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J.T. Miller has Change of Heart, Going to OHL not NCAA

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Old
07-17-2011, 09:30 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Emma Royd View Post
You can believe what you want and "connect the dots" as you see fit. I'm just not seeing the cause for concern.
Hagelin did the same thing. Rangers wanted him to turn pro, he wanted to finish school. What's the problem with Kreider doing it?

The comments on the BC board are just being protective of one of the few returning top six players. Also, read the BC board on USCHO, it's a much better forum in terms of being honest about a player/coach.

That link to that BC board says York stated how obnoxious the Rangers have been. Well, what do you expect Jerry? They're excited about the kid's potential and they're just keeping up on him.

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07-17-2011, 10:19 AM
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Hagelin did the same thing. Rangers wanted him to turn pro, he wanted to finish school. What's the problem with Kreider doing it?

The comments on the BC board are just being protective of one of the few returning top six players. Also, read the BC board on USCHO, it's a much better forum in terms of being honest about a player/coach.

That link to that BC board says York stated how obnoxious the Rangers have been. Well, what do you expect Jerry? They're excited about the kid's potential and they're just keeping up on him.
The problem is that Hagelin is not a first round pick.

I know Kreider is going to turn pro next year, but is it begrudgingly? What kind of pro are we getting?

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07-17-2011, 10:30 AM
  #203
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The problem is that Hagelin is not a first round pick.

I know Kreider is going to turn pro next year, but is it begrudgingly? What kind of pro are we getting?
He wants to play in the NHL. Him going for his Junior year and earning his degree early doesn't change that.

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07-17-2011, 10:37 AM
  #204
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He wants to play in the NHL. Him going for his Junior year and earning his degree early doesn't change that.
Does he want it or does he WANT IT? I mean, does he lust after it? Is it at the forefront of his thoughts? This league spits kids up and chews them out if they dont have the right mentality to make it, if they won't do anything it takes to get there. Thus far we haven't had any indication from him that that is his ultimate goal and that he can't wait to get to NY to play for the Rangers. At least, from nothing I've read. If there has been can someone direct me to it please? Seriously.

If the Rangers had their drouthers he would have been 2 years in the system already, learning it and getting ready to join the big club. Torts has expressed his desire to get Kreider into the system and work with him. Hell, he might of even had call ups last year like McDonaugh did. All of this is delaying that.

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07-17-2011, 11:38 AM
  #205
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It's not the ideal situation from the perspective of the organization and the team's fans, but it is what it is. Much ado about nothing, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know the kid, so I won't question his drive or motivation. Those things manifest themselves differently in each individual. He could be MORE motivated than Miller for all I know.

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07-17-2011, 11:48 AM
  #206
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It seems pretty clear to me that JT Miller wants to play professional hockey as soon as possible, and is taking the best path he (and the Rangers) believe to get there. I donít know much about hockey development other than from reading on this board, so I canít speak to OHL vs NCAA. I tend to think both sides have legitimate arguments that one route or the other is better. But Iíll side with the Rangers - concentrating on hockey 100% of the time , and concentrating on offense more than defense is going to develop JT into the player we want him to be a little faster.

Regarding Kreider, I have to admit I believe he will be a bust. As DrSutton and others wrote, you have to be 100% committed to being an NHL player. You have to live hockey, and be willing to do whatever it takes. Chris may say the right things, and he may work hard. But I donít think that is enough.

Itís a tough job for a parent of a kid with that kind of talent. As a parent, you realize that the chances of making it in the NHL are so slim, that you should recommend your kid have other options. Like getting a degree. Yet not allowing the kid to be 100% dedicated will reduce his chances.

Playing in NCAA might be a dream and great and all that. But IMO, it is simply stupid to do that rather than make six figures to play hockey in the AHL or much more in the NHL. One year in the NHL and you can make 10+ times the average starting salary for a person with a degree. I mean, come on. I loved college, and recommend it for everyone. Everyone except a guy that can drop out of college and immediately be paid substantial money to play a sport, with a legitimate chance to make millions.

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07-17-2011, 12:03 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by n_a_c View Post
It seems pretty clear to me that JT Miller wants to play professional hockey as soon as possible, and is taking the best path he (and the Rangers) believe to get there. I donít know much about hockey development other than from reading on this board, so I canít speak to OHL vs NCAA. I tend to think both sides have legitimate arguments that one route or the other is better. But Iíll side with the Rangers - concentrating on hockey 100% of the time , and concentrating on offense more than defense is going to develop JT into the player we want him to be a little faster.

Regarding Kreider, I have to admit I believe he will be a bust. As DrSutton and others wrote, you have to be 100% committed to being an NHL player. You have to live hockey, and be willing to do whatever it takes. Chris may say the right things, and he may work hard. But I donít think that is enough.

Itís a tough job for a parent of a kid with that kind of talent. As a parent, you realize that the chances of making it in the NHL are so slim, that you should recommend your kid have other options. Like getting a degree. Yet not allowing the kid to be 100% dedicated will reduce his chances.

Playing in NCAA might be a dream and great and all that. But IMO, it is simply stupid to do that rather than make six figures to play hockey in the AHL or much more in the NHL. One year in the NHL and you can make 10+ times the average starting salary for a person with a degree. I mean, come on. I loved college, and recommend it for everyone. Everyone except a guy that can drop out of college and immediately be paid substantial money to play a sport, with a legitimate chance to make millions.
Way too early to call him a bust... One more year in the NCAA won't hurt.

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07-17-2011, 12:07 PM
  #208
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What a bunch of idiots.

Why did Kreider have to go to BC.
I'd like to see their reaction if Kreider had turned pro last summer or this summer. I'd bet that it would be similar to some of our reactions when we found out he was staying at BC. And I find it funny that they seem to ignore all of our fans who were fine with Kreider staying at BC. They make it sound like all of us were completely against his decision.

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07-17-2011, 12:07 PM
  #209
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JT Miller didn't really have a change of heart. He is 17/18 years old and a little confused.

Miller told teams at the combine

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As per usual, the US Development Program kids came out exceptionally well in the testing, which is a testament to the work they do there. Among the interviews, North Dakota recruit JT Miller reportedly told teams he was open to signing with the Plymouth Whalers of the OHL if the team that selected him wanted him to.
http://www.westerncollegehockeyblog....8552/linkorama

I saw a tweet with the same info right after the combine.

At the draft,he sounded committed to North Dakota. Didn't waver at the prospect camp right after the draft.

Then Miller decided to play in the OHL. Plymouth selected his brother in the OHL draft. His advisor/agent is also Ryan Callahan's agent.

Everyone is different. Brandon Burlon discussed his decision to leave Michigan

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This fall, heíll be at training camp with the Devils instead after passing up his senior year of college eligibility to pursue his pro hockey dream.

ďI just development-wise it was time for me to move on,Ē Burlon said. ďIt was time for a new challenge and a change of scenery really. It was nothing against the program. They gave me a great opportunity both academically and athletically and Iíll be forever grateful for that. But I made my decision and my goals now are pro goals.Ē

Burlon learned a lot in his three seasons with the Wolverines and doesnít regret going back for his junior year, in which he put up five goals and 13 assists in 38 games.

ďA third year of college never really hurts anybody,Ē the Nobleton, Ontario native said. ďYou see some guys leaving after a first year or a second year, but I think three years in college is a solid base to develop on. Some guys might need their fourth. Only time will tell whether I need it or not, but it seemed like time to move on.Ē
http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/f...s_at_michigan/

John Merrill didn't attend their prospects camp. Summer school just like Chris Kreider. The Rangers expect Kreider to leave school after his junior year and turn pro. Kreider also made the comment about needing another year at BC. Third year of college.

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07-17-2011, 12:10 PM
  #210
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Frankly, I don't think anyone has the right to question Kreider's motivation. In fact, I would go as far to say that it is completely asinine and selfish, and those people don't understand the value and importance of a college degree.

I actually like the fact that he is very committed to getting his degree as quickly as possible. He accelerated his studies after we drafted him so he wouldn't have to play a year in the USHL, and the fact he's accelerating them again tells me very much that he really wants to play in the NHL.

Also, what is wrong with playing three years in college? David Backes played three years, does anyone question his motivation level? Drury took all four years at BU, yet no one with half a brain would question his heart and dedication. Heck, our own Carl Hagelin took four years, how come no one begrudges him for not leaving early?

Seems to me that the people who want Kreider to turn pro are the ones who only stat-watch and think that he isn't making progress because of his underwhelming numbers.

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07-17-2011, 12:25 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by n_a_c View Post
It seems pretty clear to me that JT Miller wants to play professional hockey as soon as possible, and is taking the best path he (and the Rangers) believe to get there. I donít know much about hockey development other than from reading on this board, so I canít speak to OHL vs NCAA. I tend to think both sides have legitimate arguments that one route or the other is better. But Iíll side with the Rangers - concentrating on hockey 100% of the time , and concentrating on offense more than defense is going to develop JT into the player we want him to be a little faster.

Regarding Kreider, I have to admit I believe he will be a bust. As DrSutton and others wrote, you have to be 100% committed to being an NHL player. You have to live hockey, and be willing to do whatever it takes. Chris may say the right things, and he may work hard. But I donít think that is enough.

Itís a tough job for a parent of a kid with that kind of talent. As a parent, you realize that the chances of making it in the NHL are so slim, that you should recommend your kid have other options. Like getting a degree. Yet not allowing the kid to be 100% dedicated will reduce his chances.

Playing in NCAA might be a dream and great and all that. But IMO, it is simply stupid to do that rather than make six figures to play hockey in the AHL or much more in the NHL. One year in the NHL and you can make 10+ times the average starting salary for a person with a degree. I mean, come on. I loved college, and recommend it for everyone. Everyone except a guy that can drop out of college and immediately be paid substantial money to play a sport, with a legitimate chance to make millions.
JT Miller wants to do whatever the Rangers want him to do to get to the NHL and be successful there.

Unfortunately, Chris Kreider seems to want to do only what Chris Kreider wants to do, regardless of what the Rangers think he should do. Unfortunately, thus far, Kreider's offensive game doesn't seem to have developed in the way I (and it seems others) have hoped he would. At this point, it just doesn't seem likely that he'll become a 30+ goal scorer, IMO. That's what would have been best for the Rangers, and I imagine they're quite frustrated with Chris for not going along with their recommendations. We'll see that happens this year, but my hopes are not high on Chris Kreider being a major offensive threat at the NHL level.

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07-17-2011, 12:26 PM
  #212
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Frankly, I don't think anyone has the right to question Kreider's motivation. In fact, I would go as far to say that it is completely asinine and selfish, and those people don't understand the value and importance of a college degree.

I actually like the fact that he is very committed to getting his degree as quickly as possible. He accelerated his studies after we drafted him so he wouldn't have to play a year in the USHL, and the fact he's accelerating them again tells me very much that he really wants to play in the NHL.
Very well said. Hard to question the motivation and work ethic of a kid who essentially committed two summers in his youth to accelerating his studies so that he could continue to pursue both Hockey and Academics at a higher level.

I have been lucky enough to interact with Kreider in a few "social gatherings" over the past two years and I can absolutely assure you that he approaches every day - whether it involves class, workouts, or a skate with a pro mentality. He isn't "Joe College" running the beer pong table every night. This kid is as serious and dedicated as it gets, on and off the ice.

I have no doubt that when he ultimately sets his sights on joining the Rangers he will approach it with the same commitment and tenacity with which he is currently pursuing his academic and athletic endeavors at BC. Questioning his desire, work ethic, or motivation for staying in school is baseless and premature.

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Also, what is wrong with playing three years in college? David Backes played three years, does anyone question his motivation level? Drury took all four years at BU, yet no one with half a brain would question his heart and dedication. Heck, our own Carl Hagelin took four years, how come no one begrudges him for not leaving early?

Seems to me that the people who want Kreider to turn pro are the ones who only stat-watch and think that he isn't making progress because of his underwhelming numbers.
Again, great post.

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07-17-2011, 12:41 PM
  #213
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I'll even come out and say that I don't really agree with how the Rangers are handling their prospects, in the sense that seem to be trying to get all of them to go the CHL route.

That route is obviously one of the best out there, but it's not most ideal for everyone. Personally, I think Miller would of benefited more from playing at North Dakota, since he already is physically mature and might develop some bad habits against younger and smaller competition.

I almost get the sense that the Rangers want to be in as much control as possible with development, and are trying to fast-track prospects at the expense of them being in an environment they are comfortable in.

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07-17-2011, 01:20 PM
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I am absolutely being being selfish in this situation, and so what?
I know everyone wants to be the "cool guy" in this situation, but honestly, lets look at it for what it is.
He's a prospect of our favorite team. A big piece of our future that we are being sold on. Him going to college does nothing for me in that regard. Sorry, it may sound crazy, but lets boil it down to brass tacks here. All I care about is the product on the ice. And him spuring the advice of the Rangers, the organization who is in charge of putting the product on the ice. I'm fully aware of the value of an education. I have a college degree and an MBA. School is fantastic. But unless they are teaching him how to be a better pro hockey player then its meaningless to me. I went to college to earn a degree to get a job. He's already had 2 job offers.

Backes, Drury - neither of them a first round pick. this is our organizations 2009 first round selection. these are the selections that are expected the most out of. we need this guy. we need him to be a success. we need to get him under the wing of the organization and focused on his pro career so that he can hopefully be the player he was meant to be when we took him 19th overall.

i hope im wrong. 98% chance im probably wrong. just that other 2% is enough to have me worried

Heres the thing, if the rangers wanted him to still be in b.c., i wouldn't be saying anything. but they've wanted him out for the past 2 years now. 2. thats a bit of a call for concern. thats another year of people looking after him with absolutely care for his pro career.

I'm not a fan of B.C. hockey. i couldn't care less about what they do. I care about the success of the Rangers. Much like B.C. fans don't care about his pro career. It's the same ****.


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07-17-2011, 01:48 PM
  #215
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I am absolutely being being selfish in this situation, and so what?
I know everyone wants to be the "cool guy" in this situation, but honestly, lets look at it for what it is.
I'm not trying to be the "cool guy", I just don't see how Kreider not turning pro now is some kind of indication that he will fail, and that he isn't 100 percent committed to making it to the show. I'm not basing my opinion on speculation and assumptions like you seem to be doing, quite frankly.

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He's a prospect of our favorite team. A big piece of our future that we are being sold on. Him going to college does nothing for me in that regard. Sorry, it may sound crazy, but lets boil it down to brass tacks here. All I care about is the product on the ice. And him spuring the advice of the Rangers, the organization who is in charge of putting the product on the ice. I'm fully aware of the value of an education. I have a college degree and an MBA. School is fantastic. But unless they are teaching him how to be a better pro hockey player then its meaningless to me. I went to college to earn a degree to get a job. He's already had 2 job offers.
Thing is, by going back, he is continuing to learn to become a better player. Believe it or not, there is more to hockey then what happens on the ice. IMO, it's very re-assuring that Krieder has shown commitment and dedication to everything he has done so far. That will help him wonders when he turns pro, and it tells me that he is able to handle the work load that comes with being a professional.

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Backes, Drury - neither of them a first round pick. this is our organizations 2009 first round selection. these are the selections that are expected the most out of. we need this guy. we need him to be a success. we need to get him under the wing of the organization and focused on his pro career so that he can hopefully be the player he was meant to be when we took him 19th overall.
Why should it matter where a player was taken in the draft? Draft position should play no role in determining what's best for a prospect. Remember how we tried to force Malhotra into the league just because he was taken high?

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i hope im wrong. 98% chance im probably wrong. just that other 2% is enough to have me worried

Heres the thing, if the rangers wanted him to still be in b.c., i wouldn't be saying anything. but they've wanted him out for the past 2 years now. 2. thats a bit of a call for concern. thats another year of people looking after him with absolutely care for his pro career.

I'm not a fan of B.C. hockey. i couldn't care less about what they do. I care about the success of the Rangers. Much like B.C. fans don't care about his pro career. It's the same ****.
Again, you are reading way too much into this. The Rangers have wanted pretty much every one of their NCAA prospects to turn pro early, yet it seems Kreider is the only one who gets any grief for spurning them. I know his statline for BC may not look sexy, but pretty much everyone who has watched him regularly has spoken of how much more well-rounded of a player he is then when he came in from a low level prep hockey league. He's made a lot of progress since being drafted, and with all the departures on BC, he will have his chance to shine.

Patience is the key with prospects. I cannot stress that enough. Unfortunately , I'm not sure if the Rangers understand this, and it worries me a tiny bit.


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07-17-2011, 01:53 PM
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I'm not trying to be the "cool guy", I just don't see how Kreider not turning pro now is some kind of indication that he will fail, and that he isn't 100 percent committed to making it to the show.



Thing is, by going back, he is continuing to learn to become a better player. Believe it or not, there is more to hockey then what happens on the ice. IMO, it's very re-assuring that Krieder has shown commitment and dedication to everything he has done so far. That will help him wonders when he turns pro, and it tells me that he is able to handle the work load that comes with being a professional.



Why should it matter where a player was taken in the draft? Draft position should play no role in determining what's best for a prospect. Remember how we tried to force Malhotra into the league just because he was taken high?



Again, you are reading way too much into this. The Rangers have wanted pretty much every one of their NCAA prospects to turn pro early, yet it seems Kreider is the only one who gets any grief for spurning them. I know his statline for BC may not look sexy, but pretty much everyone who has watched him regularly has spoken of how much more well-rounded of a player he is then when he came in from a low level prep hockey league. He's made a lot of progress since being drafted, and with all the departures on BC, he will have his chance to shine.

Patience is the key with prospects. I cannot stress that enough.
Sorry man, I gotta trust the organization on this one. I don't care about his BC statlines and I'm not saying I want him in the NHL next year. But I want him in a place where his pro career is in the best interests of his handlers.

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07-17-2011, 01:56 PM
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It's not the ideal situation from the perspective of the organization and the team's fans, but it is what it is. Much ado about nothing, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know the kid, so I won't question his drive or motivation. Those things manifest themselves differently in each individual. He could be MORE motivated than Miller for all I know.
Kreider is a driven individual.

This nonsense that he isn't motivated is just that, nonsense.

Kreider has drive, motivation, and very strong character.

He went back for his Junior year, like you said, much ado about nothing.

He's graduating a year early so he can go pro, that's motivation and drive.

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07-17-2011, 01:57 PM
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Kreider will go pro next summer.

He's graduating next summer.
Thats a real bold prediction

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07-17-2011, 02:01 PM
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Kreider is a driven individual.

This nonsense that he isn't motivated is just that, nonsense.

Kreider has drive, motivation, and very strong character.

He went back for his Junior year, like you said, much ado about nothing.

He's graduating a year early so he can go pro, that's motivation and drive.
I don't understand how anyone can question Kreider's motivation when he does something like this...

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07-17-2011, 02:01 PM
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Thats a real bold prediction
Who said it was a prediction.

He's graduating in the summer so can sign a Pro contract.

Its a fact, not a prediction.

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07-17-2011, 02:01 PM
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Sorry man, I gotta trust the organization on this one. I don't care about his BC statlines and I'm not saying I want him in the NHL next year. But I want him in a place where his pro career is in the best interests of his handlers.
IMO, you are coming to a really faulty conclusion on Krieder's character that is based off of speculation and assumptions.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I really don't like how the Rangers are handling their NCAA prospects. They haven't seemed to noticed how getting them to leave prematurely can be very damaging to their development. Rangerboy brought up Skille (who is a very similar prospect to Kreider) leaving after two years when he never really got it going, and he has been nothing more then a 4th liner. I bet the Leafs are regretting having D'amigo leave after one year, didn't seem to be ready for the pro grind.

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07-17-2011, 02:12 PM
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I don't understand how anyone can question Kreider's motivation when he does something like this...
I think it's because he's been told that he can be a pro for the past two years. He's also, to my knowledge, never said how he's wanted to be an NHL player for the Rangers.
When you have a prospect who comes out and stays how badly he wants to be a NHL player, you start noticing things.

Let me say here, I hope more than anything that I'm wrong. More than anything. I think he has all the tools to be a great NHLer. I am probably overreacting. But our team is getting to a point where we are going to be in win now mode sooner rather than later. Is he a part of that? If he had turned pro when the Rangers had wanted him to, he would have had a spot on the team already by now. By the time he's ready, is he even in the Ranger's plans anymore?

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07-17-2011, 02:29 PM
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I think it's because he's been told that he can be a pro for the past two years. He's also, to my knowledge, never said how he's wanted to be an NHL player for the Rangers.
When you have a prospect who comes out and stays how badly he wants to be a NHL player, you start noticing things.

Let me say here, I hope more than anything that I'm wrong. More than anything. I think he has all the tools to be a great NHLer. I am probably overreacting. But our team is getting to a point where we are going to be in win now mode sooner rather than later. Is he a part of that? If he had turned pro when the Rangers had wanted him to, he would have had a spot on the team already by now. By the time he's ready, is he even in the Ranger's plans anymore?
It's a difference of one year. It that's enough of a difference for a prospect to not be included in the Rangers' plans, I think we have to question what is going on with upper management, not Kreider.

And how do you know he would of been on the team already had he signed? He was drafted as an extremely raw project, and he isn't quite done yet.

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07-17-2011, 02:39 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by ocarina View Post
It's a difference of one year. It that's enough of a difference for a prospect to not be included in the Rangers' plans, I think we have to question what is going on with upper management, not Kreider.

And how do you know he would of been on the team already had he signed? He was drafted as an extremely raw project, and he isn't quite done yet.
We just added a MAJOR piece this offseason. We are getting into win now mode soon here. If we get to a certain point, in the next year or two, where does he fit on the depth chart? How do we know who is going to step up this season, or what player might become available? He'd be a prime piece to add in a deal to something that could put us over the top.

And If he had been playing in hartford for a year before last year, with all the injuries we had, you dont think he would have gotten a look or a call up? regardless he would have been closer then then he will be in a year

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07-17-2011, 03:27 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
JT Miller wants to do whatever the Rangers want him to do to get to the NHL and be successful there.

Unfortunately, Chris Kreider seems to want to do only what Chris Kreider wants to do, regardless of what the Rangers think he should do. Unfortunately, thus far, Kreider's offensive game doesn't seem to have developed in the way I (and it seems others) have hoped he would. At this point, it just doesn't seem likely that he'll become a 30+ goal scorer, IMO. That's what would have been best for the Rangers, and I imagine they're quite frustrated with Chris for not going along with their recommendations. We'll see that happens this year, but my hopes are not high on Chris Kreider being a major offensive threat at the NHL level.
Based on what?

Stats?

Because based on watching him play at various levels, he absolutely looks like a future 30+ goal scorer.

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