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Nazem Kadri for Kyle Turris?

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Old
07-17-2011, 08:52 PM
  #401
belair
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Originally Posted by Kylie Sven Opossum View Post
I do. But then I'm a Leafs fan.
So that means you're used to being disappointed.

















Sorry, had to.

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Old
07-17-2011, 08:58 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Adversary View Post
Is this suggesting that Kadri is/will be better than those players?

I hope that's not what you're suggesting
Originally Posted by Interactif
The definitive measure of a player is how they produce in the playoffs, for comparison here the 7 highest fwds drafted from the OHL since the draft year 2008, the majority of the players are already proven stars in the NHL, the stats don't lie, in particular the points per game average from their final OHL playoff year they played. Nazem Kadri had the highest PPG ratio of all of these picks by .41 points a game.

1. Nazem Kadri 12G 9g 18a 27p 2.25 PPG
2. Taylor Hall 19G 17g 18a 35p 1.84 PPG
3. Jeff Skinner 20G 20g 13a 33p 1.65 PPG
4. John Tavares14G 10g 11a 21p 1.50 PPG
5. Matt Duchene 21 14 12 26 1.24 PPG
6. Steve Stamkos 9G 11g 0a 11P 1.22 PPG
7. Tyler Seguin 9G 5g 5a 10p 1.11 PPG

you can not look at these numbers because of a few things

1) which year was this: their Second, Third or Fourth year in the OHL. Skinner, Duchene, Seguin, Stamkos all second year. Hall third year, Tavares and Kadri Fourth year.

2) How good was the team they were playing on?

3) how was their plus/minus in that year or were they just getting points on the PP or were they getting the points 5 on 5.

Kadri is not as good as any of the players you mention above. He will not make any team better until he learns How to play defense and learns to pass the puck to his team mates.

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07-17-2011, 08:59 PM
  #403
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Should be done by now -- so close -- i don't understand it. These sources are impeccable!

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Old
07-17-2011, 09:01 PM
  #404
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if Kadri is traded for Turris, I won't be a Leafs fan anymore because i'd loose all my faith in the current management.

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Old
07-19-2011, 12:00 AM
  #405
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it's soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo close

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07-19-2011, 12:01 AM
  #406
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it's this close...

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Old
07-19-2011, 12:27 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by LMFAO View Post
if Kadri is traded for Turris, I won't be a Leafs fan anymore because i'd loose all my faith in the current management.
Come on. You know you'd forgive them in about a minute.

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Old
07-19-2011, 12:42 AM
  #408
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Old
07-19-2011, 12:49 AM
  #409
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Practically faxing it in as we speak

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Old
07-19-2011, 01:07 AM
  #410
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meh...lateral move at best. Could go either way. If they both pan out would rather have the center. But I would probably hold on to Kadri if I am Toronto, if nothing else because he is a year plus younger and hasn't gotten a change to show his stuff yet. Who knows, you might have a 60 pt winger at some point. I just don't like Kadri's overall hockey sense. He is more flash and dash in spurts kinda player and not even the complete offensive package even in one denominational kind of way. Think of a smaller Tomas Jurco with a bit more playmaking. I think he would do better on a team with better players on a wing with better center.

In terms of potential I see Turris as the smarter player who would be more significantly contribute if they both reach their full potential. In Toronto he would probably get more duties and responsibility and might have a chance to thrive. BUT he has had 2 back to back disappointing seasons for such a high pick, even though I always though he was one of the more unproven top 3 picks in a long time since he did his domination in lower league than the CHL. Yeah, I know the whole college eligibility thing and so on, and he looked good in the WJC afterwards but still.


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Old
07-19-2011, 01:30 AM
  #411
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I'd be mad if I was a leafs fan and this deal went through

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Old
07-19-2011, 01:41 AM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick3652 View Post
1. Nazem Kadri 12G 9g 18a 27p 2.25 PPG
2. Taylor Hall 19G 17g 18a 35p 1.84 PPG
3. Jeff Skinner 20G 20g 13a 33p 1.65 PPG
4. John Tavares14G 10g 11a 21p 1.50 PPG
5. Matt Duchene 21 14 12 26 1.24 PPG
6. Steve Stamkos 9G 11g 0a 11P 1.22 PPG
7. Tyler Seguin 9G 5g 5a 10p 1.11 PPG

Loose

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Old
07-19-2011, 06:28 AM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick3652 View Post
Originally Posted by Interactif
The definitive measure of a player is how they produce in the playoffs, for comparison here the 7 highest fwds drafted from the OHL since the draft year 2008, the majority of the players are already proven stars in the NHL, the stats don't lie, in particular the points per game average from their final OHL playoff year they played. Nazem Kadri had the highest PPG ratio of all of these picks by .41 points a game.

1. Nazem Kadri 12G 9g 18a 27p 2.25 PPG Last year of junior
2. Taylor Hall 19G 17g 18a 35p 1.84 PPG
3. Jeff Skinner 20G 20g 13a 33p 1.65 PPG
4. John Tavares14G 10g 11a 21p 1.50 PPG Kadri 2nd last year 1.50 PPG
4a Nazem Kadri 3rd last year 1.30 PPG
5. Matt Duchene 21 14 12 26 1.24 PPG
6. Steve Stamkos 9G 11g 0a 11P 1.22 PPG
7. Tyler Seguin 9G 5g 5a 10p 1.11 PPG

you can not look at these numbers because of a few things

1) which year was this: their Second, Third or Fourth year in the OHL. Skinner, Duchene, Seguin, Stamkos all second year. Hall third year, Tavares and Kadri Fourth year.

2) How good was the team they were playing on?

3) how was their plus/minus in that year or were they just getting points on the PP or were they getting the points 5 on 5.

Kadri is not as good as any of the players you mention above. He will not make any team better until he learns How to play defense and learns to pass the puck to his team mates.
Kadri's last 3 years of Junior he scored 1.30, 1,50, 2.25 PPG in the playoffs of the OHL players all drafted #7 and lower. I posted this in the thread but strangely it is always missed. Plug any of those years production on that list and he is still no worst than 4th.

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Old
07-19-2011, 07:00 AM
  #414
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The trade doesn't make much sense for either team. As a Leafs fan I would keep Kadri but Turris is still a really good prospect.

All that being said. The hate for Kadri on HF boards is bordering on pathetic.

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Old
07-19-2011, 07:46 AM
  #415
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Will go down soon -- these guys are never wrong. Eklund just needs to call Burke and give him the ok.

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Old
07-19-2011, 08:05 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Rymistri View Post
The trade doesn't make much sense for either team. As a Leafs fan I would keep Kadri but Turris is still a really good prospect.

All that being said. The hate for Kadri on HF boards is bordering on pathetic.
Its not so much hate as it is some fans belief that Kadri will not be a superstar. Some Leaf fans believe he will be just that, while some of us (myself included) think he'll be a tier below that. I see him topping out as a very useful 2nd line winger who can pot 60 - 65 points. However imo he will only be that effective if Burke manages to get legit 1st line talent to play with Kessel.

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07-19-2011, 08:12 AM
  #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Kadri's last 3 years of Junior he scored 1.30, 1,50, 2.25 PPG in the playoffs of the OHL players all drafted #7 and lower. I posted this in the thread but strangely it is always missed. Plug any of those years production on that list and he is still no worst than 4th.
So if I understand you correctly, what you are concluding from your OHL Playoff stats analysis is that Kadri will be a better player than Duchene, Stamkos, Seguin and Taveres...and on par with Skinner and Hall?

Is that what you are saying?

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Old
07-19-2011, 08:14 AM
  #418
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Originally Posted by DwightKSchrute View Post
Loose
Tight.

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Old
07-19-2011, 08:32 AM
  #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
So if I understand you correctly, what you are concluding from your OHL Playoff stats analysis is that Kadri will be a better player than Duchene, Stamkos, Seguin and Taveres...and on par with Skinner and Hall?

Is that what you are saying?
He's better than the consensus bashing he gets here, you can read whatever you want from the numbers, I post them for everyone to decide for themselves. But I ask you, he must be fluke to put up numbers like this 3 straight years right?

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Old
07-19-2011, 08:34 AM
  #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaner89 View Post
I wouldnt do it if i were the Leafs

Kadri had better AHL and NHL numbers.

Both have big season to prove them selves.
Where are you getting your numbers?

I don't see this happening for either team.

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Old
07-19-2011, 08:49 AM
  #421
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
He's better than the consensus bashing he gets here, you can read whatever you want from the numbers, I post them for everyone to decide for themselves. But I ask you, he must be fluke to put up numbers like this 3 straight years right?
You posted the numbers, so you must have drawn your own conclusion. I'm just asking you to come out and state what it is so that we don't mis-interpret it. Your initial statement started out with:

Quote:
The definitive measure of a player is how they produce in the playoffs
So I am just trying to make sure I clearly understand your point and what you are trying to say. Yes or no, are you saying that Kadri will a better than Duchene, Stamkos, Seguin and Taveres?

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Old
07-19-2011, 09:18 AM
  #422
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Can't we just let this bs rumour and cluster**** of a thread die already?

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Old
07-19-2011, 09:26 AM
  #423
Interactif
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
You posted the numbers, so you must have drawn your own conclusion. I'm just asking you to come out and state what it is so that we don't mis-interpret it. Your initial statement started out with:



So I am just trying to make sure I clearly understand your point and what you are trying to say. Yes or no, are you saying that Kadri will a better than Duchene, Stamkos, Seguin and Taveres?
You got all that from a post that basically stated, a player that has a history of producing in the playoffs that is comparable to players drafted from the same junior league from 1-7? It is clear why I posted the numbers, do you really need an explanation?

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Old
07-19-2011, 09:28 AM
  #424
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Originally Posted by rick3652 View Post
He will not make any team better until he learns How to play defense and learns to pass the puck to his team mates.
it's true his defensive play was the reason he was sent down to the marlies at the beginning of the season. however, if you actually watched him play, once he was called back up his play was much improved. he was making smart plays and limiting his turnovers. if anything this kid has shown he's coachable, willing to do whatever it takes to make the NHL and he's not the defensive liabilty everyone around here wishes he was.

the bolded part is just flat out idiotic. kadri is a pass first type player and the reputation he has around here as a pug hog is absolutely hillarious. just goes to show you don't even watch the player but act like you have the entire scouting report on him. kadri set up some nice goals in hi short 30 game rookie season, one that just popped into my head was a slick no look pass to macarthur near the end of the season. i could probably dig up a few more on youtube too, if i cared enough. his passing along with his stickhandling are easily his strong points. thanks for coming out though.

this season can't start soon enough.

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Old
07-19-2011, 09:52 AM
  #425
Boom Boom Anton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You got all that from a post that basically stated, a player that has a history of producing in the playoffs that is comparable to players drafted from the same junior league from 1-7? It is clear why I posted the numbers, do you really need an explanation?
In other words, you are ok with inuendos, vague references and cherry picking stats, but unwilling to come out and actually make a definitive statement about these players. I can see why, it would take a set of balls to come out and say Kadri will be as good of an NHL player as these guys so it's easier to make vague references.

Whatever....no big deal.

FWIW, I think looking at OHL playoff stats is a very flawed way of comparing prospects. The sample size, age, team-mates, huge variation in the level of play in the OHL, etc... can have a dramatic impact. A player can dominate in the OHL and even dominate in the AHL, and never make a good pro (and visa versa).

IMO, Stamkos and Hall will be the two best players out of the 7 you listed and will stand out from all the others. I don't think Kadri (or the other players listed) will be in the same ballpark as those two when all is said and done.

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