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Top GMs, worst GMs, overrated GMs

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Old
08-02-2004, 02:50 PM
  #1
Vast Ant Dioi
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Top GMs, worst GMs, overrated GMs

Rank those cigar-chompers who sit in the front office and make the decisions for your team. I'm looking for top and bottom 5 GMs and a top 5 overrated GMs. Consider the obvious things like trade history and draft history, but also such things as coach selection, contract negotiations, budget they have to work with, demands of ownership, good and bad UFA signings, etc.

Top 5 GMs:

1. Lou Lamoriello
2. David Poile
3. Jay Feaster
4. Doug Wilson
5. Darryl Sutter*

* I tried not go to with the homer pick but I couldn't think of anyone I'd put ahead of him at this time, even though he still has lots to prove.

Most overrated GMs:

1. Ken Holland
2. Brian Burke
3. Pierre Lacroix
4. Larry Pleau
5. Kevin Lowe

Worst GMs:

1. John Ferguson, Jr.
2. Jeremy Jacobs (heh, I mean Mike O'Connell)
3. Brian Burke
4. Glen Sather
5. Larry Pleau

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Old
08-02-2004, 02:53 PM
  #2
LaVal
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Brian Burke isn't a GM

Pierre Lacroix just might be the most overrated GM in history.

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Old
08-02-2004, 02:55 PM
  #3
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i dont know how you can call brian burke a bad gm
when he came to vancouver this team was so freaking bad. they were in shambles. look at them now

he got jovo and auld and a few more players for bure
morrison for mogilny
sedins
salo for shaefer
malik for nothing basically



the only move he made that i hated and still hate is not re-signing trent klatt

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Old
08-02-2004, 02:55 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vast Ant Dioi
Rank those cigar-chompers who sit in the front office and make the decisions for your team. I'm looking for top and bottom 5 GMs and a top 5 overrated GMs. Consider the obvious things like trade history and draft history, but also such things as coach selection, contract negotiations, budget they have to work with, demands of ownership, good and bad UFA signings, etc.

Top 5 GMs:

1. Lou Lamoriello
2. David Poile
3. Jay Feaster
4. Doug Wilson
5. Darryl Sutter*

* I tried not go to with the homer pick but I couldn't think of anyone I'd put ahead of him at this time, even though he still has lots to prove.

Most overrated GMs:

1. Ken Holland
2. Brian Burke
3. Pierre Lacroix
4. Larry Pleau
5. Kevin Lowe

Worst GMs:

1. John Ferguson, Jr.
2. Jeremy Jacobs (heh, I mean Mike O'Connell)
3. Brian Burke
4. Glen Sather
5. Larry Pleau
Brian Burke is not a general manager anymore

I agree that he was overrated, but not one of the worst. He did do an incredible job with the Canucks financially and almost turned them into a contender.
Too bad you have to win in the playoffs to contend for the cup.

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Old
08-02-2004, 03:06 PM
  #5
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vast Ant Dioi
1. John Ferguson, Jr.
2. Jeremy Jacobs (heh, I mean Mike O'Connell)
3. Brian Burke
4. Glen Sather
5. Larry Pleau
None of those guys ever close to being as awful as Rutherford. Rutherford will go straight in the pantheon of suckiness to join folks such as Rejean Houle, Rick Dudley and Craig Button.

Brian Burke is not a GM anymore either.

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Old
08-02-2004, 03:07 PM
  #6
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- How can you label a GM with only a few months under his belt as one of the Worst GM's?
- Brain Burke, if he was still a GM, should be on the best list, not the worst.
- Pleau certainly isn't overrated as most think he sucks and he's no where near the worst. People see his payroll and the lack of playoff success when it should be blamed on a) the players not performing in the playoffs and b) owership virtually forcing him to raise the payroll when he didn't want to. His biggest weakness as a GM is his inability and/or unwillingness to untilize free agency.
- Agree with LaVal575 on PL.

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Old
08-02-2004, 03:08 PM
  #7
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I think Riser is a borderline bad GM/Worst GM:

Signing Rolston and Walz to three year contracts? Completely ****ing up the Aeros last year causing injuries all around and demoralizing them? Hardballing and causing content with players? Giving spots to aging old veterans? Trading draft picks for players that suck or aren't going to be utilized very much? Trading solid AHL players for players they aren't even going to sign? Completely ****ing up draft picks (Hannula, Brandner, Erickson, Brust, a bunch of older Euros)

Sounds like a winner to me...

 
Old
08-02-2004, 03:12 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vast Ant Dioi
Rank those cigar-chompers who sit in the front office and make the decisions for your team. I'm looking for top and bottom 5 GMs and a top 5 overrated GMs. Consider the obvious things like trade history and draft history, but also such things as coach selection, contract negotiations, budget they have to work with, demands of ownership, good and bad UFA signings, etc.

Top 5 GMs:

1. Lou Lamoriello
2. David Poile
3. Jay Feaster
4. Doug Wilson
5. Darryl Sutter*

* I tried not go to with the homer pick but I couldn't think of anyone I'd put ahead of him at this time, even though he still has lots to prove.

Most overrated GMs:

1. Ken Holland
2. Brian Burke
3. Pierre Lacroix
4. Larry Pleau
5. Kevin Lowe

Worst GMs:

1. John Ferguson, Jr.
2. Jeremy Jacobs (heh, I mean Mike O'Connell)
3. Brian Burke
4. Glen Sather
5. Larry Pleau
You say you aren't a homer but list Darryl Sutter (Calgary) as a top 5 GM and Kevin Lowe (Edmonton) and Brian Burke (Vancouver) as overrated ones.....

Anyways I don't agree John Ferguson Jr. and Brian Burke were among the ranks of the worst 5 GMs in the league. Ferguson did a good job for a relatively new face and Burke managed to take the Canucks from a non-playoff team and turn it into a freshly-new squad that underwent 5 consecutive seasons of improvement (tied with the Sharks for NHL record I believe).

I agree with Vlad. Rutherford is easily a top 5 in terms of ineffectiveness and I also think George McPhee is another solid candidate.

In terms of your best 5, I think its too soon to say for guys like Doug Wilson and Darryl Sutter and experienced GMs like Dave Taylor are still head and shoulders above them anyday imo.

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Old
08-02-2004, 03:14 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
I agree with Vlad. Rutherford is easily a top 5 in terms of ineffectiveness and I also think George McPhee is another solid candidate.

care to explain?

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Old
08-02-2004, 03:18 PM
  #10
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I don't know if Bob Gainey is one of the best or one of the most overrated. He did build a winner with Dallas, but I'm scared he's gonna try and build an identical team out of the Habs which is a complete 180 from where we were heading before he came. There would be too much roster turnover, and besides, speed and skill seems to be becoming more important relative to grit and size than five years ago.

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Old
08-02-2004, 03:28 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
You say you aren't a homer but list Darryl Sutter (Calgary) as a top 5 GM and Kevin Lowe (Edmonton) and Brian Burke (Vancouver) as overrated ones.....

In terms of your best 5, I think its too soon to say for guys like Doug Wilson and Darryl Sutter and experienced GMs like Dave Taylor are still head and shoulders above them anyday imo.
Despite my strong feelings towards the Oilers and the Canucks, I don't really extend my ideological feelings towards their GMs. I don't really "hate" either of them as you would expect from a Flames fan...I think I can evaluate management pretty objectively.

Dave Taylor would have been a solid pick, I agree. In retrospect I would put him ahead of Sutter.

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Old
08-02-2004, 03:31 PM
  #12
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I can see not liking Fergie but how John Ferguson Jr. would be the worst GM in the league is beyond me. I think people forget how bad a team the Leafs were just fifteen years ago, and that they haven't won the cup since.

(Well, no one has forgotten that they haven't won a cup since '67, but people tend to act like they had it and lost it because of the wrongdoing of individuals.)

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Old
08-02-2004, 03:33 PM
  #13
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Please explain why you think JFJ is the worst GM in the league.

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Old
08-02-2004, 03:34 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Mercury
I can see not liking Fergie but how John Ferguson Jr. would be the worst GM in the league is beyond me. I think people forget how bad a team the Leafs were just fifteen years ago, and that they haven't won the cup since.

(Well, no one has forgotten that they haven't won a cup since '67, but people tend to act like they had it and lost it because of the wrongdoing of individuals.)
Dude if you have something to do with the Leafs...you are the worst according to this board. All you can do is sit back and laugh at it all.

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Old
08-02-2004, 03:41 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vast Ant Dioi
Despite my strong feelings towards the Oilers and the Canucks, I don't really extend my ideological feelings towards their GMs. I don't really "hate" either of them as you would expect from a Flames fan...I think I can evaluate management pretty objectively.

Dave Taylor would have been a solid pick, I agree. In retrospect I would put him ahead of Sutter.
Haha dude I was kidding. I don't think you're a homer but thought it would've been fun to joke about the Flames-Oilers-Canucks rivalry with all three gms being listed. Don't worry about the homer comment - just a joke.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
care to explain?
McPhee has done nothing except squander a talented team and bargain away all its talent for "a future" as he so eloquently puts it. The Caps have been a Division champ and had the talented to easily battle Ottawa and New Jersey for the Eastern conference title with solid players and I remember just 2-3 years ago, they not only had a great offense but a formidable defense and a Vezina-winning goalie with a great prospect pool. If McPhee played his cards right he might have taken that team to the finals but made a few careless moves and now Washington is arguably the worst team in the league. 3 years ago they had Oates, Bondra, Zubrus, Konowalchuk, Simon, Dahlen, Gonchar, Johansson and Kolzig tjhat got to the finals in '97 and won back-to-back division titles in 99 and 00 and now they aren't even a fraction of their former self.

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Old
08-02-2004, 03:51 PM
  #16
Vlad The Impaler
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Best

1-Lou Lamoriello
2-Ken Holland
3-Pierre Lacroix
4-Bob Gainey
5-Bobby Clarke

Overrated

1-Dave Taylor
2-David Poile
3-Kevin Lowe
4-Don Waddell
5-Currently none, but Lombardi would have made the list if he was still there. One of the most overrated GMs I have ever seen.

Worse

1-Jim Rutherford
2-George McPhee
3-Mike Milbury
4-Glen Sather (rising on the list with each year passing but past history still huge)
5-I can't come up with a 5th because there has been lots of mouvement. (Mike Smith, Dudley) and new arrivals that look bad need a fair shake before making it. But Regier might be a good candidate out of the rest.

Underrated GMs and/or GMs on the rise

1-Darryl Sutter
2-Doug Risebrough
3-Jay Feaster

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Old
08-02-2004, 04:02 PM
  #17
Mothra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
McPhee has done nothing except squander a talented team and bargain away all its talent for "a future" as he so eloquently puts it. The Caps have been a Division champ and had the talented to easily battle Ottawa and New Jersey for the Eastern conference title with solid players and I remember just 2-3 years ago, they not only had a great offense but a formidable defense and a Vezina-winning goalie with a great prospect pool. If McPhee played his cards right he might have taken that team to the finals but made a few careless moves and now Washington is arguably the worst team in the league. 3 years ago they had Oates, Bondra, Zubrus, Konowalchuk, Simon, Dahlen, Gonchar, Johansson and Kolzig tjhat got to the finals in '97 and won back-to-back division titles in 99 and 00 and now they aren't even a fraction of their former self.
I guess we look at it differently....yes they had a good team....but that team was manily an older team....and its window passed....th pre-Jagr teams were not "great offense" teams and pretty much failed in the playoffs....4 of the players you name are either out of the NHL or nowhere near the players they were....

You also should consider the fact that they had a very high payroll that did not produce.....the Jagr trade did not work out.....but how many people thought it was a bad trade (which it wasnt) when it went down. Ownership should be blamed for last season more than GMGM.....they are the ones that abruptly closed the checkbook preventing the addition of an NHL quality blueline.....with a decent corp on the backline they would have been a playoff team last season.....but not an advancing one.....

As for his trades.....he rarely comes out on the short side.....ive seen posters use Pit as an example and how CP let all his talent go without any real returns.....time will tell if GMGM did that, but it certainly seems like at the moment he got very good return on most of his assets

I think its pretty clear that ownership did a quick aboutface with the direction of the club....and IMO GMGM did at least a decent job with that hand

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Old
08-02-2004, 04:17 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vast Ant Dioi
Rank those cigar-chompers who sit in the front office and make the decisions for your team. I'm looking for top and bottom 5 GMs and a top 5 overrated GMs. Consider the obvious things like trade history and draft history, but also such things as coach selection, contract negotiations, budget they have to work with, demands of ownership, good and bad UFA signings, etc.

Top 5 GMs:

1. Lou Lamoriello
2. David Poile
3. Jay Feaster
4. Doug Wilson
5. Darryl Sutter*

* I tried not go to with the homer pick but I couldn't think of anyone I'd put ahead of him at this time, even though he still has lots to prove.

Most overrated GMs:

1. Ken Holland
2. Brian Burke
3. Pierre Lacroix
4. Larry Pleau
5. Kevin Lowe

Worst GMs:
1a. Mike Milbury
1. John Ferguson, Jr.
2. Jeremy Jacobs (heh, I mean Mike O'Connell)
3. Brian Burke
4. Glen Sather
5. Larry Pleau

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Old
08-02-2004, 04:28 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vast Ant Dioi
Worst GMs:

1. John Ferguson, Jr.
2. Jeremy Jacobs (heh, I mean Mike O'Connell)
3. Brian Burke
4. Glen Sather
5. Larry Pleau
You're a clown.

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Old
08-02-2004, 04:32 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Overrated
4-Don Waddell
Why?

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Old
08-02-2004, 04:48 PM
  #21
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha ACE
Why?
Same reason I would label anybody overrated: I feel people give him more props than he deserves.

I feel he neglected the defensive aspect of his franchise too often, is awful at choosing coaches (and left Fraser way too long, even extanding his contract for chrissakes). I don't like the Thrashers drafting all that much but people give there credit there once again, because of gimme-picks that were worldwide concensus.

I do however think he has a great personality, great work ethic. He is sometimes a little bit too patience for my liking but patience can be a virtue. He makes nice veteran additions (particularly in free agency) as far as forwards go and I like some of his trading of lesser assets. He turns them around VERY well.

It's not all bad. I just think he's overrated.

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Old
08-02-2004, 04:49 PM
  #22
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I think Lacroix is a top3 GM despite last year trades that didnt work well, he made a kick @$$ team for many years.

And the worst ever is Regean Houle :mad:

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Old
08-02-2004, 04:56 PM
  #23
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Could someone please change the name of the thread to "Whine about how your favorite team's Gm isn't the worst or most overrated" Or "Complain about your most hated team's GM being one of the best"...

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Old
08-02-2004, 05:05 PM
  #24
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83Schremp44
Could someone please change the name of the thread to "Whine about how your favorite team's Gm isn't the worst or most overrated" Or "Complain about your most hated team's GM being one of the best"...
:lol

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Old
08-02-2004, 05:09 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Same reason I would label anybody overrated: I feel people give him more props than he deserves.

I feel he neglected the defensive aspect of his franchise too often, is awful at choosing coaches (and left Fraser way too long, even extanding his contract for chrissakes). I don't like the Thrashers drafting all that much but people give there credit there once again, because of gimme-picks that were worldwide concensus.

I do however think he has a great personality, great work ethic. He is sometimes a little bit too patience for my liking but patience can be a virtue. He makes nice veteran additions (particularly in free agency) as far as forwards go and I like some of his trading of lesser assets. He turns them around VERY well.

It's not all bad. I just think he's overrated.
Fair and square. I especially agree with you on his drafting, but I don't feel that Waddell is that overrated.

When talking about the lack of patience, are you talking about this season? Some fans felt that Waddell waited too long during the horrible span at the beginning of the year and wasn't able to land somebody to help out. Yet you had to consider that the Thrasher didn't had the assets or weren't willing to move certain assets to improve the team (e.g. Slater)

I think he's pretty much OK for a GM.

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