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Old
07-20-2011, 03:13 AM
  #51
LiquidSnake*
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Sorry but Kesler dismantled Weber and Suter. Why is this even a discussion because Kesler is clearly worth more than those 2. Not combined though.

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07-20-2011, 03:34 AM
  #52
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Samuelsson's good value as a throw in for Nashville. Would have tied Nashville's leading point scorer this year and would have been their leading point producer last year and he has won a cup. Hodgson could turn into one of their leading scorers pretty easily (40ish points isn't a huge stretch), might be the best natural playmaker on their club as early as next season (the Preds lack forwards with good vision and passing ability). Hodgson and Wilson could be a great 1-2 punch down the middle in a couple years, assuming one comes close to their potential and the other basically pans out.

As a Canucks fan, I would do this but BARELY and mostly cause it seems likely that Weber would sign a long term contract at a reasonable cap hit to play for his home province + a legitimate contender. This trade could look very bad for the Canucks if Edler continues his upward trajectory and/or Hodgson ends up similar to what people expected after the WJC (and that doesn't matter if they reach the Canucks meet the ultimate goal). Samuelsson is a throw in, but a useful one who would be the best or one of the best goalscorers on that club.

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07-20-2011, 03:39 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Sorry but Kesler dismantled Weber and Suter. Why is this even a discussion because Kesler is clearly worth more than those 2. Not combined though.
Sorry but Fisher dismantled Sedin and Sedin. Why is this even a discussion because Fisher is clearly worth more than those 2. Not combined though


Last edited by Predsrule: 07-20-2011 at 03:44 AM.
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Old
07-20-2011, 03:46 AM
  #54
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as a vancouver fan i'd do
edler
raymond
hodgson
schroeder

for weber

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Old
07-20-2011, 03:48 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Predsrule View Post
Sorry but Fisher dismantled Sedin and Sredin. Why is this even a discussion because Fisherr is clearly worth more than those 2. Not combined though
Fisher and Kesler were matched up that series at least the majority of the time and Fisher was absolutely dominated in every way possible by Kesler. Dave Bolland would be a better example for the pointing out the fallacy in that other post.

Although I would say that Kesler is more valuable than either of those d-men (barely) because of their contract situations.

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07-20-2011, 03:54 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Predsrule View Post
Sorry but Fisher dismantled Sedin and Sedin. Why is this even a discussion because Fisher is clearly worth more than those 2. Not combined though
Funny as Fisher never played another game after that series.

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07-20-2011, 03:56 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by ManoWarrior View Post
Fisher and Kesler were matched up that series at least the majority of the time and Fisher was absolutely dominated in every way possible by Kesler. Dave Bolland would be a better example for the pointing out the fallacy in that other post.

Although I would say that Kesler is more valuable than either of those d-men (barely) because of their contract situations.
Legwand was our main center Vs Kesler.
so sick of this contract thing.. the Worse case contract we have for Weber is a 2 year deal in Arbitration..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Funny as Fisher never played another game after that series.
you have great logic.. so to you Chris Kelly > all of the Van team?
no? funny.. wasnt your agrument who won the series?

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07-20-2011, 03:58 AM
  #58
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The only way Weber is going to go is if he demands a trade. If the arbitration hearing is really foul, it could happen. This would put Nashville in the same position as Ottawa was in with Heatly. It isn't a strong position at all.

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07-20-2011, 04:04 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Predsrule View Post
Legwand was our main center Vs Kesler.
so sick of this contract thing.. the Worse case contract we have for Weber is a 2 year deal in Arbitration..


you have great logic.. so to you Chris Kelly > all of the Van team?
no? funny.. wasnt your agrument who won the series?
At which point Weber goes straight to free agency and probably to the highest bidder.

my agrument was that Kesler outplayed a owned Weber and Suter. DO you deny that? And that won them the series.

As for the Boston series (I understand it's frustrating having to use other teams' success to defend your point), Marchand definately outplayed any of the Canucks.

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07-20-2011, 04:08 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
At which point Weber goes straight to free agency and probably to the highest bidder.

my agrument was that Kesler outplayed a owned Weber and Suter. DO you deny that? And that won them the series.

As for the Boston series (I understand it's frustrating having to use other teams' success to defend your point), Marchand definately outplayed any of the Canucks.
Can i have the loto numbers as well? thats like me saying Sedins will be ufa in a couple of years and go to the higest bidder.. you cant really know that.
and if you know its bad logic why use it.. you wouldnt say Marchand > any Van player.

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Old
07-20-2011, 04:15 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
And you should watch more hockey. He was on pace for 50 points prior to his injury, was 21st in minutes, plays in all situations, is great defensively, is mobile and hits like a mack truck.

Just an outstanding young defencemen who is easily top 15 in the league.
So you are saying Alex Edler is better than:

Chris Pronger
Nicklas Lidstrom
Keith Yandle
Drew Doughty
Jack Johnson
Christian Erhoff
Dan Boyle
Zdeno Chara
Shea Weber
Tobias Enstrom
Dan Hamhuis
Ryan Suter
Kris Letang
Brent Seabrook
Duncan Keith
Brent Burns
Nicklas Kronwall
Marc Staal
Mike Green
Kevin Bieksa
Robyn Regehr

He might be better then a few of them but he is not top 15 in the league. Maybe top 20 and im probably leaving a few players off the list.

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Old
07-20-2011, 04:25 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemieux66lemieux View Post
So you are saying Alex Edler is better than:

Chris Pronger
Nicklas Lidstrom
Keith Yandle
Drew Doughty
Jack Johnson
Christian Erhoff
Dan Boyle
Zdeno Chara
Shea Weber
Tobias Enstrom
Dan Hamhuis
Ryan Suter
Kris Letang
Brent Seabrook
Duncan Keith
Brent Burns
Nicklas Kronwall
Marc Staal
Mike Green
Kevin Bieksa
Robyn Regehr

He might be better then a few of them but he is not top 15 in the league. Maybe top 20 and im probably leaving a few players off the list.
Man...someone clearly don't belong on that list.

and it's very obvious.

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Old
07-20-2011, 04:34 AM
  #63
Predsrule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemieux66lemieux View Post
So you are saying Alex Edler is better than:

Chris Pronger
Nicklas Lidstrom
Keith Yandle
Drew Doughty
Jack Johnson
Christian Erhoff
Dan Boyle
Zdeno Chara
Shea Weber
Tobias Enstrom
Dan Hamhuis
Ryan Suter
Kris Letang
Brent Seabrook
Duncan Keith
Brent Burns
Nicklas Kronwall
Marc Staal
Mike Green
Kevin Bieksa
Robyn Regehr

He might be better then a few of them but he is not top 15 in the league. Maybe top 20 and im probably leaving a few players off the list.
Markov
Visnovsky
Timonen
Streit
Myers
just some names to throw inthere .. I think Edler is a top 20 D but not top 15


but Robyn Regehr? really? .... rrrrreally?

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07-20-2011, 04:37 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemieux66lemieux View Post
So you are saying Alex Edler is better than:

Chris Pronger
Nicklas Lidstrom
Keith Yandle
Drew Doughty
Jack Johnson
Christian Erhoff
Dan Boyle
Zdeno Chara
Shea Weber
Tobias Enstrom
Dan Hamhuis
Ryan Suter
Kris Letang
Brent Seabrook
Duncan Keith
Brent Burns
Nicklas Kronwall
Marc Staal
Mike Green
Kevin Bieksa
Robyn Regehr

He might be better then a few of them but he is not top 15 in the league. Maybe top 20 and im probably leaving a few players off the list.
You suggesting that Erhoff is better than Edler invalidates your opinion on the matter.

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07-20-2011, 04:45 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemieux66lemieux View Post
So you are saying Alex Edler is better than:

Chris Pronger
Nicklas Lidstrom
Keith Yandle
Drew Doughty
Jack Johnson
Christian Erhoff
Dan Boyle
Zdeno Chara
Shea Weber
Tobias Enstrom
Dan Hamhuis
Ryan Suter
Kris Letang
Brent Seabrook
Duncan Keith
Brent Burns
Nicklas Kronwall
Marc Staal
Mike Green
Kevin Bieksa
Robyn Regehr

He might be better then a few of them but he is not top 15 in the league. Maybe top 20 and im probably leaving a few players off the list.
Not sure if serious.

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Old
07-20-2011, 04:59 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by ice8eight View Post
Not sure if serious.
are you?
Yandle
Tobias Enstrom
Brent Burns
Kris Letang
easy....
I put him in same bracket as Kronwall

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Old
07-20-2011, 05:06 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
counter:

kesler for klein/lebda/watson

or in other words...your supertstar for a 2nd pair dman, a useless vet and a former first rounder yet to a thing in the nhl. it is the same thing you just offered
Edler is a first pair D-man, easily. He'll hit 50 points this season.
And Samuelsson isn't as useless as Lebda. Not even Close

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Old
07-20-2011, 05:07 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Blane Youngblood View Post
Interested in your opinion on two things:
1) Do contracts not matter to you at all? Kesler signed for $5M x 5 years is better than Weber as an RFA who can elect for arbitration and become a UFA soon.

2) If NSH and VAN played last year's playoffs with Kesler on NSH and Weber on VAN, who do you think wins the series?
1) It's all about the "Now" success. And I was actually going by if we already had Weber signed, sorry. But if he is signed, then he is going nowhere so this is moot.

2) No way of knowing. If not for a total BS call in game 3 ot on Weber, if I remember, then maybe Van doesn't win that game. Point being no one can know the answer to this question.

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07-20-2011, 07:06 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Canuck fans lets just stop posting in these threads for Weber.

We arent in the situation to make a blockbuster.

He is UFA in 2 years.

If he wants to he can come 'home' then....he will not be traded to Vancouver.

Continually posting in these threads is just annoying...we all want him, and Nashville does too....it aint happening.
I think your right on point, "it aint happening". but if suddenly Nashville offers up Weber or NJ offers up Parise it's because they already know that they aren't going to be able to re-sign one or the other for term at a team affordable cap price, unfortunately if either or the other suddenly came on the market every team would know why, wouldn't you be hesitant to offer too much not knowing if you could sign either long term or were just trading for a rental.

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07-20-2011, 07:28 AM
  #70
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I think your right on point, "it aint happening". but if suddenly Nashville offers up Weber or NJ offers up Parise it's because they already know that they aren't going to be able to re-sign one or the other for term at a team affordable cap price, unfortunately if either or the other suddenly came on the market every team would know why, wouldn't you be hesitant to offer too much not knowing if you could sign either long term or were just trading for a rental.
As in every other Weber propsal, if Weber is up for bids, what's more likely - bidding war, or 25 teams all decide to lowball?

Supposing the Preds decide to trade him, Nashville isn't interested in moving Weber for a nice #2 D, mediocre RW, and a prospect that looks so certain as a bust that he's in virtually every single Vancouver propsal on these boards - you guys can't give him away.

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Old
07-20-2011, 09:04 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by kypredsfan View Post
NO deal. Weber > Edler. Suter does not equal Kesler. You don't get Wilson. We do not deal both Suter and Weber. One for sure will be staying. Maybe I should've said Weber for Kesler & Hodgson & a 1st.
[QUOTE=Predsrule;35199289]Legwand was our main center Vs Kesler.
so sick of this contract thing.. the Worse case contract we have for Weber is a 2 year deal in Arbitration..

You know, I think there are quite a few people out there that would value Kesler over Weber, to suggest that Edler and Kesler is worth Weber is simply insane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemieux66lemieux View Post
So you are saying Alex Edler is better than:

Chris Pronger
Nicklas Lidstrom
Keith Yandle
Drew Doughty
Jack Johnson
Christian Erhoff
Dan Boyle
Zdeno Chara
Shea Weber
Tobias Enstrom
Dan Hamhuis
Ryan Suter
Kris Letang
Brent Seabrook
Duncan Keith
Brent Burns
Nicklas Kronwall
Marc Staal
Mike Green
Kevin Bieksa
Robyn Regehr


He might be better then a few of them but he is not top 15 in the league. Maybe top 20 and im probably leaving a few players off the list.
By mid next season, Edler will be a legit top 15 dman, maybe even better. He's on the rise, while many others are on the decline. Edler was in the process of putting a HUGE season together before he got injured. Now with Ehrhoff gone, Edler is going to be used even more. Edler was on pace for 50 points this last season while playing physical defensively responsible hockey. The bolded above are guys Edler is better than.

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07-20-2011, 09:14 AM
  #72
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[QUOTE=Luck 6;35202277]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Predsrule View Post


By mid next season, Edler will be a legit top 15 dman, maybe even better. He's on the rise, while many others are on the decline. Edler was in the process of putting a HUGE season together before he got injured. Now with Ehrhoff gone, Edler is going to be used even more. Edler was on pace for 50 points this last season while playing physical defensively responsible hockey. The bolded above are guys Edler is better than.
I can play that game too!

In 2 seasons, Jonathan Blum will be a legit top 15 D-man. He was as impressive as any D-man on the Preds in his short stint with the big club and in the playoffs. He's on pace to have a 40 points if he played the full season (and that doesn't count any improvement due to experience/natural growth of the player). He singlehandedly allowed us to give away Cody Franson. At worst, he's a better Dan Hamhuis. We might have another Ryan Suter.

And we still don't want Edler for Weber, as he'd be the #3 d-man on our team.

Give us scoring, or we shop somewhere else.

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Old
07-20-2011, 10:41 AM
  #73
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Ah these Vancouver/Nashville trade threads ALWAYS turn out so nice...

Let's see if I can boil this down to its purest form. If Weber is going anywhere, a legitimate top line forward has to come back. To continue repeating myself, a LEGITIMATE TOP LINE FORWARD not just a forward that happened to have put up more goals or points than anyone on the Preds last year. Kesler plays on the second line, but he's a legitimate top line player. Burrows plays on the top line, but is in no way what we would be looking for. Malkin players on the second line, but is a legitimate top line forward. Kunitz isn't what we need. Etc etc. We would prefer a winger, but a number 1 center is valuable and we could move one of our centers to the wing.

Sending us back a defenseman as your centerpiece doesn't work. I know it seems logical since we would be giving up our 1A defenseman, but we have Blum seemingly ready to turn into a top defenseman in the league. Ekholm is impressing the hell out of people. Josi, if his injury bug is just a bug, is going to be similar to Blum. Ellis is still a bit of a question mark, but his brief stint in the AHL didn't out him as some little rag doll who can't handle it when men are staring him down. If you want to toss in a defenseman then toss in a vet with size and grit on a cheap contract, but honestly I'm not sure I even want that.

If Weber for Kesler doesn't get it done then nothing gets it done. We don't have to get into a ******* pissing match to see who can better argue the value of his guy...

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07-20-2011, 11:39 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemieux66lemieux View Post
So you are saying Alex Edler is better than:

Chris Pronger
Nicklas Lidstrom
Keith Yandle
Drew Doughty
Jack Johnson
Christian Erhoff
Dan Boyle
Zdeno Chara
Shea Weber
Tobias Enstrom
Dan Hamhuis
Ryan Suter
Kris Letang
Brent Seabrook
Duncan Keith
Brent Burns
Nicklas Kronwall
Marc Staal
Mike Green
Kevin Bieksa
Robyn Regehr

He might be better then a few of them but he is not top 15 in the league. Maybe top 20 and im probably leaving a few players off the list.
Wow I guess all of us Canuck fans are very stupid off your list as Edler isn't a number 1 on our own team... He was our #4 D according to you. Edler is our Number 1 and he is in the Top 15 in the League.
Better than Edler.
Chris Pronger - atm yes Pronger is better but Edler keeps going he could be just as good as Pronger (w/o the discipline issue)
Nicklas Lidstrom - Not as good as a HOF'er like Nick
Drew Doughty - Doughty is in a specail breed of Defenceman.
Zdeno Chara - Chara is a beast
Shea Weber - See Chara.
Kris Letang - Had a breakout year one of best 2 way D in the league
Duncan Keith - Former Norris Winner and very good D.

In the same class arguments can be made for either to be ahead or behind Edler
Keith Yandle - is better offensively defensively I give the edge to Edler both have room to improve and can I would say it is a draw atm.
Ryan Suter - Defensively one of the best in NHL. Offensively mid pack and a very good D.
Brent Seabrook - See Suter.
Marc Staal - Same as Suter and Seabrook not as good offensively as either
Brent Burns - Edler and Burns are very similar D.
Nicklas Kronwall - is a very good D does a lot of things good but not a lot is he elite at.

Not as good as Edler
Jack Johnson - JMFJ is good but not as good as Edler is right now.
Christian Erhoff - Ehroff is slightly better than Edler offensively. Edler is way better defensively. So Edler is better.
Dan Boyle - See Christian Ehroff (just better offensively than Ehroff)
Mike Green - Is just like Dan Boyle.
Tobias Enstrom - See Ehroff
Dan Hamhuis - Better Defensively and more consistent atm. But Offensively Edler wins by a fair margin.
Kevin Bieksa - Good Defenseman but way more inconsistent than Edler
Robyn Regehr - Needs to find if he is still an elite D. He is good but foot speed has brought a lot of issues to Regehr.


Last edited by CM-: 07-20-2011 at 11:46 AM.
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07-20-2011, 11:51 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Ah these Vancouver/Nashville trade threads ALWAYS turn out so nice...

Let's see if I can boil this down to its purest form. If Weber is going anywhere, a legitimate top line forward has to come back. To continue repeating myself, a LEGITIMATE TOP LINE FORWARD not just a forward that happened to have put up more goals or points than anyone on the Preds last year. Kesler plays on the second line, but he's a legitimate top line player. Burrows plays on the top line, but is in no way what we would be looking for. Malkin players on the second line, but is a legitimate top line forward. Kunitz isn't what we need. Etc etc. We would prefer a winger, but a number 1 center is valuable and we could move one of our centers to the wing.

Sending us back a defenseman as your centerpiece doesn't work. I know it seems logical since we would be giving up our 1A defenseman, but we have Blum seemingly ready to turn into a top defenseman in the league. Ekholm is impressing the hell out of people. Josi, if his injury bug is just a bug, is going to be similar to Blum. Ellis is still a bit of a question mark, but his brief stint in the AHL didn't out him as some little rag doll who can't handle it when men are staring him down. If you want to toss in a defenseman then toss in a vet with size and grit on a cheap contract, but honestly I'm not sure I even want that.

If Weber for Kesler doesn't get it done then nothing gets it done. We don't have to get into a ******* pissing match to see who can better argue the value of his guy...
I agree with you, Nashville could no doubt get a better deal elsewhere. Unless a legit top 6 sniper is coming back I see no incentive for them to move Weber. Someone in the mold of Kessel, Ryan, Parise, Tavares, or Giroux.

I don't understand why some Vancouver fans like this though, it doesn't make us into a better team next season. Trading Edler for Weber while sacrificing a ton of quality depth is not the type of deal we should be making. Sure, the value is there, but it just doesn't make any sense for anyone.

Thanks for putting together a quality post by the way...

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