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Ducks - Jets ("the Bobby")

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Old
07-18-2011, 12:30 AM
  #26
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Very cautiously say no thanks if I'm Murray, and as a new Jets fan, I say hell no. Vast overpayment.

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Old
07-18-2011, 12:43 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Blockbuster...


E. Kane
A. Burmistrov
Z. Bogosian


:thrashers
B. Ryan
F. Beauchemin
R. Rakell (2011 1st)


Anaheim gets a promising young centerman in Burmistrov to take over 2nd line duties after Koivu. Kane can help fill some of the void Ryan leaves. Bogosian is an excellent young RH defenseman that could use a change of scenery and will slot in well with Fowler.

Winnipeg gets the new face of their franchise in Bobby Ryan. A solid top 4 cup winning defenseman that can log big minutes and make up for the loss of Bogo. They also receive and extremely young talented 2way player who raised from obscurity bursting on to the scene in the WJC. Rakell stepped up in a big way filling a huge void for Sweden when Landeskog went down with injury...


Have at it....
for me I don't see the ducks doing the deal. Bogosian's value depends on who you are talking to. Some people can make a good case he is getting pushed over to the bust catagory quickly and is need of change of place. Both Kane and Burn are developing and where they will top out is unknown. Ryan is the best player in the deal--he has topped 30+ goals twice and can dominate the dot and run the game.

I know people are saying that the jets don't do it--but Ryan is a more known quantity and for me neither kane nor burn will end up in his catagory

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Old
07-18-2011, 12:45 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by mikew2375 View Post
Bobby Ryan is the most overrated player in the league. I wouldn't trade a half eaten Snickers bar for him.
The same Bobby Ryan who would of been 2nd in scoring for LA last season?

Bobby Ryan overrated?

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Old
07-18-2011, 12:45 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by TheStig View Post
for me I don't see the ducks doing the deal. Bogosian's value depends on who you are talking to. Some people can make a good case he is getting pushed over to the bust catagory quickly and is need of change of place. Both Kane and Burn are developing and where they will top out is unknown. Ryan is the best player in the deal--he has topped 30+ goals twice and can dominate the dot and run the game.

I know people are saying that the jets don't do it--but Ryan is a more known quantity and for me neither kane nor burn will end up in his catagory
30+ goals 3x in his first 3 seasons can't let you sell him short! lol

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Old
07-18-2011, 12:46 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
30+ goals 3x in his first 3 seasons can't let you sell him short! lol
Only Silver for Ryan

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Old
07-18-2011, 12:47 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStig View Post
for me I don't see the ducks doing the deal. Bogosian's value depends on who you are talking to. Some people can make a good case he is getting pushed over to the bust catagory quickly and is need of change of place. Both Kane and Burn are developing and where they will top out is unknown. Ryan is the best player in the deal--he has topped 30+ goals twice and can dominate the dot and run the game.

I know people are saying that the jets don't do it--but Ryan is a more known quantity and for me neither kane nor burn will end up in his catagory
Agreed, for me it doesn't make the Ducks better now. We can afford to wait for people like Holland, Palmieri and Etem to step into our 2nd line.

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Old
07-18-2011, 12:47 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Sevenfold View Post
Only Silver for Ryan
terrible just terrible! lol

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Old
07-18-2011, 12:50 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
How do people come up with these sort of ideas? What GM in their right mind would trade their 1st round picks from 2008, 2009, and 2010 for anything less than a bonafide superstar? Bobby Ryan is good but Winnipeg gets absolutely railroaded in this deal by a long shot.
Not to mention all were top 10 picks during those years (3rd, 4th and 8th)

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07-18-2011, 01:00 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
Not to mention all were top 10 picks during those years (3rd, 4th and 8th)
I don't dispute the fact that people may agree or disagree with the proposal but regardless of where the players are/were taken should have zero baring on a trade. Certain players develop differently and players can become busts.

Like stated above. Some consider Bogosian a bust already(I disagree).. Plenty of players outside of the top 10 become better players than those taken before them..

I think Jets fans don't like the deal because they see their 3 young promising kids in the deal which is understandable however none of them are Ryan's caliber as of now. I think the 3 Jets players will be very solid players in the near future but don't see them reaching Ryan's level. Beauchemin is better than Bogo right now but this obviously is a premature statement and when you add in recently drafted 1st rounder I don't see the deal being as lopsided as Jets fans see it. The Ducks are losing the best player in the deal and it's not close..

I can understand the no but to say it's terrible is questionable in my eyes..

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Old
07-18-2011, 01:07 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
I don't dispute the fact that people may agree or disagree with the proposal but regardless of where the players are/were taken should have zero baring on a trade. Certain players develop differently and players can become busts.

Like stated above. Some consider Bogosian a bust already(I disagree).. Plenty of players outside of the top 10 become better players than those taken before them..

I think Jets fans don't like the deal because they see their 3 young promising kids in the deal which is understandable however none of them are Ryan's caliber as of now. I think the 3 Jets players will be very solid players in the near future but don't see them reaching Ryan's level. Beauchemin is better than Bogo right now but this obviously is a premature statement and when you add in recently drafted 1st rounder I don't see the deal being as lopsided as Jets fans see it. The Ducks are losing the best player in the deal and it's not close..

I can understand the no but to say it's terrible is questionable in my eyes..
I think that Ryan is the best player in the deal but I don't think that the rest of the package from the Ducks makes up for the three players. Beauchemin isn't great outside of Anaheim; I'm a leafs fan and he was no good on that team. Rackell may be good but who knows.

Winnipeg management has said many times they want to build from within and with youth, and the players they give up in this proposal is doing the exact opposite of that.

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Old
07-18-2011, 01:09 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
3 loonies for a Toonie and 2 quarters.
Great analogy.

Really does apply here.

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Old
07-18-2011, 01:29 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
I don't dispute the fact that people may agree or disagree with the proposal but regardless of where the players are/were taken should have zero baring on a trade. Certain players develop differently and players can become busts.


I was just making reference to the 3 1st round picks the other poster had mentioned. These were 3 of our last 4 1st rounders, which all happen to be in the top 10 and each is under 20 years old. It's too early to say any are busts or will not develop into good players.

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Old
07-18-2011, 01:34 AM
  #38
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That would be a great trade if wpg throws in Little or Wheeler and Bogo. The ducks could add a 2th round pick

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Old
07-18-2011, 01:54 AM
  #39
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I don't understand how Ducks fans are saying Jets fans should take this. Bogo is not close to "bust" territory IMO. Just was a bad fit in the system and was rushed into the NHL.

Jets fans wouldn't do it. Ryan is becoming an amazing player, but you can't trade Burmistrov and Kane at this point in their development. You have no certainty of what they're going to progress into but if they stay on the same trajectory they're going to be great NHL players.

Bogo may be let go, but at his age, I'd give him another shot since his value isn't at it's highest right now.

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Old
07-18-2011, 01:58 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post
That would be a great trade if wpg throws in Little or Wheeler and Bogo. The ducks could add a 2th round pick
What ?? So

E. Kane
A. Burmistrov
Z. Bogosian
B. Little / B. Wheeler

for

B. Ryan
F. Beauchemin
R. Rakell (2011 1st)
2nd rounder


That is absolutely awful. The proposal was bad to begin with and you're making it worse.

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Old
07-18-2011, 02:02 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
I don't understand how Ducks fans are saying Jets fans should take this. Bogo is not close to "bust" territory IMO. Just was a bad fit in the system and was rushed into the NHL.

Jets fans wouldn't do it. Ryan is becoming an amazing player, but you can't trade Burmistrov and Kane at this point in their development. You have no certainty of what they're going to progress into but if they stay on the same trajectory they're going to be great NHL players.

Bogo may be let go, but at his age, I'd give him another shot since his value isn't at it's highest right now.
I don't think any Ducks fans said Jets should take this deal.

Hypothetically speaking.. If Kane and Burmistrov don't improve/plateau for whatever reason they will never be worth Ryan. It's high risk high reward..

What it comes down to is how you view proven vs potential. Most people around these boards take the later which doesn't always work out. Just saying.

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Old
07-18-2011, 02:09 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by fightingbooya View Post
I will ignore the last quote of the first paragraph, because Ryan isn't in the same paragraph as the other two players. However people need to remember 1 very big thing when trading for one of the Jet's "name" players. This is a team that just relocated and is in need of household names that they can market to the fans.
Uh, no. The Jets don't need any star players to market the club right now. The rink is sold out for years and interest in the team righ now wouldn't or couldnt be higher. And Bobby Ryan isn't enough of a name player, anyways, being American and playing on a team few Canadians watch. The Jets would only be interested in pure hockey deals, and this one just doesn't make sense.

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07-18-2011, 02:29 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
3 loonies for a Toonie and 2 quarters.
That's a great analogy; it works here, however it wouldn't always work. For example, 200 nickels (7th round picks) wouldn't get you a $10 (Sidney Crosby, let's say). I prefer to think of a player's value in terms of diamonds; of course the bigger the better, but a whole diamond is worth more than fragments equaling it is mass.

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07-18-2011, 02:31 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
How do people come up with these sort of ideas? What GM in their right mind would trade their 1st round picks from 2008, 2009, and 2010 for anything less than a bonafide superstar? Bobby Ryan is good but Winnipeg gets absolutely railroaded in this deal by a long shot.
Toronto (almost) did that with the Phil Kessel deal - the Bruins got picks #2 & #32 in 2010 + #9 in 2011, and Kessel is not a superstar in the least. He's a star, but not a superstar.

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Old
07-18-2011, 02:40 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Just out of curiosity.. What makes you think Kane will be better than Ryan? People seem to forget Ryan was a 2nd overall pick. Ryan is one of only 3 current players to score more than 30 goals in each of his first 3 season. Ovechkin and Malkin being the others....

I obviously like Kane and think he's good and will get better which is why I included him in the deal however to just say he will be better than Ryan is not true IMO.
Ryan also spent 3 years in the minors and became a regular at age 21. If more top picks waited until that age to start playing it wouldn't be that much of an elite group.

I gotta agree with the Peggers here though, Kane was a 4th overall pick himself that made the league immediately, I wouldn't be surprised if by the time he hits 21 (starting next season) he's a 30 goal scorer on par with Ryan. Considering that the deal would also give up a developing 3rd overall dman for a veteran expiring contract, and a promising top 10 drafted center for a guy taken 30th overall this summer, that would be a very bad move to accomplish what is likely little more than jumping ahead a few years in Kane's development.

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Old
07-18-2011, 02:55 AM
  #46
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Ryan also spent 3 years in the minors and became a regular at age 21. If more top picks waited until that age to start playing it wouldn't be that much of an elite group.

I gotta agree with the Peggers here though, Kane was a 4th overall pick himself that made the league immediately, I wouldn't be surprised if by the time he hits 21 (starting next season) he's a 30 goal scorer on par with Ryan. Considering that the deal would also give up a developing 3rd overall dman for a veteran expiring contract, and a promising top 10 drafted center for a guy taken 30th overall this summer, that would be a very bad move to accomplish what is likely little more than jumping ahead a few years in Kane's development.
Making the league immediately doesn't mean too much.. Sure you have to have skills but different teams and openings create opportunities. Atlanta = struggling franchise needing immediate help and wanted to draw excitement and sell tickets. Anaheim on the other hand was coming off a Stanley Cup finals appearance and didn't need Ryan to step right in. With the exception of Fowler (Ducks need of defense) they've always tended to the slow route instead of rushing players like many others. Hell recently acquired Andrew Cogliano played immediately and posted great numbers as a rookie however 4 years later he's yet to reach those numbers again and has somewhat plateaued. He was the Oilers next big thing when he broke onto the scene.

Fact of the matter is you never know where a players potential will take them. You have the proven commodity in Ryan vs the untapped potential of the others.. Either way Jets fans don't seem to like the deal so be it...

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Old
07-18-2011, 04:34 AM
  #47
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And then the ducks win the cup 2 years later.

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Old
07-18-2011, 04:46 AM
  #48
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No way in hell the Jets gut their team for 1 player who isn't even a superstar. Ryan is a 30 goal scorer lol.

They could probably get Stamkos for that package.

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Old
07-18-2011, 05:31 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by CAPSLOCK REBEL View Post
No way in hell the Jets gut their team for 1 player who isn't even a superstar. Ryan is a 30 goal scorer lol.

They could probably get Stamkos for that package.
Ryan will pot 40 goals minimum when he gets on the first PP unit, 4th in the league for ES points, should get at least 15-20 more points on the PP as well.

Ryan is just unlucky that the likes of Perry and Selanne are ahead of him atm, he'll be a 90 point player once Teemu retires.

Ryan may not be a big name, but he's one of the best ES scorers in the league, he'll only get better as he gets a bigger role on the PP.

To be little Ryan is just silly.

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Old
07-18-2011, 06:01 AM
  #50
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Obviously Bobby Ryan is the best player in the deal but still Winnipeg doesn't do this. Kane, Burmistov and Bogosian are 3 of their best young players, no way do they deal them.

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