HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Top GMs, worst GMs, overrated GMs

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-02-2004, 10:41 PM
  #51
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,120
vCash: 500
I have long argued with Oilers fans about Lowe. I think he has shown to be a below-average GM so far, but has promise (I think he has done a great job marketing the Oilers and setting up the Heritage Classic, as well as icing a team that works hard).

4 years since Lowe took over the helm and not a hell of a lot has changed. Are the youngsters any better? Maybe a little bit, but I don't see a huge improvement. You can say how the prospect pool looks great and all, but until those guys pan out, they haven't done much yet. I'm sure after 1999 when Rita was drafted, things looked awesome. Henrich and Rita were both top picks, Comrie was quickly known to be a steal, Semenov looked hot.

Has the team on the ice looked better? Certainly not. Have the finances improved? Along the lines with inflating, Slats was operating under similar budget constraints with the Oilers. However, when Slats left, the Oilers were a playoff team year in, year out. Now they are by some to be considered one of the bottom 5 teams in the Western conference. Progress?

Then you look at some of the deals Lowe has made on the contract table. Cross for 3 years is already looking ridiculous. The Oilers have Staios, Ulanov, Cross, Bergeron, and Semenov all ready to go next year along with the clearcut guys in Smith and Brewer. Then you consider Woywitka could be ready. Why did he need to sign Cross for 3 years? ARG.

The Niinimaa deal for me was the last straw for Lowe. I liked him up until that moment. Trading the #1 defenseman while crying poor.. but then picking up a $1.8 million dollar Isbister who played on the fourth line? Torres played okay, but hardly the contribution Niinimaa made the last couple of years.

I will say this though, the Carter & Dvorak trade was brilliant. I liked that all along, and that was, in my opinion at least, Lowe's best move as a GM.

Mizral is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 10:42 PM
  #52
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,120
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Why is Lowe getting all this crap of being overrated? He is not overrated but the most criticized GM. There are fans that are expecting the same from Lowe as from Slats in the first 5 years. It ain't happening. Slats had a better roster to begin with. He didn't have to clean up the mess that Slats left. Man do I wish Slats never existed.
If any non-Oilers fans ever wonder how much Oilers fans love Kevin Lowe, here's your answer:

Kevin Lowe sold Oilers fans on a 9-year rebuilding plan.

Mizral is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 10:50 PM
  #53
Narnia
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Narnia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,394
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Narnia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
If any non-Oilers fans ever wonder how much Oilers fans love Kevin Lowe, here's your answer:

Kevin Lowe sold Oilers fans on a 9-year rebuilding plan.
And you wonder why no one wants to sign with Edmonton. Fans are saying the GM sucks. Lowe never said he's on a 9-year rebuilding plan. Stop blaming Lowe for stuff Slats did. Someone once said that Lowe has been with the Oilers for 9 mediocre years. He blamed Lowe for 5 of Slats crap. Lowe had to clean up Slats mess. Believe me. I read it in the Edmonton papers. Do fans want to drive Lowe out of town like they did with Poti and Arnott and who knows who else.

BTW, Nonis is overrated.

__________________
"He just ate up Robyn Regehr for dinner, a spectacular play by Hemsky, and Robyn Regehr has got doo doo all over his face" - Rod Phillips call on Hemsky's goal vs the Flames
Narnia is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 10:54 PM
  #54
Mothra
Registered User
 
Mothra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 7,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Worst
1. George McPhee - I can't name a good trade he's made, or a quality talent he brought into the Capitals' organization. Has just run that team right into the ground.
Oates for Ouellet, 1st, 2nd, 3rd

Beech, Sivek, Lupaschuk, and $ for Jagr

Anson Carter for Aulin

Gonchar for Morrisonn, 1st, 2nd

Grier for Klepis

Moving up in 2002 draft (Semin)

Simon/Nikolishin for Nylander and 2 3rds

Jeff Halpern for.....well...nothing

thats at least a few good trades....and quality talent

Mothra is online now  
Old
08-02-2004, 10:58 PM
  #55
Vlad The Impaler
Registered User
 
Vlad The Impaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 11,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
Solid list, Vladdy. I like Holland and Clarke in your top 5. I have several peices I don't like however:

Gainey I consider a very middle-of-the-road GM.

Poile I don't think belongs on the most overrated group either.

Lastly, I don't share your optimism about Riseborough.

Surprised MacLean has been overlooked on some of the 'worst' lists.
Thanks. I really like your list as well.

MacLean I just didn't feel it was faair yet. I tried to avoid putting any guy that had been there for only a few years but frankly, it isn't good so far. He probably would have made it but he made me eat crow with Rick Nash. Above and beyond anything I ever expected. He went agressively after him and two years later the dude has a Rocket Richard and has been a contributer for two seasons.

He fixed the Zherdev mess, *tried* to make the team competitive but it just doesn't work.

I also gave him a bit of slack because I enjoyed his years in Florida. But then again I am disappointed in his stint as coach. Expected him to kickstart Kleslaa, didn't happen.

He got himself a decent and very young #1 goalie for a 2nd rounder, that's something. But it is time for his team to focus in a direction and accomplish something, *anything*.

I am surprised he didn't make more lists but I would guess it's the same thing as me: People wanted to give him one more years and there are GMs with greater histories, track records and visibility.

I think Gainey is excellent. Disagree with you. He wouldn't make my list for a single year of service but I take the entire track record of a GM and to me, he built something nice in Dallas with stability and true leadership from the top down. This is the prime qualities I look for in a GM.

He does make the odd bad call and he does seem to have an unhealthy love for grinding prospect sometimes but so far it's looking good. Greater stability, not afraid to pull the trigger and get a big time player at the deadline. It worked partly but Julien and Souray made it backfire with utterly moronic comments (and you can bet your ass Gainey probably ripped them a new one).

He had the balls to tell stupid fans that they needed to boo a player when he doesn't deserve it.

Just got himself a rarity in the league, a skilled, big centerman for pocket change. Yes, Bonk comes with issues and I don't think he is fantastic but that is a steal. Secured him to an awesome contract.

He surrounds himself well, still exudes all the leadership, intelligence, calm intensity and dignity that made him one of the greatest utility player ever (IMHO). To me, he's got a little of some of Ken Holland's qualities and a little of Clarke's qualities and few of the disadvantages. I like him.

But do take into consideration that if I had to put my ten favorite NHLers in history, he would make the list easily all the time.

Poile to me is much the same he was back with the Caps. He builds unremarkable, nice little teams and to me he is an unremarkable GM. Nothing more, nothing less. It's a bunch of limited players. One year fans get all excited for Arkhipov, another year it's another player. It's a fairly limited squad with nothing amazing as far as surrounding himself with great people (coaching, development, etc.). Just an average GM, IMO. I don't know why he is praised all the time.

Vlad The Impaler is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:00 PM
  #56
Vlad The Impaler
Registered User
 
Vlad The Impaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 11,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
And you wonder why no one wants to sign with Edmonton. Fans are saying the GM sucks.
Yeah. I'm sure when a team offers a player a contract, the first thing he does is jump on his computer and start up Netscape to do the round of message boards and seek fan approval.

Vlad The Impaler is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:15 PM
  #57
Scottkmlps
Moderator
 
Scottkmlps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,392
vCash: 500
How can people say Dave Taylor is over-rated? Not an attack, just would like to know the reason.

Scottkmlps is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:16 PM
  #58
Burke's Evil Spirit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 15,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
He does make the odd bad call
This is probably the nicest description of signing Turgeon and dumping Hull *I've* ever heard...

Anyways, I'm sure you guys are all on the edge of your seats waiting for my opinion :lol

Best
1. Lou Lamoriello - Duh.
2. Ken Holland.
3. Pierre Lacroix - If only for the Patrick Roy trade.
4. Bobby Clarke - Philadelphia has been a contender for a decade now. Not many teams can make that boast.
5. Doug Risebrough - This would be one hell of a league if everyone ran their team like the Wild.

Worst
1. Mike Milbury
2. Jim Rutherford
These two are a blight on the ass of the league...leagues worse than anyone else who follows...

3. Mike O'Connell - Has no clue as to how a succesful hockey operation is run.
4. Darcy Regier - It baffles me that this clown still has a job.
5. Glen Sather - He so consistently ignores the obvious needs of his team. It's amazing.

Most over-rated
1. Dave Taylor - Middle of the pack guy who gets way too much credit.
2. Kevin Lowe - Ditto.
3. Bryan Murray - He manufactures short-term success, then runs it into the ground by going totally against what made him win in the first place. The parallels between what happened in Florida and Anaheim are eery...you'd think he'd learn from his mistakes.
4. Mike Keenan - Has an impressive resume when it comes to robbing teams blind in trades...everyone ignores the chaotic crapfests the teams he helms become.

Up-and-comers
1. Darryl Sutter - Some solid moves at the trade deadline, and a pretty masterful offseason so far.
2. Doug Wilson - Remarkable turnaround by SJ, and it's because he's not ****ing himself in the GM's box like Lombardi was.
3. Jay Feaster - I don't think the Lightning are flash-in-the-pan.

Going down in a Blazing Fireball of Stupidity
1. John Muckler - Adding Varada and Schaefer was smart. Nearly everything since then has been getting dumber and dumber, culminating in the mind-bogging carjacking that was the Rachunek/de Vries swap.
2. Craig Patrick - Your two Cups are only going to get you so much slack, Craig. Although Mario probably has something to do with the Penguins being in dire straits today, too.

Burke's Evil Spirit is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:29 PM
  #59
Mothra
Registered User
 
Mothra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 7,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Poile to me is much the same he was back with the Caps. He builds unremarkable, nice little teams and to me he is an unremarkable GM. Nothing more, nothing less. It's a bunch of limited players. One year fans get all excited for Arkhipov, another year it's another player. It's a fairly limited squad with nothing amazing as far as surrounding himself with great people (coaching, development, etc.). Just an average GM, IMO. I don't know why he is praised all the time.
I disagree with you on your McPhee opinion....not that I think he is great, just not bad and certainly not as bad as you think......but agree completely with you on Poile.......

Mothra is online now  
Old
08-03-2004, 01:05 AM
  #60
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,697
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
If any non-Oilers fans ever wonder how much Oilers fans love Kevin Lowe, here's your answer:

Kevin Lowe sold Oilers fans on a 9-year rebuilding plan.
I certainly wasn't sold on a 9 year rebuilding plan.. I expect improvement to come as soon as the next season begins. I definitely believe Lowe's moves were made in regards to a post-CBA context and I'm going to judge his capabilities as a GM on this as well. His first big test is going to be in reeling in a first-line centerman that can anchor down our forward corps. I will criticize him to the fullest extent if we go into next season with York/Horcoff as our top 2 centerman. I'm certainly not happy about missing the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 seasons but I also believe this team is in great condition for the post-CBA years. Our prospect pool is looking much brighter (go back and look at the prospects around 1998 - that's a lot of duds coming from top 10 picks) and the Oilers have a lot of good young players to build on. I've been easy on Lowe so far and I'm definitely going to start ragging on him if this 5 year plan fails to succeed and the Oilers end up missing the playoffs next season..

Cerebral is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 01:53 AM
  #61
KingPurpleDinosaur
Bandwagon Kings Fan
 
KingPurpleDinosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: irvine, ca
Posts: 2,883
vCash: 500
i really don't get the Dave Taylor overrated business because this isn't a guy who gets hyped up too much... if at all! I mean when you think of the hyped GMs, DT doens't come up until maybe the #10 spot, at which point I think he fits where he's supposed to. He's not a great GM, but he's an above average one.

The main problems I have with him is that he's too hesitant to pull off a trade unless he's pretty sure he gets an upper hand in it. This often times ends up in him not doing anything at all and eventually not solving some team problems (ie filling for injuries). Other then that, i consider most of his trades fairly well calculated risks that of course, sometimes and sometimes not, panned out.

So how exactly is he overrated?

KingPurpleDinosaur is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 02:09 AM
  #62
spence___
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Going down in a Blazing Fireball of Stupidity
1. John Muckler - Adding Varada and Schaefer was smart. Nearly everything since then has been getting dumber and dumber, culminating in the mind-bogging carjacking that was the Rachunek/de Vries swap.
2. Craig Patrick - Your two Cups are only going to get you so much slack, Craig. Although Mario probably has something to do with the Penguins being in dire straits today, too.
Other than the salary dumps what has CP done to deserve being on your list?

spence___ is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 02:27 AM
  #63
Rotting Corpse*
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kelowna, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,300
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rotting Corpse* Send a message via MSN to Rotting Corpse*
I definitely agree with Brian Burke being on your overrated list, but not on your worst list.

Brian Burke was overrated. People actually give him credit for "turning the franchise around," which is absolutely ridiculous. The reason the Canucks became a good franchise after years of ****tiness was because of two players: Markus Naslund and Todd Bertuzzi. Two players that Brian Burke had absolutely nothing to do with. True, he acquired Ed Jovanovski and Brendan Morrison, but when you have assets like Pavel Bure and Alexander Mogilny, that isn't exactly a difficult thing to do.

This is just another example that "Correlation Does Not Imply Causation." Just because the team sucked before Burke got here, and was great after he got year, does not mean that Brian Burke was responsible for the shift.

THAT SAID, while Burke may have been the most overrated GM in the entire league, he most certainly was not among the worst. A bad GM is a GM that hurts your team. Assumes ridiculous contracts, overpays for crappy players, etc. etc. Brian Burke never hurt this team, aside from trading away the odd draft pick for the odd Vadim Sharifijanov.

I have no problem with ranking Brian Burke as simply: Mediocre. There aren't many instances that you can point to and say "Wow, what a smart GM!" But there aren't too many debacles of moves either. He was just an average GM that made a bunch of small moves, helped the roster here and there, but never really put the team over the edge.

Brian Burke, as a GM, was about as overrated as they come when he was with the Canucks. But one of the worst GMs in the league? Nah.

Rotting Corpse* is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 02:30 AM
  #64
MS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 12,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
So you're saying Torres is garbage despite scoring 20 goals. Interesting. I think part of the reason Niinimaa was traded is because of his chronic back. How can you say the Oilers had a worse roster after that trade. Comrie is an *******, simple as that. I read something about Comrie that made me mad. He apparently demanded a trade 3 times after he came back from injury. If you want further details PM me. The trade with the Rangers that got the Oilers Nedved improved the Oilers as well as the PP.
Where did I say that Torres was garbage? I like him a lot and think he's a good player. Just not nearly as impactful as Niinimaa. If Vancouver dealt Mattias Ohlund for, say, Adam Hall, it doesn't mean Hall is a bad player, but that's still a rotten deal. Niinimaa is a #1 or #2 defender on every team in the league, was 27 at the time of the deal, and they didn't get market value for him.

Comrie is a greedy little suck. I can't stand him. But he was Edmonton's most talented player, and that deal didn't help the team at all. Woywitka has potential, so we'll see. I don't blame Lowe on this one, as I said previously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Prendergast didn't head the scouting while Slats was here. There was an article in the paper where Prendergast wanted to draft Elias and Sykora (the one that was in NJ) and was overruled by Fraser. Fraser was head scout until 2000 I believe. Prendegast may have had more input in 1999 but not before then. Don't attack Prendegast for Fraser's mistakes. What about the Fraser picks (Bonsignore, Kelly, Intranouva (sp?), Scott Allison, Devereaux, Heinrich).
I was under the impression Prendergast replaced Fraser around 97 or 98. I could be mistaken. Doesn't change the fact that Edmonton's drafting improved considerably in the late '90s from what it was in the early '90s, when it was an absolute disaster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Sorry to burst your bubble but this team's prospects pool was a mess. The Oilers were near the bottom of the league in terms of prospects. They did not have a strong prospect pool. I'm sorry but Lowe has drafted better than Slats.
Sorry, but you're just wrong here. Rita and Semenov were huge prospects around 2000/2001, probably higher-rated than anyone they have now. Comrie was considered a huge talent. Riesen was still very highly rated and had a big year in Hamilton the year previous. Henrich had been slightly disappointing but was still considered a good prospect. Guys like Horcoff, Pisani, Chimera were in the system, all future NHLers. A few guys who were very highly rated at the time have disappointed, but hindsight is 20/20. At the time, they were probably considered top-10 in the league in terms of prospects.

MS is online now  
Old
08-03-2004, 02:54 AM
  #65
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,697
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Where did I say that Torres was garbage? I like him a lot and think he's a good player. Just not nearly as impactful as Niinimaa. If Vancouver dealt Mattias Ohlund for, say, Adam Hall, it doesn't mean Hall is a bad player, but that's still a rotten deal. Niinimaa is a #1 or #2 defender on every team in the league, was 27 at the time of the deal, and they didn't get market value for him.
Niinimaa was playing on a bum knee all season and was far from the player he was in years past for the Oilers. It is ridiculous to claim he would be a #1/#2 d-man on any team as I can probably name close to 10 off the top of my head that he wouldn't crack (Ottawa, Colorado, Detroit, New Jersey, Vancouver etc). He was a great player but made a bunch of mistakes all year and simply was going to make too much money the next season to hold on to. I would argue that we got pretty decent value for him - Torres scored 20 goals in his first season and definitely looks like a keeper. It certainly hurt to lose our top minute guy but I never viewed the deal as moving a 100% Janne. I truly believe the Oilers would have found the cash to lock up Niinimaa to a 3 year deal if he was 100% healthy..

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
I was under the impression Prendergast replaced Fraser around 97 or 98. I could be mistaken. Doesn't change the fact that Edmonton's drafting improved considerably in the late '90s from what it was in the early '90s, when it was an absolute disaster.
Prendergast was definitely not head of scouting during the late 1990's.. likewise, the Oilers' drafting certainly didn't pick up in the late 1990's either. Our first round selections in 1997, 1998 and 1999 were Riesen, Henrich and Rita. Compare that to 1993-1995 (the early 1990's) where we drafted Arnott, Stadjuhar, Bonsignore, Smyth and Kelly. I'd easily argue that the Oilers' drafting in the early 1990's was pretty even to that in the late 1990's (I think it balances out as guys like Arnott and Smyth were picked early in the first round). The drafting seems to have turned around after Prendergast took over control and selected such players as Hemsky, Lynch, Stoll, JDD etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Sorry, but you're just wrong here. Rita and Semenov were huge prospects around 2000/2001, probably higher-rated than anyone they have now. Comrie was considered a huge talent. Riesen was still very highly rated and had a big year in Hamilton the year previous. Henrich had been slightly disappointing but was still considered a good prospect. Guys like Horcoff, Pisani, Chimera were in the system, all future NHLers. A few guys who were very highly rated at the time have disappointed, but hindsight is 20/20. At the time, they were probably considered top-10 in the league in terms of prospects.
The prospect pool was a heck of a lot weaker prior to Lowe's emergence as the Oilers GM. Rita was definitely still seen as a blue chip guy and we had high hopes for Semenov but Riesen's glow was quickly starting to dim and the depth after them was limited to pluggers like Horcoff, Pisani and Chimera. The prospect depth Edmonton has now with guys like Woywitka, Lynch, Niinimaki, Dubnyk, Pouliot and Schremp is worlds better than before Lowe emerged as a GM. You can argue that Lowe has weakend the NHL roster through some trades but I don't see how you can try and argue that the prospect depth has not strengthened since Lowe took over..

Cerebral is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 03:15 AM
  #66
SedinFan*
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Posts: 10,543
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to SedinFan*
Kevin Lowe might be one of the worst GM's in NHL history.

Edmonton could use a Dave Nonis to crack down on those terrible contracts Lowe has given out.

In a small market, you can't screw up as much as Lowe has financially, it's sickening, and I'm not even a fan of the Oilers.

SedinFan* is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 03:33 AM
  #67
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,697
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SedinFan
Kevin Lowe might be one of the worst GM's in NHL history.

Edmonton could use a Dave Nonis to crack down on those terrible contracts Lowe has given out.

In a small market, you can't screw up as much as Lowe has financially, it's sickening, and I'm not even a fan of the Oilers.
What terrible contracts has Lowe given out besides the one to Brewer? I'll give you Tommy Salo but he was a top 10 NHL goaltender going into his contract and took an inexplicable drop after the Olympics debacle.

I personally feel the contracts Lowe managed to get Smyth and Moreau to sign were both top drawer. Moreau signed a 4 year deal that pays him less each season of the contract and Smyth signed for less than market value to remain with the Oilers. He also just signed Isbister to a pay-cut (though that shouldn't have been very hard.. ) and convinced Jani Rita to stick around another year despite getting very little NHL ice time last season.

I think you're way off base on claiming Lowe as being one of the "worst GM's in NHL history". I realize you hate the Oilers but please use at least a little rationality when you make your posts. I just don't see how Lowe can be viewed as having killed the Oilers financially when the highest priced player on the roster is Ryan Smyth at around $3.5 million/season. How many contracts has Lowe screwed up on? Please don't say Cory Cross as he just put up very decent stats for the money he is making.


Last edited by Cerebral: 08-03-2004 at 03:41 AM.
Cerebral is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 07:26 AM
  #68
Jovavic
Lose to CBJ?
 
Jovavic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ClosedDoorMeeting
Country: Qatar
Posts: 10,757
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Jovavic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Thanks. I really like your list as well.

MacLean I just didn't feel it was faair yet. I tried to avoid putting any guy that had been there for only a few years but frankly, it isn't good so far. He probably would have made it but he made me eat crow with Rick Nash. Above and beyond anything I ever expected. He went agressively after him and two years later the dude has a Rocket Richard and has been a contributer for two seasons.

He fixed the Zherdev mess, *tried* to make the team competitive but it just doesn't work.

I also gave him a bit of slack because I enjoyed his years in Florida. But then again I am disappointed in his stint as coach. Expected him to kickstart Kleslaa, didn't happen.

He got himself a decent and very young #1 goalie for a 2nd rounder, that's something. But it is time for his team to focus in a direction and accomplish something, *anything*.

I am surprised he didn't make more lists but I would guess it's the same thing as me: People wanted to give him one more years and there are GMs with greater histories, track records and visibility.
.
He has a very good track record with trades, with only a few missteps. Odelein for Spacek and Fritsche? Keyvn Adams for Ray Whitney? What amounts to trading Sillinger and a 2nd for Svitov? Getting anying for Tuggnutt, Timmander, Pushor (twice). Getting a thrid rounder for not having Sanderson around for the last month of the season? And, like you stated, trading up for Nash.

The only glaring bad trade I see is trading a second rounder for Grant Marshall. He took a gamble on a guy and lost. He's done some minor trades that don't make sense (Pirjeta for Holzinger, Nielsen/Nummelin for Kallio/Levorki). His scouting department is very sound, finding solid players after the fifth round (Moyzakin, Piispanen, Petteral).

The one area I think he really sucks at is signing free agents. Yes, he is trying to help the team, but the amount and length he gave to Richardson, Lachance and Marchant have done more harm then good.

Overall, B-, middle of the pack. No way he should be anyone's "worst 5".

Jovavic is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 07:45 AM
  #69
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
Buff Drinklots
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Germany
Posts: 54,234
vCash: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence___
Other than the salary dumps what has CP done to deserve being on your list?
Agreed. His best days may be behind him, but he ain't exactly going down in a fireball of stupidity either.

__________________
“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile, but that it is indifferent. If we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death, our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” - Stanley Kubrick
http://sprites.pokecheck.org/i/054.gif
Big McLargehuge is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 08:18 AM
  #70
Evilo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: France
Country: France
Posts: 27,004
vCash: 432
And like Marty Straka said : if so many players turn their careers around in Pittsburgh it has to do with the GM and staff.

Evilo is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 08:36 AM
  #71
Ajacied
Remember #9
 
Ajacied's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 23,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
Most Overrated:
1 - Dave Taylor
2 - Kevin Lowe
3 - Bob Gainey
4 - Don Waddell
5 - Doug Armstrong
Doug hasn't done as much to be put in any group, you can't label him anything just yet, let alone overrated, when not one person related to the Dallas Stars organisation has ever regret a single move of his. Well outside some draft picks but he isn't a scout, all he does is announce them. He has maintained Mike Modano and Marty Turco, signed Jere Lehtinen to a rediculously cheap and long term deal, and adresses our needs without hesitations. Yet you are praising your own Nonis strictly for having re-signed Naslund, your logic is completely flawed by I assume your bias and I would seriously like to hear some sound reasoning to back this up.

Bob made a few questional signees (Turgeon, Audette, Kamensky), or the lack there of (letting Hull walk), but he always tried to fix what didn't work out as soon as possible. He pretty much build the 1999 Stars championship team, I don't know how you can say he's overrated, not especially after he managed to turn Montreal into a contender the moment he arrived.

Ajacied is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 08:48 AM
  #72
Bileur
Registered User
 
Bileur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,709
vCash: 500
I think Muckler sucks.

JFJ hasnt been the leafs GM long enough to label him.

Rejean Houle=Worst GM ever, Borderline saboteur

Bileur is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 08:57 AM
  #73
Colorado Avalanche
Registered User
 
Colorado Avalanche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lieto
Country: Finland
Posts: 15,536
vCash: 500
Why is pierre lacroix most overrated???


Bourque,Roy,Blake.. i think he's damn good!

Colorado Avalanche is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 09:11 AM
  #74
degroat*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: http://nhl.degroat.n
Posts: 8,108
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
3. Larry Pleau - inherited virtually his entire core from the Keenan era. Added little to it.
Pleau inherited: Pronger, Mayers, Low

Pleau signed: Drake, Rycroft, Sejna, Salvador

Pleau traded for: Weight, Boguniecki, Sillinger, Tkachuk, Johnson, Weinrich, Lalime

Pleau drafted: Cajanek, Jackman, Backman, Walker, Khavanov, Divis

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Overpaid horribly for Tkachuk.
Hindsight is 20/20. Not a single person said that at the time of the trade. Nagy was horrible with the Blues up to that point. Taffe was unproven [and still is]. At the time the Blues were trying to win the Cup that year and traded one roster player for the best power forward in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Continually unable to find quality goaltending.
If you're such an expert, then what should have he done?

Anyone familiar with the situation [that doesn't let their hatred of Pleau get to them] knows that he did everything he could to get a top goaltender. The only time he had a chance to acquire a top goaltender was Hasek and he outbid Detroit for his services. Pleau couldn't help that he picked Detroit. And, the only offseason where he could have picked up a top goaltender was when Belfour was a free agent and that was right after Brent Johnson played out of his mind in the playoffs. There was no way he could have signed a $6M+ goaltender when he had a cheap one that seemingly was about to prove himself in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Team is on the downswing.
The team isn't on the downswing because of his lack of ability. The team is on the downswing because they're cutting payroll and choosing to be on a downswing.

degroat* is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 09:12 AM
  #75
degroat*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: http://nhl.degroat.n
Posts: 8,108
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Color@do @v@l@nche
Why is pierre lacroix most overrated???


Bourque,Roy,Blake.. i think he's damn good!
Lacroix is overrated because he reaped the benefits of the Lindros trade for years and that has allowed him to overpay for players in the past. Now his overpayments are hurting the team.

degroat* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.