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Old
07-20-2011, 09:33 AM
  #51
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I like the idea of keeping our roster as is, entering the season with the core we currently have, and letting the rest of the roster spots get battled to the death for. It'll be interesting to see who steps up. People can speculate all they want, but the fact of the matter is some players are going to play better than expected, some will play worse than expected. I mean, how many people predicted back in July 2010 that Ben Smith was going to step up with the big boys in the playoffs??

Another reason I like our current roster/cap space situation is there will be injuries. That way we can wait to see if any *god forbid* season ending injuries occur, and we would be able to address those specific holes as they come.

For the cap space we have, we have a pretty solid roster at this point. Many possible breakthrough players, but many questions marks. That is why October can't come soon enough

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07-20-2011, 09:34 AM
  #52
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So an undersized rookie center, another smaller rookie on one wing, and an injury prone player who has no real history of being gritty or physical. Not to mention 2 rookies the organization wants to develop only playing 6 mins a night. Seems like a great plan you have there.
Ben Smith is 5'11 205 lbs, the same size as Daniel Carcillo. Adam Burish doesn't even weight 205 lbs. Ben Smith is short but he's not small.

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07-20-2011, 10:52 AM
  #53
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I'd rather have Ruutu than Boyes...

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07-20-2011, 10:54 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by DewsSox79 View Post
I understand that, but for 1 year it doesnt do a whole lot. I would want him for multiple seasons.
It buys the Hawks one more year to develop someone in Rockford who will be ready to step up next season like Morin or Beach.

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07-20-2011, 10:58 AM
  #55
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The one thing that the players, Q, and Stan all said was missing last year was grit and physical play. And you want to send those three out as our 4th line? So instead of getting bigger, stronger, and tougher to play against. We get smaller and less physical with a high injury risk. I just don't get it.

I know its easy to get distracted by all the skill and upside Kruger and Smith may have over Mayers and Carcillo. But this team needs Mayers and Carcillo out there more than Smith or Kruger, because of the very specific style of play they bring to the table.
↑↑↑↑
This

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07-20-2011, 01:38 PM
  #56
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People trashing Rosty and praising Boyes have never seen a Panthers game.

Olesz is not as bad as people want to make him out to be. ... he got very little top 6 time ... Hard to earn it when you never get a shot and then was injured (and it was a real injury) Boyes simply had his luck run out. It seemed in Toronto he could shoot from anywhere and it would somehow find the net but the last 2 years he couldn't hit water from a boat.
Also understand that when Olesz is not scoring he plays a very sound responsible defensive game. Boyes has never actually met his own goalie.

For right now with Olesz considered somewhat of an albatross you could say we have one bad contract, why in the world would you want to add another?

In their careers both Olesz and Stalberg have show flashes (potential) Olesz already has a defensive game and Stalberg showed a willingness to play tougher as time went on. There are you "maybees" on the team as camp opens. That is plenty, we dont need another.
If they pan out ... GREAT. If not then we have kids who can get a shot at a regular spot come December or January. If they don't work we have a ton of cap space to make a move at the deadline.
I really like the way the roster is contructed ...
Toews and Kane
Sharp and Hossa
Bolland and Frolik
Mayers and Carcillo

Brunette, Olesz, Bickell and Stalberg will get every chance to fill the hole in each line. A kid (probably Kruger) and Scott fill out the roster. Smith, Morin and everyone else starts in Rockford unless they really light it up AND show value at both ends of the ice. Morin had a good camp last year but was invisible defensively.

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07-20-2011, 01:42 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brevard View Post
People trashing Rosty and praising Boyes have never seen a Panthers game.

Olesz is not as bad as people want to make him out to be. ... he got very little top 6 time ... Hard to earn it when you never get a shot and then was injured (and it was a real injury) Boyes simply had his luck run out. It seemed in Toronto he could shoot from anywhere and it would somehow find the net but the last 2 years he couldn't hit water from a boat.
Also understand that when Olesz is not scoring he plays a very sound responsible defensive game. Boyes has never actually met his own goalie.

For right now with Olesz considered somewhat of an albatross you could say we have one bad contract, why in the world would you want to add another?

In their careers both Olesz and Stalberg have show flashes (potential) Olesz already has a defensive game and Stalberg showed a willingness to play tougher as time went on. There are you "maybees" on the team as camp opens. That is plenty, we dont need another.
If they pan out ... GREAT. If not then we have kids who can get a shot at a regular spot come December or January. If they don't work we have a ton of cap space to make a move at the deadline.
I really like the way the roster is contructed ...
Toews and Kane
Sharp and Hossa
Bolland and Frolik
Mayers and Carcillo

Brunette, Olesz, Bickell and Stalberg will get every chance to fill the hole in each line. A kid (probably Kruger) and Scott fill out the roster. Smith, Morin and everyone else starts in Rockford unless they really light it up AND show value at both ends of the ice. Morin had a good camp last year but was invisible defensively.
To be fair Boyes contract isn't that bad given he is FA after next year and honestly he would fit in a top 6 LW role (IMO)

I have been saying Olesz as a 3rd line LW would be fine option and that his defense would fit well with Hawks

He will get his chance (Maybe even some time in top 6 with Q at helm) with Hawks this coming year. How he plays will determine if he is a buyout/trade/buried or part of Hawks beyond that

As of now I am thinking

Bickell-Toews-Kane (Bickell will get chance to fill Brouwer's role I think on that line)
Brunette-Sharp-Hossa
Olesz-Bolland-Frolik
Carcillo-Mayers-Smith
Stalberg/Scott

Keith-Seabrook
Hjalmarsson-Leddy
Lepisto-Montador
O'Donnell

That is what I see our lines looking like at start of year. Morin and Kruger in AHL to start

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07-20-2011, 01:50 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brevard View Post
People trashing Rosty and praising Boyes have never seen a Panthers game.

Olesz is not as bad as people want to make him out to be. ... he got very little top 6 time ... Hard to earn it when you never get a shot and then was injured (and it was a real injury) Boyes simply had his luck run out. It seemed in Toronto he could shoot from anywhere and it would somehow find the net but the last 2 years he couldn't hit water from a boat.
Also understand that when Olesz is not scoring he plays a very sound responsible defensive game. Boyes has never actually met his own goalie.

For right now with Olesz considered somewhat of an albatross you could say we have one bad contract, why in the world would you want to add another?

In their careers both Olesz and Stalberg have show flashes (potential) Olesz already has a defensive game and Stalberg showed a willingness to play tougher as time went on. There are you "maybees" on the team as camp opens. That is plenty, we dont need another.
If they pan out ... GREAT. If not then we have kids who can get a shot at a regular spot come December or January. If they don't work we have a ton of cap space to make a move at the deadline.
I really like the way the roster is contructed ...
Toews and Kane
Sharp and Hossa
Bolland and Frolik
Mayers and Carcillo

Brunette, Olesz, Bickell and Stalberg will get every chance to fill the hole in each line. A kid (probably Kruger) and Scott fill out the roster. Smith, Morin and everyone else starts in Rockford unless they really light it up AND show value at both ends of the ice. Morin had a good camp last year but was invisible defensively.
good post, well done

agree

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07-20-2011, 01:57 PM
  #59
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If there are no further changes, I want these lines:

Bickell-Toews-Kane
Brunette-Sharp-Hossa
Smith-Bolland-Frolik
Carcillo-Kruger-Mayers
Stalberg-Olesz

I think Bickell and Smith could also change spots and we wouldn't miss a beat.

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07-20-2011, 02:03 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullksinikers View Post
If there are no further changes, I want these lines:

Bickell-Toews-Kane
Brunette-Sharp-Hossa
Smith-Bolland-Frolik
Carcillo-Kruger-Mayers
Stalberg-Olesz

I think Bickell and Smith could also change spots and we wouldn't miss a beat.
Agreed. Olesz is an intersting wild card, but I don't want him getting ice time over Bickell or Smith until they play their way out of the lineup and he practices his way in.

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07-20-2011, 02:04 PM
  #61
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There will be so much competition in camp this year. The guys who don't have the work ethic will be weeded out immediately.

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07-20-2011, 02:05 PM
  #62
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No thanks to Boyes.

Buffalo isn't going to trade him anyway, not before the season anyway.

If they send Kotalik and Morisson down, they are fine.

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07-20-2011, 02:25 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Agreed. Olesz is an intersting wild card, but I don't want him getting ice time over Bickell or Smith until they play their way out of the lineup and he practices his way in.
Yes. I just think it sucks that we could potentially have an extra forward with a $3.125 million cap hit. Smith and Bickell are easily better forwards than Olesz. We also don't know how he'll bounce back from the ACL tear. Give him a shot in camp, but I don't think there's any way they can give Olesz more ice time than Bickell and/or Smith. Plus, I don't really think he should be one of the twelve forwards playing on a nightly basis.

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07-20-2011, 07:09 PM
  #64
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Yes. I just think it sucks that we could potentially have an extra forward with a $3.125 million cap hit. Smith and Bickell are easily better forwards than Olesz. We also don't know how he'll bounce back from the ACL tear. Give him a shot in camp, but I don't think there's any way they can give Olesz more ice time than Bickell and/or Smith. Plus, I don't really think he should be one of the twelve forwards playing on a nightly basis.
You must be a great pro scout. ... The words that should appear on HF on a regular basis but never do are "In my opinion" Otherwise there is nothing but humor in your claim that Smith is EASILY better than ... ANYONE. That is of course based on 2 weeks play. Next thing we know you will be offering a few 1st rounders for Reto Von Arx.

I would bet a shiney new dime that every "kid" is in the minors at years start with the probable exception of Kruger. No great special knowledge on my part just the realization that the guys on the bubble need to get a fair look and the kids have little leverage and can be sent down without being subject to waivers. Kruger may be kept because I can see him not wanting to play in Rockford for 100k when he can made 5 times that back home in a shorter season.

Finally, as for people posting that Olesz can be sent down or even dumber, bought out ... fugedaboudit. Rocky has been a great guy. Eating Huet's deal and then you have to note several guys are earning more per year than their cap hit. Rocky will end up dishing out close to 75 million in salaries for a 64 million cap hit.

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07-20-2011, 07:14 PM
  #65
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You must be a great pro scout. ... The words that should appear on HF on a regular basis but never do are "In my opinion" Otherwise there is nothing but humor in your claim that Smith is EASILY better than ... ANYONE. That is of course based on 2 weeks play. Next thing we know you will be offering a few 1st rounders for Reto Von Arx.

I would bet a shiney new dime that every "kid" is in the minors at years start with the probable exception of Kruger. No great special knowledge on my part just the realization that the guys on the bubble need to get a fair look and the kids have little leverage and can be sent down without being subject to waivers. Kruger may be kept because I can see him not wanting to play in Rockford for 100k when he can made 5 times that back home in a shorter season.

Finally, as for people posting that Olesz can be sent down or even dumber, bought out ... fugedaboudit. Rocky has been a great guy. Eating Huet's deal and then you have to note several guys are earning more per year than their cap hit. Rocky will end up dishing out close to 75 million in salaries for a 64 million cap hit.
I think Smith has better shot on roster then Kruger. Kruger just didn't look NHL ready last year. Smith showed more in his limited look and I think is better option as of now for bottom 6 role

Like I said though camp will decide what happens. I still believe Makarov could win the 4th line RW spot with strong camp as well

As for Olesz. He wont be buried with Huet still on books and the pipedream CBA loophole we were hoping for is no longer viable (Campoli arbitration move up made it even more impossible). Olesz not healthy enough for 2nd buyout nor will him/agent waive

He will get next season to show what he can do. If he plays well then it gives Hawks options going forward (Trade him or keep him)

If he struggles then he becomes a viable buyout canidate in summer of 2012 as we only have to pay 2/3 of his costs and the cap hits are reasonable for most part (Those last 2 years of 4 yr buyout are a little high for dead cap space). I dont know if Wirtz will desire to throw away money on Olesz for 2 years buried like he did with Huet since Olesz cap hit isn't interfering with Hawks ability to ice a team


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07-20-2011, 07:29 PM
  #66
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I think Smith has better shot on roster then Kruger. Kruger just didn't look NHL ready last year. Smith showed more in his limited look and I think is better option as of now for bottom 6 role

Like I said though camp will decide what happens. I still believe Makarov could win the 4th line RW spot with strong camp as well

As for Olesz. He wont be buried with Huet still on books and the pipedream CBA loophole we were hoping for is no longer viable (Campoli arbitration move up made it even more impossible). Olesz not healthy enough for 2nd buyout nor will him/agent waive

He will get next season to show what he can do. If he plays well then it gives Hawks options going forward (Trade him or keep him)

If he struggles then he becomes a viable buyout canidate in summer of 2012 as we only have to pay 2/3 of his costs and the cap hits are reasonable for most part (Those last 2 years of 4 yr buyout are a little high for dead cap space). I dont know if Wirtz will desire to throw away money on Olesz for 2 years buried like he did with Huet since Olesz cap hit isn't interfering with Hawks ability to ice a team
We agree on Makarov. He could be the one who stays but I just don't see Bowman wanting to bury one way deals in Rockford so unless there is a trade to be had Scott will be 1 of 23 that leaves 1 open spot for the kids to compete for. Again management is pretty high on Kruger and I thought he showed well for spending no time during the season on the small ice "very different game than the euro rink". Ready or not they may fear he goes home rather than accept an assignment in Rockford and keep him in the 21st spot.

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07-20-2011, 07:34 PM
  #67
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We agree on Makarov. He could be the one who stays but I just don't see Bowman wanting to bury one way deals in Rockford so unless there is a trade to be had Scott will be 1 of 23 that leaves 1 open spot for the kids to compete for. Again management is pretty high on Kruger and I thought he showed well for spending no time during the season on the small ice "very different game than the euro rink". Ready or not they may fear he goes home rather than accept an assignment in Rockford and keep him in the 21st spot.
I thought Kruger played ok but there is still alot to his game I think needs adjustement to NA. At least starting out in AHL in top 6 role could be good for his benefit. And he seemed committed to idea of making it in NHL that i dont think he would run back to Sweden.

Makarov seems to get overlooked. He really wasn't that bad in Rockford once he adjusted and his solid defensive and ability to play a bottom 6 role to me give him a good chance to win that 4th line spot.

I dont get the point of Stalberg on Hawks (Rehashing the argument is too much but my position is clear)

Maybe near end of camp we can find a deal for him elsewhere if he is getting outplayed again (Like he did last camp)

Also I dont think Scott is worth keeping on roster as well but Bowman/Q seem to want him on roster

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07-21-2011, 01:02 AM
  #68
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well, Krüger played as good at D as Smith played as good at O.
right now for the Bottom 6 I take the player that has shown he can play D at the NHL level

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07-21-2011, 11:37 AM
  #69
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A declining Boyes put up 55 points between St Louis and Buffalo last year. I'm betting he could top those numbers on Chicago.

We lost a lot more offense than Campbell's point totals indicate. I'm not comfortable with us being able to repeat the production we saw last year as the roster stands now. If Boyes can be had on the cheap then by all means bring him in. Our LW depth is amongst the weakest in the league and we can afford him.

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07-21-2011, 11:43 AM
  #70
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Yes. I just think it sucks that we could potentially have an extra forward with a $3.125 million cap hit. Smith and Bickell are easily better forwards than Olesz. We also don't know how he'll bounce back from the ACL tear. Give him a shot in camp, but I don't think there's any way they can give Olesz more ice time than Bickell and/or Smith. Plus, I don't really think he should be one of the twelve forwards playing on a nightly basis.
Agreed, and really it's the best for both sides. Olesz has some nice upside, but he's really injury prone. I'd like to see them shelter him a bit to give him the best chance to cash in on some of that potential and become a better player. I'd like to see him benched against really physical teams and dress for around 60 games total. Especially with knee injury, I wouldn't play him back to back.

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07-21-2011, 12:12 PM
  #71
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Hawks rookie tourney in London, Ontario 2010-11 last season... Makarov easily had the best tournament. I went to all 3 games and the last game Makarov hat-trick. I believe he had 4 or 5 goals in 3 games. He has not been consistent and that has been a problem. He skated on the 2nd line in the rookie tourney. Beach & Pirri were on the top line. I think when Makarov has a center that he clicks with he is dangerous. His skating & puck handling similar to Havlat.

Makarov probably does another year in AHL and if not traded or in the NHL by next year...I would think KHL would be someplace that he would rather be than Rockford.

Also Kruger in Rockford 2 months max this year. European prospects can not be expected to play more than 2 years in the AHL. It doesn't make sense because as one poster mentioned more games, less money & further distance from Europe. Plus SEL & KHL talent is strong enough where some say it is equal to AHL. The only thing different is the size of the ice in N. America, and that makes it a faster game.

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07-21-2011, 02:55 PM
  #72
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to be fair, I don't think that Krüger would get that much more in the SEL next year than he gets in the A. It would be more but not that much.

But I think that he would rather stay in Sweden to develop than play in the AHL. Bowman wanted him on the Roster last year and all he did during this year was improve

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07-21-2011, 04:47 PM
  #73
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Kruger needs to get used to the ice in NA. You can say he has nothing to learn, but you should probably read Lepisto's interview.

Europeans need to adjust to NA ice, there is no doubt about it.

I think there is a chance he makes it, because we lack C's and because he is a pretty good defensive player. But I think he should spend time in the A (half year) just to adjust to the ice.

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07-21-2011, 09:17 PM
  #74
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to be fair, I don't think that Krüger would get that much more in the SEL next year than he gets in the A. It would be more but not that much.

But I think that he would rather stay in Sweden to develop than play in the AHL. Bowman wanted him on the Roster last year and all he did during this year was improve
He was considered a better than average player last year in the SEL. He would make over 500k there playing a 50 game season. I believe this year the AHL max is 125k.

Plus he would be at home and near his family/friends.

I always read people saying guys should take less, just to win, just to play in NA, just to have a shot ... whatever. That is for the most part ********. Yes a guy who has been around for years and made his loot has some freedoms to do what he wants in terms of team, location and dollar amount but for someone young (Kruger, or the russian D-man who just went back) you have to realize that any shift could be the last and then the gravy train is over. Should he have a career ending injury this season how much money do you think Kruger will make from age 25 to 60 without hockey? Given a choice between 100k and MAYBE a shot at the NHL or 500k and adding much to his lifetime security I think the choice would be easy. ... It is a big part of the reason he played there last year. Bowman wanted the kid to stay in NA. He and his agent told the Hawks he could develop there (playing against men) just as well as he could here and make 5x as much. ... I think it hurt him a bit in not being as familiar with the smaller ice surface but do not blame him for doing what is right for his future.

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07-21-2011, 10:26 PM
  #75
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He was considered a better than average player last year in the SEL. He would make over 500k there playing a 50 game season. I believe this year the AHL max is 125k.

Plus he would be at home and near his family/friends.

I always read people saying guys should take less, just to win, just to play in NA, just to have a shot ... whatever. That is for the most part ********. Yes a guy who has been around for years and made his loot has some freedoms to do what he wants in terms of team, location and dollar amount but for someone young (Kruger, or the russian D-man who just went back) you have to realize that any shift could be the last and then the gravy train is over. Should he have a career ending injury this season how much money do you think Kruger will make from age 25 to 60 without hockey? Given a choice between 100k and MAYBE a shot at the NHL or 500k and adding much to his lifetime security I think the choice would be easy. ... It is a big part of the reason he played there last year. Bowman wanted the kid to stay in NA. He and his agent told the Hawks he could develop there (playing against men) just as well as he could here and make 5x as much. ... I think it hurt him a bit in not being as familiar with the smaller ice surface but do not blame him for doing what is right for his future.
Agreed

That is why I dont bash Russian players who want to stay in Russia.

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