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Top GMs, worst GMs, overrated GMs

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Old
08-03-2004, 10:35 AM
  #76
Puckhead
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There seems to be some consensus picks in all three areas, here are mine...

Best GM - Lou Lamariello

He is the perfect guy to have at the head of your organization. He is hard nosed, he is a no nonsense, my way or the highway GM. If guys hold out, he wont fold, he holds on until the player realizes there is no other way then to deal with Lou. He always puts the best interests of the Devils before any one player. He has class and is very well respected in hockey circles. To top it off he was smart enough to make David Conte his head of scouting and this guy is above all others.

Most Overrated GM - Glen Sather

This guy is still living off the early success of the Oilers. Granted they won 5 Cups in the 80's, but he has proven since then that it was mostly blind luck. He is a terrible judge of talent, and his excuse with the pitiful Oilers of most of the 90's was that he didn't have enough money to put a more competitive team on the ice...Obviously that is no longer a crutch with the free spending and absolutely PATHETIC Rangers, who have been spending double the average team salary and still fail to even make the playoffs. He is very cocky, but judging by track record, I have no idea why.

Worst GM - Mike Milbury

This guy is some piece of work. He has drafted incredibly well over the past decade, but if you were consistantly picking in the top 5 every year I guess he should be pretty good at it. He has drafted some real gems...unfortunately none are still with the club...

Todd Bertuzzi
Bryan McCabe
Eric Brewer
Roberto Luongo
Bryan Berard
Zdeno Chara
Zigmund Palffy

I know there are plenty others that he has had and almost given away, and what he got in return in most cases was even more embarassing. Blackmail must be alive and well in the front office of the NY Islanders, because that is the only reason I can figure as to why this clown still has a job.

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Old
08-03-2004, 10:55 AM
  #77
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I have to say some kind words for Ken Holland here, and I know I'll probably be in a minority when I do,but here goes.

Ken Holland has managed to accumulate over the years the nucleus of a three-time Stanley Cup champion team through drafts, trades and free agents. Considering that a lot of the draft choices have been late-round diamonds in the rough (guys like Holmstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc), he's been pretty darned lucky. He managed to pick up Kris Draper for a buck (not a bad investment whatsoever), and he has gotten guys like Shanahan and Chelios for trading away people that either didn't fit in or were discontent in Detroit.

Most everyone who comes here to play has been happy with the situation they have found themselves in...sure, there have been a few exceptions, but how many other teams have guys who just don't want to leave because they are happy playing for a team that wins, and treats them with respect?

As I say, I am probably going to be in the minority on this, but I say Ken Holland deserves a little credit.

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08-03-2004, 11:04 AM
  #78
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Holland did inherit most of his talent, but that's not his fault. He has done a good job.

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08-03-2004, 12:40 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
Lacroix is overrated because he reaped the benefits of the Lindros trade for years and that has allowed him to overpay for players in the past. Now his overpayments are hurting the team.
true!

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Old
08-03-2004, 12:42 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuzzi21
People that bash JFJ are just leaf haters. JFJ is a good GM, and will continue to get better.
You can't say that. I have nothing against the Leafs but I think JFJ is the worst if not, worst 5 for sure.

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Old
08-03-2004, 12:51 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
Surprised MacLean has been overlooked on some of the 'worst' lists.

My list...

WORST

4 - Don MacLean
I'm not suprised, you are the only one that thought of him and still don't even know his name.

Doug MacLean.

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Old
08-03-2004, 02:16 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
I'm not suprised, you are the only one that thought of him and still don't even know his name.

Doug MacLean.

Wow, so picky.


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Old
08-03-2004, 02:31 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by spence___
Other than the salary dumps what has CP done to deserve being on your list?
Uh, what has Pittsburgh become in the last 5 years if not inept salary dump after inept salary dump?

The Jagr deal was a wet fart. The Straka deal was hideous, and it came with the added caveat that Pittsburgh picks up part of his contract next season. The Zubov deal was atrocious, and New York got more for Alexei Kovalev as a rental than Pittsburgh did when they traded him. They have nothing to show for Shean Donovan, Wayne Primeau has become a great checker in San Jose (both these guys earned salaries which would have been in line with players in Pittsburgh this year), hiring his colour commentator as his head coach just reeks of Chicago/Carolina-type nepotism, and he has failed to address team needs on defense for almost 5 years, now. He has the odd good move to his credit (getting Pirjeta, Jackman at the trade deadline; picking up Tarnstrom on waivers) but the Penguins over the last five years have been woefully run and it's not just because of finances.

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Old
08-03-2004, 02:43 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by MS
Where did I say that Torres was garbage? I like him a lot and think he's a good player. Just not nearly as impactful as Niinimaa. If Vancouver dealt Mattias Ohlund for, say, Adam Hall, it doesn't mean Hall is a bad player, but that's still a rotten deal. Niinimaa is a #1 or #2 defender on every team in the league, was 27 at the time of the deal, and they didn't get market value for him.

Comrie is a greedy little suck. I can't stand him. But he was Edmonton's most talented player, and that deal didn't help the team at all. Woywitka has potential, so we'll see. I don't blame Lowe on this one, as I said previously.



I was under the impression Prendergast replaced Fraser around 97 or 98. I could be mistaken. Doesn't change the fact that Edmonton's drafting improved considerably in the late '90s from what it was in the early '90s, when it was an absolute disaster.



Sorry, but you're just wrong here. Rita and Semenov were huge prospects around 2000/2001, probably higher-rated than anyone they have now. Comrie was considered a huge talent. Riesen was still very highly rated and had a big year in Hamilton the year previous. Henrich had been slightly disappointing but was still considered a good prospect. Guys like Horcoff, Pisani, Chimera were in the system, all future NHLers. A few guys who were very highly rated at the time have disappointed, but hindsight is 20/20. At the time, they were probably considered top-10 in the league in terms of prospects.
I think this is a case of someone unjustly putting Lowe down on the overrated list, others followed and said "if i make my list a little like his, it will look more credible, like i know what i'm talking about," and now this group who accuse Lowe of being overrated are desperately trying to save face by listing trades out of context

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Old
08-03-2004, 02:50 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead
Todd Bertuzzi
Bryan McCabe
Eric Brewer
Roberto Luongo
Bryan Berard
Zdeno Chara
Zigmund Palffy
Hey now. He didn't draft Berard... he drafted Redden.

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Old
08-03-2004, 02:53 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by think.blue
Please explain why you think JFJ is the worst GM in the league.
He's a west coast, toronto enying Canadian. It's that simple. The verdict is still out on JFJ. You cannot judge by one season.

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Old
08-03-2004, 03:22 PM
  #87
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On Doug MacLean, I don't think he really registers on any of the lists -- yet.
One one hand, he is a master trader (wait for it ... rimshot ... try the veal!). My comrade Ozzie listed some of his more notable ones, but I'd also add his work at this year's draft where he came into day one with 1 first and 4 thirds and came out with 1 first, 2 seconds and 2 thirds without giving up anything extra. There are plenty of examples and few GMs I'd rather have pulling the strings when it comes to trades.

Drafting is good, so far, but with a young organization, there still is a lot to prove before he can really be heralded here.

On the other hand, the free agents really haven't panned out. I'm not sure who to blame for this though. All of the signings were need signings for this team and he went out and got the types of players needed. He overpayed, but those players wouldn't come here otherwise. But, the fact is the higher priced players have been disapointing.

Then there is his biggest fault -- his failings on the coaching end. The on-ice product has had three coaches and generally has been pretty rudderless since year two. That has to fall on Doug's shoulders.

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Old
08-03-2004, 03:29 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Uh, what has Pittsburgh become in the last 5 years if not inept salary dump after inept salary dump?

The Jagr deal was a wet fart. The Straka deal was hideous, and it came with the added caveat that Pittsburgh picks up part of his contract next season. The Zubov deal was atrocious, and New York got more for Alexei Kovalev as a rental than Pittsburgh did when they traded him. They have nothing to show for Shean Donovan, Wayne Primeau has become a great checker in San Jose (both these guys earned salaries which would have been in line with players in Pittsburgh this year), hiring his colour commentator as his head coach just reeks of Chicago/Carolina-type nepotism, and he has failed to address team needs on defense for almost 5 years, now. He has the odd good move to his credit (getting Pirjeta, Jackman at the trade deadline; picking up Tarnstrom on waivers) but the Penguins over the last five years have been woefully run and it's not just because of finances.
The Pen's defense in 2000-2001 when they went to the East Conferance finals was pretty good. Ference failed to become the defenseman he showed he could be, Roszival and Melichar have both been plagued with injuries. Laukkanen became debilitated because of his arthritis. The only thing you could really blame him was for not dealing guys like Lang, Kovalev and Straka sooner but he was trying to make the playoffs for 12 consecutive years.

If your going to criticise him for moves as old as 8 years old and for trading a guy like Donovan than why not give him credit for finding guys like Straka and Lang.

Primeau was useless in Pittsburgh, I don't care what he goes on to do I'll never miss him.

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Old
08-03-2004, 03:44 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Uh, what has Pittsburgh become in the last 5 years if not inept salary dump after inept salary dump?

The Jagr deal was a wet fart. The Straka deal was hideous, and it came with the added caveat that Pittsburgh picks up part of his contract next season. The Zubov deal was atrocious, and New York got more for Alexei Kovalev as a rental than Pittsburgh did when they traded him. They have nothing to show for Shean Donovan, Wayne Primeau has become a great checker in San Jose (both these guys earned salaries which would have been in line with players in Pittsburgh this year), hiring his colour commentator as his head coach just reeks of Chicago/Carolina-type nepotism, and he has failed to address team needs on defense for almost 5 years, now. He has the odd good move to his credit (getting Pirjeta, Jackman at the trade deadline; picking up Tarnstrom on waivers) but the Penguins over the last five years have been woefully run and it's not just because of finances.
There's really no way to argue with any of that.

Finances may have forced the trades of all those players, but Craig still timed them all pretty badly.

Pens fans -- what has really separated Patrick from McPhee over the last several years, besides the fact that McPhee was able to get more for their assets (except Jagr)?

As an aside, I thought Edzo for coach was a ridiculous move when it happened, but I'm slowly being proven wrong.


Last edited by tom_servo: 08-03-2004 at 03:48 PM.
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Old
08-03-2004, 04:08 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kira
As I say, I am probably going to be in the minority on this, but I say Ken Holland deserves a little credit.
If you had bothered to check, he made plenty of lists! :mad:





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Old
08-03-2004, 05:14 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SedinFan
Kevin Lowe might be one of the worst GM's in NHL history.

Edmonton could use a Dave Nonis to crack down on those terrible contracts Lowe has given out.

In a small market, you can't screw up as much as Lowe has financially, it's sickening, and I'm not even a fan of the Oilers.
You might want to back this up with some examples, because I'm not sure what you're getting at.

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Old
08-03-2004, 05:15 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Seachd
You might want to back this up with some examples, because I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Signing Brewer to over 2 million dollars two years ago? He paid for whta Brewer can do at that point, not what he has done.

Oates at almost 2 million for last year.

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08-03-2004, 05:16 PM
  #93
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Regarding Lowe, I'll copy my post from the Oilers board:

Is Lowe overrated? I don't know... I would say he isn't.

But I'm a big Lowe fan. Mainly because the things he's done that I like far outnumber the things I don't like.

His short-term goal was to keep this team competitive until a new CBA is put in place. Mission accomplished. At the same time, he dealt with the necessary evil of shedding salary to keep the team in Edmonton, let alone competitive. And, now that we've had time to look at some of those deals, they seem not too bad, regardless of how they looked at the time.

I know some don't agree, but I love how he handled the Comrie situation. "But if he had traded him sooner, he could have gotten something better!" And if that butterfly in China had flapped its wings one more time, I'd be a billionaire. I know how that works.

Sure, there are some things about him that I find a little negative. For example, I often get pretty impatient with his patience. I have no idea why he threw in that 2nd rounder in the Niinimaa deal, and it still bugs me that he didn't get NJ's higher 2nd (or even both) in the Parise-Pouliot swap.

Other than that, I think he's done a damn good job. We can talk about getting that #1 center, but that's easier said than done, and the Oilers are in the position where they'll probably have to grow their own. That leads us to drafting, which is literally a hundred times better than it was just a few years ago.

So bottom line, the Oilers are still in Edmonton, still competitive, and have a very bright future. Chalk me up under "happy".

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Old
08-03-2004, 05:17 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Signing Brewer to over 2 million dollars two years ago? He paid for whta Brewer can do at that point, not what he has done.

Oates at almost 2 million for last year.
Or signing their best player to a very reasonable contract.

Or signing their most recent MVP to a long-term deal that starts low and gets even lower.

Awful.

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Old
08-03-2004, 08:18 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by spence___
Donovan than why not give him credit for finding guys like Straka and Lang.
Absolutely, I'll give him full credit for finding a hidden offensive gem on waivers who turned out to be supremely gifted offensively, and also one of the most injury-prone players in the league. I'll further give him credit for signing him to a moronic contract that he wasn't able to offload until he picked up some salary.

I'll also give him full credit for letting Lang walk for $5.25 million, then watching him turn into an Art Ross contender while simultaneously giving Mario $5 million to injure his hip and eat poutine.

Now, I'm exaggerating here, but IMO Lang and Straka are far from feathers in Craig Patrick's cap. Yes, he spotted their talent - and there is no denying he has one of the best eyes for offensive talent in the world, but being a GM is so much more than that.

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Old
08-03-2004, 09:50 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDaddy Version 1.3
He's a west coast, toronto enying Canadian. It's that simple. The verdict is still out on JFJ. You cannot judge by one season.
I agree, which is why Im puzzled with all of the negativity. So far, all he's been guilty of is bringing back a team which got him 103 pts in the regular season and put themselves in a position to compete for the cup. Was the move necessarily creative? No. Does it make him a "bad" GM, let alone the worst in the league? Most certainly not.

Also, with some of the smaller moves he's made with the changes to the scouting staff and addition of a strength/conditioning camp for prospects, I think he's putting more emphasis on scouting and development. JFJ cannot really be judged until this crop of forwards he has now moves on/retires; I think we'll see that after next season with Nolan, Mogilny, Nieuwendyk, Roberts and Leetch's contracts expiring. Right now, it looks as though he's giving this group one last shot.

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08-03-2004, 11:02 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDaddy Version 1.3
He's a west coast, toronto enying Canadian. It's that simple. The verdict is still out on JFJ. You cannot judge by one season.
:lol

I'd like to know what it is you think I'm envious of.

Also, nice assumption about where I live.

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Old
08-04-2004, 12:33 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Garfield
You can't say that. I have nothing against the Leafs but I think JFJ is the worst if not, worst 5 for sure.
I'm not trying to be an ass here but all I want is an answer as to why this is.

It's not fair to say that Ferguson is a bad GM because the Leafs have money. I don't know if that's jealousy regarding the team's finances (which is misplaced, as Ferguson has nothing to do with it) or a feeling that he spends such money foolishly (which I would argue, as they did as well or better than any other high salary teams this year - Detroit, Colorado, Rangers etc.). The guy got the Leafs to a franchise record regular season turnout, a fair playoff run, and now Pat Quinn's not having heart attacks. How is this guy bad at his job?

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Old
08-04-2004, 12:39 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
I'll also give him full credit for letting Lang walk for $5.25 million, then watching him turn into an Art Ross contender while simultaneously giving Mario $5 million to injure his hip and eat poutine.
Oh good lord, everyone in the world thought that was drastic overpayment for Lang, and the Penguins sure as hell didn't have the money to give him.

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Old
08-04-2004, 12:51 AM
  #100
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still no reply as to why people think dave taylor is overrated. can somebody backup their opinions? i'm really curious as to what you think is overrated about dave taylor

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