Parise scores 20 - 30 points more a year... that's a small gap? That gap would get us into playoffs. Just because we gave up alot for Kessel shouldn't make him untouchable.
that is quite a bit of our future for an admittedly very good player.
__________________ Noah Cross: 'Course I'm respectable. I'm old. Politicians, ugly buildings, and whores all get respectable if they last long enough. Timothy Fenwick Jr: Do you ever get the feeling that there's something going on that we don't know about? Boogie: If you don't have good dreams, Bagel, you got nightmares.
I think Parise is UFA next year if he signs a 1 year deal.
If he really wants to play in Toronto ... be patient.
If he doesn't he wouldn't sign long term here, making the trade a non-starter.
This is true, but I'm sure NJ wants to get something for him, eitherway. Burke is a magnet for some of these American players. Parise is half Canadian too, but it would take a sign and trade for Burke to do anything.
I heard that Parise isn't happy there though, they haven't even named a coach. I usually follow the Devils, they're my 2nd favorite team. Parise plays hard and would improve everything about this team, including attitude. I would love to have both though.
To the people adding in Kulemin, that's just crazy. Kulemin is our best player.
Go to this thread, I am getting tired of explaining Parise is a one year rental currently when I say I would not trade Kulemin for him straight up unless Parise is guaranteed to sign with the Leafs next year long term. Even some so called Leafs fans can't understand this concept.
Clarke MacArthur
Jussi Rynnas
Carl Gunnarsson
2012 2nd round pick
2012 3rd round pick
Reason being Parise was injured for pretty much the whole season, but these are assets that the Leafs can part with that would benefit New Jersey as well. MacArthur is a great LW, Rynnas helps fill the void in net once Brodeur and Hedberg are gone, Gunnarsson helps their defense and then the two picks are just parts to finish of the deal.
Go to this thread, I am getting tired of explaining Parise is a one year rental currently when I say I would not trade Kulemin for him straight up unless Parise is guaranteed to sign with the Leafs next year long term. Even some so called Leafs fans can't understand this concept.
On that thread...don't bother responding to GM17...he's just trolling Leafs fans. It's a waste of time to try to argue logically or illogically. He's just going to troll.
This is what I'd be willing to do, addressing what I think are their needs without killing our team too much.
Kulemin, Colbourne, Gardiner/Gunnarson, possibly throw in a 1st, prefer not to.
Kulemin is an NHL ready, young player with more upside and complete game.
Colbourne is a top 6 center prospect, which they could use.
Gardiner/Gunnarson address the need for mobility in their D core. Gardiner may have more PP upside, but is unproven, Gunnar is proven to be at least a solid 2way player with possibly more PP upside to him.
If they want a 1st, I'd dig around for a small return from them. Possibly a bottom 6 center prospect, maybe someone like David Wohlberg. He's likely a 4th line center with some real grit to his game.
Its not that I would move Kadri for Parise, or even Schenn, but I think these players address needs for them. I'd be fine switching Colbourne for Kadri, but be more reluctant to move the 1st. If I add Schenn, it changes everything, as IMO he holds more value then everyone but Parise in the deal.
On that thread...don't bother responding to GM17...he's just trolling Leafs fans. It's a waste of time to try to argue logically or illogically. He's just going to troll.
Thanks for the heads up, I notice there are quite a bevy of trolls outside the Leafs board. I think we have the most intelligent fanbase out there, the true leafs fans that is, but obviously there are some that disguise themselves as fans but are anything but.
Thanks for the heads up, I notice there are quite a bevy of trolls outside the Leafs board. I think we have the most intelligent fanbase out there, the true leafs fans that is, but obviously there are some that disguise themselves as fans but are anything but.
Agreed. They all seemed to misinterpret your point though. Perhaps you could've done a better job explaining it, or maybe they just have blinders on and want to rip on Leafs fans.
Kuli is the Leafs best forward in my opinion. I'd still offer him for Parise, but not much more. The knee injury really scares me though.
Therefore I can see Parise getting traded for a similar package to both players if the Devils have no other choice.
Schenn + Simmonds + 2nd FOR Mike Richards
Voracek + Courturier + Nick Cousins FOR Jeff Carter
What was the asking price for Richards from Burke? Kadri + Kulemin? That would be the absolute max I offer if it involved Kuli.
And I think centers hold more value than wingers...andddd Richards/Carter are both on long term contracts rather than potentially a 1 year deal.
It's far more risky dealing for Parise (contract uncertainty and a major knee injury) than it is for Richards/Carter. But you're probably right in that those are the kind of packages it's going to take.
Agreed. They all seemed to misinterpret your point though. Perhaps you could've done a better job explaining it, or maybe they just have blinders on and want to rip on Leafs fans.
Kuli is the Leafs best forward in my opinion. I'd still offer him for Parise, but not much more. The knee injury really scares me though.
He's a relatively small guy also, you just don't know how much wear and tear that body has endured since he plays a bigger game than his size would indicate. I'm very mindful that he may not return to form, but if he does it would be a risk a team may be willing to risk.
I highly, highly expect him to re-sign with New Jersey, he's their franchise player and Lou is good at getting deals done. Don't expect him to make it to arbitration.
With that being said, in the off chance that Lou and Parise simply cannot agree on a contract (what's their cap situation like?), and if Parise is perfectly healthy, I'd love to go after his rights, as long as there was a pre-worked-out deal with the Parise camp (similar to what we did with Kessel), for a contract that was fair for a player like Parise, but not insanely high.
Trying to stay realistic, NJ would have good LWs even without Parise (Kovalchuk and Tedenby), but strong needs at basically every other position. I think Kessel would be the center-piece, and he'd have to be paired with one or two sweeteners. Something like:
Kessel
+
one of Colborne, Gardiner, Blacker, Percy, Gunnarsson or Franson
+
one of Scrivens or Rynnas
I'm a big Parise fan, and would do the above deal (in any form, even Kessel + Colborne + Scrivens for Parise), but only just, I wouldn't want to add more, that would be more of a "final offer, hope nobody else offers better" type of deal. Again, this would only be for a healthy Parise, who is willing to re-sign on a fair but not nuts contract.
Why would you do this? Not gonna flame ya here, but plz explain...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodybr3ak
I understand that its gonna take more then we want but I think dishing out kessel for Parise is a bit of step backwards. I think it would another draft pick type deal were we hope we get the better end with having a top line that consists of the two best American snipers in the league so the devs get suck with some low 20s picks. Would anyone do our next two 1sts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blader258
Why the heck are people dangling Kessel in these ridiculous proposals. Talk about 2 steps backwards.
a) Parise is a superstar, the two seasons before his injury he was a top 10 player in the league, and he's just 26, if he's indeed fully healthy but NJ are still looking to trade him (something I seriously doubt happens), then he's going to command a GREAT return. No packages built around Kadri or MacArthur, there has to be a serious centerpiece coming back, because other teams will offer a serious centerpiece. Something like Kessel, IMO
b) From our point of view, Kessel is a talented but flawed player. Great skater, unreal shot, nice hands in general, but he's trash along the boards, trash in puck battles, plays poor defense, not exactly a "battler" type, there's just a lot of things wrong with his game. Parise is a GREAT 2-way player, great at battling for loose pucks, loves going to the danger areas, plays with a tonne of heart, plays great d, and he's better than Kessel offensively too (not more talented, but more effective). Parise, in my mind, is a MAJOR upgrade, I'm not in love with the idea of building around Kessel, but I do like the idea of building around Parise. In terms of his overall play he'd be arguably the best Leafs since Gilmour (I'm talking about "peak" type play, not career/longevity where Mats obviously wins, but a healthy Parise is a top 10 player in the league, Mats wasn't really)
c) So, I see Kessel to Parise as a MAJOR upgrade, something I'd be willing to throw in solid pieces for. The goalie (Scrivens, Rynnas or even Gustavsson) would be valuable to them (in need of young goalies), but not as much to us, we have tonnes of young goalies. It would suck to lose a good young player (like Colborne, Gardiner, Blacker, Percy, Gunnarsson or Franson), but it's a sacrifice I'd be willing to make if it meant having a stud like Parise to build around
d) Again, this would be assuming that he's perfectly healthy, and that he'd be willing to sign a decently reasonable deal, something like 7 years at $7 mil per year, front loaded, which is fair for an RFA like Parise IMO
a) Parise is a superstar, the two seasons before his injury he was a top 10 player in the league, and he's just 26, if he's indeed fully healthy but NJ are still looking to trade him (something I seriously doubt happens), then he's going to command a GREAT return. No packages built around Kadri or MacArthur, there has to be a serious centerpiece coming back, because other teams will offer a serious centerpiece. Something like Kessel, IMO
b) From our point of view, Kessel is a talented but flawed player. Great skater, unreal shot, nice hands in general, but he's trash along the boards, trash in puck battles, plays poor defense, not exactly a "battler" type, there's just a lot of things wrong with his game. Parise is a GREAT 2-way player, great at battling for loose pucks, loves going to the danger areas, plays with a tonne of heart, plays great d, and he's better than Kessel offensively too (not more talented, but more effective). Parise, in my mind, is a MAJOR upgrade, I'm not in love with the idea of building around Kessel, but I do like the idea of building around Parise. In terms of his overall play he'd be arguably the best Leafs since Gilmour (I'm talking about "peak" type play, not career/longevity where Mats obviously wins, but a healthy Parise is a top 10 player in the league, Mats wasn't really)
c) So, I see Kessel to Parise as a MAJOR upgrade, something I'd be willing to throw in solid pieces for. The goalie (Scrivens, Rynnas or even Gustavsson) would be valuable to them (in need of young goalies), but not as much to us, we have tonnes of young goalies. It would suck to lose a good young player (like Colborne, Gardiner, Blacker, Percy, Gunnarsson or Franson), but it's a sacrifice I'd be willing to make if it meant having a stud like Parise to build around
d) Again, this would be assuming that he's perfectly healthy, and that he'd be willing to sign a decently reasonable deal, something like 7 years at $7 mil per year, front loaded, which is fair for an RFA like Parise IMO
very rare that I agree with everything a poster on here says. Well put.
The Atlanta Thrashers dealt their captain, an impending free agent, to the Devils on Thursday night for a package that includes defenseman Johnny Oduya, rookie forward Niclas Bergfors, junior prospect Patrice Cormier and New Jersey's first-round pick in the 2010 NHL Entry Draft.
Here is what Devils traded for Kovalchuk.
Makes no sense to weaken the team by sending a key player away for another key player.
He's like Kovalchuk, a winger.
__________________
Woodlief
using his big frame to create space and his skating ability to find open lanes to drive the net. He stands 6-3 and is a natural goal scorer with plenty of confidence.
He's a scout's dream in the way he prepares himself and plays an unselfish game, making smart decisions with the puck. With his bloodlines, he certainly understands what it will take to make it at the next level.
Makes no sense to weaken the team by sending a key player away for another key player.
He's like Kovalchuk, a winger.
I wonder if that contract is holding things up. Parise could say that he was the team's leading scorer for two consecutive seasons so where is his $100 million?
I wonder if that contract is holding things up. Parise could say that he was the team's leading scorer for two consecutive seasons so where is his $100 million?
Kessel for Parise advantage Leafs
Kessel + Jesse Blacker and a draft pick makes the deal possible.
A trade only comes in to play if the expectation is that Parise will only sign a 1 year contract and become a UFA, or if Parise gets a contract of higher value than Kessel's currently is.
Kessel for Parise advantage Leafs
Kessel + Jesse Blacker and a draft pick makes the deal possible.
A trade only comes in to play if the expectation is that Parise will only sign a 1 year contract and become a UFA, or if Parise gets a contract of higher value than Kessel's currently is.
I'm sure Parise would do better with Crabb and Bozak as his linemates in Toronto.
Makes no sense to weaken the team by sending a key player away for another key player.
He's like Kovalchuk, a winger.
Kovalchuk was a rental set to become a UFA, while if Parise was traded it would be a Kessel type deal, he's an RFA and it would be built around him being signed long term. Completely different situation.
If:
a) Parise is healthy
b) The Devils are looking to deal him
c) He's willing to sign a reasonable RFA contract with a new team, something like a front loaded 7 years, $7 mil per year deal
Then he would command a major, major return, simply because a tonne of teams would be competing for him, and many teams would be willing to offer major pieces. Teams will offer a lot for a young superstar signed long term, that is a fact, there is no way he would be dealt for spare parts if he's healthy and willing to sign a decent contract.
If he's set on going to arbitration, or if there are healthy concerns, then his value would be much lower, but a re-signed, healthy Parise would command A TONNE, and rightfully so.
Kovalchuk was a rental set to become a UFA, while if Parise was traded it would be a Kessel type deal, he's an RFA and it would be built around him being signed long term. Completely different situation.
If:
a) Parise is healthy
b) The Devils are looking to deal him
c) He's willing to sign a deal in the 7 years, $7 mil per year range with a new team
Then he would command a major, major return, simply because a tonne of teams would be competing for him, and willing to offer a tonne. Teams will offer a lot for a young superstar signed long term, that is a fact, there is no way he would be dealt for spare parts (if he's healthy and willing to sign a decent contract).
Parise is a 1 year rental. Kessel was coming off his ELS, and had 4 years to UFA status.
