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Mathieu Carle traded to Ducks for Mark Mitera

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Old
07-15-2011, 06:25 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by DumFries View Post
I don't like these kind of moves, the trading for the sake of trading. Second in the past few weeks. Gauthier seems to collect other teams problems. At least, keep your assets and trade for a good NHL player or get some picks in return instead of AHL players that are behind in development. The team keeps collecting these former high round picks that go nowhere. I am not too high on Mitera nor Blunden. Pouliot was a good fighter at least. He obliterated Krejci with one punch. He also scored some 15 goals. I am not sure the Blundens and Miteras of this world will give you any offense nor are they capable of winning fights or fighting for that matter.
Let's look at it from a different angle. Carle was going to need to pass through waivers, so the team could have lost him for nothing. Given that, he wasn't worth a draft pick. He was indeed a 'problem' for Montreal. Why not deal him for a player who, at the very least, will be a solid citizen on the AHL team, and who may develop into an asset? The alternative is to potentially lose Carle for free. How could you dislike such a move?

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07-15-2011, 06:31 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Let's look at it from a different angle. Carle was going to need to pass through waivers, so the team could have lost him for nothing. Given that, he wasn't worth a draft pick. He was indeed a 'problem' for Montreal. Why not deal him for a player who, at the very least, will be a solid citizen on the AHL team, and who may develop into an asset? The alternative is to potentially lose Carle for free. How could you dislike such a move?
He went through waivers last year and nobody picked Carle up. Many teams are stuck with this situation every training camp. Many teams are forced to put players like Carle on waivers because of the collective bargaining rules. The risk of losing him was small. Most of the players don't get claimed by any other teams in fear. There is mutual respect between teams just like when it comes to RFAs.

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07-15-2011, 06:33 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Let's look at it from a different angle. Carle was going to need to pass through waivers, so the team could have lost him for nothing. Given that, he wasn't worth a draft pick. He was indeed a 'problem' for Montreal. Why not deal him for a player who, at the very least, will be a solid citizen on the AHL team, and who may develop into an asset? The alternative is to potentially lose Carle for free. How could you dislike such a move?
I like this view. Kinda like a lesser version of the d'agostini trade.

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07-15-2011, 06:35 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Let's look at it from a different angle. Carle was going to need to pass through waivers, so the team could have lost him for nothing. Given that, he wasn't worth a draft pick. He was indeed a 'problem' for Montreal. Why not deal him for a player who, at the very least, will be a solid citizen on the AHL team, and who may develop into an asset? The alternative is to potentially lose Carle for free. How could you dislike such a move?
Completely agree with your post, that's indeed the best way to manage assets, we at least got something useful for an all but gone player. And it's not like we have a ton of players like Mitera in our system...

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07-15-2011, 06:37 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by DumFries View Post
He went through waivers last year and nobody picked Carle up. Many teams are stuck with this situation every training camp. Many teams are forced to put players like Carle on waivers because of the collective bargaining rules. The risk of losing him was small. Most of the players don't get claimed by any other teams in fear. There is mutual respect between teams just like when it comes to RFAs.
I don't agree that there is mutual respect on this front. Teams make waiver claims frequently. Further, as the poster montreal rightly noted earlier, Carle was coming off of injury the last time he passed through waivers, thus reducing his perceived value.

I don't agree either that the risk of losing Carle was minimal. Clearly, there was some modest interest, given that he was just traded. Another team wants to give him a shot. That's interest. And that interest was likely sufficient to put forth a waiver claim. Heck, for all we know, the Canadiens may have floated a fax around to see if there was interest in Carle because they knew that they'd be tossing him on the waiver wire, and the Ducks bit. Then the Habs would have been foolish to have neglected to pursue a trade, knowing full well that the Ducks would have put in a claim.

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07-15-2011, 07:01 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I don't agree that there is mutual respect on this front. Teams make waiver claims frequently. Further, as the poster montreal rightly noted earlier, Carle was coming off of injury the last time he passed through waivers, thus reducing his perceived value.

I don't agree either that the risk of losing Carle was minimal. Clearly, there was some modest interest, given that he was just traded. Another team wants to give him a shot. That's interest. And that interest was likely sufficient to put forth a waiver claim. Heck, for all we know, the Canadiens may have floated a fax around to see if there was interest in Carle because they knew that they'd be tossing him on the waiver wire, and the Ducks bit. Then the Habs would have been foolish to have neglected to pursue a trade, knowing full well that the Ducks would have put in a claim.
The thing is many of these trades don't work in Montreal's favor. Mitera has potential as you claim but how many of these young assets have been let go too hastily and Montreal has nothing to show for it. Sergei Kostityn was given for free practically. He may have been a cancer but the kid has become one of the Preds best players. Montreal has nothing. Streit was another. Robidas and Beauchemin were lost through waivers. The team learned their lesson here at least. Ribeiro was given for free because he was a cancer. And so was Latendresse and on top of that Pouliot is gone too for free. Montreal should at least try to improve the team. If Anaheim bought, Montreal could of added a piece or two and get a proven NHL player. I hope Carle doesn't turn into another of those players mentioned above. Well for Mitera, my hopes are not too high. The team will let him walk once his contract is done and that is the problem.

The list goes on. Maxwell was traded for Sopel and Dawes. Dawes and Sopel are not coming back. Lapierre was traded for Festerling and Festerling was given for Mcyntire. Bye bye Mcytinre. Last season, Montreal lost Lapierre and Maxwell for nothing.

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07-15-2011, 07:02 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by DumFries View Post
I don't like these kind of moves, the trading for the sake of trading
It's not trading for the sake of trading. It's swapping players in similar position in the hope of getting someone decent after a fresh start. Carle wasn't going to make the club. Mitera won't make it this year either, but Gauthier clearly hope he's gonna break out in the organization. Think about Patrick Sharp. He wasn't great in Philly, but he broke out in Chicago. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't think it will happen with Mitera, but sometime, those small trade are important. Some players just need a fresh start.


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Second in the past few weeks. Gauthier seems to collect other teams problems. At least, keep your assets and trade for a good NHL player or get some picks in return instead of AHL players that are behind in development. The team keeps collecting these former high round picks that go nowhere. I am not too high on Mitera nor Blunden.
Trade for a good NHL player? Clearly, Carle's value was close to nothing. No team would have given a decent pick for him, so the only value he had was a player in a similar position. And Mitera, nor Blunden were problems. They were just players who had no future with their respective team. Just like Carle after all...


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Pouliot was a good fighter at least. He obliterated Krejci with one punch. He also scored some 15 goals. I am not sure the Blundens and Miteras of this world will give you any offense nor are they capable of winning fights or fighting for that matter.
Pouliot a good fighter? He was good againt players who couldn't fight. Krejci is a poor fighter...even Plekanec would give him a hard time. And sure, he scored 15 goals, but he was a no show in the playoffs, and he was incredibly inconsistent. Also, the Latendresse - Pouliot trade was exactly the same kind of trade as the Carle - Mitera trade. The only difference is the first trade involved players who were highly regarded...players who had real NHL potential.

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07-15-2011, 07:21 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by DumFries View Post
The thing is many of these trades don't work in Montreal's favor. Mitera has potential as you claim but how many of these young assets have been let go too hastily and Montreal has nothing to show for it.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying. I don't think it applies in this instance, though. It's clear that Carle isn't making the team, and that he would be placed on waivers. It's equally evident that the Ducks had interest in him, hence the trade. Logical conclusion is that the Ducks would claim Carle.

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07-15-2011, 07:28 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by DumFries View Post
He went through waivers last year and nobody picked Carle up. Many teams are stuck with this situation every training camp. Many teams are forced to put players like Carle on waivers because of the collective bargaining rules. The risk of losing him was small. Most of the players don't get claimed by any other teams in fear. There is mutual respect between teams just like when it comes to RFAs.
I disagree with Mike. Nothing you say makes sense. How could you whine about an asset we got for free ?

The bolded part. You made that up. Any player that goes through waivers is basically worthless. Carle hasn't done anything to raise his stock since then.

Jeez.

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07-15-2011, 07:33 PM
  #110
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I like this view. Kinda like a lesser version of the d'agostini trade.
That's what i was alluding to earlier, Gauthier likes these kinds of moves, trading guys for slightly younger ones with more waiver options/flexibility.

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07-15-2011, 08:06 PM
  #111
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Completely agree with your post, that's indeed the best way to manage assets, we at least got something useful for an all but gone player. And it's not like we have a ton of players like Mitera in our system...
Too bad the team can't manage UFA's this way.

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07-15-2011, 08:23 PM
  #112
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Too bad the team can't manage UFA's this way.
I disagree.

Gainey was a disaster, letting Souray, Kovalev, Koivu, Komisarek, etc walk for nothing.

Gauthier has not been this bad. Wisniewski was our rental and we got a 5th back which is better than Gainey ever did. With respect to Hamrlik, the team hoped to keep him.

Gauthier may turn out to be as bad, but thus far he has not been in a situation where selling at the deadline is wise, so we can't know. However, getting a 5th for Wisniewski shows entrepreneurialism imo.

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07-15-2011, 08:23 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Let's look at it from a different angle. Carle was going to need to pass through waivers, so the team could have lost him for nothing. Given that, he wasn't worth a draft pick. He was indeed a 'problem' for Montreal. Why not deal him for a player who, at the very least, will be a solid citizen on the AHL team, and who may develop into an asset? The alternative is to potentially lose Carle for free. How could you dislike such a move?
Love this post, epic point of view, and its the way to think with this trade, potential 5-6 shut down D, maybe like a Shane O'Brien type of player

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07-15-2011, 08:43 PM
  #114
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I disagree.

Gainey was a disaster, letting Souray, Kovalev, Koivu, Komisarek, etc walk for nothing.

Gauthier has not been this bad. Wisniewski was our rental and we got a 5th back which is better than Gainey ever did. With respect to Hamrlik, the team hoped to keep him.

Gauthier may turn out to be as bad, but thus far he has not been in a situation where selling at the deadline is wise, so we can't know. However, getting a 5th for Wisniewski shows entrepreneurialism imo.
People needs to stop with those "we let him go for nothing". Lots of teams will lose players for nothing. Dallas didn't trade Richard at the trade deadline, Cole in Carolina...why? Because they wanted to make the playoffs. Just like us when we kept Souray.

You trade those UFAs only when you are rebuilding. If you have a chance to make the playoffs, you have a chance to win the cup. If you can win the cup, you keep your players, even if you lose some for nothing.

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07-15-2011, 08:50 PM
  #115
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The list goes on. Maxwell was traded for Sopel and Dawes. Dawes and Sopel are not coming back. Lapierre was traded for Festerling and Festerling was given for Mcyntire. Bye bye Mcytinre. Last season, Montreal lost Lapierre and Maxwell for nothing.
These were good trades IMO.

Maxwell is a fringe NHL talent who had no role on the teams; for him we got an emergency defender in Sopel who helped us in the playoffs even if things didn't work out as we hoped; he was flawed but he did a decent job replacing Gorges. Dawes was a replacement, if not an upgrade for the Bulldogs, and his scoring helped our prospects get some good playoff experience.

The Lapierre trade was not a good one but he forced his way out, and Mcyntire also ended up being a big part of the Bulldogs success. Just because him and Dawes are gone doesn't mean they didn't contribute; they helped develop a winning culture in Hamilton that helped our prospects.

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07-15-2011, 08:52 PM
  #116
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People needs to stop with those "we let him go for nothing". Lots of teams will lose players for nothing. Dallas didn't trade Richard at the trade deadline, Cole in Carolina...why? Because they wanted to make the playoffs. Just like us when we kept Souray.

You trade those UFAs only when you are rebuilding. If you have a chance to make the playoffs, you have a chance to win the cup. If you can win the cup, you keep your players, even if you lose some for nothing.
Agreed. The Habs were always in a position to make the playoffs and win a round when they lost most of those UFA's. In retrospect it seems like bad management but I would rather the team keep a strong lineup going into the playoffs then trade UFA's for picks when you're not really rebuilding.

As for this trade it is good asset management. We would have lost Carle for nothing on waivers or at the end of they year, so at least we get a player who could possibly crack the lineup by next year. He's more valuable to Montreal than Carle was at this point.

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07-15-2011, 08:53 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by DumFries View Post
He went through waivers last year and nobody picked Carle up. Many teams are stuck with this situation every training camp. Many teams are forced to put players like Carle on waivers because of the collective bargaining rules. The risk of losing him was small. Most of the players don't get claimed by any other teams in fear. There is mutual respect between teams just like when it comes to RFAs.
I think Nabakov would disagree with you thanks to the Islanders. Also, go ask St. Louis about the respect when they also lost a player through waivers that they worked a contract out with. There is not a lot of respect between the GMs.

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07-15-2011, 09:48 PM
  #118
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Some 2006 scouting reports from RLR:
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Mark Mitera is, like Summers, frequently overlooked since he's not flashy. But he is big and physical, and plays a sound defensive game. Mitera needs to make his decisions faster in puck movement, but he's an intelligent kid who works hard on his game and has made steady incremental progress.

Mathieu Carle is an enigma in that he has as much offensive skill as any defender in this draft, but we don't know if he wants to be a player bad enough. He's got fabulous passing skills: crisp, accurate breakouts and creative touch passes through traffic. Super soft hands and great vision make him one of the best PP quarterbacks in this year's group. Yet Carle has never shown the will to get himself into top physical condition, and lugs around a soft, paunchy body that exacerbates his mediocre footwork and leads to mistakes and a lack of stamina. If he'd ever get his head on straight and decide to take the game seriously, he could be a real player. But that's a big IF.
I love to read Red Line Report though I take it with a grain of salt. He was a guy who thought Andrei Kostitsyn was most talented player in the 2003 draft and noted how courageous and determined he is. He also had a huge crush on Ryan McDonagh in 2007 IIRC.

source url: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...fensemen_x.htm

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07-15-2011, 10:08 PM
  #119
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Some 2006 scouting reports from RLR:


I love to read Red Line Report though I take it with a grain of salt. He was a guy who thought Andrei Kostitsyn was most talented player in the 2003 draft and noted how courageous and determined he is. He also had a huge crush on Ryan McDonagh in 2007 IIRC.

source url: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...fensemen_x.htm
To me, both reports are incredibly dead on. I was saying that as far as Carle is concerned about his attitude and other mental aspects of the game. To see Woodlief talking about it means it was really apparent. Or Woodlief did his job. And I also agree with Mitera. He had and still have some speed to gain...but how this guy is not in the NHL yet is beyond me.

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07-15-2011, 10:13 PM
  #120
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Yeah that's why I posted it, cause both you and another guy in the thread from Gatineau noted concerns about Carle's desire to play.

Surprised Carle didn't dominate the AHL offensively though. Really thought he's at least be a really good pro player, but he was surpassed by guys like St-Denis and Nash.

The report on Erik Johnson is a little bit over the top though.... but maybe it's still early to judge. The Avalanche must still think that if they traded Stewart and Shattenkirk for him and a 1st.

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07-15-2011, 10:13 PM
  #121
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I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying. I don't think it applies in this instance, though. It's clear that Carle isn't making the team, and that he would be placed on waivers. It's equally evident that the Ducks had interest in him, hence the trade. Logical conclusion is that the Ducks would claim Carle.
Obviously! If they gave us a former first round draft pick still on ELC for him, they would quite possibly have taken him for free.

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I like this view. Kinda like a lesser version of the d'agostini trade.
Or O'Byrne for Bournival

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07-15-2011, 10:33 PM
  #122
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The thing is many of these trades don't work in Montreal's favor. Mitera has potential as you claim but how many of these young assets have been let go too hastily and Montreal has nothing to show for it. Sergei Kostityn was given for free practically. He may have been a cancer but the kid has become one of the Preds best players. Montreal has nothing. Streit was another. Robidas and Beauchemin were lost through waivers. The team learned their lesson here at least. Ribeiro was given for free because he was a cancer. And so was Latendresse and on top of that Pouliot is gone too for free. Montreal should at least try to improve the team. If Anaheim bought, Montreal could of added a piece or two and get a proven NHL player. I hope Carle doesn't turn into another of those players mentioned above. Well for Mitera, my hopes are not too high. The team will let him walk once his contract is done and that is the problem.

The list goes on. Maxwell was traded for Sopel and Dawes. Dawes and Sopel are not coming back. Lapierre was traded for Festerling and Festerling was given for Mcyntire. Bye bye Mcytinre. Last season, Montreal lost Lapierre and Maxwell for nothing.
Dude those trades were not for nothing. Sopel was a regular D-man for us vs Boston and was part of a team that came within an overtime goal of knocking off the eventual champs. Did you watch the games? Do you remember Sopel? He was much needed help on the blueline. This is the NHL the game is to win. Not to mention the fact that keeping players who want out is bad karma....we used to do that all the time and it never led to anything good. It's important to move players that want out....keep the circulation flowing.

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07-16-2011, 01:09 AM
  #123
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Let's look at it from a different angle. Carle was going to need to pass through waivers, so the team could have lost him for nothing. Given that, he wasn't worth a draft pick. He was indeed a 'problem' for Montreal. Why not deal him for a player who, at the very least, will be a solid citizen on the AHL team, and who may develop into an asset? The alternative is to potentially lose Carle for free. How could you dislike such a move?
Everyone has seen my post a page or so ago. I totally agree with this perspective; especially given that we're talking about a borderline prospect in the first place.

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I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying. I don't think it applies in this instance, though. It's clear that Carle isn't making the team, and that he would be placed on waivers. It's equally evident that the Ducks had interest in him, hence the trade. Logical conclusion is that the Ducks would claim Carle.
I think we differ in terms of philosophy a lot of the time, but on this issue, I think you're batting 1.000.

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07-16-2011, 01:40 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by parachutist View Post
Some 2006 scouting reports from RLR:


I love to read Red Line Report though I take it with a grain of salt. He was a guy who thought Andrei Kostitsyn was most talented player in the 2003 draft and noted how courageous and determined he is. He also had a huge crush on Ryan McDonagh in 2007 IIRC.

source url: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...fensemen_x.htm
wow, reading that report on Carle makes all his injury "bad luck" seem a lot more understandable... not only does not being in top physical condition make your far more susceptible to injury, it also means longer recovery times, and if he wasn't dedicated to training when healthy, he probably wasn't very dedicated to his rehab either.

i'm surprised the habs picked him as high as they did with those kinds of reports swirling around, and I wonder how much of a factor it's been on their more recent drafts (putting a premium on players committed/dedicated to being true "professionals"...)

on the flip side, the exact opposite qualities used to describe Mitera make me that much more optimistic that he'll put it all together with us and turn into a useful player at some point down the road.

could Mitera be another Gorges? i sure hope so!

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07-16-2011, 02:00 AM
  #125
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Another frenchie bite the dust.

I have the feeling management never really liked Carle. He should been given more chances with the big club if they had.


Last edited by Kimota: 07-16-2011 at 09:53 PM.
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