HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Who's better: Lidstrom or Pronger?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-05-2004, 04:07 PM
  #126
Epsilon
#TeamHolland
 
Epsilon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Florence, SC
Posts: 36,763
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller
Part of being a great defenseman is usually having a physical presence, you you face off against the Fedorovs and Ziggy Palffys of the world they are almost completely ineffective because they are afraid to pay the price.
:lol

Right, Fedorov is completely ineffective when the going gets tough...that's why he has three Stanley Cup rings, a point per game average in the playoffs (with over 160 points), could have realistically won the Conn Smythe three times, and is generally viewed as one of the great clutch players and all-around performers of his era.

Please do not speak on things about which you obviously know nothing.

Epsilon is offline  
Old
08-05-2004, 04:15 PM
  #127
coolhandluke2410
"BleedBlue44"
 
coolhandluke2410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 2,639
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to coolhandluke2410 Send a message via Yahoo to coolhandluke2410
this thread is just so flippin stupid, you guys are talking about the hit again?! godddd, get over it!

coolhandluke2410 is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 10:12 AM
  #128
degroat*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: http://nhl.degroat.n
Posts: 8,108
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
OK, GENIUS, here are the REAL numbers for the past 6 years (your time line):
Lidstrom: Pronger:
1998-99 57 pts. 46 pts.
1999-00 73 pts. 62 pts.
2000-01 71 pts. 47 pts.
2001-02 59 pts. 47 pts.
2002-03 62 pts. 4 pts.
2003-04 38 pts. 54 pts.

As you can see (or can you?), Pronger is BY FAR the lesser scorer, and has been the past 6 years (again, YOUR time line). He has outscored Lidstrom ONCE (last season) in those 6 years. Give your head a shake! They are NOT equal offensively and never have been! Sheesh! Even IF Pronger could stay healthy, he would still be getting outscored by Nik (using your accurate .742 for Lidstrom, .722 for Pronger PPG). But he doesn't stay healthy, and that's part of why Lidstrom is a better pick.
Do you realize what you're saying? Let me sum it up for you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
Because Lidstrom has played a lot more games than Pronger over the last 6 years, then Pronger is BY FAR the lesser scorer
That's exactly what you're saying.

As their PPG's over the last 6 years demonstrate, Lidstrom barely outscores Pronger. There's not a single thing you could say to prove otherwise because it is a FACT that their PPG's are .742 to .722 and it is a FACT that Pronger is no where near 'BY FAR the lesser scorer'.

What he is, is 'BY FAR the more injured player'. If you want to use that as a reason to pick Lidstrom, that's your prerogative.

But, to sit here and try to claim that Lidstrom has 'BY FAR' outproduced Pronger is ludacris given the fact that the numbers staring you in the face prove otherwise.

degroat* is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 10:28 AM
  #129
Happy_Gilmore's_Dad
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Stich -

It's an OPINION.

Does somebody POO in your Cheerios every morning??

Happy_Gilmore's_Dad is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 12:04 PM
  #130
degroat*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: http://nhl.degroat.n
Posts: 8,108
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy_Gilmore's_Dad
Stich -

It's an OPINION.

Does somebody POO in your Cheerios every morning??
TBP,

No, it's not an opinion. What he is saying is based on stats which are fact, not an opinion and the facts prove him wrong.

Please get over your obsession.

K Thanks Bye.

degroat* is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 12:18 PM
  #131
rye&ginger
Registered User
 
rye&ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,156
vCash: 500
Lidstrom checks without taking penalties. He is better for that simple reason. He is up there with the best d-men of all time I feel.

rye&ginger is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 12:45 PM
  #132
Happy_Gilmore's_Dad
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Jiggs10 Wrote:

"They are NOT equal offensively and never have been! Sheesh! Even IF Pronger could stay healthy, he would still be getting outscored by Nik (using your accurate .742 for Lidstrom, .722 for Pronger PPG). But he doesn't stay healthy, and that's part of why Lidstrom is a better pick."


That's Funny Stich - This sounds like an opinion based on fact.

I might have an obsession proving you wrong, (because it's sooo easy), but you have an obsession with proving OPINIONS and SPECULATION wrong. It's getting SICKER and SICKER in every post that you type.

Happy_Gilmore's_Dad is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 01:00 PM
  #133
degroat*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: http://nhl.degroat.n
Posts: 8,108
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy_Gilmore's_Dad
Jiggs10 Wrote:

"They are NOT equal offensively and never have been! Sheesh! Even IF Pronger could stay healthy, he would still be getting outscored by Nik (using your accurate .742 for Lidstrom, .722 for Pronger PPG). But he doesn't stay healthy, and that's part of why Lidstrom is a better pick."


That's Funny Stich - This sounds like an opinion based on fact.

I might have an obsession proving you wrong, (because it's sooo easy), but you have an obsession with proving OPINIONS and SPECULATION wrong. It's getting SICKER and SICKER in every post that you type.
If you are saying that his opinion is "Lidstrom is a better pick" then you'd accurate be pointing out that that is an opinion.

Unfortunately for you, I never once responded to that comment. What I responded to were his claims that Lidstrom is 'BY FAR" better offensively than Pronger and I proved by using FACTS that that is not correct. It's not an opinion.

Good luck in future attempts to prove me wrong, TBP. You certainly need it.

degroat* is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 01:03 PM
  #134
Howard35
Registered User
 
Howard35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,269
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Howard35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
TBP,

No, it's not an opinion. What he is saying is based on stats which are fact, not an opinion and the facts prove him wrong.

Please get over your obsession.

K Thanks Bye.
i noticed every post ive seen of yours in the past 2 wks or whatever has been a fight against someone because someone has a different opinion on something...

give it a rest...

Howard35 is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 02:55 PM
  #135
degroat*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: http://nhl.degroat.n
Posts: 8,108
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40
i noticed every post ive seen of yours in the past 2 wks or whatever has been a fight against someone because someone has a different opinion on something...

give it a rest...
First of all, that's a load of crap.

Secondly, At least my posts are about hockey and about the topic at hand and not an attack of another poster. This nonsense you just posted in this thread along with the nonsense from my good friend Happy are much worse for this board than anything I've ever posted.

degroat* is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 06:35 PM
  #136
Howard35
Registered User
 
Howard35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,269
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Howard35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
First of all, that's a load of crap.

Secondly, At least my posts are about hockey and about the topic at hand and not an attack of another poster. This nonsense you just posted in this thread along with the nonsense from my good friend Happy are much worse for this board than anything I've ever posted.
:lol

Howard35 is offline  
Old
08-07-2004, 12:16 AM
  #137
X8oD
Registered User
 
X8oD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: 612 Warf Ave.
Country: United States
Posts: 7,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by c-carp
What if the situations are reversed its Pronger ducking to avoid an Yzerman hit and he tears his knee up. Prongs is a cheap and or mean player at times so I think there would have been a lot more *****ing about the play if the roles were reversed and I would have admitted that the play was just as cheap. To me going in low on a player to avoid a hit wether he saw him coming at the last minute or not was a cheap play.
If Yzerman Jumped up, then yes It would of been Yzerman's fault.

Just like why its Prongers fault. Yzerman bent over, but didnt bend his knees. Prongers KNEE hit yzerman's Hip. The knee bent out of "whack" but i dont believe that caused the injury. The injury happend because the knee was not in place when he landed from his leaping attempt to head hunt yzerman. he ended up slamming his knee on the ice. [thats just opinion, it could of very well happened when the knee hit yzermans hip] He had his Elbows and Forearms up going for Yzermans head, and he came off the ice to do so. Yzerman, at the last second saw Pronger and got his head out of the way of some nice elbow and forearm action.

If Pronger didnt jump, the hit is a complete non-factor, and Pronger doesnt injure himself. Yzerman has no obligation to keep his face there because pronger is coming from his blind side to hit him.

to me, the "cheapness" of somebody bending or ducking is a non-factor when the person attempting to hit him is coming from behind, with his elbows up going for the guys head, and he leaves the ice. At that point, if the guy isnt gonna feed him some lumber old school style, duck and do what ever you want.

X8oD is offline  
Old
08-07-2004, 09:22 AM
  #138
degroat*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: http://nhl.degroat.n
Posts: 8,108
vCash: 500
LOLOLOLOL!

First of all, I don't think Yzerman did anything cheap. He reacted naturally to someone trying to check them.

That said, X8oD, you are completely off base here.
1. Yzerman was skating down the ice straight towards Pronger. He was not facing the other way as you claim.
2. Pronger did not jump at all.
3. Pronger's elbows were no where near where you say they were.

The simple fact that you think Yzerman was facing the other way when it happened proves that you've either a) never once seen a replay or even the play when it happened or b) suffer from extreme homerific selective memory. Which ever it is I don't really care, but Yzerman was definately facing Pronger when Pronger attempted to stand him up at the blueline.

degroat* is offline  
Old
08-07-2004, 01:28 PM
  #139
SChan*
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
1. And Pronger could be the first Canadian ever to win the Conn Smythe. (No, someone else beat him to that.) Seriously, this should go with #3 below.
2. and....?
3. Lidstrom had to play 7+ seasons before winning his 1st Cup. Ray Bourque had to play 21 seasons before winning one. So...does that mean Lidstrom is a better defenseman than Bourque? And Darren McCarty has 3 Cups to his credit, Joe Sakic has only 2. So does that mean McCarty is better than Sakic?

Seriously....the "reasons" some people offer to justify their pick are just laughable.

I say we listen to Higgy4 - this thread was done last year before Black Thursday and turned into a huge pissing contest that ended up with the thread being closed...so I don't see where anything is going to be gained by going further.
here is the most ignorant post in this thread by far. He said "and?" when Lidstrom won 3 norris great argument.

SChan* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:16 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.