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Luke Schenn's next contract

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Old
07-15-2011, 11:23 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Corbeau View Post
"Unproven" is not a good word to describe Schenn...
He's unproven as a top-4 defenseman.

He's not going to break bank this season in all likelihood; that'll be on the contract after his new one.

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07-15-2011, 11:25 AM
  #27
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I would be shocked if Schenn signs for less then 3 million a year. I am expecting a 3 - 4 year deal worth 3.5 - 4 million a year. Just my two cents.

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07-15-2011, 11:25 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
He's unproven as a top-4 defenseman.

He's not going to break bank this season in all likelihood; that'll be on the contract after his new one.
Completely disagree.

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07-15-2011, 11:27 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Staal was his team's #1 defenseman at the time of his signing; Schenn currently is not, and is not of that caliber. He's also younger, and plays less minutes than Staal. He doesn't have the leverage to earn $3M on average at this point. That is what he'll likely get on his 3rd contract.
The comparison is a whole lot close than your making it out to be. They followed the poitn total progression similarily, with Schenn having higher first and 2nd year totals than Staal but Staal outscoring Schenn in thid years (by 5 points). Schenn had higher shot totals but both had similar PIM's. Both play very similar games.

The TOI thing is actually a lot close than you think. Schenn played more minutes in his first year than Staal by 2 minutes or so. Staal played more than 4 minutes in 2nd year however but in their 3rd years they were comparable with Staal getting only 50 odd seconds more than Schenn.

The only difference really was Phaneuf playing more, being the number 1. Staal was the best on the Rangers but only because there wasn't a Phaneuf comparable at the time.

So really the two contracts should be similar. The two players themselves are similar in almost every way.

I would really like Schenn to get less. Less than 3 million would be great for the team but I think he will get closer to Staal's if not identical to it.

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07-15-2011, 11:27 AM
  #30
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Don't see what there is to disagree about.

I love Schenn, but in regards to negotiations, his age is going to be used against him by Burke and co. It's the right move to make, too; sign him to a cheap deal while you still can.

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07-15-2011, 11:28 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
He's unproven as a top-4 defenseman.

He's not going to break bank this season in all likelihood; that'll be on the contract after his new one.
How many seasons as a top 4 does he need til he's no longer "unproven" then?

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07-15-2011, 11:30 AM
  #32
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unless schenn signs a short contract, i don't see how alzner's will make ANY impact.

burke will want to sign him longer term imo and that will be more expensive. closer to staal contract than alzner

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07-15-2011, 11:30 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
The comparison is a whole lot close than your making it out to be. They followed the poitn total progression similarily, with Schenn having higher first and 2nd year totals than Staal but Staal outscoring Schenn in thid years (by 5 points). Schenn had higher shot totals but both had similar PIM's. Both play very similar games.

The TOI thing is actually a lot close than you think. Schenn played more minutes in his first year than Staal by 2 minutes or so. Staal played more than 4 minutes in 2nd year however but in their 3rd years they were comparable with Staal getting only 50 odd seconds more than Schenn.

The only difference really was Phaneuf playing more, being the number 1. Staal was the best on the Rangers but only because there wasn't a Phaneuf comparable at the time.

So really the two contracts should be similar. The two players themselves are similar in almost every way.

I would really like Schenn to get less. Less than 3 million would be great for the team but I think he will get closer to Staal's if not identical to it.
I'm not going to argue Schenn/Staal in terms of opinionated analysis; the contract situations are different. Schenn is 2 years younger than Staal, and isn't as relied upon as the Staal at the time of their signings.

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07-15-2011, 11:33 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
I'm not going to argue Schenn/Staal in terms of opinionated analysis; the contract situations are different. Schenn is 2 years younger than Staal, and isn't as relied upon as the Staal at the time of their signings.
I wasn't trying to be opinionated. I just disagreed on how heavily he was relied upon. I think it was a lot similar than your making it out to be. Not to the same level as Staal fully, but not the dearth between the two your making it out to be. I hope that Burke uses age to get a lower contract hit, but Schenn could use that same argument as a reason for a higer contract.

"I played at a top 4 level for two/thirds of my NHL career now, being 21 and under the whole time".

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07-15-2011, 11:34 AM
  #35
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Also; Staal was closer to unrestricted free agency at the time of his re-signing than Schenn is now.

If Toronto buys out 2 UFA years like the Rangers did with Staal, then Schenn's contract will probably be in line with what Staal got.

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07-15-2011, 11:36 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
"I played at a top 4 level for two/thirds of my NHL career now, being 21 and under the whole time".
Restricted Free Agents have no leverage though, it's not like he can sit out an entire season and if they sign a 1 or 2 year deal he will still be a RFA.

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07-15-2011, 11:36 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Well, in comparison to your average NHL player, he's relatively unproven.

He had a good rookie year, a very rocky sophomore year, and an exceptional junior year. Playing 3 years will help in getting more on a yearly basis than his comparables did, but he's still more than likely regarded as somewhat "unproven", as he's still just a 21 year old.
An exceptional Junior year? I assume the word junior is a typo because his first season would be considered his junior year AKA his rookie year

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07-15-2011, 11:37 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
An exceptional Junior year? I assume the word junior is a typo because his first season would be considered his junior year AKA his rookie year
junior year = 3rd year

not rookie

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07-15-2011, 11:37 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
An exceptional Junior year? I assume the word junior is a typo because his first season would be considered his junior year AKA his rookie year
I'm just going by the school standard:

Rookie/Freshman
Sophomore
Junior
Senior

Not that that matters, but I'm a grammar/word freak myself.

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07-15-2011, 11:38 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
An exceptional Junior year? I assume the word junior is a typo because his first season would be considered his junior year AKA his rookie year
By junior year, he means 3rd season, you know like your junior year in high school or college being your 3rd year in school.

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07-15-2011, 11:39 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Also; Staal was closer to unrestricted free agency at the time of his re-signing than Schenn is now.

If Toronto buys out 2 UFA years like the Rangers did with Staal, then Schenn's contract will probably be in line with what Staal got.
That is a very good point, one I completely overlooked. Good call.

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07-15-2011, 11:41 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Also; Staal was closer to unrestricted free agency at the time of his re-signing than Schenn is now.

If Toronto buys out 2 UFA years like the Rangers did with Staal, then Schenn's contract will probably be in line with what Staal got.
That is a very good point, one i had completely forgotten and overlooked. Great point.

Edit: Sorry for the double post. HFboards was lagging so I thought my post didn't go through.

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07-15-2011, 11:42 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
By junior year, he means 3rd season, you know like your junior year in high school or college being your 3rd year in school.
where I went to high school our Junior years were our first 2 years then we became seniors in grade 11 and 12. Our high school also had grade 13

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07-15-2011, 11:42 AM
  #44
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Perhaps $2.7-3M per. I first surmised he would get $3.7M like a top-4 D-man of his caliber but if the Leafs really were willing to give $3.7M per he would be signed by now.

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07-15-2011, 11:43 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Im Old Gregggg View Post
i really think lukes value is more inline with m.staals value instead of alzners

imo it will be a shade bellow staals current cap hit .... thinking 3-3.25 mil annual
This.

Schenn signs for about 3 mill per.

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07-15-2011, 11:43 AM
  #46
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Folks, Schenn hasn't proven that he can be a consistent top 4 player yet. Yes he was one last year, but he needs to do it at least once or twice more. He SHOULD easily do that, but until he does, we can't really say he is completely prove.

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07-15-2011, 11:44 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by shaner89 View Post
Schenn is alot more proven then Alzer and alot better at what he does.
yeah you shouldn't say things like this on this forum. they have a love affair with alzner right now

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07-15-2011, 11:45 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
where I went to high school our Junior years were our first 2 years then we became seniors in grade 11 and 12. Our high school also had grade 13
well that's just weird

glad I didn't have the 13th grade

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07-15-2011, 11:45 AM
  #49
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Just for reference, this is Staal's contract structure based on actual salary:

YearSalaryCap Hit
2010-11 $3,100,000$3,975,000
2011-12$3,675,000$3,975,000
2012-13 $3,775,000$3,975,000
2013-14$3,875,000$3,975,000
2014-15$5,450,000$3,975,000

Buys out 2 UFA years as I stated above.

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07-15-2011, 11:46 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
yeah you shouldn't say things like this on this forum. they have a love affair with alzner right now
even though it is the truth

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