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Old
07-16-2011, 02:23 PM
  #51
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Is this your blog? Cause if so get HF to sponsor you. I never knew but this guy writes good stuff.
I'm a contributing writer on EOTP. They graciously put me up there when I've got an article to publish.

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07-16-2011, 02:26 PM
  #52
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There's one thing I love about JM: whenever he speaks about his players or even players from other teams, he knows exactly what they bring to the ice. He seems to study this game a lot compared to what we used to hear Carbo.
I think martin is a master at answering questions without answering them. It fits the mould of the current management perfectly.

What I've never heard martin do in a public setting is criticize individual players. The media must miss having guys like tremblay and therien around because you aren't going to get any quotes out of martin.

I believe in martin's formula, so its just a question of when the players stop listening to him, because it happens to every coach eventually. Until then, I have no issues with our head coaching.

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07-16-2011, 02:46 PM
  #53
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funny, Subban (even after the benching) continued to be one of the most penalized players (minor penalties) in the league... yet his ice time kept going up and up as the season got deeper and the games got "more important"...

you argue that Hamrlik was too "important to bench"... i suppose my argument is that Gomez was "not important enough" not to "bench", or at least hold to the same high standards younger players were.

Eller, DD, Weber, Pouliot, White... they never really got a chance (until the season was on the line in Eller/DD's case) to show how important to the teams success they could be, b/c every time they hit the ice they did so with a short leash and a choke chain, strangling out the confidence needed to play up to their full potential.

some players manage to keep their chins up and play through the kind of yo-yoing Martin put them through, others falter.

i simply think a coach best serves his team when he helps his players succeed rather than acts as an obstacle.
Look at the article. Gomez rarely takes penalties. People think he takes bad ones but he's actually very discipline. Subban plays with fire on penalties but he draws so many that his heavy penalization is tolerable.

Eller, DD, Weber, Pouliot and White had a short leash but they also got the benefit of soft minutes to adjust to the NHL. The guys most frequently benched for penalties were Eller and Pouliot. They deserved it being some of the heaviest penalty takers per minute in the league. They don't have Subban's excuse of drawing almost as many penalties to compensate either so the bench was warranted.

DD, Weber and White didn't dominate their easy assignments so significant responsibilities were not warranted and they can stay at the bottom of the lineup were they can learn while having their heads above water rather than tossing them into the deep end.

As for it effecting their confidence, well that's your opinion not fact. I'll say that in teaching building confidence while doing something wrong is a good way to build bad habits that don't get fixed.

Martin gave his young players the best chance to succeed, assignments within their capabilities. Giving them more is bad for the team and not good for their confidance either.

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07-16-2011, 02:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Martin gave his young players the best chance to succeed, assignments within their capabilities. Giving them more is bad for the team and not good for their confidance either.
My belief, and it is what it is, is that Martin has a plan to which everybody has to follow. Other coaches, while they also have a plan, are giving the benefit of the doubt to their players and prefer to work on their strenght before addressing the weaknesses. With Martin, you are an offensive player, well you'd have to improve your offensive numbers WHILE you learn playing MY way.

I'll just go back to the Lats example. Lats was not an hitting machine in Juniors. Geez, he'd avoid hits. Then, in the NHL, he HAD to "finish his checks". Unfortunately for him, he was not suited for a Martin type of game 'cause he had that problem of being trapped in a big body while wanting to play a finesse game. Just like Pouliot had to do when it was not working. To the point of taking bad penalties...I mean, first day in Minny, Lats coach asked him "What are your strenghts". Something Lats was thrilled to hear. Which means that he was never asked that question in here. Which, to me, makes no sense. Add the fact that he was NEVER really tested in an offensive role (despite the great proofs by some people in here who will mention the 3 games in 1 preseason or the stint he had before Higgins came back, mentioning he had only scored 1 goal.....but failing to mention he was almost 1PPG....), and you have the bad recipe of something that was called to fail. Again, Lats as some responsability. Just like SKost and others. But I believe Martin does as well. This Habs team had the strenght of being good and young....to which we went to pretty old on the back end, and not as young as we could have been up front. I know, you need your vets....but you also need a friendly cap. And being young and great will do just that.

I will always believe that Martin works great with youngsters who ALREADY play a Martin type of hockey. But they need to understand that not everybody has that maturity. And while it's not a kindergarden, seems to me that while it shouldn't be a majority of players, having babies around could pay off BIG TIME....

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Old
07-16-2011, 03:01 PM
  #55
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jacques martin is the best coach we ve had in a long time.he brings stability and accountability.we now have excellent balance thru the lineup and when you couple that with a solid defensive system,,you will contend for a championship.

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07-16-2011, 03:02 PM
  #56
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Apparently Coach Martin wanted to get Cole even back in the Ottawa days. Budaj had one great season, not sure about more breaks for Price.

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07-16-2011, 03:10 PM
  #57
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Did he mention taking on the Penguin role in the next Batman movie?

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07-16-2011, 05:03 PM
  #58
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Did he mention taking on the Penguin role in the next Batman movie?
He looks the part but he lacks a droll sense of humor that would nail the role.

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07-16-2011, 05:08 PM
  #59
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He looks the part but he lacks a droll sense of humor that would nail the role.
You'd think with all the cuties on this Island, that some girl would teach him how to dress.

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07-16-2011, 06:04 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Did he mention taking on the Penguin role in the next Batman movie?
Well played, I actually Lol'd at this.

I didn't see anything out of the ordinary for a Martin interview right there.

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07-16-2011, 08:34 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by rocketlives View Post
Jacques Martin hockey is not only boring but it's also ineffective. With Pierre Gauthier, Jacques Martin and Trevor Timmins at the helm, the Montreal Canadiens have become the Montreal Senators and they are going nowhere. As soon as the going gets tough our small, easily intimidated players disappear.
SO what more do you expect if Martin is handed small, easily intimidated players? Do you think anyone can turn them into Tasmanian devils or Alaskan brown bears? Be fair. He did the best he could with what he had: ECF finals oneyear, 7-game series decided by an OT goal by the SC winners? Would you have liked Therrien or Carbonneau in his pllace? Please excuse me while I retreat to the smallest room in my house to let a loud, resounding noise out of my rear exhaust pipe. Pity it can't be transmitted electronically in my post!

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07-16-2011, 09:14 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Price didn't bail our **** in the playoffs in the least. He was solid for the first two games and it was mostly all downhill from there with the exception of game 6 I think it was. Other than that, if you were impressed than good for you. I wasn't. But yeah Price is always perfect and never has a bad game bla bla bla.



JM can have any standards he wants for the players... he can think what he wants.. it won't change the players.

That said, if he screws them over by thinking rookies should be better than vets and not giving them any chances then they will have a hard time improving and showing what they can do.

You also knew that was the point he was making when you made that terrible dishonest post too.
He was good in game 7 too. Don't forget once Boston was up 3-2, he held us in big time.

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07-16-2011, 10:36 PM
  #63
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He was good in game 7 too. Don't forget once Boston was up 3-2, he held us in big time.
yeah,I didnt really question price at all in the playoffs. I only seem to remember one real soft goal but I was satisfied with his overall playoff performance.

Despite the fact that the habs lost this series, I thought it was Carey's best in his career thus far from the standpoint of consistency, and his whole season in general makes me very confident about going with price for the future.

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07-17-2011, 12:08 AM
  #64
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Price hasn't reached his peak yet was my point, I think he can improve massively.



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Sometimes you are impossible! You must enjoy being a cynical contrarian, or what may be vulgarly termed a ball-breaker.
So I'm a ball breaker because I think he can do better in the playoffs than not making it past the first round?


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Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
If we get a similar year from Price will you be upset?
Actually, I think Price will have a set back year in terms of the regular season but I expect him to step up in the playoffs and dominate when it matters. I don't think its realistic to expect him to have another year like he did this past year and also expect him to do well in the playoffs.

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07-17-2011, 12:22 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
So I'm a ball breaker because I think he can do better in the playoffs than not making it past the first round?




Actually, I think Price will have a set back year in terms of the regular season but I expect him to step up in the playoffs and dominate when it matters. I don't think its realistic to expect him to have another year like he did this past year and also expect him to do well in the playoffs.
lol @ this post, like someone said earlier, can carey score overtime winners?


and i doubt price has MUCH of a setback, considering how many wins he got without our top D pairing, without patches half the year and so on, and still ties luongo for league lead despite luongo being on the president trophy winning team........

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07-17-2011, 12:36 AM
  #66
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and i doubt price has MUCH of a setback,
so you think he will have a set back then, just not a big one?

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07-17-2011, 01:39 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
so you think he will have a set back then, just not a big one?
poor choice of words on my part, poor state of mind on yours.

i beleive carey to be in the vezina discussion for the next 7 years

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07-17-2011, 03:36 AM
  #68
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JM can have any standards he wants for the players... he can think what he wants.. it won't change the players.

That said, if he screws them over by thinking rookies should be better than vets and not giving them any chances then they will have a hard time improving and showing what they can do.

You also knew that was the point he was making when you made that terrible dishonest post too.
Sure it's dishonest if what you think is the first bolded part... but it's not.

Wether we like how JM handles the youngsters or not, fact is most of them improved over the course of the year... and expecting them to keep improving is anything but dishonest...

besides, no one (including JM) will ask Eller or Pacc to be PPG players on their 2nd year, or PK/Weber to be Norris nominees... nor it will be asked of White to beat-up Chara or something...

but asking White to polish his defensive game while he keeps being agressive ? sounds fair to me.

or PK to play a more disciplined game while being a high energy player ? sounds good too

or Weber to keep adjusting defensively despite his small frame ? Weber himself probably wish that too...

or Eller to improve on the face-off while rounding up his overall game ? nothing wrong with that


the other guys, like Gomez, Gionta, Gill and co are 10 years vets or so... there's so much improvement that can be asked of them... but Eller ? Pacc ? PK ? Weber ? White ? they 21/22 years old kid... there's PLENTY of room for improvement in their case (no matter how good they are NOW)... so, asking more of them (improvement), is only logical...


If you think that's dishonest, really...

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07-17-2011, 09:14 AM
  #69
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poor choice of words on my part, poor state of mind on yours.

i beleive carey to be in the vezina discussion for the next 7 years
You guys are getting the impression that I think Carey Price sucks or something when I haven't said anything close to resemblying that. I wouldn't trade him heads up for any goalie in the league, that is how highly I think of him.

I just think he was slightly fatigued in the playoffs. I think he is capable of stealing one of games 3, 4 or 7 and winning the series.

I also think last year was a career type year. I'm confident that he can beat it, I just don't think it will be next year. That doesn't mean that I don't think he will have a very good year, I just think the Habs will rest him more this year so he isn't as fatigued for the playoffs. Which means, he won't tie for the league wins probably if they stay true to their word.

If he has a 65 gp, 35w 9.22 2.45 year, technically that is a step back than this year, but still pretty damm good.

Carey Price was a beast last year during the regular season and expecting him to better himself, I think is also false expectations. He is capable of it, but to better it, is something very hard to do.

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07-17-2011, 09:40 AM
  #70
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You guys are getting the impression that I think Carey Price sucks or something when I haven't said anything close to resemblying that. I wouldn't trade him heads up for any goalie in the league, that is how highly I think of him.

I just think he was slightly fatigued in the playoffs. I think he is capable of stealing one of games 3, 4 or 7 and winning the series.

I also think last year was a career type year. I'm confident that he can beat it, I just don't think it will be next year. That doesn't mean that I don't think he will have a very good year, I just think the Habs will rest him more this year so he isn't as fatigued for the playoffs. Which means, he won't tie for the league wins probably if they stay true to their word.

If he has a 65 gp, 35w 9.22 2.45 year, technically that is a step back than this year, but still pretty damm good.

Carey Price was a beast last year during the regular season and expecting him to better himself, I think is also false expectations. He is capable of it, but to better it, is something very hard to do.
Though I think he will bring it....what's the difference between guys we say can't bring it during the playoffs and a guy like Carey Price? We have seen some talented players that are not able to bring it in due time. Could it be the case for Price? Being able to perform in due time is not solely about the talent we know he possess. The thing is the answer to that is we don't know......yet. We surely think and hope he will. But he might not. And fatigue, well if it is a reason, that's why they decided to go with Budaj who, they think, will be able to take more games. But we can use it eternally. If they don't give him too many games, it's their evaluation that is the problem or the fact that Carey won't talk about his fatigue level.

We all think he will though. I know I do. But there is a possibility out there he's not going to.

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07-17-2011, 09:43 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Sure it's dishonest if what you think is the first bolded part... but it's not.

Wether we like how JM handles the youngsters or not, fact is most of them improved over the course of the year... and expecting them to keep improving is anything but dishonest...

besides, no one (including JM) will ask Eller or Pacc to be PPG players on their 2nd year, or PK/Weber to be Norris nominees... nor it will be asked of White to beat-up Chara or something...

but asking White to polish his defensive game while he keeps being agressive ? sounds fair to me.

or PK to play a more disciplined game while being a high energy player ? sounds good too

or Weber to keep adjusting defensively despite his small frame ? Weber himself probably wish that too...

or Eller to improve on the face-off while rounding up his overall game ? nothing wrong with that


the other guys, like Gomez, Gionta, Gill and co are 10 years vets or so... there's so much improvement that can be asked of them... but Eller ? Pacc ? PK ? Weber ? White ? they 21/22 years old kid... there's PLENTY of room for improvement in their case (no matter how good they are NOW)... so, asking more of them (improvement), is only logical...


If you think that's dishonest, really...

it's far more logical for a coach to "ask" a veteran player to play up to his already established potential, and hold him accountable when he doesn't, than it is to hold a rookie/young player to a greater level of expectation, without giving them an "honest" chance.

if anything, the young player/rookie's inconsistency should be more tolerable than that of a "10-year vet", especially in the regular season.

conversly, come playoff/crunch time, the leash on the young player should get tighter, and the veteran looser, not the other way around.

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07-17-2011, 09:58 AM
  #72
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If they don't give him too many games, it's their evaluation that is the problem or the fact that Carey won't talk about his fatigue level.
He talked about fatigue in like January in an article in the Gazette. I had it bookmarked but my laptop died.

He said that all players get fatigued and that down the road he would need to take more time to rest and "practice". He talked about the need to do the little things in practice to have the proper focus. But we see, down the stretch, he never did take off games to get more focus in practice.

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07-17-2011, 10:10 AM
  #73
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it's far more logical for a coach to "ask" a veteran player to play up to his already established potential, and hold him accountable when he doesn't, than it is to hold a rookie/young player to a greater level of expectation, without giving them an "honest" chance.

if anything, the young player/rookie's inconsistency should be more tolerable than that of a "10-year vet", especially in the regular season.

conversly, come playoff/crunch time, the leash on the young player should get tighter, and the veteran looser, not the other way around.
Thank you for posting that. That's exactly my point. You saved me some time writing a post I didn't want to write. It's an age old argument people never agree on anyway.

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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
He talked about fatigue in like January in an article in the Gazette. I had it bookmarked but my laptop died.

He said that all players get fatigued and that down the road he would need to take more time to rest and "practice". He talked about the need to do the little things in practice to have the proper focus. But we see, down the stretch, he never did take off games to get more focus in practice.
I agree with you. Price's play wasn't the same in game 3 to 7 than it was earlier in the year. I also agree that there's a good chance it might have been fatigue.

I'd like to see him play 62-65 games, if Budaj can relieve him more than Auld could then good.

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07-17-2011, 01:22 PM
  #74
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So I'm a ball breaker because I think he can do better in the playoffs than not making it past the first round?




Actually, I think Price will have a set back year in terms of the regular season but I expect him to step up in the playoffs and dominate when it matters. I don't think its realistic to expect him to have another year like he did this past year and also expect him to do well in the playoffs.
More twists and turns than a mountain road.

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07-17-2011, 03:41 PM
  #75
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it's far more logical for a coach to "ask" a veteran player to play up to his already established potential, and hold him accountable when he doesn't, than it is to hold a rookie/young player to a greater level of expectation, without giving them an "honest" chance.

if anything, the young player/rookie's inconsistency should be more tolerable than that of a "10-year vet", especially in the regular season.

conversly, come playoff/crunch time, the leash on the young player should get tighter, and the veteran looser, not the other way around.
if by accountability you mean taking actions such as benching, scratching, etc... you cant really (has to be very rare exceptions)... cause by doing so you'd have to change what was planned for the youngsters too...

I mean, at 10/15 games, we had Gomez playing like ****, what was JM supposed to do, give Eller 2nd line duties ?? come on, at the time the kid barely looked like a NHLer... or call up DD and have him go straight from AHL to 2nd line C in the NHL ?? be serious for a sec. here...



While you think that (and it looks like the logical move - looks like), JM did the opposite and the kids did a'right... so, maybe that's not the way to go for everybody...

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