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Old
07-18-2011, 03:07 PM
  #76
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Edler > Staal

That said, Staal is a great defenseman.

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07-18-2011, 03:09 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
I agree. I proposed this in the Canucks forums and got **** on because they thought it was overpayment:

Hodgson, Raymond, Schneider & Tanev for Benn.
I can't see Dallas saying yes to this. Not only are you splitting up Benn's value into a bunch of lesser parts (Raymond is injured, noone is taking him right now). It doesn't address a need for Dallas. Dallas is looking for top line potential with the departure of Richards. They don't need depth. Their goalie situation is taken care of for the next two years.

Benn is a big body that is quickly turning into a potential franchise centre and PPG player. I don't think you realize just how rare that is.

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07-18-2011, 03:11 PM
  #78
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Really? Is that why Marc Staal is considered one of the BEST shutdown defenseman in the game, who adds more offense than you think and you will see that this year, along with being an all-star. Sorry was Edler in the all-star game? Congrads to whatever he WOULD have gotten if he stayed healthy but lets also not forget he plays for the TOP offensive team in the league with one of the best PP's.

Give it up, Marc Staal is BETTER than A. Edler. Please stop. We would love to have Edler but the fact is, we have Mcdonagh, Sauer and Erixon who we will gladly take our time and see what they can become. If anything, after this season when Mcdonaugh, Erixon, and Sauer establish themselves more firmly and mature more, they may push Girardi out of a spot and we could use him along with other peices to acquire the player we are missing.

Thanks but Edler is not necessary for Dubinsky. Like we said before and for the last time, it would be Dubinsky + for Kesler
Absolutely not. I'm a Vancouver fan that lives in NY so I see a lot of NY hockey - that's why Dubinsky, Callahan, and Anisimov are some of my favorite players - and Stall just does not have the passing ability and offensive mind that Edler has. Edler is capable of approaching elite play in all areas. He is still 24 and has already arguably matched Doughty and Keith in their playoff series. I actually would not trade him for Dubinsky or Callahan.

That isn't a knock on any of the rangers, just Edler is really, really good.

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Old
07-18-2011, 03:16 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post


Pretty sure Vancouver isn't an average team and Hamhuis is not better than Edler.
Edler wasn't even on your top pairing. Hamhuis and Bieksa were. (I know Edler is waaaaaay better than Bieksa). Bottom line is, with Hamhuis and no Edler, the Nucks win. With Edler and no Hamhuis, well...

Vancouver's strength in D was not that they had an over-powering top guy (Chara, Keith) or top pairing (Suter-Weber), but that thet had four guys that were solid-to-excellent #2-3's, in Hamhuis, Edler, Ehrhoff, and Bieksa. Im not saying he's not a good player. But taken out of the context of having a great supporting top 4, I'd rather have Staal than Edler.

For example, the Sharks D. They didnt have the deep taleny the Nucks had. But they had to rely on one top guy (Boyle). Now, if I had to take out Boyle and replace him with one other guy and expect that guy to lead the Sharks D, I take Staal every time over Edler. Edler is not a top 10 guy in the league. He's for sure a top 20, but Staal is a top 15 and Edler isn't.

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07-18-2011, 03:17 PM
  #80
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Let me just put it this way, and if you disagree so be it, but I'd rather my team's defense depend on Marc Staal than on Alex Edler. I'd feel uncomfortable with Edler as my #1. He is a #1 on an average team, but he is not a #1 on a Cup winning team. (And before we get into that argument, Hamhuis is better).
Would you feel comfortable with Marc Staal running your #1 PP unit? Because to me, a #1 is a guy that plays and excels in all situations and leads the defense in icetime. Due to both players skillsets I think it's safe to say Edler is better suited to fill in on both special teams and play big minutes 5 on 5.

The Canucks have the luxury of using Hamhuis on the shutdown pairing and using Edler in a more offensive role with the Sedins but that doesn't mean he can't handle tougher minutes - it's just not in the best interest of the team.

Eastern fans obviously aren't as high on Edler as fans in the West and that's understandable. Opposing fans were saying Canuck fans grossly overrated Ryan Kesler before this past season - that subsided once he got more exposure. We're going to see the same thing next year with Edler IMO - he's on the cusp of stardom...

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07-18-2011, 03:35 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Benn is a big body that is quickly turning into a potential franchise centre and PPG player. I don't think you realize just how rare that is.
Trust me, I totally realize how special Benn is going to be. Which is why i'd give virtually anything to get the guy. I agree with you though that my proposal does have quantity over quality.

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07-18-2011, 03:46 PM
  #82
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Interesting proposal from Gordon McIntyre of the Vancouver Province suggests a deal with the New York Islanders might make sense:
Lol. Yeah, the isles are going to give up a 30 goal scorer on a great contract for an overpaid 3 pair dman and a prospect just so they can get 1 mil closer to the cap floor.

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07-18-2011, 03:59 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
?????
He's taking that to mean that you think his team is wonderful.

And just to conclude, Edler got the fourth highest QualComp on his team, behind Hamhuis, Bieksa, and Ehrhoff, had the second highest offensive zone starts on his team behind only Ehrhoff. He played almost all of his PK time with Ehrhoff, which I'll take to mean "Second Unit". He had significantly less hits than Bieksa, who played in the same arena with the same scorers. And yet he had the second highest goals against per 60 minutes on the ice of any of Vancouver's D-men behind only Ehrhoff.

Edler played easy minutes (PP1, EV2, PK2) with a quality partner. This does not make him a top ten D-man in the league or even close to a Norris candidate.

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07-18-2011, 04:02 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
He's taking that to mean that you think his team is wonderful.

And just to conclude, Edler got the fourth highest QualComp on his team, behind Hamhuis, Bieksa, and Ehrhoff, had the second highest offensive zone starts on his team behind only Ehrhoff. He played almost all of his PK time with Ehrhoff, which I'll take to mean "Second Unit". He had significantly less hits than Bieksa, who played in the same arena with the same scorers. And yet he had the second highest goals against per 60 minutes on the ice of any of Vancouver's D-men behind only Ehrhoff.

Edler played easy minutes (PP1, EV2, PK2) with a quality partner. This does not make him a top ten D-man in the league or even close to a Norris candidate.
I hate the Nucks because Bertuzzi was responsible for injuries to Jackman and MacInnis.

Back on topic, Edler is the best defenseman on the Canucks and IMO is on an even level with Staal.

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07-18-2011, 04:04 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Ana: Ryan for Edler, Hodgson, 2nd
Bos: Lucic - Unavailable, think Kesler going back for them to listen.

Buf: Boyes for Alberts/Rome, 1st
Dal: Benn - Unavailable after trading Neil.
Edm: Hemsky for Tanev, 1st, 2nd -or- Hodgson, 1st
Nas: Hornqvist - Unavailable. Same team needs.
NYI: ???
NYR: Dubinsky/Callahan - Unavailable. Based on previous threads, Kesler would need to be going back.
STL: Backes for Edler
Was: ???
Win: Kane - Unavailable.

Not saying either franchise would do these, but this is a vague idea of value.
Anaheim would also want Kesler back to even listen.

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07-18-2011, 04:08 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
Edler wasn't even on your top pairing. Hamhuis and Bieksa were. (I know Edler is waaaaaay better than Bieksa). Bottom line is, with Hamhuis and no Edler, the Nucks win. With Edler and no Hamhuis, well...

Vancouver's strength in D was not that they had an over-powering top guy (Chara, Keith) or top pairing (Suter-Weber), but that thet had four guys that were solid-to-excellent #2-3's, in Hamhuis, Edler, Ehrhoff, and Bieksa. Im not saying he's not a good player. But taken out of the context of having a great supporting top 4, I'd rather have Staal than Edler.

For example, the Sharks D. They didnt have the deep taleny the Nucks had. But they had to rely on one top guy (Boyle). Now, if I had to take out Boyle and replace him with one other guy and expect that guy to lead the Sharks D, I take Staal every time over Edler. Edler is not a top 10 guy in the league. He's for sure a top 20, but Staal is a top 15 and Edler isn't.
Edler wasn't on our top pairing? We didn't play with a top pairing, we rolled them because we had so much depth. When you have Salo and Ballard on your 3rd pairing, you can do that. Edler led all Canuck defensemen in ice time, and by all accounts he's our #1 dman. He plays, and plays well, in all situations. I consider Staal to be closer to Hamhuis' level than Edler's. A 30 point guy who is great defensively. Edler though has a much higher ceiling than that, and is already better than that.

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07-18-2011, 04:22 PM
  #87
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Edler wasn't on our top pairing? We didn't play with a top pairing, we rolled them because we had so much depth. When you have Salo and Ballard on your 3rd pairing, you can do that. Edler led all Canuck defensemen in ice time, and by all accounts he's our #1 dman. He plays, and plays well, in all situations. I consider Staal to be closer to Hamhuis' level than Edler's. A 30 point guy who is great defensively. Edler though has a much higher ceiling than that, and is already better than that.
Did I mention QualComps? Zone starts? My point is, Edler got easier minutes on the Nucks; Hamhuis and Bieksa were responsible for shutting down the opposition's top lines. Edler was allowed to dominate lesser competition the way one of Boyle or Burns will on the Sharks this year.

It's FANTASTIC that you guys have so much depth, that is great for your team. And there are many teams that would welcome Edler as their #1 (off the top of my head, ANA, DAL, STL (debatable with Pietrangelo), CBJ, EDM, MIN, COL (debatable with EJ), CGY, NYI, NJD, OTT, TOR, CAR, FLA = 15 teams). But the bottom line is that he is not a top-10 guy in the league like many Nucks fans say. He is not better than Staal. I'd take him over Staal on the PP, but not EV or SH.

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07-18-2011, 04:23 PM
  #88
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Also, I guarantee that the Canucks WILL NOT GET any of Ryan, Lucic, Benn, Okposo, Dubinsky, Callahan, Backes or Kane.
man you're really going out on a limb here

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07-18-2011, 04:24 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
He's taking that to mean that you think his team is wonderful.

And just to conclude, Edler got the fourth highest QualComp on his team, behind Hamhuis, Bieksa, and Ehrhoff, had the second highest offensive zone starts on his team behind only Ehrhoff. He played almost all of his PK time with Ehrhoff, which I'll take to mean "Second Unit". He had significantly less hits than Bieksa, who played in the same arena with the same scorers. And yet he had the second highest goals against per 60 minutes on the ice of any of Vancouver's D-men behind only Ehrhoff.

Edler played easy minutes (PP1, EV2, PK2) with a quality partner. This does not make him a top ten D-man in the league or even close to a Norris candidate.
And Ryan Kesler didn't play the toughest minutes up front, Malhotra did. Does that mean the runaway winner for the Selke trophy was undeserving?

No, it means the Canucks put their players in the best possible position to succeed and set their matchups accordingly. Edler is the best offensive defenseman on the team so he was in charge of QB'ing the PP - it was the league's best. He also was used with Ehrhoff and the Sedins 5 on 5 for the most part - that 5 man unit was one of the NHL's best...

Alex Edler is what Dion Phaneuf was supposed to be.

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07-18-2011, 04:36 PM
  #90
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And Ryan Kesler didn't play the toughest minutes up front, Malhotra did. Does that mean the runaway winner for the Selke trophy was undeserving?

No, it means the Canucks put their players in the best possible position to succeed and set their matchups accordingly. Edler is the best offensive defenseman on the team so he was in charge of QB'ing the PP - it was the league's best. He also was used with Ehrhoff and the Sedins 5 on 5 for the most part - that 5 man unit was one of the NHL's best...

Alex Edler is what Dion Phaneuf was supposed to be.
Exactly. This argument is like comparing Suter vs. Weber. Many Nashville fans say Suter is the better dman, as he plays defense better. But the more attractive dman league wide is Weber because he is more balanced and can play in all situations. While ignoring individual skill levels as part of the comparison, Edler is more like Weber and Staal is more like Suter. Who is BETTER is in the eye of the beholder, but they are both very good. I'd take the more versatile Weber over Suter, just as I'd take Edler over Staal. I wouldn't want Staal running my powerplay, and Edler isn't drastically worse than him defensively either.

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07-18-2011, 04:39 PM
  #91
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Wow! Talk about a massive overstatement of almost every single one of those listed player's abilities and value to their team!

Edler, Kesler, Hodgson, and a 1st for Ryan? Kesler, by himself, is better than Ryan. Dubinsky for a top 15 defenseman/future top 10 defenseman? What? A top ranked offensive prospect, a future top four defenseman, a future star goaltender, and a 50-60pts-per-year top six winger for Jamie Benn?

Wow...


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07-18-2011, 04:53 PM
  #92
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Wow! Talk about a massive overstatement of almost every single one of those listed player's abilities and value to their team!

Edler, Kesler, Hodgson, and a 1st for Ryan? Kesler, by himself, is better than Ryan. Dubinsky for a top 15 defenseman/future top 10 defenseman? What? A top ranked offensive prospect, a future top four defenseman, a future star goaltender, and a 50-60pts-per-year top six winger for Jamie Benn?

Wow...
No one is saying any of those things, except for the Benn thing, and that's because after trading Neal they cannot trade Benn.

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07-18-2011, 04:57 PM
  #93
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Exactly. This argument is like comparing Suter vs. Weber. Many Nashville fans say Suter is the better dman, as he plays defense better. But the more attractive dman league wide is Weber because he is more balanced and can play in all situations. While ignoring individual skill levels as part of the comparison, Edler is more like Weber and Staal is more like Suter. Who is BETTER is in the eye of the beholder, but they are both very good. I'd take the more versatile Weber over Suter, just as I'd take Edler over Staal. I wouldn't want Staal running my powerplay, and Edler isn't drastically worse than him defensively either.
Okay, this I can agree on. I like the Weber-Edler/Suter-Staal analogy. How bout we agree that thet have similar talent level and that which one any given team would take is solely based on need, and en this dumb argument. Both are fantastic young defensemen.

But for the record, I'd take Suter over Weber.

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07-18-2011, 04:58 PM
  #94
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Schneider, Samuelsson, 2nd for Hemsky.

Oilers get a number one goalie, veteran to bell mentor young guys, and a pick.
There's 3-4 teams that would make a better offer then this, also the kids already of the mentor in Sutton. I also don't think ST would be cruel to Hemsky and trade him to Vancouver.

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07-18-2011, 05:03 PM
  #95
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THis qualcomp thing is bogus.

Edler was on the 2nd unit PP almost all year, Ehrhoff and Samuelsson played the point on the #1 unit.

Marc Staal was on the all star team because of his last name.

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07-18-2011, 05:06 PM
  #96
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Okay, this I can agree on. I like the Weber-Edler/Suter-Staal analogy. How bout we agree that thet have similar talent level and that which one any given team would take is solely based on need, and en this dumb argument. Both are fantastic young defensemen.

But for the record, I'd take Suter over Weber.
I didnt like luck6's analogy at all.

Suter has the more diverse skillset, Vancouver fans and Canadians like Weber more because he is Canadian and huge.

Suter on a team like Pittsbugh, Chicago, Vancouver etc is a 60+ point guy. Not a comparable to Marc Staal

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07-18-2011, 05:07 PM
  #97
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THis qualcomp thing is bogus.

Edler was on the 2nd unit PP almost all year, Ehrhoff and Samuelsson played the point on the #1 unit.

Marc Staal was on the all star team because of his last name.
"This QualComp thing is bogus"?

I guess you're one of those guys who either doesn't understand it or only uses it when it benefits him.

And stop this argument. Luck and I had just resolved it.

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07-18-2011, 05:10 PM
  #98
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I didnt like luck6's analogy at all.

Suter has the more diverse skillset, Vancouver fans and Canadians like Weber more because he is Canadian and huge.

Suter on a team like Pittsbugh, Chicago, Vancouver etc is a 60+ point guy. Not a comparable to Marc Staal
It's not like Staal is swimming in offensive talents surrounding him... He's playing with Dan Girardi, while Edler played with the Twins and Ehrhoff.

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07-18-2011, 05:10 PM
  #99
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"This QualComp thing is bogus"?

I guess you're one of those guys who either doesn't understand it or only uses it when it benefits him.

And stop this argument. Luck and I had just resolved it.
Its wrong, I watched every single Canucks game this year.

Ehrhoff and Samuelsson were the point men on the #1 unit. It's fact.

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07-18-2011, 05:12 PM
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Its wrong, I watched every single Canucks game this year.

Ehrhoff and Samuelsson were the point men on the #1 unit. It's fact.
Oh, okay, I get what you're talking about, the PP. QualComp has literally nothing to do with the PP. I forgot hat Sammy played point and just saw that Edler got the second most PP time of Vancouver's DEFENSEMEN. That one it my bad.

But the rest of the Advanced Stats are spot on.

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