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UFAs / Roster Changes / Trades / Qualifying Offers 2011? Part IV

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08-30-2011, 04:37 PM
  #301
Paul4587
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I would definitely do the proposed deal. The Flyers wouldn't touch it though.

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08-30-2011, 05:28 PM
  #302
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Flyers wouldn't agree. Flyers fans would laugh you off of the board.

It's basically 1 top line wing for 2 projected top line prospects (keep in mind they were picked 2nd and 5th and both haven't done anything to dull the luster). Both of them project to be about as good as Ryan, although they are prospects and could fail. A more likely proposal would have 1 of them replaced with a B tier guy.

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08-30-2011, 05:45 PM
  #303
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I would even do DSP + Ryan for JRV + Schenn.

That would make Flyers GM scratch his head at least imo. Still probably wouldn`t be enough.

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08-31-2011, 12:45 AM
  #304
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This deal, IMO, would (and should) be a no-brainer for Murph. It would likely solve our 2nd line centre position for years and JVR will probably reach a similar level as Bobby, in terms of offensive output, during his career. I don't know if he's quite as dynamic, but he's close.

Sadly, I doubt the Flyers would make this trade. But, man, this would be very beneficial for us.

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08-31-2011, 01:23 AM
  #305
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This deal falls under the team suicide label. Right now the Ducks are hoping that the loyalty management shows the players is repaid by the players taking sweetheart deals when they hit free agency. If they deal Ryan 1 year after he took a nice deal for the team, Perry and Getzlaf will notice that and go for market value when they hit UFA. They can't afford to trade the big 3 after the promises they made to keep them here if they want to keep them in UFA IMO.

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08-31-2011, 05:06 AM
  #306
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The players know it's a business, trades happen all the time. Look at Philly dealing Richards and Carter after signing them to long term deals, they still managed to lock JVR up for some of his UFA years.

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08-31-2011, 01:42 PM
  #307
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Not arguing that. But comparing a RFA who's yet to hit >21G or >40P to a Hart winner and a top 5 >PPG center is sorta apples and oranges. Or if you do, realize the contracts are going to be at least double JVR's 4.25M, which is my point. That's an overpayment unless he hits 150% of what he's done so far. At least Bobby hit 30 goals before getting paid.

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08-31-2011, 04:17 PM
  #308
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I don't see how trading Ryan for a package that good will put Getzlaf and Perry off resigning as UFAs. The Ducks have been very loyal to both Getzlaf and Perry since they've been here, if they're going to stay at a fair price they will regardless of whether or not their line mate is still here with them.

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08-31-2011, 04:29 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
I don't see how trading Ryan for a package that good will put Getzlaf and Perry off resigning as UFAs. The Ducks have been very loyal to both Getzlaf and Perry since they've been here, if they're going to stay at a fair price they will regardless of whether or not their line mate is still here with them.
Ryan took less than he could have gotten on the market because he was assured all 3 would be kept in Anaheim. If he's shipped off a year later it tells the other two that management can't be trusted. If management can't be trusted, why give a hometown discount or sign without a NMC (which Ducks management hates). Yes it's a business, but if management shows no loyalty to the players the players will reciprocate. Free agents will also notice the lack of loyalty and likely make it even harder to attract them here without being the highest bidder.

Obviously I can't guarantee any of that but it's quite plausible.

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08-31-2011, 06:15 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Ryan took less than he could have gotten on the market because he was assured all 3 would be kept in Anaheim.
What market? He was a RFA, Anaheim had all the leverage. And I would say $5.1M was pretty fair, given that guys like Toews and Kane signed for $6M and the likes of Neal (who is worth about $2M less than Ryan IMO) signed for under $3M in the same offseason.

I also never heard he was assured all three would be kept in Anaheim either. He was quoted saying he felt more comfortable taking the 5 year deal after speaking with Perry who indicated he would probably re-sign here when his contract was up.

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08-31-2011, 06:51 PM
  #311
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What market? He was a RFA, Anaheim had all the leverage. And I would say $5.1M was pretty fair, given that guys like Toews and Kane signed for $6M and the likes of Neal (who is worth about $2M less than Ryan IMO) signed for under $3M in the same offseason.

I also never heard he was assured all three would be kept in Anaheim either. He was quoted saying he felt more comfortable taking the 5 year deal after speaking with Perry who indicated he would probably re-sign here when his contract was up.
I definitely remember him talking about speaking with Perry and Getzlaf.

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08-31-2011, 09:04 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by McMilli View Post
I definitely remember him talking about speaking with Perry and Getzlaf.
Maybe so but the other two implying they would stay is different from a personal assurance from Murray saying all three would be kept in Anaheim. If a deal like the one proposed ever came up, Murray would be stupid not to accept it.

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08-31-2011, 09:16 PM
  #313
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If a deal like the one proposed ever came up, Murray would be stupid not to accept it.
True, but I don't see what that had to do with my post.

I'd do the deal in a heartbeat, like I said earlier.

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08-31-2011, 09:40 PM
  #314
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From what I remember Ryan didn't get anything from Murray, he had talked to Getz and Perry and they had hinted that they would like to still be here for the last 2 years of Ryan's contracts.

And I don't believe Ryan really took less. He got what I felt was market.

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08-31-2011, 09:53 PM
  #315
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Ryan refused to listen to offer sheets so there's no telling.He wanted a 3 year deal and Murray talked him into 5. Based on what players like Leino got this year it probably isn't market value any more all of 1 year into the deal. Unless you feel Sharp is a much better player than Ryan?

I still think when management says take less to stay here and players do, they may look at management that talked their buddies into the same deal and then pitched them to the curb and not be quite so committed to the team next time. Why wouldn't they? If you say "it's a business" then the players should treat it as such and go to a team that has money to burn. 2 way street.

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08-31-2011, 10:31 PM
  #316
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Pitch them to the curb?

All I have to say is if anything, Philly pitched their guys to the curb. And it didn't hurt them with JVR. Even if he didn't sign with a discount, he wasn't afraid to sign for a long term.

One way or another, one of those 3 is going to be gone. Too much money and too much talent tied into one line on a team with too little budget.

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08-31-2011, 11:17 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
Pitch them to the curb?

All I have to say is if anything, Philly pitched their guys to the curb. And it didn't hurt them with JVR. Even if he didn't sign with a discount, he wasn't afraid to sign for a long term.

One way or another, one of those 3 is going to be gone. Too much money and too much talent tied into one line on a team with too little budget.
How is trading Bobby 1 year after he took a 5 year contract he didn't want to sign not exactly the same thing Philly did? Also, a rookie yet to crest 21G and 40P is sorta a different situation than Getzlaf and Perry as far as the money involved.....

None of the big 3 will be traded until the new CBA. Their production can't be replaced at anything close to what they are being paid, and if the new CBA fixes the cap, floor, and/or profit sharing to fix the runaway salaries they may well not need to be traded. And Samueli has to be smart enough to know that attendance will plunge under 11-12k if the stars are sold off and we become a Columbus.

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09-01-2011, 02:47 AM
  #318
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Trading Ryan for quality depth could absolutely replace his production for the same salary. Especially if part of the package involved picking up someone who could put up 50+ points on an ELC. We already have two stars in Getzlaf and Perry, not like Columbus who has only ever had Nash. Right now we're too top heavy and we don't have the budget to get quality guys for the second and third lines.

I hope the CBA can be fixed so that teams like Anaheim can dip into the free agent market again to fill needs. We've been re tooling and waiting for guys on ELCs to come in and take up spots in our top 6 for seemingly forever (thanks to the subpar drafts in '06 and '07) and now that we're finally getting young guys close to stepping in, Getzlaf and Perry's contracts are almost up and their raises are going to take up even more of the cap than before.

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09-01-2011, 07:34 AM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
How is trading Bobby 1 year after he took a 5 year contract he didn't want to sign not exactly the same thing Philly did? Also, a rookie yet to crest 21G and 40P is sorta a different situation than Getzlaf and Perry as far as the money involved.....

None of the big 3 will be traded until the new CBA. Their production can't be replaced at anything close to what they are being paid, and if the new CBA fixes the cap, floor, and/or profit sharing to fix the runaway salaries they may well not need to be traded. And Samueli has to be smart enough to know that attendance will plunge under 11-12k if the stars are sold off and we become a Columbus.
It is what Philly did, that's my point. Philly did it and it didn't hurt them. Although 1 year into a 5 year contract with no NTC is less "painful" than 1 year into a 11 or 12 year contract with NTC/NMCs that would kick in in the future. Bryz was happy to sign a long contract as well.

Going further around the league, Tampa traded Boyle soon after they signed his contract, and they had no problems with Stamkos. SJ traded Setoguchi immediately after signing his contract, and they managed to get Couture signed for what's viewed as a bargain as well as Burns.

I agree with you that it's good as a general rule for a team to show loyalty since it can lead to reciprocity. But looking around the league, it doesn't seem like trading players is seen as "disloyal" and something the players should take offense at. Now IF Murray did explicitly promise Ryan (and by extension Getz/Perry) that he'd keep them together then I agree that it would hurt us. I just don't believe that such a promise was made, explicitly or implicitly.


I also agree that I don't think any of the big 3 will be traded prior to the new CBA. But not for that reason. They wouldn't be traded because of Getzlaf/Perry's contract status. If a trade happens due to budget reasons, the window would start in the 2012 offseason, with 1 year left in their contracts. And it wouldn't have to be Bobby, it is possible Getz or Perry are let go (and possibly even just let go as an UFA instead of a trade). In fact I will go so far as to predict that one of the 3 will be off the team for the 2013-2014 season.

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09-01-2011, 12:39 PM
  #320
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Ryan Johnson, training camp invite Detroit.

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09-01-2011, 01:29 PM
  #321
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Ryan Johnson, training camp invite Detroit.
Quote:
Nearly a month into the 2009–10 season, Johnson was involved in a head-first collision into the end boards in a game against the Detroit Red Wings on October 27, 2009. After chipping the puck into the offensive zone, Johnson lost his balance trying to skate around Detroit defenceman Nicklas Lidstrom and slid heavily into the boards with his shoulder and neck. He was taken off the ice in a stretcher after laying motionless on the ice for several moments.[6] After missing five games with a concussion, he was later sidelined for 12 games in January 2010 with a broken foot.
via Wiki

Imo nothing more than 13-14.th forward for them and ''veteran'' presence for their prospects in camp.

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09-04-2011, 05:51 PM
  #322
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What is your future down the middle? How about a Bailey for Sbisa deal?

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09-04-2011, 06:33 PM
  #323
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What is your future down the middle? How about a Bailey for Sbisa deal?
I'd have to say no to that one. If anything was ever drastic enough, we could play Ryan at center. So, moving Sbisa for Bailey wouldn't make a lot of sense in my mind. Sbisa is coming into his own and playing like the player we wanted him to be. His extension could be a bargain by the time his contract is up as well, so it doesn't seem like any kind of deal could be formed around the two in my opinion.

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09-04-2011, 07:26 PM
  #324
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Not gonna give up a future 1st pair defender for a future 2nd line center.

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09-04-2011, 07:33 PM
  #325
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I would consider Sbisa for Bailey. There would need to be pieces added from either side to even it out though. Holland is the only guy we have right now who has the potential to be a good 2nd line centre.

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