HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Hockey Fights
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Hockey Fights Discuss and rate hockey fights and fighters of today and from the past. Videos welcome!

Can you teach a player how to fight?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-14-2011, 05:03 PM
  #1
Aurel Joliat
Registered User
 
Aurel Joliat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,609
vCash: 500
Can you teach a player how to fight?

Is it possible to take a very bad fighter and show him how to fight ?

For example, Georges Laraque give some lessons to Zack Stortini, who has a great frame to be a NHL fighter. Same thing with Mike Blunden, Aaron Voros or Troy Bodie. They are tall, big, but can't win a fight against smaller players !

Let me know what you think

Aurel Joliat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 05:25 PM
  #2
Kevin27nyi
Moderator
#21KO
 
Kevin27nyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,647
vCash: 50
I think so. I mean, there are techniques to hockey fights so it's not unrealistic but most of it stems on whether or not players want to be hit. If they can't shake that fear then they shouldn't fight.

Tim Jackman was a bad fighter to begin with but with more experience he got much better. Experience helps out too.

Kevin27nyi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 05:41 PM
  #3
ponder
Registered User
 
ponder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,773
vCash: 500
Depends on the person, but plenty of guys who fight in the NHL were taught how later on in life. Plenty of players who played in more of a skill role coming up, then got stuck at the AHL/ECHL/wherever, then learned how to fight to get themselves over the hump and on to an NHL 4th line/bottom pair.

ponder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 06:14 PM
  #4
PresidentCamacho*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,170
vCash: 500
Can you teach a player how to hold, spin, block, and counter your opponent? Yes.

Can you teach a player how to take a punch? No.

Can't teach toughness/aggression. Can teach self-defense.

PresidentCamacho* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 06:19 PM
  #5
jughead42*
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Windsor
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,971
vCash: 500
You can give a guy all the instruction and technique in the world but the only real way for a guy to get better at fighting is to stand in there and take his lumps. I remember a huge kid by the name of Adam Young who played for the Windsor Spitfires of the OHL several years ago. He was big and willing, however when he came to the team he couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag. After 3 or 4 years of getting his ass handed to him in just about every fight he ever took part in, he developed some technique and experience to go along with his size. By his final year of junior he was regularly tossing them with the league heavyweights and holding his own. I think its all about experience. Unless you're going to supplement the instruction with a beating or two, you're probably not going to make a fighter that much better.

jughead42* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 06:30 PM
  #6
mattihp
Registered User
 
mattihp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Uppsala
Country: Finland
Posts: 15,989
vCash: 50
Yep. You have to take lessons from your dad who is a farmer though.

mattihp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 07:25 PM
  #7
jstrag32
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 58
vCash: 500
I don't think you can teach a player how to fight. I think it has to be natural and depends on the environment they grew up in.

jstrag32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 07:34 PM
  #8
Bank Shot
Registered User
 
Bank Shot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,709
vCash: 500
Yes. It's just like any other skill. With the exceptions of players paid solely to fight, I'm not sure it is worth it for a regular player though.

They don't exactly have a tonne of free time to pursue other activities. I'd rather have a skilled forward working on his hockey skills in his spare time, rather then taking boxing/MMA lessons.

Bank Shot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 08:25 PM
  #9
TheRealSpez
Registered User
 
TheRealSpez's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 117
vCash: 500
I learned how to fight in Jr. lacrosse, basically the same strategy. My first 4/5 fights were boring wrestling matches or losses, i dedicated about a 1/4 of each practice learning how to engage and control fights. You need a mentor and practice time to develop some fundamentals. By the time my senior years came I never lost a fight, and could at least tie up some of the bigger guys out my weight class. Natural aggression and toughness is what separates the designated tough guys from the players willing to step up or defend a teammate. But to an extent, anyone can learn to be an effective fighter at a professional level.

TheRealSpez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 08:44 PM
  #10
leoleo3535
Registered User
 
leoleo3535's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: hockey rinks
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,135
vCash: 500
Yes you can and many players take training specific to fighting.

leoleo3535 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 08:50 PM
  #11
eyeball11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,297
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
Is it possible to take a very bad fighter and show him how to fight ?

For example, Georges Laraque give some lessons to Zack Stortini, who has a great frame to be a NHL fighter. Same thing with Mike Blunden, Aaron Voros or Troy Bodie. They are tall, big, but can't win a fight against smaller players !

Let me know what you think
You can teach anyone to fight respectably. Drives me nuts how many guys on the Leafs are willing but not very good fighters. Wish they would hire Domi to teach them technique (and maybe a boxing coach in offseason). If you're going to fight, do yourself a favour and learn how.

eyeball11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 09:00 PM
  #12
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 18,812
vCash: 500
I think you can teach a guy to better protect himself, but I'm not sure you can teach a Stortini to be a legit heavyweight enforcer

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 09:12 PM
  #13
HVPOLARBEARS19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NY
Country: Israel
Posts: 2,055
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to HVPOLARBEARS19 Send a message via MSN to HVPOLARBEARS19
I remember when Jessiman took boxing lessons all summer and then came to camp and everyone was saying this was going to be the turning point...nope, still got his ass beat a few times.

I guess it's possible, but a lot of it has to do with instinct. If it is just technique, then sure, but most fights don't last long, unlike a boxing match, and it's just a slug fest.

HVPOLARBEARS19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 10:52 PM
  #14
wubwubwubwub
What, Me Worry?
 
wubwubwubwub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,167
vCash: 500
I learnt how to fight, and what I learnt saved my ass during a mugging. Just by technique I was able to avoid 5 punches while setting myself up to retaliate. Without training, I would never have come close to that. There's not one hockey player who's not as strong as me, so I would say yes, absolutely, how else would they become good fighters?

wubwubwubwub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 11:02 PM
  #15
Bank Shot
Registered User
 
Bank Shot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,709
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HVPOLARBEARS19 View Post
I remember when Jessiman took boxing lessons all summer and then came to camp and everyone was saying this was going to be the turning point...nope, still got his ass beat a few times.

I guess it's possible, but a lot of it has to do with instinct. If it is just technique, then sure, but most fights don't last long, unlike a boxing match, and it's just a slug fest.
Yeah, well one summer isn't really a tonne of training time. If a player took boxing lessons for a couple of years you would likely see a marked improvement.

Bank Shot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2011, 11:21 PM
  #16
Ozzlyn
Registered User
 
Ozzlyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ghetto
Country: United States
Posts: 268
vCash: 500
a better question is can you teach a fighter how too play.

Ozzlyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2011, 06:45 PM
  #17
Bruise Bros 2426
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 807
vCash: 500
I think Troy Bodie can turn himself into a decent middleweight. He's in his mid 20s, and he has shown he is capable of throwing them, although his balance is horrible. He needs a veteran guy to show him the ropes. I think out of the guys listed, he is the most likely to improve.

Bruise Bros 2426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2011, 07:31 PM
  #18
Ten Thousand Hours
Registered User
 
Ten Thousand Hours's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 7,706
vCash: 500
You can teach a tough player how to fight, but you can't teach a player how to be tough.

Ten Thousand Hours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2011, 07:40 PM
  #19
InfinityIggy
Moderator
No Longer Flammable
 
InfinityIggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,572
vCash: 50
Just like you can teach a person to fight, you can teach a player to fight.

InfinityIggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2011, 07:41 PM
  #20
InfinityIggy
Moderator
No Longer Flammable
 
InfinityIggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,572
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
I learnt how to fight, and what I learnt saved my ass during a mugging. Just by technique I was able to avoid 5 punches while setting myself up to retaliate. Without training, I would never have come close to that. There's not one hockey player who's not as strong as me, so I would say yes, absolutely, how else would they become good fighters?
That is a highly classy story OttoMan. Same sort of thing has happened to me.

InfinityIggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2011, 10:45 PM
  #21
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,590
vCash: 500
Panthers' Nolan Yonkman at 6'6 250 got handled by Shelley.

CHGoalie27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2011, 01:49 AM
  #22
Eytinge
Registered User
 
Eytinge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 10,920
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seguin2Marshmont View Post
You can teach a tough player how to fight, but you can't teach a player how to be tough.
This. If a player is afraid to take a punch he will never be a good fighter. Stortini was always willing to go but was terrified of having his bell rung. MacIntyre on the other hand would take a punch or two but would give back just as many if not more. (usually more)

Eytinge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2011, 02:40 AM
  #23
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 41,481
vCash: 500
George Parros and Kevin Westgarth are both Princeton grads who never fought in college. They spent some years honing their skills in the minors and learned their craft in the AHL before graduating to the NHL.

During the summer months, I've seen Marty McSorley giving pointers to some Kings camp participants on fighting. There is no real science to fighting, as long as you know how to defend and throw a punch (avoiding getting punched helps as well).

Ziggy Stardust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2011, 04:15 AM
  #24
GreatGonzo
Registered Derp
 
GreatGonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: South Of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 3,558
vCash: 500
I remember Douglas Murray talked about how he took some boxing lessons in the off season and was disappointed(at that time) that he wasnt able to use what he was taught.

GreatGonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2011, 12:30 PM
  #25
McDonald19
Hampus
 
McDonald19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 18,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
Can you teach a player how to hold, spin, block, and counter your opponent? Yes.

Can you teach a player how to take a punch? No.

Can't teach toughness/aggression. Can teach self-defense.
I agree. I think Stortini simply doesn't want to take a punch in the face. You either have the mentality that you don't mind taking a punch to land a punch or you don't.

McDonald19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:30 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.