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Semin to Detroit is now an E4

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Old
07-17-2011, 11:20 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Yemack View Post
isnt his case for every trade propsal? good job doing generalization. I tell you Hawks fans are just as 'ridiculous' as you claim around here. In fact, every team has those fans. IMO, you just sound bitter towards Wings fans.

Stop insulting fan base and start adding to discussion. If you have anything to add.
Bolded: Hypocrisy is a wonderful thing.

I've already added plenty, but you didn't read my previous posts. These teams make bad trading partners.

Also, I'm not bitter. I apologize for using "Wings fans" generally, because it's not all of you. It was a poor choice of words. Let's move on.

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07-17-2011, 11:20 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
I love people who have short term memory. Franzen has been injured twice. Last year and this years playoffs. He is injury prone folks. He is really old too and it's pretty obvious his body is breaking down at the age of 31.

Next year the salary cap will go up even more and that 3.95 million dollar cap hit will look even better. I was obviously referring to cap hit since the Wings arent poor and can afford to give players big salaries.
1) Right now with the Tigers losing money annually, Salary very well may be relevant to Illitch. You don't own the team, you don't know how much he is willing to spend.

2) He also has concussion problems.

3) He has only been on pace to score more than 60 points three times, with him peaking at a 68 point pace. The other times he was barley 61 and 63.

4)If you take away his game 5 outburst in SJ, he has 4 goals in his past 20 playoff games, and a whole lot of secondary assists. Selective memory is making you think he was a lot better than what he was. If you take away Semin's one bad playoff series, his stats are comparable to Franzen, and were put up at a age when Franzen relatively wasn't even in the NHL.

If Semin could be signed for 5.5-6.2 mil somewhat long term, Franzen is expendable, it really isn't even a debate. Semin is a better player now on both sides of the rink and is still getting better. Franzen may very well be one or two hits to the head or knee from being out of the NHL. I like the guy, and would prefer to see him gone, but if you would pass up the opportunity if Semin could be had long term, you are a fool. In 3-4 years Franzen's worth will not hold a candle to Semin's. Think of the long term here people.


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07-17-2011, 11:21 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
Did you just start watching the Red Wings? He misses large chunks of time every year due to injury. Especially in the playoffs. He almost always has an injury after round 2.
And yet his production is always fantastic. He might be injured but it doesnt show. Minus the most recent playoffs.
7
18
23
18
8

70-80 games a season is pretty healthy to me.

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07-17-2011, 11:23 AM
  #179
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I would give up Franzen + for Semin in a heartbeat. Just saying.

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07-17-2011, 11:24 AM
  #180
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Right, and Datsyuk to Washignton is E10! I can't believe people still care about what Eklund has to say!

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07-17-2011, 11:26 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
And yet his production is always fantastic. He might be injured but it doesnt show. Minus the most recent playoffs.
7
18
23
18
8

70-80 games a season is pretty healthy to me.
i wouldnt trade franzen for semin as they are essentially the same thing
- goal scoring sniper
- injury prone=bound to miss at least 10-15 regular season games a year

the difference is franzen is bigger and more physical and his cap hit is about half semin's.

while semin would be a huge addition to our top 4 forwards, i think we need franzen's size and somewhat physical play much more then we need semins youth(4 years younger).

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07-17-2011, 11:26 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
Right, and Datsyuk to Washignton is E10! I can't believe people still care about what Eklund has to say!
That's a really funny joke. How on earth did you ever come up with it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
i wouldnt trade franzen for semin as they are essentially the same thing
- goal scoring sniper
- injury prone=bound to miss at least 10-15 regular season games a year

the difference is franzen is bigger and more physical and his cap hit is about half semin's.

while semin would be a huge addition to our top 4 forwards, i think we need franzen's size and somewhat physical play much more then we need semins youth(4 years younger).

I'd sacrifice that whole inch and 10lbs for a good 20 more points a year in the regular season, better defensive play (if you honestly think Franzen still plays better defense then Semin you need to watch them more), and 3-5 more years of productivity when the Wing's will be through a transition process but that's just me. In 2-3 years, when Datsyuk and Zetterberg are aging, and our young guys like Jarncrok and Tatar havn't fully hit their prime yet, who do you want to carry the load? A near 35 year old injury riddled Franzen, or a 30-31 year old Semin who is still potting 40 a season?


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07-17-2011, 11:28 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by EZBAKE View Post
1) Right now with the Tigers losing money annually, Salary very well may be relevant to Illitch. You don't own the team, you don't know how much he is willing to spend.

2) He also has concussion problems.

3) he has only been on pace to score more than 60 points twice, both times just barely.

4)If you take away his game 5 outburst in SJ, he has 4 goals in his past 20 playoff games, and a whole lot of secondary assists. Selective memory is making you think he was a lot better than what he was. If you take away Semin's one bad playoff series, his stats are comparable to Franzen, and were put up at a age when Franzen relatively wasn't even in the NHL.

If Semin could be signed for 5.5-6.2 mil somewhat long term, Franzen is expendable, it really isn't even a debate. Semin is a better player now on both sides of the rink and is still getting better.
I see you like to make up scenarios to prop up your argument. Has Ilitch hinted once that money was an issue?

Now he has concussion problems? How many games total has he missed from concussions? He has had concussions though. I view concussion problems as reoccurring symptoms that dont go away.

PLAYOFF PERFORMANCE. Franzen 08-09 23 points total. Semin total points in the playoffs (four seasons) 30 points

Semin is very good but I wouldnt trade for Franzen. his cap hit isnt even a problem. Where as Semin is going to ask for 6 million+ again IF the Wings can even sign him.

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07-17-2011, 11:29 AM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
And yet his production is always fantastic. He might be injured but it doesnt show. Minus the most recent playoffs.
7
18
23
18
8

70-80 games a season is pretty healthy to me.
You said he has only been injured twice and I proved you wrong. I am not sure what your trying to debate here.

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07-17-2011, 11:33 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
You said he has only been injured twice and I proved you wrong. I am not sure what your trying to debate here.
Everyone is injured in the playoffs or not 100%. You deal with it and Franzen played 100%.

You didnt prove anything wrong. You make it seem like he is always injured and sitting in the press box.

Injured by my definition is not playing.

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07-17-2011, 11:36 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
I see you like to make up scenarios to prop up your argument. Has Ilitch hinted once that money was an issue?

Now he has concussion problems? How many games total has he missed from concussions? He has had concussions though. I view concussion problems as reoccurring symptoms that dont go away.

PLAYOFF PERFORMANCE. Franzen 08-09 23 points total. Semin total points in the playoffs (four seasons) 30 points

Semin is very good but I wouldnt trade for Franzen. his cap hit isnt even a problem. Where as Semin is going to ask for 6 million+ again IF the Wings can even sign him.



So I guess stating the FACT that you do not know whether or not money is an issue is making an assumption. That's like assuming since you didn't die in a car crash, and haven't before, it won't ever happen so you can drive with your eyes closed.

Franzen had 23 points in 22 games that year. This is indeed true. Semin had 28 points in 30 games that I selectively chose. See how that works there? You're not even comparing a good sample size.

In 4-5 years, who do you want on this team to help transition an aging Datsyuk and Zetterberg to the green and not yet ready Jarncrok/Tatar, a 35 year old injury plagued Franzen, or a prime aged Semin who is still potting 40 goals a season? Do you honestly think that in 3-4 years Franzen's value will hold a candle to Semin's? Are you really that much of a homer?

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07-17-2011, 11:40 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by EZBAKE View Post



So I guess stating the FACT that you do not know whether or not money is an issue is making an assumption. That's like assuming since you didn't die in a car crash, and haven't before, it won't ever happen so you can drive with your eyes closed.

Franzen had 23 points in 22 games that year. This is indeed true. Semin had 28 points in 30 games that I selectively chose. See how that works there? You're not even comparing a good sample size.

In 4-5 years, who do you want on this team to help transition an aging Datsyuk and Zetterberg to the green and not yet ready Jarncrok/Tatar, a 35 year old injury plagued Franzen, or a prime aged Semin who is still potting 40 goals a season?
Semin has had one 40 goal season. He sure is potting them away. I picked Semins entire playoff career to try and make it a tad more fair for Semin.

You bring up an issue that has never been an issue and try to play it off like there is some truth behind it. Please just stop with the rumors you make up.

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07-17-2011, 11:46 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Flip/Hudler/Draft pick or Flip/Hudler/prospect. IS more than enough payment for a potential one year rental. Ken Holland isn't a total moron like most GM's are.
Again, it's not more than enough for this potential one year rental. For a rebuilding club? Maybe. But the Caps aren't giving up their second best goal-scorer, who's also an excellent PKer and a good defensive player for a defensive center and third line finesse winger.

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07-17-2011, 11:47 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Semin has had one 40 goal season. He sure is potting them away. I picked Semins entire playoff career to try and make it a tad more fair for Semin.

You bring up an issue that has never been an issue and try to play it off like there is some truth behind it. Please just stop with the rumors you make up.
1) By that logic Franzen has one 30 goal season dumbass. Semin has been on pace for 3 40 seasons, with his other two having him easily on pace for 35. Considering last season was the equivalent of Franzen's first 20 goal season, I dare say we can expect him to keep it up for the remainder of his prime.

2) Considering involving Semin's entire Career actually hurt him in that aspect, you either are horrible at math, or horrible at reasoning, judging by your posts most probably both.

3) I never once stated a rumor. I simply stated the FACT that you do not know that money will never be an issue in the following decade. Illitch may very well die and his wife may sell the team to a more fickle owner. He may decide to shore up some money since the Tiger's are bleeding it. All I am saying is you are not some omnipotent god as you seem to think and have no idea the Red Wing's financial situation. And before you go with an ad homenism assault and try to apply that to signing Semin long term, I never once said it wouldnt. I am simply stating that you are acting as if you can predict the ****ing future. Sorry I'm not lying to you and saying what you want to hear. Illitch will live to be a 100 years old, and is not concerned about one of his other team's losing money horribly. Both could be real possibilities, but they can just as easily as not.


Now are you going to keep on ignoring what I said about 4-5 years in the future, or are you still going to pretend like Franzen and Semin will still be comparable at that time?

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07-17-2011, 11:51 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by EZBAKE View Post
1) By that logic Franzen has one 30 goal season dumbass. Semin has been on pace for 3 40 seasons, with his other two having him easily on pace for 35.

2) Considering involving Semin's entire Career actually hurt him in that aspect, you either are horrible at math, or horrible at reasoning, judging by your posts most probably both.

3) I never once stated a rumor. I simply stated the FACT that you do not know that money will never be an issue in the following decade. Illitch may very well die and his wife may sell the team to a more fickle owner. He may decide to shore up some money since the Tiger's are bleeding it. All I am saying is you are not some omnipotent god as you seem to think and have no idea the Red Wing's financial situation. And before you go with an ad homenism assault and try to apply that to signing Semin long term, I never once said it wouldnt. I am simply stating that you are acting as if you can predict the ****ing future.


Now are you going to keep on ignoring what I said about 4-5 years in the future, or are you still going to pretend like Franzen and Semin will still be comparable at that time?
1. I never mentioned that Franzen was a 30 goal scorer. Next time learn to read.

2. I didnt use games played just total points. 23 points in one playoff vs 30 points in four playoffs.

3. You did not state any facts. Just opinions that you try to pawn off like facts because you think you are super duper smart. Like most of your posts. OHHH soo money will now suddenly be an issue even though it has never been an issue. I like your logic. where there is no smoke and its raining there must be a fire.

You sure do love the future. You seem to be good at predicting everything. Future salary caps, future player production.

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07-17-2011, 11:52 AM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Everyone is injured in the playoffs or not 100%. You deal with it and Franzen played 100%.

You didnt prove anything wrong. You make it seem like he is always injured and sitting in the press box.

Injured by my definition is not playing.
How did I not prove it? Did you not see my edit 30 seconds after I posted?

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07-17-2011, 11:53 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
i wouldnt trade franzen for semin as they are essentially the same thing
- goal scoring sniper
- injury prone=bound to miss at least 10-15 regular season games a year

the difference is franzen is bigger and more physical and his cap hit is about half semin's.

while semin would be a huge addition to our top 4 forwards, i think we need franzen's size and somewhat physical play much more then we need semins youth(4 years younger).
You touch on a few points as to why the Caps shouldn't and wouldn't do a Semin-Franzen swap. Though Franzen is signed at a relatively low cap hit, it is until he's 40. He's had his share of injuries, with the severity of which varying.

The age is probably the key contributing factor. Semin's essentially 4.5/5 years younger than Franzen, and he's entering his prime. He is more offensively productive and he's more than adequate defensively.

Strictly my opinion, but I always felt that if Semin was coached properly his flaws could be ironed out and as it stands I don't think he has been.

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07-17-2011, 11:56 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
2. I didnt use games played just total points. 23 points in one playoff vs 30 points in four playoffs.
Dude, those four playoffs equate to 37 games. 30 ****ing points in 37 games. He hasn't had the luxury of being on a team that goes on a long Cup run like Franzen. He also hasn't played with MULTIPLE teammates who step their game up like Franzen has.

GTFO with this crap already. Semin > Franzen AINERC.

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07-17-2011, 11:58 AM
  #194
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Eklund threads bring out the best angry posts

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07-17-2011, 11:59 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
1. I never mentioned that Franzen was a 30 goal scorer. Next time learn to read.

2. I didnt use games played just total points. 23 points in one playoff vs 30 points in four playoffs.

3. You did not state any facts. Just opinions that you try to pawn off like facts because you think you are super duper smart. Like most of your posts. OHHH soo money will now suddenly be an issue even though it has never been an issue. I like your logic. where there is no smoke and its raining there must be a fire.

You sure do love the future. You seem to be good at predicting everything. Future salary caps, future player production.
1) Well seeing as you applied that Semin had only one 40 goal season, that same logic should be applied right?

2) Learn to read about the prediction thing. Seriously. I was stating that you were doing the exact same thing you were attacking me of.

3) You're still ignoring whether or not Semin at 6 mil a year will be worth more than Franzen at 4 in 5 years. Franzen very well may not be injured and keep his pace and be worth that contract, but he easily cannot. If you honestly don't make the trade for a more sure thing you have horrible risk management skills and I PRAY you never get a job in which involves derision making for the future.

I'm done here though, you are just ignoring my arguments and restating what you said as if you have the reading comprehension of a 5 year old with down syndrome. You continually make claims and then fail to apply the same logic when it hurts your arguments, as well as rely on attacking the poster instead of the logic. It seriously makes me depressed that people like you are allowed to vote. I bet you wonder why you are poor.


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07-17-2011, 11:59 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Lovin Ovenchicken View Post
Dude, those four playoffs equate to 37 games. 30 ****ing points in 37 games. He hasn't had the luxury of being on a team that goes on a long Cup run like Franzen. He also hasn't played with MULTIPLE teammates who step their game up like Franzen has.

GTFO with this crap already. Semin > Franzen AINERC.
Whatever you say Mr. Caps fan. Its pretty close actually 3.94 million per year cap hit vs 6.2 million per year cap hit. Franzen steps up in the playoffs. It's why he is so valuable.

Semin is better though by not by as much as some people like to claim.

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07-17-2011, 12:00 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by EZBAKE View Post
1) Well seeing as you applied that Semin had only one 40 goal season, that same logic should be applied right?

2) Learn to read about the prediction thing. Seriously.

3) You're still ignoring whether or not Semin at 6 mil a year will be worth more than Franzen at 4 in 5 years. Franzen very well may not be injured and keep his pace and be worth that contract, but he easily cannot. If you honestly don't make the trade for a more sure thing you have horrible risk management skills and I PRAY you never get a job in which involves derision making for the future.

I'm done here though, you are just ignoring my arguments and restating what you said as if you have the reading comprehension of a 5 year old with down syndrome. You continually make claims and then fail to apply the same logic when it hurts your arguments, as well as rely on attacking the poster instead of the logic. It seriously makes me depressed that people like you are allowed to vote.
What a hilariously ironic post.

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07-17-2011, 12:02 PM
  #198
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You touch on a few points as to why the Caps shouldn't and wouldn't do a Semin-Franzen swap. Though Franzen is signed at a relatively low cap hit, it is until he's 40. He's had his share of injuries, with the severity of which varying.

The age is probably the key contributing factor. Semin's essentially 4.5/5 years younger than Franzen, and he's entering his prime. He is more offensively productive and he's more than adequate defensively.

Strictly my opinion, but I always felt that if Semin was coached properly his flaws could be ironed out and as it stands I don't think he has been.
But that goes against the notion that Franzen in 5 years will be worth more than Semin! But... but... THE WINGS ARE THE BEST! This can't be true. See, I backed it up with a lot of reasoning. The Wings are still the best right? And that means since I'm a fan of them, I'm the best right? Yes! I am superior, I am superior, I have a huge inferiority compl.... whoops I mean, I am superior.



Quote:
Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
How did I not prove it? Did you not see my edit 30 seconds after I posted?
Just ignore this idiot. His logic only applies when it fits his argument. There is a reason everyone is making fun of him. Semin is not a 40 goal scorer since he only scored it once.


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07-17-2011, 12:23 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by EZBAKE View Post
But that goes against the notion that Franzen in 5 years will be worth more than Semin! But... but... THE WINGS ARE THE BEST! This can't be true. See, I backed it up with a lot of reasoning. The Wings are still the best right? And that means since I'm a fan of them, I'm the best right? Yes! I am superior, I am superior, I have a huge
inferiority compl.... whoops I mean, I am superior.



Just ignore this idiot. His logic only applies when it fits his argument. There is a reason everyone is making fun of him. Semin is not a 40 goal scorer since he only scored it once.
why is everyone trying to choose between Semin and Franzen? If they trade for Semin, Franzen won't be a part of the deal...so who cares we will have em both. Prospects and picks for Semin = 2 ridiculous power plays for the boys next year...get it done Kenny

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07-17-2011, 12:27 PM
  #200
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why is everyone trying to choose between Semin and Franzen? If they trade for Semin, Franzen won't be a part of the deal...so who cares we will have em both. Prospects and picks for Semin = 2 ridiculous power plays for the boys next year...get it done Kenny
What does anyone think the Caps will do prospects and picks for Semin?

THEY ARE NOT A REBUILDING TEAM.

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