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Old
07-20-2011, 11:28 AM
  #26
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I believe the team thinks that NHL ice time for Scandella is more important than having Zanon for the playoffs this year. If we want Scandella to have a shot at playing top pairing in 2012-2013, he absolutely needs to be playing top-4 minutes with the Wild post-deadline. If the difference between Zanon and Scandella in the playoffs is so much greater than a late 3rd, then other teams are likely going to be willing to pay more than a late 3rd for him. The way I see it, either he's worth only a 3rd and we're willing to part with him for that price or he's worth more than a 3rd and we get that for him.

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07-20-2011, 11:43 AM
  #27
Dr Jan Itor
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Or it's secret door #3, and he's not worth a 3rd, and then GMCF has a tough decision to make.

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07-20-2011, 01:18 PM
  #28
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zanon should be able to fetch a 3rd easy, remember all it takes is an injury he's a rental and he is tough doesn't really miss games. he could fetch a 2nd rounder if a team is willing to pay, also i do believe we ship him simply because i don't see us signing him after this year and a 2nd or 3rd is better. turning a 3rd and a 4th into a 2nd and picking a guy like Zucker or Larsson is better then Zanon.

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07-20-2011, 01:40 PM
  #29
Dr Jan Itor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
zanon should be able to fetch a 3rd easy, remember all it takes is an injury he's a rental and he is tough doesn't really miss games. he could fetch a 2nd rounder if a team is willing to pay, also i do believe we ship him simply because i don't see us signing him after this year and a 2nd or 3rd is better. turning a 3rd and a 4th into a 2nd and picking a guy like Zucker or Larsson is better then Zanon.
I'm all for optimism, but if you think that Zanon's minimum value is a 3rd rounder, I think there's a good chance that you will be disappointed. I like what he brings to the table; his grit, defense, shot blocking, etc..., and I agree that playoff contenders will be looking for a guy like him come the TD, but please tell me why his value is on par with a guy like Eric Brewer, or a round below a guy like Ian White. I think it's a lot safer to expect a 4th, with the possibility of a 3rd if a few teams start a bidding war.

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07-20-2011, 02:36 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I'm all for optimism, but if you think that Zanon's minimum value is a 3rd rounder, I think there's a good chance that you will be disappointed. I like what he brings to the table; his grit, defense, shot blocking, etc..., and I agree that playoff contenders will be looking for a guy like him come the TD, but please tell me why his value is on par with a guy like Eric Brewer, or a round below a guy like Ian White. I think it's a lot safer to expect a 4th, with the possibility of a 3rd if a few teams start a bidding war.
Last year is an awful year for comparison. The only reason (other than easily found information) to use last year is if you want to downplay claims. Here are some trades from the 2010 trade deadline:

Steve Staios - Netted a marginal depth defenseman and a 3rd
Andrew Alberts - 3rd round pick
Aaron Ward - Netted a marginal goaltender and a 4th
Andy Sutton - 2nd
Denis Grebeshkov - 2nd
Jordan Leoplod - 2nd
Niclas Wallin + 5th - 2nd

I'm not saying that Zanon is comparable to all (or even any) of these players, but that's a much better field to look at when trying to judge the possible trade value. I left off trades for less than a fourth (coughskoulacough), included too many pieces, or had roster players of some value coming back.

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07-20-2011, 03:00 PM
  #31
Dr Jan Itor
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Last year is an awful year for comparison. The only reason (other than easily found information) to use last year is if you want to downplay claims. Here are some trades from the 2010 trade deadline:

Steve Staios - Netted a marginal depth defenseman and a 3rd
Andrew Alberts - 3rd round pick
Aaron Ward - Netted a marginal goaltender and a 4th
Andy Sutton - 2nd
Denis Grebeshkov - 2nd
Jordan Leoplod - 2nd
Niclas Wallin + 5th - 2nd

I'm not saying that Zanon is comparable to all (or even any) of these players, but that's a much better field to look at when trying to judge the possible trade value. I left off trades for less than a fourth (coughskoulacough), included too many pieces, or had roster players of some value coming back.
Fair enough, but why do you see this year resembling the 2010 TD and not the 2011 TD? I find it odd to completely ignore the most recent year when trying to determine the present/near future market.

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07-20-2011, 03:19 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Fair enough, but why do you see this year resembling the 2010 TD and not the 2011 TD? I find it odd to completely ignore the most recent year when trying to determine the present/near future market.
Last year was absolutely bizarre. It was rather quiet, and values were all over the place. The primary evaluation of the deadline was that it was completely out of the ordinary. In just Googling for a list of deadline deals to make sure I had my facts straight, it seemed like everyone felt it necessary to comment on how weird it was. There's also the fact that there were only 4 defenseman for picks trades (the three you mentioned plus Wideman for a 3rd and an ECHL player), so it's not much to go by.

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07-20-2011, 03:41 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Last year was absolutely bizarre. It was rather quiet, and values were all over the place. The primary evaluation of the deadline was that it was completely out of the ordinary. In just Googling for a list of deadline deals to make sure I had my facts straight, it seemed like everyone felt it necessary to comment on how weird it was. There's also the fact that there were only 4 defenseman for picks trades (the three you mentioned plus Wideman for a 3rd and an ECHL player), so it's not much to go by.
Sorry, I don't buy it. Weird or not, it's information that I think should be considered. I hope we do get a 2nd for him (if he's dealt), but I'm not going to be holding my breath.

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07-20-2011, 09:41 PM
  #34
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I don't see the Wild trading STONER. If he goes, then the WILD have no one on the blueline who will clear out the slot and stick up for teammates. I mean Zids, Schultz and Spurgie really don't scare anyone with their mean "glare". And they couldn't clear out the slot if their life depended on it.

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07-21-2011, 12:12 AM
  #35
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TSK has stepped to the light side..? If only LiG and SoH would do the same

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07-21-2011, 12:43 AM
  #36
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TSK has stepped to the light side..? If only LiG and SoH would do the same
Hell hasn't frozen over just yet...

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07-21-2011, 06:01 AM
  #37
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I'm getting a feeling Bouchard may be gone here shortly as well by the looks of it along with most likely not resigning Lats varying on how he plays. We almost have too many wingers in the farm system now that are either ready to go or will be in the next 1-2 years.

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07-21-2011, 07:54 AM
  #38
rynryn
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I really really hope no one is expecting our system wingers to step in and be producing 60 points their rookie seasons.

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07-21-2011, 08:10 AM
  #39
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Yeah, people need to take a step back and realize that most wingers don't make an impact until around 23-24. That's 4-6 years after they are drafted people.

I'm excited for Zucker, Coyle, Phillips, and Larrson as much as the next guy. However, I know that you don't push out productive players like Bouchard and Latendresse to make room for unprovens.

Trust me, prospects make the team when guys demand an unreasonable raise and leave. You don't have to push those guys out.

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07-21-2011, 08:25 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
I really really hope no one is expecting our system wingers to step in and be producing 60 points their rookie seasons.
Duh. They're going to produce 80 points.

In all seriousness, from a personel standpoint, I think we're going to be going with 3 scoring lines in two years. Granlund will come over next year and should step into the spot freed up by not re-signing Brodziak. Unless Lats absolutely flops this year, I think we keep him for at least another year or two. That means in two years we only have 4 contract forwards, 2 RFAs, Granlund, and I'm going to assume Lats still (even though he's RFA after this year). It'll look something like this:

x-Koivu-Heatley
Lats-Granlund-Setoguchi
x-x-Clutterbuck
Gillies-x-Powe

That third line looks like a prime spot to shove Zucker and Coyle. They should be able to get enough ice time out of this setup to keep developing, but at the same time they shouldn't be overexposed and cost the team defensively.

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07-21-2011, 10:36 PM
  #41
BigT2002
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
I really really hope no one is expecting our system wingers to step in and be producing 60 points their rookie seasons.
Not stating they will. But at some point you have to cut the cord of the kid and let them play. How do you honestly expect that to happen with the current roster? Someone essentially has to go, and the ones that do are the ones that are expendable or would get the best trade assets for them. Lehitonen (spelling) stated he won't play in the AHL and many of our overseas buddies say this kid has an amazing touch. Coyle, Zucker, Granlund, Gillies, Wellman, Almond.....at some point something will have to give is all I'm saying. At this point Lats and Bouchard are the most expendable on the roster.

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07-21-2011, 10:57 PM
  #42
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I think we'll find out more about who is and isn't expendable as the season actually starts etc.

Also, as we get more scorers etc... if they do indeed develop, you can go with 3 scoring lines and an energy line, so we can actually continue to use a few of the guys we do have if these kids become who we hope they do.

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Old
07-21-2011, 11:15 PM
  #43
rynryn
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At some point, yes, a player's growth may be stunted by sitting back and treading water because of a logjam in front of him. That doesn't mean you just get rid of the guy in front of him (provided he's productive at a reasonable salary) because you're worried that you're wasting a year of the prospect's shelf-life unless you know that guy is a sure thing. Zucker and Coyle are not Duschene and Giroux. Could one or both of them be Skinner? Maybe, but you don't toss aside top six players for a maybe.

Ha--well I'm sure injuries will give us a good look at our younger guys over the next couple years.

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07-21-2011, 11:56 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
At some point, yes, a player's growth may be stunted by sitting back and treading water because of a logjam in front of him. That doesn't mean you just get rid of the guy in front of him (provided he's productive at a reasonable salary) because you're worried that you're wasting a year of the prospect's shelf-life unless you know that guy is a sure thing. Zucker and Coyle are not Duschene and Giroux. Could one or both of them be Skinner? Maybe, but you don't toss aside top six players for a maybe.

Ha--well I'm sure injuries will give us a good look at our younger guys over the next couple years.
I'm sure it will, and I'm not trying to jump to conclusions. But who nets us more of a benefit in the long run? A proven 20-30 goal scorer in Lats and 60 point player in Bouchard or the newbies who maybe hit 10-30 points varying on how much playing they have and the promise they show while they are playing?? At some point RFA runs out on these guys and many are more likely to wanna jump ship because of it.

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