HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Kevin Lowe

View Poll Results: Is Kevin Lowe overrated as a GM?
Yes 20 18.18%
No 90 81.82%
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-02-2004, 10:53 PM
  #1
Narnia
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Narnia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,394
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Narnia
Kevin Lowe

There's an argument in the NHL forum and most everyone is saying Kevin Lowe is overrated. I need help. Help me defend Lowe over there.

__________________
"He just ate up Robyn Regehr for dinner, a spectacular play by Hemsky, and Robyn Regehr has got doo doo all over his face" - Rod Phillips call on Hemsky's goal vs the Flames
Narnia is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 10:54 PM
  #2
Cujo_31
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 688
vCash: 500
No he's not overrated, if anything, I think he's underrated

Cujo_31 is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:01 PM
  #3
speeds
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: St.Albert
Posts: 6,823
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
There's an argument in the NHL forum and most everyone is saying Kevin Lowe is overrated. I need help. Help me defend Lowe over there.
why?

How isn't he over-rated?

speeds is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:06 PM
  #4
USC Trojans
I have a plan.
 
USC Trojans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: LA Oiler fan
Posts: 11,710
vCash: 500
considering the cards that he was dealt over the past few years, he's doing a pretty good job.

He's not one of the best, but he's not bad either.

USC Trojans is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:08 PM
  #5
Narnia
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Narnia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,394
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Narnia
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
why?

How isn't he over-rated?
Because he's constantly criticized. He gets blamed for things Slats did. Someone once mentioned that Lowe is running a mediocre team for 9 years. They're adding the last 5 years of Slats and blaming it on Lowe.

Narnia is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:11 PM
  #6
speeds
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: St.Albert
Posts: 6,823
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Because he's constantly criticized. He gets blamed for things Slats did. Someone once mentioned that Lowe is running a mediocre team for 9 years. They're adding the last 5 years of Slats and blaming it on Lowe.
well, I'll try and avoid this discussion again, but I'm not sure where you have this idea that Lowe is being persecuted. If anything, he's treated as gently as any GM in the NHL

speeds is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:14 PM
  #7
Cujo_31
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 688
vCash: 500
how is he overrated?
Doug Weight trade in the end brought us Reasoner, Stoll, + Deslauriers

Niinimaa + 2nd for Torres (20 goal scorer last season) + Isbister, has the size and potential, just needs to be injury-free and break out.


Billy Guerin for Anson Carter who then got turned into Dvorak. yeah, i'd rather have Billy Guerin, but economics wouldn't allow that, and Dvorak is pretty decent and seems to love Edmonton, so all things considered, a good deal.

Poti + Murray for Mike York + 4th rounder. a STEAL for Edmonton, York's a versatile forward, and was our MVP, up until he got injured.

Traded Roman Hamrlik for Eric Brewer, Josh Green and 2nd round selection (Brad Winchester)

Mike Comrie for 1st round pick (Robbie Schremp), Jeff Woywitka + 3rd round pick in 2005.



from the get-go, he said he was building this team for post-2004, he's done one helluva job IMHO. if, as expected, the playing field is even, meaning a good financial system where all 30 teams can compete, we'll be in great shape once the next season kicks off, whenever that may be.

Cujo_31 is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:15 PM
  #8
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
 
guymez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,753
vCash: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
There's an argument in the NHL forum and most everyone is saying Kevin Lowe is overrated. I need help. Help me defend Lowe over there.
Not having read the thread, I can't imagine how someone could justify that Lowe is overrated. It would be interesting to see how someone could back up a statement like that. Considering his mandate from the owners group, I think Lowe has done a fine job. It would be interesting to see what Lowe could do if the financial shackles were taken off, or at least loosened.

guymez is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:22 PM
  #9
Narnia
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Narnia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,394
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Narnia
Quote:
Originally Posted by guymez
Not having read the thread, I can't imagine how someone could justify that Lowe is overrated. It would be interesting to see how someone could back up a statement like that. Considering his mandate from the owners group, I think Lowe has done a fine job. It would be interesting to see what Lowe could do if the financial shackles were taken off, or at least loosened.
It was I believe started by a Flames fan. It seems they say GMs are overrated of teams they hate. That's the feeling I get. Here's the link.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=95232

I don't get how Low can be overrated and Sutter one of the best. IMO, it's Sutter who's overrated. How can Sutter after 1 year be one of the best GMs and Lowe overrated.

Narnia is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:23 PM
  #10
Lowetide
Registered User
 
Lowetide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,281
vCash: 500
Well, I've said this before but I'll chime in again. imo Lowe is slightly better than average overall, with areas of great strength (PR, this guy could run the gun registry and smell like a rose, seems to be able to identify a useful defenseman at midnight in a snowstorm and he has left the scouting staff alone I believe) and areas of weakness (he should be banned from contract negotiations or shoot the guy who does it, his trade record is uneven and he has a ridiculous problem addressing weak areas on the team. GET A FRICKING CENTER!).

Based on his reputation, then yes imo he's overrated because the performance doesn't warrant the glory. However, that farm system has been replenished nicely and that was the most important job he had coming in.

Lowetide is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:24 PM
  #11
zamboni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,531
vCash: 500
Look on the bright side: it gave me a new idea for an avatar.

zamboni is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:34 PM
  #12
se7en*
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 3,737
vCash: 500
How can he be overrated when everyone critisizes him?

se7en* is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:36 PM
  #13
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
his trade record is uneven and he has a ridiculous problem addressing weak areas on the team. GET A FRICKING CENTER!).
I never get this one... if the object is to build, why waste resources when you aren't ready and don't need to?

It's not like the Oilers were one piece away from the prize and Lowe never acted (cough Vancouver/Ottawa cough)... unless you can pick up a guy for next to nothing (i.e. Nedved), I don't really see the point of a team tossing prospects away for some immediate help, especially a team that isn't really ready to compete for the cup.

When the team is ready for some serious competetiveness, then I understand being critical for your GM not identifying a visible weakness...

__________________
TheSpecialist - MacT thinks he was that good of a hockey player when in actuality he was no better then a Louie Debrusk.
dawgbone is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:39 PM
  #14
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
 
guymez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,753
vCash: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
his trade record is uneven and he has a ridiculous problem addressing weak areas on the team. GET A FRICKING CENTER!).

I think finances played a major role last season in trying to aquire a 1st/2nd line center.

Quote:
Based on his reputation, then yes imo he's overrated because the performance doesn't warrant the glory.
What do you mean by "based on his reputation"? Are you saying that Lowe has a glorious reputation as a GM? I am not sure I agree with that.

Quote:
However, that farm system has been replenished nicely and that was the most important job he had coming in.
So, in spite of accomplishing ( in your words ) the most important job, he is still falling short as being considered a good GM?

guymez is offline  
Old
08-02-2004, 11:58 PM
  #15
Allan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton
Country: United Nations
Posts: 1,405
vCash: 500
I've always had the impression that he is generally regarded as a fairly average GM, who is doing pretty well considering that he is new and considering what he has been given to work with. Since that is also how I see him, I don't think he is overrated. If people out there are saying that he is doing an amazing job, (which, aside from a few hardcore homers out there, I have not heard) I would have to rethink that vote.

Allan is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 12:05 AM
  #16
xerburt
Registered User
 
xerburt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: vancouver
Posts: 346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by guymez
So, in spite of accomplishing ( in your words ) the most important job, he is still falling short as being considered a good GM?
I think a key thing to point out here is that being overrated does not equate to being a bad GM.

I personally feel that Kevin Lowe is overrated - especially by local fans and even media. For the most part, Lowe's strong history with the organization has resulted in him being held to high regard as a GM, but probably for the wrong reasons. I think many fans do see him as the saviour of the organization and (some) blindly trust in his being able to bring it back to lofty heights.

I think one thing that's indicative to me of Lowe being overrated is the fact that he was named as assistant GM to Team Canada so shortly into his tenure as GM of the Oilers. At the time of his appointment, Lowe had all of what, one (?) year of experience as a manager with his own club, and yet, he was deemed good enough to help manage the team of an entire country? Yes, he's a bright hockey mind, but I think it's arguable that there were plenty of bright hockey minds at the time available for the job with proven experience in managing a club.

That said, I think Lowe has done a good job for the Oilers and for Team Canada. I would even say he is an above average GM. At the same time, I wouldn't argue that he is not overrated.

xerburt is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 12:08 AM
  #17
Slats432
Registered User
 
Slats432's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,454
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Well, I've said this before but I'll chime in again. imo Lowe is slightly better than average overall, with areas of great strength (PR, this guy could run the gun registry and smell like a rose, seems to be able to identify a useful defenseman at midnight in a snowstorm and he has left the scouting staff alone I believe) and areas of weakness (he should be banned from contract negotiations or shoot the guy who does it, his trade record is uneven and he has a ridiculous problem addressing weak areas on the team. GET A FRICKING CENTER!).

Based on his reputation, then yes imo he's overrated because the performance doesn't warrant the glory. However, that farm system has been replenished nicely and that was the most important job he had coming in.
Lowetide's post says it all. I agree that Lowe doesn't deserve any accollades because he hasn't really done anything to warrant a pat on the back and a hearty atta boy.

I would say that he is a decent GM overall, there are tons worse. He puts too much faith in the "Good Ol Boys", and his ability to address areas of weakness hasn't been his greatest asset. Sometimes it seems like he is too stubborn for his own good and pride can make him unmaluable and unwilling to adapt to situations. (Mike Comrie, Tommy Salo come to mind)

On the plus side, if I had to mention one GM in the NHL that wears his team's logo on his sleeve, it is K-Lo. He has absolute trust of the people that work for him and the people he works for(the fans).

He does have the ability to make good trades and assess areas of talent, and seems to have a good idea of the direction of the team. Sadly at this point he hasn't been rewarded with any on ice success.

The Oilers' fans blank check is what makes him seem overrated. I can see how other team's fans say "What the heck is so good about this guy?" But to know him is to love him.

Slats432 is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 12:15 AM
  #18
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
 
guymez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,753
vCash: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
It was I believe started by a Flames fan. It seems they say GMs are overrated of teams they hate. That's the feeling I get. Here's the link.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=95232

I don't get how Low can be overrated and Sutter one of the best. IMO, it's Sutter who's overrated. How can Sutter after 1 year be one of the best GMs and Lowe overrated.
I think that thread has some inherent flaws. It is not a level playing field, with drafting possibly being the exception. I mean its more obvious when a GM is "bad" because has all the financial means and still makes more bad trades than good. This is in spite of the fact that he has more opportunity ( due to the increased pool of players he has to pick from ). A GM with financial restraints has a much tougher job IMO. He has a much smaller pool of players to choose from, and yet he is still expected to "pull a rabbit out of his hat".
Also, even though the thread was started by a Flamer, IMO Sutter is out GM'ing Lowe. ( so far)
Similar budgets ( compared to the Oil )and he did pull a rabbit out of his hat with Kiprusoff, and strengthened the team with Warrener, Simon and Neminin ( sp?).
Sutter was the main reason Calgary made the playoffs. Something Lowe wasn't able to do. This dosn't make Lowe a bad GM. Sutter just did a great job last season. We will see how he does next year because his job just got a whole lot tougher.

guymez is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 12:22 AM
  #19
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
 
guymez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,753
vCash: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by xerburt
I think a key thing to point out here is that being overrated does not equate to being a bad GM.
I think Lowtides quote was "slightly better than average". At the risk of splitting hairs, I just didn't consider that to mean good.

guymez is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 08:19 AM
  #20
Lowetide
Registered User
 
Lowetide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by guymez
So, in spite of accomplishing ( in your words ) the most important job, he is still falling short as being considered a good GM?
Well, I guess it depends on your definition of "falling short". I think he's probably a 7/10 or 7.5/10 and that would put him 12-15 among the NHL GM's. Maybe we could argue top 10, I have in the past but imo Lowe has just come off one of the poorest seasons an NHL GM has had since Since Abel was ruining the Red Wings.

Sutter in Calgary has a tight budget but he seemed to make the right moves. What about Wilson in San Jose? He didn't airlift Jagr to help his cause, but he does have about 10 dmen who know one knows playing at a high level. One could argue they were already in the system, but he hired a good coach and gave him the tools needed to succeed.

I think the general belief among hockey fans is that Kevin Lowe is one of the best and brightest. Based on his record, I don't think that's true. He's not quite cold soup, but he isn't Sam Pollock Jr either, although the added draft picks look alot like Pollock and maybe his stock will rise in the next few seasons.

I like the guy! I think he's doing a better than average job. But the GM's job is twofold: look down the road a piece and make sure tomorrow is covered, and give your head coach the tools to accomplish the in-season goal.

Anyone who watched the Oilers situation at center last season must wonder about Kevin Lowe's evaluation of the available assets in that area.

Right?

Lowetide is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 09:38 AM
  #21
Mr Sakich
Registered User
 
Mr Sakich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Motel 35
Posts: 8,045
vCash: 500
Lowetide, you used San Jose and Calgary as the comparables to show that Lowe has not done well. Are you aware that Calgary was in the process of losing 5-7 mill before that playoff run? That would never have been allowed to happen in Edmonton. If Sutter was in Edmonton, he would have been forced to trade some top talent and would not have been allowed to get Kiprisoff.

San Jose badly missed the playoffs the year before. If Lowe would have led his team to a 73 point regular season, he gets fired. The Sharks did not do better because of anything Wilson did, it was coaching and goaltending. They allowed 66 fewer goals than the year before. What exactly did Wilson do that led to that? What top notch goalie did he bring in? He traded away a goalie for a 2nd round pick that ended up with the best gaa in the history of the NHL, that sure looks good on your resume.

Mr Sakich is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 10:42 AM
  #22
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
 
guymez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,753
vCash: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Well, I guess it depends on your definition of "falling short". I think he's probably a 7/10 or 7.5/10 and that would put him 12-15 among the NHL GM's. Maybe we could argue top 10, I have in the past but imo Lowe has just come off one of the poorest seasons an NHL GM has had since Since Abel was ruining the Red Wings.

Sutter in Calgary has a tight budget but he seemed to make the right moves. What about Wilson in San Jose? He didn't airlift Jagr to help his cause, but he does have about 10 dmen who know one knows playing at a high level. One could argue they were already in the system, but he hired a good coach and gave him the tools needed to succeed.

I think the general belief among hockey fans is that Kevin Lowe is one of the best and brightest. Based on his record, I don't think that's true. He's not quite cold soup, but he isn't Sam Pollock Jr either, although the added draft picks look alot like Pollock and maybe his stock will rise in the next few seasons.

I like the guy! I think he's doing a better than average job. But the GM's job is twofold: look down the road a piece and make sure tomorrow is covered, and give your head coach the tools to accomplish the in-season goal.

Anyone who watched the Oilers situation at center last season must wonder about Kevin Lowe's evaluation of the available assets in that area.

Right?
Okay, okay, maybe I needed to take off my "homer" hat.
Seriously, I had no idea that Lowe was considered one of the best and brightest, and if that is true, I can see why many claim him to be overrated. Especially after reading George's post. I was reminded of the situations with Salo and Comrie and I do believe that pride distorted Lowes judgment in both cases. I remember being quite frustrated with both of thoses situations, because I felt that Lowe had dropped the ball. Hopefully he has learned from those and other situations and does a better job at addressing team weaknesses. IMO Lowe has shown an ability to learn from the past.

guymez is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 11:31 AM
  #23
dynastydays
Registered User
 
dynastydays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. John's, Newfound
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,606
vCash: 500
There are many valid points here, but I have to say Edmontons future is very bright. The immense depth we have in our system will begin to pay off in a huge way over the next 3 or 4 seasons. The difference between K-Lo and Brian Burke (who I think is the best GM over the past 5+ years bar none) is that Kevins homeruns has to be hit from his ankles, and Burkes are within the strike zone. To clarify, they have very similar hard-line attitudes, they believe in building through prospects, but Burke has hit the grand slams with bringing in Bertuzzi / Naslund / Morrisson. Guys that were projects somewhat but already priced out of Kevins committal range. Kevin has to look for the same diamonds with more risky prospects such as Isbister/Torres/Woywitka...etc.

Once these begin to pan out, and Im confident they will, we can have a more fair evaluation of K-Lo in comparison with his peers.

Plus lets not ignore the fact that not many GM's bleed the colors of their team straight from their heart. K-Lo truely loves the Oilers and that matters in my books.

dynastydays is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 12:19 PM
  #24
copperandblue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,724
vCash: 500
Too me, being a good GM is sorta like being a good goalie. You can be the cream of the crop but until you actually bring home the cup, you will never likely ever get considered in the "best of the best" group. And no, that is not suggesting that Lowe should be considered in that group right now.

I traditionally have been a bit of a Lowe appologist but I don't think that is because I don't think he can do no wrong, I believe it has more to do with the idea of not really wanting to judge him while his job is only half done or 3/4's done, as I think is the case now.

I think on a case by case basis, he is well above .500 in how his dealings have worked out. I think that his mistakes (and there have been a number of them) have not cost the organization very much when keeping an overall perspective on how the team has progressed.

I also think his job coming in was much bigger than anyone has really given him credit for. The end of the Sather era left many fans blinded to how bad a shape the organization was actually in. I think many (certainly myself) got caught drinking Sather's Kool Aid and paid way more attention to his excuses and way too little to his performance.

With NO experience, Lowe took this team from being empty of prospects, relying on one or two top end talents and a cycle of regurgitating that talent in what seemed like an impossible cycle to break and in 4 years filled the prospect cupboard, spread out the talent and created a real team for the first time in 10 years. He has also managed that while not having a real adverse effect in the standings. Yes, the team missed the playoffs a couple times but as far as regular season points go, he has managed to rebuild the organization while keeping the team as competetive as they were before. In fact, how many years do you have to go back to see 4 straight years of over .500 hockey?

Some of the critisisms I would levy towards him would be for the most part limited too some of his contracts. The Comrie situation was developing into a lose-lose proposition for him and I think he managed to do ok with it and to buck the trend, I don't have a big problem with the Salo situation. I think as a GM, Lowe made logical decisions as they came up and I put the onus of poor goaltending squarely on Salo's shoulders.

The other thing to consider is Lowe's involvment with team Canada. Wether he was brought in as a FOG or not, wether he was only an equal voice amongst a round table of good hockey people or not - Lowe was part of a group that was able to correctly assess a formula for success when provided a blank slate in assembling talent. It may seem like a slam dunk when looking over the players that Canada can choose from but as Bobby Clark prooved, nothing is a sure thing.

I would rate Lowe in the 8-12 range of NHL GM's. Definately above average and with experience I think he will only get better.

copperandblue is offline  
Old
08-03-2004, 12:28 PM
  #25
Mxpunk
Registered User
 
Mxpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: RPV, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,269
vCash: 500
I don't think Lowe is overrated or underrrated. He seems to be doing just about right for a GM who must deal with a small market team.

Mxpunk is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:49 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.