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Who will be on our 3rd line?

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Old
07-20-2011, 01:43 PM
  #1
joshjull
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Who will be on our 3rd line?

Who is on it?
Who is centering it?
Assuming Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Ennis, Leino, Stafford are in the top 6.



I'm going with Gerbe/Hecht/Boyes as the 3rd line barring any surprises in camp like Adam making the team.

If Adam makes the team I think he would center it and it would look like this; Hecht/Adam/Boyes with a 4th line of Gerbe/Goose/Kaleta or McCormick.

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07-20-2011, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Who is on it?
Who is centering it?
Assuming Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Ennis, Leino, Stafford is in the top 6.


I'm going with Gerbe/Hecht/Boyes as the 3rd line barring any surprises in camp.

If Adam makes the team I think he would center it and it would look like this Hecht/Adam/Boyes with a 4th line of Gerbe/Goose/Kaleta or McCormick.
That's the line I want as well as of now.

Ideally, they'd add another center in a trade or Adam makes the team out of camp so Hecht can move to the wing, but I can definitely live with that as the team's "3rd line."

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07-20-2011, 02:08 PM
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I could also see a Gerbe-Roy-Stafford 2nd line if Ruff wants to distribute scoring among 3 lines more evenly.

Vanek-Leino-Pominville
Gerbe-Roy-Stafford
Ennis-Adam/Hecht-Boyes
Hecht/McCormack-Gaustad-Kaleta

We've all seen how Ruff often times hasn't rolled with a traditional Top 6, and instead go with a more balanced scoring Top 9.

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07-20-2011, 02:12 PM
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Most likely Gerbe/Hecht/Boyes but, I would like to see Gerbe/Adam/Boyes.

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07-20-2011, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Lindy4Prez View Post
I could also see a Gerbe-Roy-Stafford 2nd line if Ruff wants to distribute scoring among 3 lines more evenly.

Vanek-Leino-Pominville
Gerbe-Roy-Stafford
Ennis-Adam/Hecht-Boyes
Hecht/McCormack-Gaustad-Kaleta

We've all seen how Ruff often times hasn't rolled with a traditional Top 6, and instead go with a more balanced scoring Top 9.
This is Ruff, a lot of guys will getting bounced around from week to week to week.

I could see a whole mix of 3rd lines during the first month or two of the season:

Vanek-Hecht-Boyes
Gerbe-Adam-Pominville
Gerbe-Hecht-Boyes
Hecht-Adam-Boyes
Hecht-Adam-Stafford
Hecht-Adam-Pominville
Ennis-Hecht-Boyes

It's a ping pong ball hopper that who knows what Ruff will end up with.

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07-20-2011, 02:19 PM
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I'm tired of seeing Gerbe on the 4th line. He cracks the 3rd line and stays there for a majority of the year, with Gaustad/Hecht and Boyes.

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07-20-2011, 02:28 PM
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For the love of god, I hope gaustad isn't given the 3rd center. I would like to see a line of

Gerbe-Adam-Hecht

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07-20-2011, 02:29 PM
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I'd like to see Gerbe-Hecht-Pominville. Hecht-Pominville have been solid together in the past and could really open up some ice for Gerbe. It'd also allow Boyes to play in the top 6 with some more offensive guys, which might suit him a little better. Something like Vanek-Leino-Boyes and Ennis-Roy-Stafford in the top 6.

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07-20-2011, 02:33 PM
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I kinda liked seeing Gerbe playing with McCormick. They had some real chemistry. What about them together and adding Boyes as a playmaker?

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07-20-2011, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindy4Prez View Post
I could also see a Gerbe-Roy-Stafford 2nd line if Ruff wants to distribute scoring among 3 lines more evenly.

Vanek-Leino-Pominville
Gerbe-Roy-Stafford
Ennis-Adam/Hecht-Boyes
Hecht/McCormack-Gaustad-Kaleta

We've all seen how Ruff often times hasn't rolled with a traditional Top 6, and instead go with a more balanced scoring Top 9.
Very true.

Something to remember from the past season. In the 2nd half after switching to the 3 scoring lines these were our lines for the majority of that time.

Vanek/Hecht or Connolly/Pommer
Ennis/Connolly or Hecht/Stafford
Gerbe/Goose/Mancari or Kaleta

Boyes came on board at the deadline after a short bit had to fill in for an injured Hecht at center in the top 6.

With that set up obviously Vanek/Pommer and Ennis/Stafford were great. But Gerbe and Goose also tore it up from January on with minimal help from their linemates. Goose was on a 17g 40pt pace in those 44 games and Gerbe in 40gms had 15g 9a 24pts (a 30g 49 pt pace). Thats fantastic production from a 3rd line.

My point is I don't think they need to flip Ennis and Gerbe in order to have balance and scoring on all 3 lines. If Gerbe and Goose were able to do what they did offensively on the 3rd line. I'm pretty sure a more offensively talented combo of Gerbe/Hecht/Boyes will be able to produce quite effectively as the 3rd line.

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07-20-2011, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by OkimLom View Post
For the love of god, I hope gaustad isn't given the 3rd center. I would like to see a line of

Gerbe-Adam-Hecht
I'm amazed after the season he just had that some posters still have this mentality. I don't want him there this year because we have better options like Hecht or possibly Adam. But its nice knowing he can fill in if needed.

Btw neither Gerbe nor Hecht are RWs in the NHL. But if I was going to put them on a line together I think Gerbe would be the more likely choice to play RW. Thats an intriguing line idea.


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07-20-2011, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Dabs21Nike View Post
I'd like to see Gerbe-Hecht-Pominville. Hecht-Pominville have been solid together in the past and could really open up some ice for Gerbe. It'd also allow Boyes to play in the top 6 with some more offensive guys, which might suit him a little better. Something like Vanek-Leino-Boyes and Ennis-Roy-Stafford in the top 6.
Pommer is the only proven top line RW on this team. He and Vanek had fantastic chemistry last season.

After the success this past season of the Vanek/Pommer and Ennis/Stafford pairings. Why would you want to start changing things up? Especially to accommodate Boyes who never been the top RW on a successful team that I'm aware of.

I guess my point is along the lines of if it aint broke don't fix it. Those wing combos (Vanek/Pommer and Ennis/Stafford) were great together.

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07-20-2011, 02:55 PM
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Did somebody say Mancari?

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07-20-2011, 02:57 PM
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I will personally hunt down Ruff and kick his ass, if Gaustad is on any line but the 4th this season. I don't care if the 3rd line center is Adam or Hecht, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE....no Gaustad.

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07-20-2011, 02:59 PM
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I think Hecht has to go to the 4th line (assuming we have adam or someone else to center that line)....Even though his salary doesn't reflect a 4th liner....

Gerbe impressed me enough that he deserves to be on the 3rd line.

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07-20-2011, 02:59 PM
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This hints at something that is bothering me about the current roster makeup of the team. Hell, I even have some notes about it for statistical props somewhere too.

The most imposing physical player in their top 9 is Nathan Gerbe. Let me type that out again. The most imposing physical player in the Sabres top 9 is Nathan Gerbe.

I do not like the mix right now, up front or to be honest on defense. This reminds me a lot of the President's Trophy winning team in many ways, albeit without the depth down the middle. There is very little bite from the top 9 and there are too many defensemen (4, perhaps 5) who don't have much snarl to their game at all.

In:
Regehr - 79 gp, 180 hits (1st on his team), 142 blocks (1st on his team)
Ehrhoff - 79 gp, 54 hits, 108 blocks (2nd) (28/26 in 23 playoff games)
Leino - 81 gp, 35 hits, 40 blocks (11/3 in post season)
Gragnani - 9 GP, 6 hits, 6 blocks

Out:
Butler - 49 gp, 38 hits, 56 blocks -- 7 gp , 11 h, 11 bs
Montador - 73 gp, 86 hits, 138 blocks -- 6 gp, 7 h, 9 bs,
Morrisonn - 62 gp, 110 hits, 86 blocks -- 1 gp, 1 h, 1 bs
Grier - 73 gp, 112 hits, 48 blocks -- 7 gp, 17 h, 3 bs
(Nieds)

Perhaps someone will surprise me (Stafford?) with some more contact, but right now, they look like a skating squad that isn't built to initiate contact.

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07-20-2011, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum View Post
Did somebody say Mancari?
Vancouver did. Joshjull said it in reference to last year.

Do I continue on my tirade about how Stafford's 30G pace might not be duplicated; thus, removal from "top 6" and placement on the third line is possible?

Also, it's foolish to think Ruff truly believes Roy/Vanek won't be linemates at some point again. Roy got hurt, Vanek picked his game up...Ruff isn't ignorant enough to equate the two with absolute certainty.

What am I getting at? Something like:

Vanek - Roy - Poms
Ennis - Leino - Boyes
Gerbe - Hecht - Staff


Can swap Boyes/Stafford, obviously.

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07-20-2011, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaporTrail View Post
I think Hecht has to go to the 4th line (assuming we have adam or someone else to center that line)....Even though his salary doesn't reflect a 4th liner....

Gerbe impressed me enough that he deserves to be on the 3rd line.
I have a feeling if Adam makes the team and pushes Hecht back to wing that we will have a 3a/3b situation. With their play and the opponent determining ice time.

With Adam making the team the 3a/3b lines would likely be;

Hecht/Adam/Boyes
Gerbe/Goose/Kaleta or McCormick

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07-20-2011, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I do not like the mix right now, up front or to be honest on defense. This reminds me a lot of the President's Trophy winning team in many ways, albeit without the depth down the middle. There is very little bite from the top 9 and there are too many defensemen (4, perhaps 5) who don't have much snarl to their game at all.

In:
Regehr - 79 gp, 180 hits (1st on his team), 142 blocks (1st on his team)
Ehrhoff - 79 gp, 54 hits, 108 blocks (2nd) (28/26 in 23 playoff games)
Leino - 81 gp, 35 hits, 40 blocks (11/3 in post season)
Gragnani - 9 GP, 6 hits, 6 blocks

Out:
Butler - 49 gp, 38 hits, 56 blocks -- 7 gp , 11 h, 11 bs
Montador - 73 gp, 86 hits, 138 blocks -- 6 gp, 7 h, 9 bs,
Morrisonn - 62 gp, 110 hits, 86 blocks -- 1 gp, 1 h, 1 bs
Grier - 73 gp, 112 hits, 48 blocks -- 7 gp, 17 h, 3 bs
(Nieds)

Perhaps someone will surprise me (Stafford?) with some more contact, but right now, they look like a skating squad that isn't built to initiate contact.
Really? The argument is valid for the forwards, but defensively? You've got two guys KNOWN for stay-at-home presense and physical play in Regehr and Weber, you've got a known offensive minded guy in Ehrhoff, and a guy in Myers capable of anything. That defense is SO different than the Presidents Trophy team that it should dispel any relations to it immediately.

Your concern about lack of physicality in the top-9 is valid. But I disagree with the bolded for sure.

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07-20-2011, 03:05 PM
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I kinda liked seeing Gerbe playing with McCormick. They had some real chemistry. What about them together and adding Boyes as a playmaker?
I think judging from the past it's much better for Boyes to be on the wing rather than at center. Here have some poutine

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07-20-2011, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Vancouver did. Joshjull said it in reference to last year.

Do I continue on my tirade about how Stafford's 30G pace might not be duplicated; thus, removal from "top 6" and placement on the third line is possible?

Also, it's foolish to think Ruff truly believes Roy/Vanek won't be linemates at some point again. Roy got hurt, Vanek picked his game up...Ruff isn't ignorant enough to equate the two with absolute certainty.

What am I getting at? Something like:

Vanek - Roy - Poms
Ennis - Leino - Boyes
Gerbe - Hecht - Staff


Can swap Boyes/Stafford, obviously.

That second line worries me, honestly. The Vanek-Pominville and Ennis-Stafford tandems worked well last season. I would be surprised if Ruff doesn't at least try working on those. There is one larger player on each line, albeit one not known for making much contact. Putting Ennis-Leino-Boyes together is a lot of small/quick that I would try putting through the glass in their own zone if I was an opponent.

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07-20-2011, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
This hints at something that is bothering me about the current roster makeup of the team. Hell, I even have some notes about it for statistical props somewhere too.

The most imposing physical player in their top 9 is Nathan Gerbe. Let me type that out again. The most imposing physical player in the Sabres top 9 is Nathan Gerbe.

I do not like the mix right now, up front or to be honest on defense. This reminds me a lot of the President's Trophy winning team in many ways, albeit without the depth down the middle. There is very little bite from the top 9 and there are too many defensemen (4, perhaps 5) who don't have much snarl to their game at all.

In:
Regehr - 79 gp, 180 hits (1st on his team), 142 blocks (1st on his team)
Ehrhoff - 79 gp, 54 hits, 108 blocks (2nd) (28/26 in 23 playoff games)
Leino - 81 gp, 35 hits, 40 blocks (11/3 in post season)
Gragnani - 9 GP, 6 hits, 6 blocks

Out:
Butler - 49 gp, 38 hits, 56 blocks -- 7 gp , 11 h, 11 bs
Montador - 73 gp, 86 hits, 138 blocks -- 6 gp, 7 h, 9 bs,
Morrisonn - 62 gp, 110 hits, 86 blocks -- 1 gp, 1 h, 1 bs
Grier - 73 gp, 112 hits, 48 blocks -- 7 gp, 17 h, 3 bs
(Nieds)

Perhaps someone will surprise me (Stafford?) with some more contact, but right now, they look like a skating squad that isn't built to initiate contact.
Adam could be an additon of size and physical play in the top 9. He has shown shown inclination to intitate physically and IIRC he seems to have shown more of it in prospects camp.

I also think guys like Hecht, Pommer and Vanek have shown a willingness to take a beating to make things happen. Plus Roy, Ennis and Stafford are willing to go in the danger areas to make plays.

They certainly wont be pounding other teams with that forward group. But lets be honest , we really took it to the Flyers and few expected us to do so like we did. Plus the Cup winning Bruins were not all that physical or big up front. They had only 2 forwards over 200lbs (Lucic + Hornton). Their forecheck's effectiveness was more about speed and tenacity than size and nasty. Though their defense certainly has a good amount of size and nasty.


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07-20-2011, 03:17 PM
  #23
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Really? The argument is valid for the forwards, but defensively? You've got two guys KNOWN for stay-at-home presense and physical play in Regehr and Weber, you've got a known offensive minded guy in Ehrhoff, and a guy in Myers capable of anything. That defense is SO different than the Presidents Trophy team that it should dispel any relations to it immediately.

Your concern about lack of physicality in the top-9 is valid. But I disagree with the bolded for sure.
Regehr and Weber are 2 of seven guys who have a rep for being snarly and to be blunt, neither one fights/wins if it comes to that. Five of the rest aren't, even if we keep looking to justify it from Myers as he's matured. Myers is the key -- if he is blasting guys into the wall simply by overpowering them with a shove, good. If he drags someone out of a scrum around the net and beats the guy into next week -- better. I still don't like the mix. Too sweet back there.

Similarly, up front they don't impose in the top 9. Transition? Sure. But when things get gritty, I wonder how they're going to respond. I want to see Vanek and Stafford stepping into people to chip them off the play when they can -- simple takeouts. It is so much easier to win possession when your check is getting up off the ice.

They need a combo of Grier-Niedermayer as a depth forward and frankly, Ellis is not it. He's a good team-guy who will be wearing a letter in Rochester and the first recall due to cost and staff trust. A center who can play the wing, take the body with regularity, and PK.

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07-20-2011, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
This hints at something that is bothering me about the current roster makeup of the team. Hell, I even have some notes about it for statistical props somewhere too.

The most imposing physical player in their top 9 is Nathan Gerbe. Let me type that out again. The most imposing physical player in the Sabres top 9 is Nathan Gerbe.

I do not like the mix right now, up front or to be honest on defense. This reminds me a lot of the President's Trophy winning team in many ways, albeit without the depth down the middle. There is very little bite from the top 9 and there are too many defensemen (4, perhaps 5) who don't have much snarl to their game at all.

In:
Regehr - 79 gp, 180 hits (1st on his team), 142 blocks (1st on his team)
Ehrhoff - 79 gp, 54 hits, 108 blocks (2nd) (28/26 in 23 playoff games)
Leino - 81 gp, 35 hits, 40 blocks (11/3 in post season)
Gragnani - 9 GP, 6 hits, 6 blocks

Out:
Butler - 49 gp, 38 hits, 56 blocks -- 7 gp , 11 h, 11 bs
Montador - 73 gp, 86 hits, 138 blocks -- 6 gp, 7 h, 9 bs,
Morrisonn - 62 gp, 110 hits, 86 blocks -- 1 gp, 1 h, 1 bs
Grier - 73 gp, 112 hits, 48 blocks -- 7 gp, 17 h, 3 bs
(Nieds)

Perhaps someone will surprise me (Stafford?) with some more contact, but right now, they look like a skating squad that isn't built to initiate contact.
I'm definitely not liking the lack of physicality here...Looks like a good regular season squad but could definitely could be suspect come the postseason. I guess I never really looked at the big picture...I was thinking we need a big center though...

Personally I'd like to see Roy go, and in some way we get a #1 a/b center who is physical to replace him...

And anyone - Don't ask me how to get this center...I'm not Darcy.

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07-20-2011, 03:27 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Regehr and Weber are 2 of seven guys who have a rep for being snarly and to be blunt, neither one fights/wins if it comes to that. Five of the rest aren't, even if we keep looking to justify it from Myers as he's matured. Myers is the key -- if he is blasting guys into the wall simply by overpowering them with a shove, good. If he drags someone out of a scrum around the net and beats the guy into next week -- better. I still don't like the mix. Too sweet back there.

Similarly, up front they don't impose in the top 9. Transition? Sure. But when things get gritty, I wonder how they're going to respond. I want to see Vanek and Stafford stepping into people to chip them off the play when they can -- simple takeouts. It is so much easier to win possession when your check is getting up off the ice.

They need a combo of Grier-Niedermayer as a depth forward and frankly, Ellis is not it. He's a good team-guy who will be wearing a letter in Rochester and the first recall due to cost and staff trust. A center who can play the wing, take the body with regularity, and PK.
Oddly enough our new depth up front essentially makes Goose that guy. He will be getting less ice time with this group of forwards and I think it will allow his defensive and physical games to be improved. You could also argue Kaleta and to a lesser extent McCormick are those depth guys as well.

Plus this is a process where all the pieces will not be in place this year. With Adam, Kassian and Foligno pushing for spots in the next few years as well as a UFA additions or trades. We're on the right track and aren'tt far off from where we need to be.

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