Actually, I took the general tone of the OP and subsequent posts to be basically wanting to augment what the Isles have built through the draft, adding a piece or two where the Isles have a clear hole. I didn't take it for desperation at all.
Some folks seem to look at building a team as though there are only two ways to build it: buy it via free agency or trading prospects for 30+ year old veterans, or do *nothing* but draft, draft, draft. The thing is there's a middle ground that most teams actually use.
The Isles, I think, are at the point where they've got a strong enough core of youngsters that adding a couple of key veterans (not due to desperation, but because of a couple of glaring holes in the line up) could be the difference between another lottery finish, and this young Isles team getting a taste of what playoff hockey is all about. And in the short AND long term, I think the latter is a lot more important for the development of the Isles' youngsters than the former is.
im kinda two sided on the big name signing or trade
in a way it can be good for publicity and this team needs some good publicity
if the player is good enough he can create an impact on here we havent seen in a while
but when you look at the rags and all the big names they have had...it just doesnt work out
i think when you have a core like we do who have went through ahl and buillding this team up they may get insulted when a big name comes around and may make them feel less than which is horrible for our young kids!
this core building is perfect for us its only been a couple of years, and when you think about how long it took the dynasty isles to build, u gotta believe were gonna get there some day soon
biggest thing for us right now is having a solid goalie, the d is very good as is and there are plenty of future stars in our system and the offensive is gonna explode, i feel as soon as this year...get us a great goalie or a dp from his all star n olympic year n we got a great chance
ROME WASNT BUILT IN A DAY...Be patient all our time is coming soon!
I'm not sure who can be had for what. What I am sure of is that there has to be a team who has a young Def who is on the bubble for starting in the NHL (think Grabner). Which team is the deepest at Def but could use Off? That's the Isles trade partner. Someone who can contribute and is further along then the young D in the Isles system.
But, it's so easy to fill in blanks with shiny teenagers and then call them awesome.
Its easier to fill in blanks with big shiny names with big paychecks.
I'm not opposed to bringing in talent from outside the organization. But the type of attitude that is exhibited by many on this board is exactly the attitude that leads to Peca and Yashin (I hate to harp on it but its true). Its the attitude that you have to do something. You are not looking necessarily for the right move, you are looking to make a move. A move should only be done if it will be to one's advantage, therefore it shouldn't happen often because you have 29 other competent GMs playing the same game. Florida absolutely **** the bed this summer because their GM panicked and thought to himself he had to make a move and moves he made.
Also, I think culture is an important part of a team. You build culture by grooming it and you groom it from an early age. Guys that grow up and bond together will fight for each other. You all know that. I'm sure you guys have brothers (literally and figuratively) that you have known forever that you would give a left nut for. There are more guys like that, that i have known forever, than ones I have known for only a couple of years.
If you keep bringing guys in from the outside you build a mercenary culture.
Its the attitude that you have to do something. You are not looking necessarily for the right move, you are looking to make a move.
Not me, boyo. I want the team to make a good move... but, make no mistake, this team has major issues and the thought of kids from freakin' next year's draft addressing those boggles my mind.
Forget the "big name" or the "move to make a move" stuff. I think most people just want something reasonable to make the team better in 2011.
Its easier to fill in blanks with big shiny names with big paychecks.
I'm not opposed to bringing in talent from outside the organization. But the type of attitude that is exhibited by many on this board is exactly the attitude that leads to Peca and Yashin (I hate to harp on it but its true). Its the attitude that you have to do something. You are not looking necessarily for the right move, you are looking to make a move. A move should only be done if it will be to one's advantage, therefore it shouldn't happen often because you have 29 other competent GMs playing the same game. Florida absolutely **** the bed this summer because their GM panicked and thought to himself he had to make a move and moves he made.
I agree with your thought here, but sometimes you have glaring needs which need addressing. One defensively solid top 4 defenseman with sand, and specifically one wing for Tavares, are now pressing needs for the continued growth of the club - not for a cup - but for growth. Maybe that's what many are seeing too, and voicing.
I agree with your thought here, but sometimes you have glaring needs which need addressing. One defensively solid top 4 defenseman with sand, and specifically one wing for Tavares, are now pressing needs for the continued growth of the club - not for a cup - but for growth. Maybe that's what many are seeing too, and voicing.
we had both...chara for our solid defense and if we drafted parise we wld have our solid winger...ughhhh ******* milbury!! and dont forget having luongo in goal ughhhhhh!!!!!
I just looked at the 2012 possible free agent list, and besides Ryan Suter, there really isn't much available in regards to core defensemen. If Snow is serious about landing one, it's going to have to happen via trade. And i don't see him waiting for 2013 to come around.
So maybe the Doughty talk is a possibility after all...
The Kings can match any Offer sheet sent Drew's way. They have about 9m in cap space with everyone signed but Drew. Moller is Euro bound, Harrold did not get a contract offer.
If need be they can ship out Stoll to free up 3m more(Replaced by an Entry level contract=Loki). Drew is going no where.
The NYI could offer a Max cap hit Contract, and it would get matched with ease from the Kings. Cause next year 12m more comes off the books for them. The Kings are sitting good cap wise.
All it takes is 2 minutes looking at capgeek. And people would realize that the Kings can match anything.
Last edited by damacles1156: 07-19-2011 at 12:14 AM.
The Kings can match any Offer sheet sent Drew's way. They have about 8m in cap space with everyone signed but Drew.
If need be they can ship out Stoll to free up 3m more. Drew is going no where.
This.
While possible, offer sheets are rare for a reason man because usually it's for someone a franchise cannot afford to let go. While I'd love for Doughty or Stamkos to be in an Islanders uniform it's just not realistic. I'm all for trading for a top 4 dman I just don't see the team making a deal for Doughty as it would be matched or it would be a kings ranson (pun intended).
I agree with your thought here, but sometimes you have glaring needs which need addressing. One defensively solid top 4 defenseman with sand, and specifically one wing for Tavares, are now pressing needs for the continued growth of the club - not for a cup - but for growth. Maybe that's what many are seeing too, and voicing.
Great point about continued growth. I'm not expecting miracles, but I do expect the team to challenge for a playoff spot. The Isles need to prove that they are turning the corner and a lot of questions need to be answered. Will JT take the next step to stardom? How will Streit come back? Bailey, Okposo, DP, Hamonic, etc. Will August 1st pass? Next season will be the real indicator if this team is going to be a contender or a pretender.
As for the top 4 defender we need, it's going to take some time and I don't expect any news until mid-August. After all the RFA's are signed and the arbitration cases are done, Snow should have a better read on the players available. I really like the idea of trading for Wideman from the Caps. He only has 1 year left at about $4M and could be had cheap with Washington being over the cap and 8 defenseman signed for next year. Wisniewski v.2.0
He'd put us over the cap floor and he has ability. RH shot who could be dynamite with Streit on the PP. Worst case scenario, we unload him at the trade deadline for something. I've watched him when he was with the Bruins and I always liked him, thought he was underrated.
While possible, offer sheets are rare for a reason man because usually it's for someone a franchise cannot afford to let go. While I'd love for Doughty or Stamkos to be in an Islanders uniform it's just not realistic. I'm all for trading for a top 4 dman I just don't see the team making a deal for Doughty as it would be matched or it would be a kings ranson (pun intended).
Even if the NYI offered a Max Cap hit Contract. It would get matched, The Kings have 12m Coming off the Books (Six players) next season. Three of those Six have no shot in getting resigned.
Last edited by damacles1156: 07-19-2011 at 12:32 AM.
Yakopuv would be terrific but this team needs to set its eyes on playoffs and to do so, they need a top 4 defenseman.
If we are targeting anyone in next year's (so God help us) it will be one of the defensive studs in what is the best crop of defenseman we've seen come through in a long time.
Actually, I took the general tone of the OP and subsequent posts to be basically wanting to augment what the Isles have built through the draft, adding a piece or two where the Isles have a clear hole. I didn't take it for desperation at all.
Some folks seem to look at building a team as though there are only two ways to build it: buy it via free agency or trading prospects for 30+ year old veterans, or do *nothing* but draft, draft, draft. The thing is there's a middle ground that most teams actually use.
The Isles, I think, are at the point where they've got a strong enough core of youngsters that adding a couple of key veterans (not due to desperation, but because of a couple of glaring holes in the line up) could be the difference between another lottery finish, and this young Isles team getting a taste of what playoff hockey is all about. And in the short AND long term, I think the latter is a lot more important for the development of the Isles' youngsters than the former is.
And this is why some of us old school fans bang our heads on the ground.
Absolutist reaction to the status quo, whether it's we're drafting forever and going nowhere or we'll go nowhere if we start trading players and abandon the draft PLAN Snow has.
MEANWHILE, we traded some key young guys and got vets to build the Dynasty teams. OLD GUYS (over 25) were KEY to shaping the young guys in the mid seventies. The idea used to be to get the RIGHT guys for the RIGHT reasons and build through smart drafting, trading and assembling and developing prospects.
So we have posters angry we might get Yashin or this guy or that guy or trade young pups for Doughty or whoever.
The only thing that matters is the WHOLE being better after the move then before.
Hypothetically, if we brought in everyone's most hated guy (Yashin) and he replaced Parenteau and made Tavares' line stronger by a mile, wouldn't Parenteau's goal scoring ability beat Hunter's on line 4? Or if we brought in a top four and traded Nelson and Bailey, what would it do long term for Hamonic, MacDonald, our goalie kids......would it help?
The idea is to be better tomorrow than yesterday and to have long term future cared for as well. What if we made some players better with an imported veteran with skill even if it was a one or two year stint? Not long term, not a solution, but the carryover would benefit us in the improvement of the long term assets affected?
Well, I'll say flat out I'd like Yashin with Bailey and Comeau (Yashin being wing unless Bailey needs a nudge to perform), maybe even replacing Parenteau. I'd like better but it ain't happening. It'll be a nice joke unless it works and we're in the playoffs and Tavares numbers improve a lot.
But for the sake of the discussion, I will include any key vet who will help us improve. THUS, I think Snow will sign someone of the sort once we know how much we need to get to the floor. And I would hope we can use some assets to get better in the playoff race by deadline. It goes against the build-through-draft dogma, but it also gets us into the playoffs.
Which helps make a case for a new building being built for once and for all.
i would absolutely LOVE to add a few players to our current roster, BUT, they would have to compliment our team. PLEASE... no moves, just to appease the 'angry mob'.
if Snow can improve the organization, buy whatever means possible, then i hope he does. if he cannot find a way to improve our team, in a manner that doesn't make us weaker overall, then i say stick to drafting as a means to build.
im kinda two sided on the big name signing or trade
in a way it can be good for publicity and this team needs some good publicity
if the player is good enough he can create an impact on here we havent seen in a while
but when you look at the rags and all the big names they have had...it just doesnt work out
i think when you have a core like we do who have went through ahl and buillding this team up they may get insulted when a big name comes around and may make them feel less than which is horrible for our young kids!
this core building is perfect for us its only been a couple of years, and when you think about how long it took the dynasty isles to build, u gotta believe were gonna get there some day soon
biggest thing for us right now is having a solid goalie, the d is very good as is and there are plenty of future stars in our system and the offensive is gonna explode, i feel as soon as this year...get us a great goalie or a dp from his all star n olympic year n we got a great chance
ROME WASNT BUILT IN A DAY...Be patient all our time is coming soon!
i agree with the sentiment in your post--i do not want to make a trade if it wrecks the core--(although everyone IMO is tradeable minus Tavares for the right player)
however the islanders won their first playoff round in 1975, just 3 years after being born--so, no it didnt take them that long to rebuild
And this is why some of us old school fans bang our heads on the ground.
Absolutist reaction to the status quo, whether it's we're drafting forever and going nowhere or we'll go nowhere if we start trading players and abandon the draft PLAN Snow has.
MEANWHILE, we traded some key young guys and got vets to build the Dynasty teams. OLD GUYS (over 25) were KEY to shaping the young guys in the mid seventies. The idea used to be to get the RIGHT guys for the RIGHT reasons and build through smart drafting, trading and assembling and developing prospects.
So we have posters angry we might get Yashin or this guy or that guy or trade young pups for Doughty or whoever.
The only thing that matters is the WHOLE being better after the move then before.
Hypothetically, if we brought in everyone's most hated guy (Yashin) and he replaced Parenteau and made Tavares' line stronger by a mile, wouldn't Parenteau's goal scoring ability beat Hunter's on line 4? Or if we brought in a top four and traded Nelson and Bailey, what would it do long term for Hamonic, MacDonald, our goalie kids......would it help?
The idea is to be better tomorrow than yesterday and to have long term future cared for as well. What if we made some players better with an imported veteran with skill even if it was a one or two year stint? Not long term, not a solution, but the carryover would benefit us in the improvement of the long term assets affected?
Well, I'll say flat out I'd like Yashin with Bailey and Comeau (Yashin being wing unless Bailey needs a nudge to perform), maybe even replacing Parenteau. I'd like better but it ain't happening. It'll be a nice joke unless it works and we're in the playoffs and Tavares numbers improve a lot.
But for the sake of the discussion, I will include any key vet who will help us improve. THUS, I think Snow will sign someone of the sort once we know how much we need to get to the floor. And I would hope we can use some assets to get better in the playoff race by deadline. It goes against the build-through-draft dogma, but it also gets us into the playoffs.
Which helps make a case for a new building being built for once and for all.
Just pretend we want to win.
Great post, especially the bold. Not 100% sure I would want Yashin, but if he did play on Tavares' wing and that line was better, how could someone complain? I definitely think this team needs another top 4 dman (as do most people) and that should be Garth's first priority, IMO. I'm sure it is as seen by the attempt at Ehrhoff. Trading off some assets will of course be necessary, but I hope Garth doesn't go overboard. He has shown no indication of that so in all honestly I'm not too concerned about us mortgaging our future for a "quick fix".
I really believe that Garth is going to do something just days before the 8/1 vote, IMO, trying to get people excited going into that day. Or, at least I think that is what I would do. Get people talking about the Islanders, get on the back pages for a few days leading up to the vote, get fans excited. How big this move will be is debatable, but I'm pretty sure he will do something before 8/1.
BTW, OlTimeHockey, are you the poster-formerly-known-as-Trottier? Sometimes I'll be reading your posts, like that last one in this thread, and honestly think I'm reading Trots' posts.
I really believe that Garth is going to do something just days before the 8/1 vote, IMO, trying to get people excited going into that day. Or, at least I think that is what I would do. Get people talking about the Islanders, get on the back pages for a few days leading up to the vote, get fans excited. How big this move will be is debatable, but I'm pretty sure he will do something before 8/1.
BTW, OlTimeHockey, are you the poster-formerly-known-as-Trottier? Sometimes I'll be reading your posts, like that last one in this thread, and honestly think I'm reading Trots' posts.
Trottier would NEVER advocate bringing Yashin back.
And why oh why does it always come back to Yashin?
i would absolutely LOVE to add a few players to our current roster, BUT, they would have to compliment our team. PLEASE... no moves, just to appease the 'angry mob'.
if Snow can improve the organization, buy whatever means possible, then i hope he does. if he cannot find a way to improve our team, in a manner that doesn't make us weaker overall, then i say stick to drafting as a means to build.
sometimes the best move...is none at all...
Not picking on you rikker, I mean this with the utmost respect. Has Garth ever done a move to appease the 'angry mob'?
I agree with mostly everything else you wrote though.
Snow is not a legendary GM, I will give you that. But in his time, the only moves he seems to make are ones that will benefit the team. In my opinion, he has his eye on the development of the current team as well as an eye to the future.
