HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

What more does Datsyuk need to do before he is a HoF Lock?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-19-2011, 09:13 AM
  #1
CloneHakanPlease*
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,096
vCash: 500
What more does Datsyuk need to do before he is a HoF Lock?

Career Highlights so far
-3 Selkes
-Two Cups. 1 SCF.
-Several top 5 scoring finishes.
-Hall of Fame/legendary stick handling ability. If you think the writers won't remember that, you're kidding yourself
-4 Lady Byngs
-4 All Star Apperances + no show
-Second All Star Team 2009
- Best Plus Minus Award: 2008
- Calder Trophy Finalist
-World Championship Best Forward: 2010
-3 Time Olympian
-Nominated for Hart Trophy
-Voted Best Russian NHL Player by Russian NHL Players: 2010
-Feared Enforcer

What else does he have to do to solidfy his Hall of Fame Status? I think his career numbers may hurt him since he played 3rd-2nd line minutes for so long on stacked Detroit teams early on/Dead Puck era. I think any 2 of these 3 and he is in. One more Cup, one more Selke, 1000 points or over a ppg.


Last edited by CloneHakanPlease*: 07-19-2011 at 10:04 AM.
CloneHakanPlease* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:14 AM
  #2
SChan*
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,029
vCash: 500
better playoffs

SChan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:15 AM
  #3
Robert Theodorson
Registered User
 
Robert Theodorson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Washington DC
Country: United States
Posts: 7,347
vCash: 500
Calder

Robert Theodorson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:16 AM
  #4
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 53,258
vCash: 1020
To be a lock, meaning a sure-fire inductee who will go in ASAP, he would need to win at least one Hart. That's kind of a minimum for being a lock among forwards. Simply being flashy and winning Byngs is irrelevant.

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:21 AM
  #5
hatterson
Global Moderator
 
hatterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 19,205
vCash: 50
Send a message via Skype™ to hatterson
He's never been called the best player at his position and only has one season as the second best. The Lady Byng means nothing for HHoF votes so right now he's getting in based on being an elite defensive player while also being very good offensively (but only elite for 2 years)

Either he needs to win a couple more Selkes and try to establish himself as the best defensive forward ever. Or he needs to score 80 points a year for the next 6-7 years to become a lock.

He's had a great career, but he started very late and his career totals (221 goals and 651 points) are woefully low for current HHoF induction standards
Edit: To further make that point. In the last decade only Dick Duff, Cam Neely and Clarke Gillies have been inducted into the hall (based on their NHL resumes) with less than 1000 points. Duff played in the 50s and 60s so the stats are hard to compare, but he won 6 cups. Neely retired when he was 30 due to injuries and Gillies was a linchpin to the Isles dynasty. Basically each have a very compelling reason to get in. I'm not sure 3 Selke's is enough to get Datsyuk to that level.


Last edited by hatterson: 07-19-2011 at 09:29 AM.
hatterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:30 AM
  #6
Kronwalled55
Eatin' your hats
 
Kronwalled55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,902
vCash: 500
Put up more points honestly.

Kronwalled55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:31 AM
  #7
ColdSteel2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 27,613
vCash: 50
1000 Pts

ColdSteel2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:32 AM
  #8
Robert Theodorson
Registered User
 
Robert Theodorson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Washington DC
Country: United States
Posts: 7,347
vCash: 500
1000 points is a prerequisite for forwards IMO

You have to start there

Robert Theodorson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:37 AM
  #9
skroob**
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,375
vCash: 500
become King of the Forest.

skroob** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:39 AM
  #10
theIceWookie
#LeafHysteriaAlert
 
theIceWookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
He's never been called the best player at his position and only has one season as the second best. The Lady Byng means nothing for HHoF votes so right now he's getting in based on being an elite defensive player while also being very good offensively (but only elite for 2 years)

Either he needs to win a couple more Selkes and try to establish himself as the best defensive forward ever. Or he needs to score 80 points a year for the next 6-7 years to become a lock.

He's had a great career, but he started very late and his career totals (221 goals and 651 points) are woefully low for current HHoF induction standards
Edit: To further make that point. In the last decade only Dick Duff, Cam Neely and Clarke Gillies have been inducted into the hall (based on their NHL resumes) with less than 1000 points. Duff played in the 50s and 60s so the stats are hard to compare, but he won 6 cups. Neely retired when he was 30 due to injuries and Gillies was a linchpin to the Isles dynasty. Basically each have a very compelling reason to get in. I'm not sure 3 Selke's is enough to get Datsyuk to that level.
He's one of only two players in NHL history to receive both the Selke and Lady Byng in their NHL careers (which is actually quite impressive). he won the both together in two years. He's also a PPG player over his career, his plus/minus in his career is a ridiculous 187, he's only put up 172 career PIMs. He's probably already one of the best defensive forwards in NHL history already.

The voters may not care about Byngs but getting them while putting up Selke Trophy's in the same year is impressive. If he puts up a PPG in his career stats (say gets to 1000 points), he should be a lock for the Hall. The only other player to do what he did with the Selke and Byng is Francis. They both have comparable careers. The only thing you could probably differentiate between the two is the leadership factor.

theIceWookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:41 AM
  #11
Strik_IX
No excuses!
 
Strik_IX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,338
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Osgood As DET View Post
Put up more points honestly.
I think he could get less than a thousand points and make it. Now I know he has 3 more cups and one more Selke, but Gainey finished with 501 points.

Pavel has quite a few years ahead of him and from the looks of things he might just get that 1k.

Unless he becomes terrible over night I think he will get to the HoF and not 30 years after he retires but much sooner.

Strik_IX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:42 AM
  #12
Red Winger 87
He's the Man(tha)
 
Red Winger 87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,643
vCash: 1500
651 points in 662 career regular season games.

He's 33, so I'm guessing he plays until he's 40. Seven more years to get 349 points, so 50 points a year to get to 1000 points. I guess it's feasible that he will get to 1000 points and maybe, just maybe, be in the HoF.

Red Winger 87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:43 AM
  #13
hatterson
Global Moderator
 
hatterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 19,205
vCash: 50
Send a message via Skype™ to hatterson
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
He's one of only two players in NHL history to receive both the Selke and Lady Byng in their NHL careers (which is actually quite impressive). he won the both together in two years. He's also a PPG player over his career, his plus/minus in his career is a ridiculous 187, he's only put up 172 career PIMs. He's probably already one of the best defensive forwards in NHL history already.

The voters may not care about Byngs but getting them while putting up Selke Trophy's in the same year is impressive. If he puts up a PPG in his career stats (say gets to 1000 points), he should be a lock for the Hall. The only other player to do what he did with the Selke and Byng is Francis. They both have comparable careers. The only thing you could probably differentiate between the two is the leadership factor.
This is the key. If he doesn't get to 1000 points he'll have to significantly distinguish himself to get in, much less be a lock. 1000 points is 4.5 seasons of 80 point hockey

hatterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:43 AM
  #14
ds246pit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 551
vCash: 500
1000 Points is the lock as some have said. I'm not sure he will reach that though so i think the next closet thing might be winning a 3rd cup and receiving the Conn Smythe.

3 Cups with a Conn Smythe along with the Selke's should get him in

ds246pit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:46 AM
  #15
Spongolium*
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bridgend,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 8,652
vCash: 500
he needs another 3 seasons at a ppg pace. If he does that he's pretty much a lock i think.

Spongolium* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:48 AM
  #16
The Cheat
Habitual Linestepper
 
The Cheat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Guilford, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 9,391
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to The Cheat Send a message via MSN to The Cheat
Grow a Lanny mustache like this:


The Cheat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:53 AM
  #17
jepjepjoo
Registered User
 
jepjepjoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZBAKE View Post
Career Highlights so far
-3 Selkes
-Two Cups. 1 SCF.
-Several top 5 scoring finishes.
-Hall of Fame/legendary stick handling ability
-4 Lady Byngs
-4 All Star Apperances
-Second All Star Team 2009
- Best Plus Minus Award: 2008
- Calder Trophy Finalist
-World Championship Best Forward: 2010
-3 Time Olympian
-Nominated for Hart Trophy
-Voted Best Russian NHL Player by Russian NHL Players: 2010
-Feared Enforcer

What else does he have to do to solidfy his Hall of Fame Status? I think his career numbers may hurt him since he played 3rd-2nd line minutes for so long on stacked Detroit teams early on/Dead Puck era.
2 x 4th finish is several? Those are also his only top10 finishes.

Quote:
I think his career numbers may hurt him since he played 3rd-2nd line minutes for so long on stacked Detroit teams early on/Dead Puck era
He averaged over 18 minutes in his 3rd season

jepjepjoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:56 AM
  #18
zech
@zech_de
 
zech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Country: Germany
Posts: 314
vCash: 500
A canadian passport.

zech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 09:58 AM
  #19
Sensfanman
Registered User
 
Sensfanman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,184
vCash: 500
He's already a lock IMO.

Sensfanman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 10:02 AM
  #20
5lidyzer19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 838
vCash: 500
A Conn Smythe and another Stanley Cup win. Preferably next year, which could be Lidstrom's last.

Possibly another Selke. He's never going to have a huge compiled list of stats, so he's going to need to impress with more individual awards to be a lock (IE no debate). He does need to keep scoring at a high pace though for another 5-7 years to get more points though.

5lidyzer19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 10:05 AM
  #21
CloneHakanPlease*
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,096
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
1000 points is a prerequisite for forwards IMO

You have to start there
By that logic then, Joe Thornton will have a much better chance then Datsyuk to get into the HoF. Do you think that is so? It's fine if you disagree, but I think Datsyuk will be looked back upon as a better player than Joe Thornton. Could just be the Wing's fan in me, but I thought that would be the general consencous too.


Last edited by CloneHakanPlease*: 07-19-2011 at 10:16 AM.
CloneHakanPlease* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 10:11 AM
  #22
ThirdManIn
Aspiring Sinecure
 
ThirdManIn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 58,316
vCash: 500
Awards:
Well... he would have to at very least retire first

I think Datsyuk gets in once his career is over. Putting up more points and winning a Hart would be good. Another Cup and a Conn Smythe would be better (though not for me)

ThirdManIn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 10:12 AM
  #23
ColdSteel2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 27,613
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZBAKE View Post
By that logic then, Joe Thornton will have a much better chance then Datsyuk to get into the HoF. Do you think that is so? It's fine if you disagree, but I think Datsyuk will be looked back upon as a better player than Joe Thornton.
Lindros will be looked upon as better than both by a lot of people. You can't connect the dots like that. Every case is its own.

ColdSteel2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 10:13 AM
  #24
Levie
Registered User
 
Levie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 11,238
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZBAKE View Post
By that logic then, Joe Thornton will have a much better chance then Datsyuk to get into the HoF. Do you think that is so? It's fine if you disagree, but I think Datsyuk will be looked back upon as a better player than Joe Thornton.
Who was the last player other than joe to record 2 back to back 90 assist seasons?

Levie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2011, 10:14 AM
  #25
Mr Lahey*
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Great North
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,295
vCash: 500
I don't believe in the points prerequisite.

I find it hard to believe that people are shooing in Tim Thomas but Pavel Datsyuk is far from a lock. But its possible I just don't understand the induction standards...

Mr Lahey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:30 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.