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Old
07-16-2011, 02:55 AM
  #26
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
well I'm a Habs fan, I expect more than "a bit much"


Carey Price didn't play up to par in the playoffs, hence JM claiming that he hopes that Peter ****ing Budaj can play 20 games.

Price hasn't reached his peak yet was my point, I think he can improve massively.
If by not up to par, you mean he didn't Halak our team, then yes. 1 or 2 goals were soft imo, but overall he bailed our ***** a bunch of times. He did look tired though, so I'm happy with Budaj playing a quarter of the games or so.

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Old
07-16-2011, 03:00 AM
  #27
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No mention of adding Blunden?

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Old
07-16-2011, 04:34 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
ok Jaques, I hope this means you will put them in positions to succeed, give them ice time/opportunity to earn more and not continue to hold them to higher standards than the veterans on the team...
yeah, hope he's going to lower his standards, that would be a much guaranteed recipe for success.....

media : well, Jacques, we didnt see any progress from DD, PK and Eller in their second season, how do you explain that ?
JM : well, according to our standards they had a terrific season, they even exceeded expectations...
media : sorry Jacques, but they were all less productive this season, compared to last
JM : again, like I said, they all played up to our standards...

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Old
07-16-2011, 04:48 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
In resume, he says that:
I don't know why, but this anglicisme bothers me more than most. It's "in summary", not "in resume". No biggie though. I'll just hit a bowl here and it'll all be forgotten.

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Old
07-16-2011, 05:05 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
ok Jaques, I hope this means you will put them in positions to succeed, give them ice time/opportunity to earn more and not continue to hold them to higher standards than the veterans on the team...
Martin gives the rookies and young players very soft minutes and easy assignments to shelter them as they start out their careers and shields them from mistakes by keeping them of the ice when they're having bad games. That's very much a strategy of putting your young guys in a position to succeed. Setting players up for failure is like the Carboneau strategy of putting untried youngsters in important positions right to start.

Desharnais, Weber and White looked very good in their rookie years largely by virtue of being feed easy minutes to soften the transition to the NHL game for example. Give Desharnais Gomez's job like some people were clamoring for and he'd get killed against second line players. Play on a line with Plekanec and you have to be a shutdown player and an offensive contributor, which is why only veterans got that job.


Once guys like Pacioretty and Subban proved they were for real by dominating lower level players they got serious responsiblities. Which is what top-2 forward line or defensive pairings are, responsiblities, as they need to face the best the other team has to offer. Neither Eller, Desharnais nor Pouliot were dominant against bottom-six players, why would upping their competition be a good idea?

Detriot and New Jersey have been the very model of player developement and they do it largely the same way.


And if your talking about benching after penalties taken, guys like Eller and Pouliot deserved to be benched for that while everyone's favorite whipping boy Gomez was infrequently penalized. Hamrlik took a lot of penalties but he was way too important to bench.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...-young-players

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Old
07-16-2011, 07:11 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Martin gives the rookies and young players very soft minutes and easy assignments to shelter them as they start out their careers and shields them from mistakes by keeping them of the ice when they're having bad games. That's very much a strategy of putting your young guys in a position to succeed. Setting players up for failure is like the Carboneau strategy of putting untried youngsters in important positions right to start.

Desharnais, Weber and White looked very good in their rookie years largely by virtue of being feed easy minutes to soften the transition to the NHL game for example. Give Desharnais Gomez's job like some people were clamoring for and he'd get killed against second line players. Play on a line with Plekanec and you have to be a shutdown player and an offensive contributor, which is why only veterans got that job.


Once guys like Pacioretty and Subban proved they were for real by dominating lower level players they got serious responsiblities. Which is what top-2 forward line or defensive pairings are, responsiblities, as they need to face the best the other team has to offer. Neither Eller, Desharnais nor Pouliot were dominant against bottom-six players, why would upping their competition be a good idea?

Detriot and New Jersey have been the very model of player developement and they do it largely the same way.


And if your talking about benching after penalties taken, guys like Eller and Pouliot deserved to be benched for that while everyone's favorite whipping boy Gomez was infrequently penalized. Hamrlik took a lot of penalties but he was way too important to bench.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...-young-players
Is this your blog? Cause if so get HF to sponsor you. I never knew but this guy writes good stuff.

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Old
07-16-2011, 08:22 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I don't know why, but this anglicisme bothers me more than most. It's "in summary", not "in resume". No biggie though. I'll just hit a bowl here and it'll all be forgotten.
Dude, it's a francicism.

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Old
07-16-2011, 08:43 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
ok Jaques, I hope this means you will put them in positions to succeed, give them ice time/opportunity to earn more and not continue to hold them to higher standards than the veterans on the team...
I think they are in a position to earn more ice time and they'll get it when they deserve it. I really don't think Subban and Pacs were complaining about the way they were used last year, were they?

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Old
07-16-2011, 08:47 AM
  #34
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Price didn't bail our **** in the playoffs in the least. He was solid for the first two games and it was mostly all downhill from there with the exception of game 6 I think it was. Other than that, if you were impressed than good for you. I wasn't. But yeah Price is always perfect and never has a bad game bla bla bla.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
yeah, hope he's going to lower his standards, that would be a much guaranteed recipe for success.....

media : well, Jacques, we didnt see any progress from DD, PK and Eller in their second season, how do you explain that ?
JM : well, according to our standards they had a terrific season, they even exceeded expectations...
media : sorry Jacques, but they were all less productive this season, compared to last
JM : again, like I said, they all played up to our standards...
JM can have any standards he wants for the players... he can think what he wants.. it won't change the players.

That said, if he screws them over by thinking rookies should be better than vets and not giving them any chances then they will have a hard time improving and showing what they can do.

You also knew that was the point he was making when you made that terrible dishonest post too.

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Old
07-16-2011, 08:50 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Price has hit his ceiling and won't improve anymore?
Sometimes you are impossible! You must enjoy being a cynical contrarian, or what may be vulgarly termed a ball-breaker. Of all the "youngsters," Price is clearly the most advanced on his personal learning curve. In the playoffs Price held his own against the Conn Smythe and Vezina winner better than Roloson, Bobby, or Luongo. That doesn't preclude further improvement but the logical inference from what Martin said is that the other young Habs are farther from their own peaks, whatever they may be.

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Old
07-16-2011, 09:09 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
Dude, it's a francicism.
...grammar Nazis both of ya!

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Old
07-16-2011, 09:20 AM
  #37
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Martin always seems to say the right things...unlike some coaches that throw their players under the bus with a microphone in their face....( some guy in TO could learn a thing or two )

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Old
07-16-2011, 09:32 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I don't know why, but this anglicisme bothers me more than most. It's "in summary", not "in resume". No biggie though. I'll just hit a bowl here and it'll all be forgotten.
Please remember.....I'm francophone. Give me a break. Doing my best.

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Old
07-16-2011, 09:54 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Price didn't bail our **** in the playoffs in the least. He was solid for the first two games and it was mostly all downhill from there with the exception of game 6 I think it was. Other than that, if you were impressed than good for you. I wasn't. But yeah Price is always perfect and never has a bad game bla bla bla.
So Carey looked good in his three wins? No way! Anyhow, Price wasn't the reason the Habs lost.


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Old
07-16-2011, 09:56 AM
  #40
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So Carey looked din his three wins? No way! Anyhow, Price wasn't the reason the Habs lost.
wat

(See you on the plane, lulz)

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Old
07-16-2011, 10:43 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post



And if your talking about benching after penalties taken, guys like Eller and Pouliot deserved to be benched for that while everyone's favorite whipping boy Gomez was infrequently penalized. Hamrlik took a lot of penalties but he was way too important to bench.
funny, Subban (even after the benching) continued to be one of the most penalized players (minor penalties) in the league... yet his ice time kept going up and up as the season got deeper and the games got "more important"...

you argue that Hamrlik was too "important to bench"... i suppose my argument is that Gomez was "not important enough" not to "bench", or at least hold to the same high standards younger players were.

Eller, DD, Weber, Pouliot, White... they never really got a chance (until the season was on the line in Eller/DD's case) to show how important to the teams success they could be, b/c every time they hit the ice they did so with a short leash and a choke chain, strangling out the confidence needed to play up to their full potential.

some players manage to keep their chins up and play through the kind of yo-yoing Martin put them through, others falter.

i simply think a coach best serves his team when he helps his players succeed rather than acts as an obstacle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
I think they are in a position to earn more ice time and they'll get it when they deserve it. I really don't think Subban and Pacs were complaining about the way they were used last year, were they?
sorry but i call b.s.

Subban may not have said so publicly, b/c he's got a solid head on his shoulders, but I'm positive he wasn't thanking Martin for unfairly benching him.

MaxPac publicly complained about his treatment the previous year... pouliot grumbled publicly...

young players didn't get the ice time they "deserved" unless Martin had no other choice (do to injuries, or to self-preservation when the season was on the line), that's a poor way of managing a team imo.

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Old
07-16-2011, 10:50 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Price has hit his ceiling and won't improve anymore?
If we get a similar year from Price will you be upset?

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Old
07-16-2011, 11:05 AM
  #43
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It's nice to hear JM speak but I'll take it as the usual lip service. He didn't mention the loss of Wiz who I think was a very important piece. And I'm still unclear why he was acquired. Was it because Gorges went down? Was it to replace Markov's offensive production or a combination thereof?

Anyway I guess I view the end of the season D roster as having three d-men who were very capable of putting points on the board in Wiz, Hamrlik and Subban. Now it's down to two in Markov and Subban with a bunch of question marks. Weber contributed offensively as a forward although I think he definitely could contribute more from the blueline. I'm anxious to see Emelin more than anything else.

The fact that Hamrlik was offered a contract tells me something else was on the minds of management. The blueline, although a bit younger, is not deep in talent. Nor is it in Hamilton. Overall it will be interesting to see who plays with whom and if Spacek can rebound. I don't have the confidence in this group to handle significant injuries which scares me a bit given the history. Hopefully the law of averages works in the Habs favor in that they used up their "injury allotment" on D the past few years.

Speaking of injuries while the addition of Erik Cole is nice he also makes me nervous given his age and history. Having Pacioretty back IMO will be a greater addition and I'm anxious to see if his game remains the same after his injury. I like White but he is nothing notable as far as an "addition".

I liked Dominic Moore but had no problems with his replacement from last year in Jeff Halpern who was the Habs faceoff leader. The Habs were in the lower half of the league in faceoff percentage as it was and now no longer have Halpern or Pyatt who were the teams' faceoff leaders.

I don't see any significant plus in the backup goaltending situation in fact it could be worse if the newbie is the headcase that some claim he is. IDK that Montreal is the place for headcases. LOL Price had a great season last year and will have to repeat that injury free performance for the team to move upward.

In summary while the team made some changes there is nothing significant to take the team to the next level while other teams (Washington, Buffalo, NYR) made themselves significantly better.

While the injuries on D have been devastating the last couple of years the injuries on other fronts (goaltending, forwards) haven't been near as critical. Hopefully all injuries will be minimized but with the JM style of play coupled with the lack of overall toughness and the injury proneness of some players I'm not confident that will be the case.

There's money left on the table and JM's lip service didn't answer why it's still there.

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Old
07-16-2011, 11:18 AM
  #44
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wow I'm speechless , I never thought Martin could come up with that kind of provocative statements.What's impressive is the fact he truly revealed a little part of his deep thoughts about the team and players , and it's refreshing to see things from the eyes of a professionnal coach , how he can see things we clearly don't.

no


Well played.

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Old
07-16-2011, 11:40 AM
  #45
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wat

(See you on the plane, lulz)
Yeah, I can't type.

(Yes, see you later.)

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Old
07-16-2011, 12:09 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Please remember.....I'm francophone. Give me a break. Doing my best.
I'll give you a break, and every french poster here, a break every time. Your posts are interesting and you love the Habs. That's all that matters. And, your English is pretty damn good. Better than my French, that's for sure.

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07-16-2011, 12:48 PM
  #47
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Of course he's full of cliché statements.

Do you expect him to come out and say that he's pissed off at Gauthier for losing Hamrlik and Wisniewski? That he would rather have Gomez in Hamilton?

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Old
07-16-2011, 12:58 PM
  #48
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Jacques Martin hockey is not only boring but it's also ineffective. With Pierre Gauthier, Jacques Martin and Trevor Timmins at the helm, the Montreal Canadiens have become the Montreal Senators and they are going nowhere. As soon as the going gets tough our small, easily intimidated players disappear.


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Old
07-16-2011, 01:05 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
It's nice to hear JM speak but I'll take it as the usual lip service. He didn't mention the loss of Wiz who I think was a very important piece. And I'm still unclear why he was acquired. Was it because Gorges went down? Was it to replace Markov's offensive production or a combination thereof?

Anyway I guess I view the end of the season D roster as having three d-men who were very capable of putting points on the board in Wiz, Hamrlik and Subban. Now it's down to two in Markov and Subban with a bunch of question marks. Weber contributed offensively as a forward although I think he definitely could contribute more from the blueline. I'm anxious to see Emelin more than anything else.

The fact that Hamrlik was offered a contract tells me something else was on the minds of management. The blueline, although a bit younger, is not deep in talent. Nor is it in Hamilton. Overall it will be interesting to see who plays with whom and if Spacek can rebound. I don't have the confidence in this group to handle significant injuries which scares me a bit given the history. Hopefully the law of averages works in the Habs favor in that they used up their "injury allotment" on D the past few years.

Speaking of injuries while the addition of Erik Cole is nice he also makes me nervous given his age and history. Having Pacioretty back IMO will be a greater addition and I'm anxious to see if his game remains the same after his injury. I like White but he is nothing notable as far as an "addition".

I liked Dominic Moore but had no problems with his replacement from last year in Jeff Halpern who was the Habs faceoff leader. The Habs were in the lower half of the league in faceoff percentage as it was and now no longer have Halpern or Pyatt who were the teams' faceoff leaders.

I don't see any significant plus in the backup goaltending situation in fact it could be worse if the newbie is the headcase that some claim he is. IDK that Montreal is the place for headcases. LOL Price had a great season last year and will have to repeat that injury free performance for the team to move upward.

In summary while the team made some changes there is nothing significant to take the team to the next level while other teams (Washington, Buffalo, NYR) made themselves significantly better.

While the injuries on D have been devastating the last couple of years the injuries on other fronts (goaltending, forwards) haven't been near as critical. Hopefully all injuries will be minimized but with the JM style of play coupled with the lack of overall toughness and the injury proneness of some players I'm not confident that will be the case.

There's money left on the table and JM's lip service didn't answer why it's still there.
I've taken notice of the improvements in those other teams and would include Toronto, New Jersey, and Florida in the mix. However, I'd say the Habs are stronger than they were last season despite the loss of certain players.

Having Markov and Gorges back will more than offset the loss of Hamrlik. You may be pleasantly surprised by what (Y)Emelin adds to the blue line in size, mobility, shot, and hitting. Possibly offsetting those assets (at least for a while) are his unfamiliarity with the NHL and a tendency to overdo the rough play. Offhand, I'd say he's better than Wisniewski, who has a few weaknesses of his own.


Last edited by Teufelsdreck: 07-16-2011 at 01:13 PM.
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Old
07-16-2011, 01:08 PM
  #50
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And I'm still unclear why he was acquired.











he was acquired to make the playoffs....silly PG.

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