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Ryan also spent 3 years in the minors and became a regular at age 21. If more top picks waited until that age to start playing it wouldn't be that much of an elite group.
You cant hold it against him that the Ducks developed him properly in the minors. He was a 2nd overall pick and came into the perfect situation because the Ducks were a contender so he could take his time.
Make all the excuses you want but stats are stats and thats a pretty elite club to be a part of.
You cant hold it against him that the Ducks developed him properly in the minors. He was a 2nd overall pick and came into the perfect situation because the Ducks were a contender so he could take his time.
Make all the excuses you want but stats are stats and thats a pretty elite club to be a part of.
I'm not holding that against him. The statement was that Ryan is grouped with Malkin and Ovechkin in scoring 30+ goals in their first 3 full seasons (cause Ryan played a partial year before so gotta exclude that), which is kind of ridiculous because Ovechkin/Malkin were scoring way beyond that with more like 50 goals/100 points, and Ryan came in to the league at a much later age. If you change the criteria to 3 consecutive 30 goal seasons after at most age 21, where Ryan started, then the list grows substantially: E.Staal/Kovalchuk/Kessel to name a few.
So basically what I'm saying is trying to put Ryan in a category with Malkin and Ovechkin is crap, and you guys doing so are sounding like Leaf fans . It's a meaningless footnote that doesn't add anything to the discussion of Ryan's trade value.
Just out of curiosity.. What makes you think Kane will be better than Ryan? People seem to forget Ryan was a 2nd overall pick. Ryan is one of only 3 current players to score more than 30 goals in each of his first 3 season. Ovechkin and Malkin being the others....
I obviously like Kane and think he's good and will get better which is why I included him in the deal however to just say he will be better than Ryan is not true IMO.
For one Kane isn't even 20 yet. He also has the draft pedigree, as he went 4th overall in a year that had its share of elite forwards (when he went behind only Tavares, Hedman and Duchenne). He's got year's left in him and he was in the NHL a lot earlier than Ryan (although I wouldn't be opposed to someone arguing that was a mistake).
Power Forwards generally take a long time to develop. You should know as much with Ryan as it took him a solid 3 years to even get to the NHL. Kane still has lots of time to develop and hasn't shown anything to indicate he is doing anything but progressing. I can't see Atlanta trading him away. The poster was right when he said Kane could very well be better than Ryan. More than likely he will be around the same level but there isn't any reason to make that trade. Ryan just isn't worth giving up Burmistrov (who has shown significant potential on his own) and Kane for him when Kane will likely be a similar player and Burmistrov is being groomed as one of their top 2 centers.
For one Kane isn't even 20 yet. He also has the draft pedigree, as he went 4th overall in a year that had its share of elite forwards (when he went behind only Tavares, Hedman and Duchenne). He's got year's left in him and he was in the NHL a lot earlier than Ryan (although I wouldn't be opposed to someone arguing that was a mistake).
Power Forwards generally take a long time to develop. You should know as much with Ryan as it took him a solid 3 years to even get to the NHL. Kane still has lots of time to develop and hasn't shown anything to indicate he is doing anything but progressing. I can't see Atlanta trading him away. The poster was right when he said Kane could very well be better than Ryan. More than likely he will be around the same level but there isn't any reason to make that trade. Ryan just isn't worth giving up Burmistrov (who has shown significant potential on his own) and Kane for him when Kane will likely be a similar player and Burmistrov is being groomed as one of their top 2 centers.
Just about the draft thing, you do know Ryan went 2nd overall, only behind a certain Crosby.
Just about the draft thing, you do know Ryan went 2nd overall, only behind a certain Crosby.
Of course I do, but using that as a justification for him is weak. I was doing the same thing. Players picked before a player don't make that player any more or less talented. Draft pedigree can be a useless argument for a player.
I'm just saying that Kane has does nothing to justify being traded. It doesn't make sense when his upside is that of Ryan's. He may not reach that but Ryan might have already hit his top game. There isn't any reason for Winnipeg to make this trade.
Just about the draft thing, you do know Ryan went 2nd overall, only behind a certain Crosby.
Yeah but he could've easily gone 3rd or 4th, as there was no consensus 2nd overall in that draft. Kane went 4th and Bogonsian 3rd, not too mention Burmistrov went 8th. I don't get your point.
Of course I do, but using that as a justification for him is weak. I was doing the same thing. Players picked before a player don't make that player any more or less talented. Draft pedigree can be a useless argument for a player.
I'm just saying that Kane has does nothing to justify being traded. It doesn't make sense when his upside is that of Ryan's. He may not reach that but Ryan might have already hit his top game. There isn't any reason for Winnipeg to make this trade.
I agree, it seems stupid that you think that argument is stupid though and you do the exact same thing.
If this was Kane for Ryan straight up Winnipeg takes it and run. I agree that this deal isn't good for Winnipeg though. I doubt Ryan has hit his top game either, people forget he doesn't see nearly as much PP time as the likes of Teemu, Getzy or Pears, I'd expect over a PPG from him when he gets on that top unit.
Obviously not a good deal for Winnipeg as it stands, and personally I want no part of Bogo.
Though tbf, this is similar to the sort of overpayment it would take to get Ryan, but I don't think Winnipeg is a team that really wants Ryan right now.
Yeah but he could've easily gone 3rd or 4th, as there was no consensus 2nd overall in that draft. Kane went 4th and Bogonsian 3rd, not too mention Burmistrov went 8th. I don't get your point.
If Beauchemin was Sbisa for example I think the value would be closer. I doubt Winnipeg has any interest in trading their young defenseman for a defenseman in his prime. They need the youth and the Ducks need the players in their prime ATM.
I agree, it seems stupid that you think that argument is stupid though and you do the exact same thing.
If this was Kane for Ryan straight up Winnipeg takes it and run. I agree that this deal isn't good for Winnipeg though. I doubt Ryan has hit his top game either, people forget he doesn't see nearly as much PP time as the likes of Teemu, Getzy or Pears, I'd expect over a PPG from him when he gets on that top unit.
Obviously not a good deal for Winnipeg as it stands, and personally I want no part of Bogo.
Though tbf, this is similar to the sort of overpayment it would take to get Ryan, but I don't think Winnipeg is a team that really wants Ryan right now.
Props for calling me on it.
I agree, on a player to player basis, Ryan for Kane favors Winnipeg. I just don't that trade makes any sense for them.
I agree that Ryan would need overpayment to move, which is probably why he won't move.
I'm not holding that against him. The statement was that Ryan is grouped with Malkin and Ovechkin in scoring 30+ goals in their first 3 full seasons (cause Ryan played a partial year before so gotta exclude that), which is kind of ridiculous because Ovechkin/Malkin were scoring way beyond that with more like 50 goals/100 points, and Ryan came in to the league at a much later age. If you change the criteria to 3 consecutive 30 goal seasons after at most age 21, where Ryan started, then the list grows substantially: E.Staal/Kovalchuk/Kessel to name a few.
So basically what I'm saying is trying to put Ryan in a category with Malkin and Ovechkin is crap, and you guys doing so are sounding like Leaf fans . It's a meaningless footnote that doesn't add anything to the discussion of Ryan's trade value.
I agree, Ryan is not on the same level as Ovechkin or Malkin, but much of your argument is incorrect. You do realize that Malkin's never reached the 50 goal plateau before right? In fact, he's had one 47 goal season and his next highest total after that is 35. So saying he's a 50 goal/100 point player is not correct. Also, Ryan didn't come into the league at a much later age, unless you're considering 1 year as a much later age? Ryan became a full-time player at the age of 21, while both Ovechkin and Malkin became full-time players at the ages of 20.
Eh put E.Kaner next to Getzlaf/Perry and around Selanne/Koivu and he gets Ryan's numbers. Anaheim fanboys will get their panties in a bunch, but it's true.
Peter Harrold is actually worth less than a half eaten Snickers bar. So I might trade him for Ryan. But would send Ryan to Manchester immediately haha.
To which he would need to go on waivers and becomes an Edmonton Oiler! I like this guy! ^^^^
I agree, Ryan is not on the same level as Ovechkin or Malkin, but much of your argument is incorrect. You do realize that Malkin's never reached the 50 goal plateau before right? In fact, he's had one 47 goal season and his next highest total after that is 35. So saying he's a 50 goal/100 point player is not correct. Also, Ryan didn't come into the league at a much later age, unless you're considering 1 year as a much later age? Ryan became a full-time player at the age of 21, while both Ovechkin and Malkin became full-time players at the ages of 20.
Just a side note, but both Ovechkin and Malkin couldn't have started their careers at an earlier age because 2005 was the lockout. Malkin still had a contract in Russia to ditch also.
Just a side note, but both Ovechkin and Malkin couldn't have started their careers at an earlier age because 2005 was the lockout. Malkin still had a contract in Russia to ditch also.
Oh, I understand all of that...and like I also said, both Malkin and Ovechkin are on a higher level than Ryan...but for him to say, "Ryan came in to the league at a much later age" is simply false.
No way in hell the Jets gut their team for 1 player who isn't even a superstar. Ryan is a 30 goal scorer lol.
They could probably get Stamkos for that package.
Ryan is a 30 goal scorer who isn't getting time on the 1st PP unit. Of the players who scored more goals than Bobby Ryan this season every one of them had more PPG goals to their name.
I'm not going to say that Ryan is a future 50 goal scorer and 90 to 100-point player as soon as he starts getting time on the 1st PP unit. But I will point out that he scored 34 goals this season, and only 5 of them were on the PP(the 2nd unit). Consider that Anaheim had one of the best PP units in the league. How much of a stretch do you really think it is for that number to double, at a minimum?
And, for the record, the Jets get hosed in the OP deal. With all the young talent coming Anaheim's way, I don't see why they wouldn't want Sbisa or Fowler coming back their way. Perhaps Schultz or Vatanen, depending on Winnipeg's needs. Either way, the Ducks just aren't giving up enough. This deal would gut Winnipeg's young depth.
so winnipeg gives up their 2nd and 4th best forwards, both of which are 19, and a young defenseman that has tremendous physical ability and great potential if he can get his head straight. i know they're getting a great player back in ryan, along with a good prospect and a solid d-man, but that's just too much to give up at once.
kane could and should easily end up being better than ryan. bogosian, despite his struggles, should be a solid 2nd pairing d-man with proper coaching this season, and burmistrov is too valuable considering the jets' lack of defensive depth.
this trade doesn't make winnipeg better enough in the short term to make up for the huge risk it is long term.
. It's a meaningless footnote that doesn't add anything to the discussion of Ryan's trade value.
