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Charlie Coyle and Jason Zucker

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Old
07-16-2011, 10:12 PM
  #26
TaLoN
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It definitely shows some of the potential if they can make the team down the road, and if the Wild are able to fill the gaps left by current vets due to inevitible turnover.

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07-17-2011, 12:16 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
Actually, there's a chance that Coyle could play on the RW with Phillips as his center and the team rolls with 3 scoring lines and an energy line down the road.

Top line could still be: PMB - Koivu - Heatley
Second line could be: Lats - Granlund - Setoguchi (the size and physicality on Granlund's wings would benefit him greatly!)
Third line: Zucker - Phillips - Coyle
Energy line: Gillies - Brodziak - Clutterbuck
These lines actually get me too excited. I feel like if our prospects pan on out we definitely have a team built for the future

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07-17-2011, 01:15 AM
  #28
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Still hard to project either one to the NHL. Everyone knows that Zucker's been ahead of the curve as a 17-19 year old, but will he have the same success in pro hockey? It remains to be seen. Size and upside were the reasons he slipped from a fringe 1st round pick to a fringe 2nd round pick. I don't dislike Jason Zucker, he was a good pick and all, but I just don't see him being an elite player at the NHL level. I don't see him scoring 30 goals in an NHL season.

Coyle on the other hand was somewhat behind the curve playing in the EJHL(a league that produced 3 draft picks since 2006). However, its hard to not notice the unique skill-set that Charlie Coyle brings to the table. NHL size, speed, skill, strength, and that's a guy one year removed from the EJHL, which is completely unheard of. Who knows how much better he can become with a couple more years of quality coaching and training.

I'd take Coyle by quite a large margin. IMO you re-do the 2010 draft, Coyle jumps up more spots than Zucker, and he was picked 30 spots higher to begin with.

I'm no expert, but it seems to me, that if this kid, who is the same size as parise, put up similiar numbers to parise - he has a real shot at the big time. now that being said, i watched him a lot in the wcha, and coyle not at all. I jsut dont get this size thing. he's 5'11"

if there's something that i'm missing, that's one thing.




disclaimer: I'm not saying zucker = parise.

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07-17-2011, 10:54 AM
  #29
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It's just the role they play. Parise is a sniper, shooter, goal scorer, or however you want to call it. Always has been. Zucker has more of a two-way forward or grinder tag to him. He is more than just a goal scorer. Obviously in college he is lighting it up, but i think people see him in the NHL playing a more well rounded game. He will still produce offense but he will also play that defensive side too. I see him as a more offensively developed Cal Clutterbuck. Not as physical, but more production.

A good example of this is Mikko Koivu. Koivu is included in a short list of #1 centers in the NHL. He is a great player but he plays a two-way game which in my opinion takes away from his point production. Not in a negative way because obviously preventing goals is as important as scoring them, but we all have said and can see Koivu is perfectly capable of putting up more than 70 points in a season. Yes linemates play a factor too, but even with Brunette and Mittens Koivu could do more offensively. He could easily put more focus on offense, not play on the pk, and be putting up 80+ points.


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Old
07-17-2011, 11:50 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
Actually, there's a chance that Coyle could play on the RW with Phillips as his center and the team rolls with 3 scoring lines and an energy line down the road.

Top line could still be: PMB - Koivu - Heatley
Second line could be: Lats - Granlund - Setoguchi (the size and physicality on Granlund's wings would benefit him greatly!)
Third line: Zucker - Phillips - Coyle
Energy line: Gillies - Brodziak - Clutterbuck

Coyle is better suited at center, but then you have the luxury of Phillips being able take draws too.

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07-18-2011, 10:47 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
I say Charlie Coyle... Power forwards are a hard find, and can be an absolute force in the NHL.
I agree. Zucker is very fast and aggressive and likes to shoot but he is very small - both short and thin. I am not saying you have to be big to play in the NHL and of course there are many good small players BUT it's a harder row to hoe.

Coyle has a very big frame. He's a good skater, appears to have good hands, vison, and hockey sense. When he fills out he could truly become a Power Forward in the NHL, which is a very valuable commodity.

On the other hand, Zucker could turn into a Kessel-type player, and dynamic goal scorers are a very valuable commodity, too.

But if I was given the choice, I'd keep Coyle over Zucker.

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07-18-2011, 11:01 AM
  #32
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IMO Zucker's games compares favorably to a TJ Oshie and I would love to have a guy like that on the team.

Zucker is faster but IMO Oshie is a much more physcial, hard-nosed player. Oshie plays much, MUCH bigger than his actual size. Zucker is an aggressive player and not afraid, but he's not the kind of physical force Oshie is IMO.

I've seen Zucker up close a couple times this year and he looks smaller and much lighter than Oshie. Oshie is older and not a big guy, but to me he's clearly stronger and more physical.

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Old
07-18-2011, 11:03 AM
  #33
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I'd say Zucker only needs to add about 10 pounds or so, he's pretty close. Listed 5'10 175-ish.

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07-18-2011, 03:39 PM
  #34
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I'd say Zucker only needs to add about 10 pounds or so, he's pretty close. Listed 5'10 175-ish.
Is that what was on the Wild's roster at the Scrimmages?

NHL.com has both Oshie and Parise listed at 5' 11" and 195 lbs, but if you put them side by side Oshie looks "bigger". Anyone who's seen them both play and paid attention would easily have seen that Oshie plays a much, much more physical, "bigger" game than Parise. Actual size does not neccesarily define how physical a player is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to dis Zucker, I'd love to see him make the Wild in any capacity - as a fast third line energy guy or a speed burner goal scorer on a top line, but IMO he's far less physical than Oshie and FAR less talented than Parise. Zucker is a fast kid who's not afraid to run into people, but he does it with far less force and is not as "mean" as Oshie. As far as overall talent, he's nowhere near Parise when it comes to controlling a game.

Parise is way more skilled than Zucker. He stick handles, passes, scores - he can control the game from the wing. Zucker is a speed bruner running up and down the wing. You can claim their sizes are similar, but they're vastly different players IMO. Zucker doesn't have the high end skill of a Parise or the all around banging, physcial game of Oshie. He also looks a lot smaller to me than Oshie - maybe not much shorter, but I think he is by an inch or two. But I am positive Zucker is quite a bit thinner and lighter than Oshie, and not by only 10 lbs, in addition to the fact that Oshie is a very aggressive, physical guy who plays way bigger than his size.

And I'm not basing that on Ht Wt charts, which are often nonsense, but on my personal observation of Parise and Oshie over several years and seeing Zucker up close a couple of times this year.

Sorry for droning on so long....

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07-18-2011, 03:54 PM
  #35
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Some have it as 174, others 177, 175 seems like a nice middle ground. I'm not comparing him physically to Oshie or Parise...just that 185 at 5'10 is built enough for a skilled NHL forward. That would be heavier than PMB for instance.

For Zucker, his role is pretty well defined: use his speed and great shot to score goals, or to make some room for his teammates. Come back and help out in your end and work to break the puck out.

I'm not concerned with how physical he will or won't be...not really his game. He's not going to be a power forward or agitator like Oshie can be...just use speed and skill to score goals.

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07-18-2011, 05:11 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
Is that what was on the Wild's roster at the Scrimmages?

NHL.com has both Oshie and Parise listed at 5' 11" and 195 lbs, but if you put them side by side Oshie looks "bigger". Anyone who's seen them both play and paid attention would easily have seen that Oshie plays a much, much more physical, "bigger" game than Parise. Actual size does not neccesarily define how physical a player is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to dis Zucker, I'd love to see him make the Wild in any capacity - as a fast third line energy guy or a speed burner goal scorer on a top line, but IMO he's far less physical than Oshie and FAR less talented than Parise. Zucker is a fast kid who's not afraid to run into people, but he does it with far less force and is not as "mean" as Oshie. As far as overall talent, he's nowhere near Parise when it comes to controlling a game.

Parise is way more skilled than Zucker. He stick handles, passes, scores - he can control the game from the wing. Zucker is a speed bruner running up and down the wing. You can claim their sizes are similar, but they're vastly different players IMO. Zucker doesn't have the high end skill of a Parise or the all around banging, physcial game of Oshie. He also looks a lot smaller to me than Oshie - maybe not much shorter, but I think he is by an inch or two. But I am positive Zucker is quite a bit thinner and lighter than Oshie, and not by only 10 lbs, in addition to the fact that Oshie is a very aggressive, physical guy who plays way bigger than his size.

And I'm not basing that on Ht Wt charts, which are often nonsense, but on my personal observation of Parise and Oshie over several years and seeing Zucker up close a couple of times this year.

Sorry for droning on so long....
The Wild gave it out as 5'11" 174 lbs this weekend.

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Old
07-18-2011, 07:26 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post

For Zucker, his role is pretty well defined: use his speed and great shot to score goals, or to make some room for his teammates. Come back and help out in your end and work to break the puck out.

.
We're 100% in agreement on this! Next year I'm going to make it a point to get Denver tickets when they play at The Ralph. I don't have season tickets but I know several people who do if there's any problem getting tickets, which I don't anticipate. I'll be one of the very few people happy to see Zucker burn through the Sioux D without getting decapitated, which is a good chance, and score a goal!

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07-19-2011, 01:58 PM
  #38
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Watchin PArise alot in college, he was not pegged as true goal socrer by many. He out worked out huslted and out thought his competion.

Parise's second worse goal out put as a pro was his year in the AHL. His worst his first year in the NHL. Had that AHL been a NHL year i doubt he would have broke 10 goals that year. He was able to rethink the game and figure out how to expolit the NHL like he could every other league.

The question is; Does Zucker posses that type of mental aspect to his game to make what he has work at the next level. If he has that make up, i see him very easily translating into a goal scorer. Parise is special. Even at a lesser clip a consistant 20 goal guy is hard to find. We had one last year.

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07-19-2011, 08:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
Watchin PArise alot in college, he was not pegged as true goal socrer by many. He out worked out huslted and out thought his competion.

Parise's second worse goal out put as a pro was his year in the AHL. His worst his first year in the NHL. Had that AHL been a NHL year i doubt he would have broke 10 goals that year. He was able to rethink the game and figure out how to expolit the NHL like he could every other league.

The question is; Does Zucker posses that type of mental aspect to his game to make what he has work at the next level. If he has that make up, i see him very easily translating into a goal scorer. Parise is special. Even at a lesser clip a consistant 20 goal guy is hard to find. We had one last year.
Not to knock everyone, but 20 goals leaguewide isn't exactly a benchmark number. It can be done, just not by anyone in a Minnesota uniform apparently.

He'll get chances to score 20 just based off his speed alone, and how he uses it.

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07-20-2011, 11:44 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by firstroundbust View Post
He'll get chances to score 20 just based off his speed alone, and how he uses it.
Antti Laaksonen was super fast - I'd say bigger and faster than Zucker. Didn't he play for Denver, too? He scored how many goals a year on average for the Wild?

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07-21-2011, 01:04 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
Antti Laaksonen was super fast - I'd say bigger and faster than Zucker. Didn't he play for Denver, too? He scored how many goals a year on average for the Wild?
Laaksonen played mostly pre-lockout trap. Now the game is faster and faster every day.

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07-21-2011, 08:24 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
Antti Laaksonen was super fast - I'd say bigger and faster than Zucker. Didn't he play for Denver, too? He scored how many goals a year on average for the Wild?
Stupid comparison.

That's like comparing Jeff Taffe and Neal Broten.....they both went to Minnesota, right?

Speed and where they went to school is about the ONLY thing Laaksonen and Zucker have in common....

Laaksonen's freshman season: 12 g 9 a.
Zucker's freshman season: 23 g 22 a

Enough said.

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07-21-2011, 11:00 PM
  #43
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On the other hand, Zucker could turn into a Kessel-type player, and dynamic goal scorers are a very valuable commodity, too.
So you're saying he'll get up to a 30 goal scorer, then we'll trade him to the Leafs and get 3 top-5 picks out of it!? While winning the Cup in the 3rd year!!???


I like that idea

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