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Top GMs, worst GMs, overrated GMs

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Old
08-05-2004, 02:41 AM
  #126
Trottier
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These types of lists are 100% subjective, but it strikes this reader as humorous that David Poile, Jay Feaster, Doug Wilson and Darryl Sutter (the latter three from the "our span of history extends about 5 months back" department) are classified alongside Lou Lamariello.

Meanwhile, the architect of one of the, without question, three most successful franchises of the last decade, a two-time Cup champion/perennial contender, and a guy who was right once again this past season with two personnel moves (Aebischer and Konowalchuk) that were second-guessed insufferably here on the board (with no apologies ever offered up by the critics) is "overrated"? :lol

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Old
08-05-2004, 03:04 AM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vburnette
Hardly "going down in a blazing spiral of stupidity," IMO. Pittsburgh's disastrous financial situation was the worst kept secret in the league at that time. CP didn't exactly have a lot of leverage, as other GMs knew he didn't have choice but to trade his players- holding onto them could've been a financial nightmare for the Pens.
As for the Rangers getting more for Kovalev and the Caps getting more for Jagr, both of those teams have a lot more finances (re:LEVERAGE) to work with; they could've afforded to keep those players around if they had to. CP's hands were tied.
The Straka deal wasn't that bad. Sergei Anshakov is shaping up to be a pretty good player. Also, how many games did Straka play for the Kings last year? And as for Primeau, see above. He was useless as a Pen and no one was sorry to see him gone.
First of all, nowhere did I claim the Caps got better return for Jagr than Pittsburgh did.

Second of all, this "Pittsburgh is short on cash" notion is the biggest myth I have ever heard. True, they aren't the Rangers but they aren't these paupers you are making them out to be. They were so short on cash they just threw $9 million at Mark Recchi? They were hemorrhaging money, so they signed M-A Fleury to arguably the most lucrative rookie contract ever? You clearly buy the line Pittsburgh managemet is feeding their fans...

Before being purchased by Eugene Melnyk, Ottawa had similar financial problems and they were able to parlay Alexei Yashin into a Norris-calibre d-man and a bluechip prospect. How come they didn't need leverage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vburnette
Edzo's actually starting to show signs of being a pretty darn good coach someday soon. No mistake in hiring him, IMO.
No, he isn't. He blows goats, and was clearly out of his league last season.

He might be a good NHL coach in 5 years or so.


Quote:
Not true. Have you seen the Pens stable of defensive prospects? Arguably the best in the NHL. Wait 5 years until all that talent accumulated under CP is developed and then talk about their defense.
That's great. Doesn't change the fact that the Pens defense has sucked for the last 5 years and will suck for the next 5. Wow, 10 years to address the problem on the blueline? Fast work, Craig!

It's also irrelevent as to how good Pittsburgh's prospects are, because if the farm system CP has built stays they way it is, none of them will ever reach their full potential. You realize that until Ryan Malone came along last season it had been almost a decade since the last Penguins draft pick came along and was a consistent offensive threat over the course of an entire season?

Pittsburgh's youth has *always* looked good, and when they get to the Pros they falter and struggle, and nothing is convincing me this will change in the future.

At least he fired his brother from WB/S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vburnette
You defended McPhee earlier for his "astute" handling of the Jagr trade
No I didn't. Where the hell are you getting this?

Quote:
OK, maybe you can explain how CP could've done something to get the OWNER to take a paycut? CP's hands were tied on this one again. I'm fairly certain Mario had a large say in his salary.
He couldn't, obviously. Which is why CP is not on my "worst of" - list; a lot of Pittsburgh's problems originate with Mario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vburnette
As for Lang, I like the guy, but $5.25 million was too much at the time. And it's not like CP could've afforded at the time. Also, I think you're underestimating how much being plucked off waivers and playing on a line with Kovy and Strake did for Lang's career. Without getting an oppurtunity like that from CP, there's NO WAY he contends for the Art Ross last year.
This does not mean he would not have gotten the same oppurtunity elsewhere. In fact, given how hard up the league is for offensive skill, it's likely someone else would have picked him up...this is a moot point, however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vburnette
I would say Straka and LAng are two of the biggest feathers in CP's cap. Lang was waiver fodder before CP came along and as Evilo mentioned earlier, the GM and organization deserve a lot of credit when players' careers turn around like that. Straka himself admits it.
So the two biggest feathers in CP's cap are an injury-prone, overpaid center and a guy with 2 good offensive years in the last 5 seasons? This supports my argument - nothing spectacular here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vburnette
CP has made a lot of really smart, solid deals in the past and the Francis and Samuelsson trade is probably the best in history.
It was also made almost 15 years ago. By this logic, Glen Sather should be at the top of everybody's list.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vburnette
This guy's in the hall of fame as a builder for a reason. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt here, shall we?
I would, but there's no doubting the cluster**** Pittsburgh has become under his watch.

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Old
08-05-2004, 10:56 AM
  #128
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i would say Lou Lamoriello has done the best job, followed closely by pierre lacroix. lacroix, because the avs wouldn't have won a cup without patrick roy...they wouldn't have won the second cup without roy, rob blake, and especially ray bourque...all players that lacroix traded for. lacroix can manage his assets to reel in the BIGGEST fish almost every time. i think ken holland is easily the most overrated g.m. I'm not saying that he's bad at his job...but other than write checks with an open check book, what specifically has he done? when a salary cap is in place to limit spending, the phonie g.m.'s will be exposed.

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Old
08-05-2004, 05:27 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeC44
Hey now. He didn't draft Berard... he drafted Redden.
Thanks! But seeing as they were then traded for one another right away I feel it still counts.

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Old
08-05-2004, 06:21 PM
  #130
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
- Signing Ed Belfour
- Signing Brett Hull
- Getting Sydor for I believe 2 enforcers (Churla and Zmolek)
- Getting Zubov for a declining Kevin Hatcher
- Aquiring Ludwig, Keane, Garbonneau, Skrudland.

Having drafted:

- Jere Lehtinen
- Jarome Iginla
- Derian Hatcher
- Richard Matvichuk
- Marty Turco
- Brenden Morrow
- Jamie Langenbrunner
- Steve Ott
- Antti Miettinen
- Niko Kapanen
Also Todd Harvey, Richard Jackman.

And most importantly, hired Hitchcock. Gave him his first chance in the league and that guy kicks ass.

I don't think his drafting has been stellar but it is certainly not bad.

He is an apt learner, knows about playing and coaching at a high level, has a stellar track record as a player, has been winning both individually and within team concepts. He has the "been there, done that" prestige of a Bobby Clarke but with the smoother approach of a Ken Holland.

Ok, the Stars didn't have a series of SC win like the Devils, Wings and Avs but outside of the big three, I think the Stars were one of the powerhouse of the league. Not easy to do considering there were two other amazing teams in their conference.

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Old
08-05-2004, 06:23 PM
  #131
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
(the latter three from the "our span of history extends about 5 months back" department)
:lol :lol :lol

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Old
08-06-2004, 01:30 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
These types of lists are 100% subjective, but it strikes this reader as humorous that David Poile, Jay Feaster, Doug Wilson and Darryl Sutter (the latter three from the "our span of history extends about 5 months back" department) are classified alongside Lou Lamariello.

Meanwhile, the architect of one of the, without question, three most successful franchises of the last decade, a two-time Cup champion/perennial contender, and a guy who was right once again this past season with two personnel moves (Aebischer and Konowalchuk) that were second-guessed insufferably here on the board (with no apologies ever offered up by the critics) is "overrated"? :lol
Fantastic reply Trottier, you are bang on!!!

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Old
08-06-2004, 02:05 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
That's great. Doesn't change the fact that the Pens defense has sucked for the last 5 years and will suck for the next 5. Wow, 10 years to address the problem on the blueline? Fast work, Craig!
I don't remember their defense sucking in 1999-2000 or in 2000-2001.

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Old
08-06-2004, 02:08 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
So the two biggest feathers in CP's cap are an injury-prone, overpaid center and a guy with 2 good offensive years in the last 5 seasons? This supports my argument - nothing spectacular here.
Straka's production while in Pittsburgh
1997-98 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 75 19 23 42 28 6 2 0 2 2
1998-99 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 80 35 48 83 26 13 6 9 15 6
1999-00 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 71 20 39 59 26 11 3 9 12 10
2000-01 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 82 27 68 95 38 18 5 8 13 8
2001-02 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 13 5 4 9 0 -- -- -- -- --
2002-03 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 60 18 28 46 12 -- -- -- -- --
2003-04 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 22 4 8 12 16 -- -- -- -- --

Lang's production while in Pittsburgh
1997-98 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 51 9 13 22 14 6 0 3 3 2
1998-99 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 72 21 23 44 24 12 0 2 2 0
1999-00 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 78 23 42 65 14 11 3 3 6 0
2000-01 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 82 32 48 80 28 16 4 4 8 4
2001-02 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 62 18 32 50 16 -- -- -- -- --

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Old
08-06-2004, 02:10 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
No, he isn't. He blows goats, and was clearly out of his league last season.

He might be a good NHL coach in 5 years or so.
What has he done that was so bad?

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Old
08-06-2004, 02:14 PM
  #136
Burke's Evil Spirit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence___
What has he done that was so bad?
Finish with the worst record in the league? Fail to get the Penguins to buy into any kind of game plan until the last 15 or so games of the season? Fail to get a consistent season out of anybody not named Ryan Malone?

edit - wait, he got Kelly Buchberger to consistently not score all year, my bad :lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by spence__
I don't remember their defense sucking in 1999-2000 or in 2000-2001.
I do.


Last edited by Burke's Evil Spirit: 08-06-2004 at 02:17 PM.
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Old
08-06-2004, 02:16 PM
  #137
Ajacied
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
It's sucked since Zubov left, which was what, four years ago?
Try 8 years ago, BES..

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Old
08-06-2004, 02:18 PM
  #138
Burke's Evil Spirit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Try 8 years ago, BES..
Yeah, I'm on crack.

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Old
08-06-2004, 02:22 PM
  #139
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Rutherford is the worst GM in the NHL right now, outside of Mike Milbury, who is the biggest moron ever, having cheated Islanders fans out of one of the most talented young teams in the league. I don't even understand how he's managed to keep his job for so long.

He always seems to squander his young talent and gets mediocrity in return: he's traded away Pronger, Giguere, 3 first round picks (including Samsonov and McLaren picks) Tanabe, Knyazev and others during his reign, and all he has to show for those prospects are Brind'Amour and Justin Williams.

He manages assets badly: he has some how managed to turn Chris Pronger into Brendan Shanahan into Primeau and Coffey into Rod Brind'Amour. That's pretty bad.

He doesn't draft particularly well.

He has no vision: he acquired Sandis Ozolinsh and Danny Markov and shipped them off within a season's time for less value than he paid for.

He gives bloated contracts out to people like Bret Hedican.

Carolina is never particularly good in the regular standings or int he playoffs, except for the 2002 run.

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Old
08-06-2004, 02:25 PM
  #140
spence___
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
I do.
What sucked about their defense in 2000-2001?

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