuccarello
7. LW J.T. Miller
8. LW Carl Hagelin
9. RW Jesper Fasth
10. D Pavel Valentenko


SECOND-TIER PROSPECTS

11. C Oscar Lindberg
12. D Tomas Kundratek
13. LW Ryan Bourque
14. C Andrew Yogan
15. C Steven Fogarty
16. RW Shane McColgan
17. C Michael St. Croix
18. RW Dale Weise
19. D Mikhail Pashnin
20. D Blake Parlett


SUSPECTS & PROJECTS

21. RW Andreas Thuresson
22. G Scott Stajcer
23. D Samuel Noreau
24. LW Jason Wilson


Jason Wilson
Left Wing
Born Apr 15 1990 -- Richmond Hill, ONT
Height 6.02 -- Weight 205 -- Shoots L

2010-11 Niagara IceDogs OHL 64 18 25 43 94

"Wilson is going to surprise some people. He can really play.
-Gordie Clark



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Old
07-24-2011, 05:06 PM
  #2
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G Jason Missiaen

Huge frame (6'8 220). Showed a lot of improvement in the last two seasons, while facing a lot of shots in both. Multiple teams showed interest in him but that the Rangers were the most eager to sign him. Bad stats on bad teams, but his stats are much better than other goalies on the team.

“Benoit looked at both of years and, for a 6-8 guy, he saw a big difference in the ability and athleticism to get from post to post and up and down and all that stuff from one year to the next. We decided he was worth a contract to start his NHL career and get some goaltending coaching from Benoit.”
- Gordie Clark

______________________________________________

RW DANNY HOBBS

Played on the UMass first line and led his team in points (28), power-play points (12), and plus-minus rating (plus-4). He also tied for the team lead in goals (12) and power-play goals (5), and finished second in both assists (16), and shots on goal (97). Was an All-Star in USHL when he played there. Will UMass co-captain next season.

"We could see some skill (before drafting Hobbs). We obviously always saw his strength and his hard work, and when he went into the USHL All-Star Game, he probably scored one of the most beautiful goals in that game... He came to our camp (next year), and he was one of the best conditioned athletes at the camp. He really has a lot of strength... We always knew he had some ability and he had hands. It has just taken until his junior year to get ice time to show his stuff, and he was able to do it. Once he started getting the ice time, he just ran with it and got better and better."
- Gordie Clark
______________________________________________

LW TOMMY GRANT

"He is able to really control the puck. This guy never wants to dump it in. He's very good with his hands in carrying it up the ice and making plays. He has some offense to his game in passing the puck and carrying the puck... It's just about adjusting the pace of his game to the pro game, and that's why it was important to get him into Connecticut at the end of the year. Now he's seen the size and the strength of the players at that level, and he knows what he has to do to over the summer to be ready to come back for his first year of pro."
- Gordie Clark

"The Connecticut coaches saw the offensive upside, and they saw some speed and some hands. And for an offensive guy, he was good in his own end. He's also very competitive, and they were pretty excited about that."
- Jeff Gorton

______________________________________________

D JYRI NIEMI

Good size at 6-3 206 pounds and an excellent shot, clocked at 97 mph at the Top Prospects Competition. Played good quality hockey as a 4-5 defenseman in Hartford as a 20-year-old. Captain of the finnish U20 national team. Physical and while he fights rarely, can hold his own in a fight.

"A very good defensive prospect... We got to see a lot of Niemi last season because of Sam Klassen who was Niemi's teammate on the Blades. Niemi is more an offensive minded defender who does need some work but his potential makes it worth the effort to work with him... [trading him for a 6th round pick] is a bad move by the Islanders and a very good move by the Rangers."
- The Prospect Park in 2010
______________________________________________

G CAMERON TALBOT

Goalie with good size on a weak team. Did for his college team what Lundqvist did in his early days: keep a bad team in the game, giving them a chance. Dominated at every level he played at, though he was always in rather weak places (OPJHL, College Hockey America). Almost defeated the top ranked Miami-Ohio while backstopping the very weak UofA team.

"He has size and the athleticism we like, and he was able to keep a very weak team competitive... I told our scout I expected them to get spanked in the game, but they won," said Clark. "They won it and got to go to the NCAA tournament, so I sent another couple guys in to watch him. They got beat in that second game, but in both games, they were in it... Benoit (Allaire) really likes him."
- Gordie Clark

______________________________________________

D PETER CERESNAK

A very physical defenseman who needs to improve his skating and his positioning. Hits everything that moves. The Rangers traded just to draft him.

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Old
07-24-2011, 05:07 PM
  #3
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Voting for Niemi. He really deserves this spot.

- Third round pick and still very young.
- Big: 6'3 206 pounds.
- Decent puck moving skills, hits hard and plays good defense.
- Established himself as a very solid AHL defenseman at the age of only 20.
- Captain of the very solid Finnish team at the World Junior Championship.

As far as I am concerned, anyone who at the age of 20 can play quality hockey in the AHL after being one of the top junior players in a country with a strong hockey program definitely deserves to be in our top-25, and probably not the last spot.

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07-24-2011, 05:24 PM
  #4
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Ceresnak based on lack of exposure as much as anything.

A high pick in the juniors foreign entry draft this year.

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07-24-2011, 05:30 PM
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Between Niemi and Ceresnak for me.

Going with the latter.

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07-24-2011, 05:35 PM
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Shocked at the lack of love shown to Tommy Grant. Liked what I saw of him in the AHL after we signed him last season.

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07-24-2011, 05:37 PM
  #7
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Went with Talbot because as far as i'm concerned he's the most likely to play a game in the NHL as a backup.

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07-24-2011, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Between Niemi and Ceresnak for me.

Going with the latter.

The Rangers gave up 6th round picks for both of them, but the trade for Niemi was seen as a steal because the Isles couldn't re-sign Niemi. He was valued as a ~4/5th rounder at the time. Then he had a good season in Hartford and established himself as a quality minor leaguer as a 20 year old.

Ceresnak did nothing since he fell to the 6th round. Most 6th rounders never become solid AHLers, so Niemi is already ahead of where the average 6th round pick will wind up.

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07-24-2011, 06:05 PM
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Talbot.

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07-24-2011, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
The Rangers gave up 6th round picks for both of them, but the trade for Niemi was seen as a steal because the Isles couldn't re-sign Niemi. He was valued as a ~4/5th rounder at the time. Then he had a good season in Hartford and established himself as a quality minor leaguer as a 20 year old.

Ceresnak did nothing since he fell to the 6th round. Most 6th rounders never become solid AHLers, so Niemi is already ahead of where the average 6th round pick will wind up.
I dunno, RE, Niemi was picked 3rd, traded for a 6th (I grant you that the Isles had to move him - but if he were THAT good, don't you think someone would've been willing to offer at least a 5th?) and I don't remember most of the regular Pack watchers being that impressed with him. I hope I'm wrong, but that doesn't really stand out to me.

Meanwhile, Ceresnak is certainly a wild card, but he's the kind of wild card I like - played in an absolutely abysmal environment to really stand out, but showed enough to some scouts that the Rangers traded to pick him and Peterborough drafted him 4th overall in the import draft. He's a high risk, diamond in the rough type. In a year's time, I fully expect him to either be up 10 spots in our rankings or in Tysen Dowzak territory. At this stage, the upside portion of that equation is enough to get my vote.

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07-24-2011, 06:33 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I dunno, RE, Niemi was picked 3rd, traded for a 6th (I grant you that the Isles had to move him - but if he were THAT good, don't you think someone would've been willing to offer at least a 5th?) and I don't remember most of the regular Pack watchers being that impressed with him. I hope I'm wrong, but that doesn't really stand out to me.

Meanwhile, Ceresnak is certainly a wild card, but he's the kind of wild card I like - played in an absolutely abysmal environment to really stand out, but showed enough to some scouts that the Rangers traded to pick him and Peterborough drafted him 4th overall in the import draft. He's a high risk, diamond in the rough type. In a year's time, I fully expect him to either be up 10 spots in our rankings or in Tysen Dowzak territory. At this stage, the upside portion of that equation is enough to get my vote.


Look, I'm not saying Niemi is a great prospect, but we are talking about our last-naked prospect here. We aren't talking about guys like McDonagh or even Kundratek here. But as a solid AHLer, he's already ahead of where most 6th rounders will ever wind up.

Ceresnak did play in a tough environment, but since he didn't play at all after the draft, his value should still be that of a 6th rounder, which means he should be projected as an ECHLer or marginal player in Europe.

I just went over the 2002 draft (chosen at random) and most of the players are playing in the ECHL, CHL, the second league in Sweden, Austria, Finland, VHL (Russia's league below the KHL), England. There were 2 NHLers and 2 borderline NHLers. Another half a dozen were solid players in the AHL, KHL or SEL. The rest were in the crappy leagues or marginal players in the AHL/KHL/SEL.

A guy who can establish himself as a solid AHLer is already ahead of the average 6th rounder. Doing so at the age of 20 is a real accomplishment.

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07-24-2011, 06:41 PM
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I like Hobbs. I definitely like him better than whats left.

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07-24-2011, 06:43 PM
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I am looking at other 2008 third rounders as we speak, and there are a bunch of NCAA scrubs who scored only single-digits in college, overagers who got sent back after failing to make the AHL, ECHLers and low-end Europeans.

The following players were also drafted in the third in 2008 and were in a decent league (AHL, KHL or SEL) on a full-time basis:


AHL: Shawn Lalonde, Michael Stone, Lance Bouma, Adam Henrique, Brandon McMillan, Ian Schultz, Evgeny Grachev, Tomas Kundratek and Jyri Niemi.

KHL: Kirill Petrov.

(Three others also played in the AHL or KHL, but they were all 23 years old, so I won't count them because they are so much older.)

As you can see, out of the 27 kids who got drafted as 18-19 year olds, only 9 are in the AHL and one other in the KHL. (Interestingly, 3 of the 9 were acquired by the Rangers, though Grachev has since been dealt away.)


So far, Niemi is in the top-third of the most successful third rounders. That's not good enough to make the NHL because only 10% of third rounders make the NHL, not 33%. But to suggest that he's worth less than someone who was just drafted in the 6th round is a stretch.

Niemi is easily worth a mid-round draft pick.

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07-24-2011, 06:44 PM
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I was under the impression he was doing fine in the AHL, but not great by any means.

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07-24-2011, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I was under the impression he was doing fine in the AHL, but not great by any means.
That's what I understand also. He did "well enough." The kid is very solid all around except for his skating. But again, we are talking about a #25. At this stage, everyone has significant flaws. Just because we know less about Ceresnak and other people, let's not imagine that they don't have flaws. There's a reason the whole league passed on him until the 6th round. He may skyrocket in the future, but right now his value is that of a 6th rounder, meanwhile is a better player than 70-80% of 3rd rounders drafted the same year that he was.

I suspect that if the Rangers drafted him in 2008, he'd have been ranked 10 spots earlier.

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07-24-2011, 07:12 PM
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Niemi.

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07-24-2011, 07:17 PM
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I like Niemi.

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07-24-2011, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Look, I'm not saying Niemi is a great prospect, but we are talking about our last-naked prospect here. We aren't talking about guys like McDonagh or even Kundratek here. But as a solid AHLer, he's already ahead of where most 6th rounders will ever wind up.

Ceresnak did play in a tough environment, but since he didn't play at all after the draft, his value should still be that of a 6th rounder, which means he should be projected as an ECHLer or marginal player in Europe.

I just went over the 2002 draft (chosen at random) and most of the players are playing in the ECHL, CHL, the second league in Sweden, Austria, Finland, VHL (Russia's league below the KHL), England. There were 2 NHLers and 2 borderline NHLers. Another half a dozen were solid players in the AHL, KHL or SEL. The rest were in the crappy leagues or marginal players in the AHL/KHL/SEL.

A guy who can establish himself as a solid AHLer is already ahead of the average 6th rounder. Doing so at the age of 20 is a real accomplishment.
We may be down to a difference in philosophy here. I'm always going to pick upside over progress, unless the latter significantly outweighs the former. As I said, Ceresnak may well wind up in the ECHL, but as of now the upside that the Rangers and Peterborough saw in his game (regardless of the probability that he'll get there), outweighs the fact that Niemi has basically proven himself a (mediocre) AHLer.

(As always, this doesn't mean that I don't want good things for Niemi - I hope that he takes a big step forward next year and adds to our embarrassment of defensive riches.)

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07-24-2011, 07:44 PM
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Niemi. Was the odd man out on defense a lot last year. Yeah, give Jared Nightingale all that playing time but leave out a guy with potential. Hopefully he gets the opportunity to improve himself this season in Hartford.

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07-24-2011, 08:16 PM
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Talbot.

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07-24-2011, 09:39 PM
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Niemi should take this.

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07-24-2011, 10:20 PM
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07-25-2011, 12:33 AM
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are nom'ing adds for the honorable mentions round?

went with Niemi. Arguments? Good size at 6-3 206 pounds and an excellent shot, clocked at 97 mph at the Top Prospects Competition. Played good quality hockey as a 4-5 defenseman in Hartford as a 20-year-old. Captain of the finnish U20 national team.

add Max Campbell I suppose?

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07-25-2011, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I dunno, RE, Niemi was picked 3rd, traded for a 6th (I grant you that the Isles had to move him - but if he were THAT good, don't you think someone would've been willing to offer at least a 5th?) and I don't remember most of the regular Pack watchers being that impressed with him. I hope I'm wrong, but that doesn't really stand out to me.

Meanwhile, Ceresnak is certainly a wild card, but he's the kind of wild card I like - played in an absolutely abysmal environment to really stand out, but showed enough to some scouts that the Rangers traded to pick him and Peterborough drafted him 4th overall in the import draft. He's a high risk, diamond in the rough type. In a year's time, I fully expect him to either be up 10 spots in our rankings or in Tysen Dowzak territory. At this stage, the upside portion of that equation is enough to get my vote.
he was traded for a 6th because he wasn't going to sign with the Pisles. Snow was just trying to get whatever he could. I imagine if their scouting was not complete enough, they would not offer much more than the 6th to a GM against the clock. Look at what we got Erixon for.

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07-25-2011, 01:04 AM
  #25
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are nom'ing adds for the honorable mentions round?

went with Niemi. Arguments? Good size at 6-3 206 pounds and an excellent shot, clocked at 97 mph at the Top Prospects Competition. Played good quality hockey as a 4-5 defenseman in Hartford as a 20-year-old. Captain of the finnish U20 national team.

add Max Campbell I suppose?

We aren't adding players unless people think we are really missing someone. Max Campbell wasn't signed to an NHL contract, so he's not a prospect.

Who else is left? All the prospects on the board are not guys worth following. I spent a while looking through all the remaining Ranger property and Jason Missiaen is the last guy with even the slightest chance of ever playing in the NHL or even the AHL who qualifies as a prospect under HF rules.

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