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Around The NHL Part XVII (Dog Days of Summer)

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Old
08-19-2011, 05:11 PM
  #876
NYR Sting
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
He has a long way to go to become a regular NHL player, let alone a good 2-way 2nd line center.
That's really not a fair assessment at all. He played in 28 games last season, and rarely looked out of place. Becoming a regular NHLer means having a fundamental base, and as I said, fundamentals are Josefson's strong suit. If he proved anything last season, is that 2-way play is already something he can provide. He has no longer a way to go than most prospects of his caliber do or did, and that includes Anisimov, who scored 28 points as a 21 year old rookie in the NHL. Josefson scored 10 points in 28 games. That's the same exact PPG ratio, in fact, slightly higher in Josefson's favor.

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08-19-2011, 05:12 PM
  #877
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I don't buy that one bit...I'm really not sure how you can say that. The absolute only thing you can point to to make that claim is a 40 game stretch where his entire team was atrocious.

He was top 3 in June of 2010. He fell out of the top 10 by December of 2010? Does that really make any sense to you? Seriously?

The team had some problem Marty didn’t play particularly well either…But you have to close your eyes to the second half play to calm he isn’t a top 10 goalie. At the begin of this season You wouldn’t have had Thomas in the top 10 either…Hell, He LOST his starting position one year previously.

And Brodeur had better number than Miller, Lundqvist and in the second half....So not really sure on what basis you making that claim.
The season is 82 games long though. We can't ignore the 1st half like it didn't happen. If he was good enough, he would have had a higher save percentage than .900. Save percentage is essentially relies more on the individual goalie than the team. The goalies playing on the worst teams have good save percentage, Devan Dubnyk had a great save percentage and his GAA indicates that the team in front of him left him out to dry.

10 Goalies better than Brodeur at this moment:

Thomas
Lundqvist
Luongo
Bryzgalov
Ward
Price
Rinne
Fleury
Miller
Vokoun

And it's debatable when you discuss other goalies such as Rask, Halak, Schneider, Hiller, Niemi, Quick.

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Old
08-19-2011, 05:17 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
That's really not a fair assessment at all. He played in 28 games last season, and rarely looked out of place. Becoming a regular NHLer means having a fundamental base, and as I said, fundamentals are Josefson's strong suit. If he proved anything last season, is that 2-way play is already something he can provide. He has no longer a way to go than most prospects of his caliber do or did, and that includes Anisimov, who scored 28 points as a 21 year old rookie in the NHL. Josefson scored 10 points in 28 games. That's the same exact PPG ratio, in fact, slightly higher in Josefson's favor.
As mentioned, Anisimov proved he can score in the AHL before he played his first game. Josefson? Well to an extent, I just think it may have been better letting him develop slowly.

If Josefson was on the same leash that AA was on, he wouldn't get the same # of points.

Besides all players have different development paths. I just don't see the hype in the two Swedish forwards. And many of you are gonna claim I'm biased, this is true I hate the Devils but I give credit when it's due. I know Larsson will be their franchise defenseman and will quickly emerge as a top 4 defenseman, probably in his rookie year.

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Old
08-19-2011, 05:17 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
The season is 82 games long though. We can't ignore the 1st half like it didn't happen. If he was good enough, he would have had a higher save percentage than .900. Save percentage is essentially relies more on the individual goalie than the team. The goalies playing on the worst teams have good save percentage, Devan Dubnyk had a great save percentage and his GAA indicates that the team in front of him left him out to dry.

10 Goalies better than Brodeur at this moment:

Thomas
Lundqvist
Luongo
Bryzgalov
Ward
Price
Rinne
Fleury
Miller
Vokoun

And it's debatable when you discuss other goalies such as Rask, Halak, Schneider, Hiller, Niemi, Quick.
Where is your evidence? I can make a list also and slot Brodeur where ever I feel like it....but in the second half of last season nearly none of those names had better numbers than Brodeur.

At The Moment? At the moment Brodeur finished the season as a top 3 goalie by the numbers

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Old
08-19-2011, 05:21 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Where is your evidence? I make a list also and slot Brodeur where ever I feel like it....but in the second half of last season nearly none of those names had better numbers than Brodeur.
Statistics. We can't ignore what happened in the first half of the season where he didn't look NHL caliber. 2nd half was when the team had no pressure and started to win games. JS Aubin one year finished the year 9-0 with a miniscule GAA.

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08-19-2011, 05:30 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Statistics. We can't ignore what happened in the first half of the season where he didn't look NHL caliber. 2nd half was when the team had no pressure and started to win games. JS Aubin one year finished the year 9-0 with a miniscule GAA.
We are talking a half season not 9 games....And I would buy your arguement about "No Presure to win games" if Brodeur hadn't been a top 5 goalie since 1995 only to have one half of a poor season where his entire team was worse than bad..

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We can't ignore what happened in the first half of the season where he didn't look NHL caliber.
Are you kidding? He had 2 shutouts in his first 7 games and ONLY had 2 wins....The team wasn't scoring and wasn't playing defense and if he didn't stand on his head there wouldn't have even been those 2 wins. In the first month of the season the team scored more than two goals once in regulation.

You arguement doesn't have a lot of substance.

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Old
08-19-2011, 05:35 PM
  #882
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We are talking a half season not 9 games....And I would buy your arguement about "No Presure to win games" if Brodeur hadn't been a top 5 goalie since 1995 only to have one half of a poor season where his entire team was worse than bad..



Are you kidding? He had 2 shutouts in his first 7 games and ONLY had 2 wins....The team wasn't scoring and wasn't playing defense and if he didn't stand on his head there wouldn't have even been those 2 wins. In the first month of the season the team scored more than two goals once in regulation.

You arguement doesn't have a lot of substance.
When it comes to Brodeur supporters, they always bring up the past. He's not a top 10 goalie today. We can agree to disagree, it's the end of an era for the best goalie ever.

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Old
08-19-2011, 05:35 PM
  #883
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Are you seriously arguing Fatso is still a top 5 goalie?

Ridiculous.

edit- He's not even the best goalie ever. I take Roy and Hasek over him in a heartbeat. Top 5 all time? Absolutely. Best ever? No.

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08-19-2011, 05:41 PM
  #884
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Yeah I forgot about Roy. I'll take him over Marty, he's #2 for me.

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08-19-2011, 05:45 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
When it comes to Brodeur supporters, they always bring up the past. He's not a top 10 goalie today. We can agree to disagree, it's the end of an era for the best goalie ever.
I'm not talking about the past, I'm talking about how the season ended which is the most recent of stats.

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08-19-2011, 05:46 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Actually, Anisimov is a great comparable to Josefson, who plays a very similar style. BB was right on the money by saying that Josefson is going to be the Devils' Artie
Can't take credit for that - Boyler got to it. I just used Anisimov as an example of why you can't judge a player's potential offensive after 1 NHL season.

I do, however, feel the same way.

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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Of course it did. Anisimov had a successful rookie reason where he was on a short leash by coach Tortorella. Before stepping into the NHL, Anisimov had 2 productive AHL seasons. One of the seasons in which he was a PPG player. Those stats indicate that Anisimov has been a success at that point playing in North America.
Was Josefson not on a short leash? His coach was Jacques Lemaire, a coach who is notorious for his handling of rookies. However, at 19, Josefson earned the trust of one of the most respected and stubborn coaches in the history of the league. AHL seasons mean nothing. In fact, it's even more impressive that he stuck at the NHL level at that age. He earned his spot. The Devils won't send him down when he deserves to play at the NHL level.

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It is since he hasn't shown much offense to be considered a future 2nd line center. There needs to be glimpse of dominating shifts, racking up a decent P/60 mins but he has not done that. He could be an elite checking 3rd line center like Pahlsson.
He's played 29 games at the NHL level. You can't base his entire future as an NHLer on 29 games.

Also, if we're talking about a potential 2nd line player, why must he have "dominating shifts"? 2nd line players generally don't "dominate" the game.

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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Points don't mean everything agreed. But it is a big factor when evaluating players. I prefer P/60 minutes and Josefson's isn't good enough to be labelled as future 2nd line center.
Again, he's played 29 games at the NHL level. As a 19 year old. Do you expect him to come in and put up PPG numbers? It's called development, just because he hasn't put up points right away doesn't mean a thing for his career. He played well, and that's all that matters at this point. After 2/3 full NHL seasons, if he still isn't putting up better numbers, fine, use that against him as much as you please. But, untill then, the stats are basically meaningless.

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Old
08-19-2011, 05:46 PM
  #887
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I'm not talking about the past, I'm talking about how the season ended which is the most recent of stats.
James Reimer is better than Lundqvist, Miller, Luongo, etc. You heard it hear folks.

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Old
08-19-2011, 05:51 PM
  #888
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Can't take credit for that - Boyler got to it. I just used Anisimov as an example of why you can't judge a player's potential offensive after 1 NHL season.

I do, however, feel the same way.



Was Josefson not on a short leash? His coach was Jacques Lemaire, a coach who is notorious for his handling of rookies. However, at 19, Josefson earned the trust of one of the most respected and stubborn coaches in the history of the league. AHL seasons mean nothing. In fact, it's even more impressive that he stuck at the NHL level at that age. He earned his spot. The Devils won't send him down when he deserves to play at the NHL level.



He's played 29 games at the NHL level. You can't base his entire future as an NHLer on 29 games.

Also, if we're talking about a potential 2nd line player, why must he have "dominating shifts"? 2nd line players generally don't "dominate" the game.



Again, he's played 29 games at the NHL level. As a 19 year old. Do you expect him to come in and put up PPG numbers? It's called development, just because he hasn't put up points right away doesn't mean a thing for his career. He played well, and that's all that matters at this point. After 2/3 full NHL seasons, if he still isn't putting up better numbers, fine, use that against him as much as you please. But, untill then, the stats are basically meaningless.

No I do not expect a 19 year old rookie to be a PPG player. I expect some sparks of offense, haven't seen it with Josefson. 19 year olds shouldn't be on rosters, unless they are good enough to produce in the NHL. They should have brought him up this year and let him play in Sweden the past year.

This is really going nowhere since we share different opinions, your opinion isn't wrong, my opinion isn't wrong. All we can do is wait and see if he does become an NHL player.....

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Old
08-19-2011, 06:14 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
James Reimer is better than Lundqvist, Miller, Luongo, etc. You heard it hear folks.
Except Riemer didn't have better numbers than those players, only played a half,and has absolutely no history of any success or failure ... again your arguments do not contain any evidence or substance.

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Old
08-19-2011, 06:35 PM
  #890
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Apparently Jonas Hiller is free of vertigo sympoms, which is fantastic news.

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08-19-2011, 06:36 PM
  #891
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You're delusional if you think Brodeur is an elite goalie

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08-19-2011, 06:37 PM
  #892
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I am definitely no fan of Josefsson. And definitely never been (even before drafted by NJD).

But if anyone can make a player out of him, it's them I guess. But I really lack energy in his game.

Tedenby is a solid kid. He is so good at what he does that he is worth to put on 3rd line just to get his energy. Will never become a star though.

Larsson? Solid top 2 D, not much more to say at this point. Understandable that he did not go 1st overall, everyone and anyone had him there a year ago, but I wrote back then that it would never happened.

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08-19-2011, 06:45 PM
  #893
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I hate that franchise and its fans more than anything. Hopefully Parise does leave.
THE DEVILS, THE DEVILLLSSSSSS!!
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Old
08-19-2011, 06:49 PM
  #894
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Apparently Jonas Hiller is free of vertigo sympoms, which is fantastic news.
Fantastic news for Ducks fans, maybe.

Kidding, kidding. Great to see he's healthy. He's a nasty goalie and to have him fully healthy with the potent Ducks offense should be amazing for that franchise. Now if they could build a stronger defensive d-corp around (less so, since he's 35) Visnovsky and (more so) Fowler, they'll be set. Scared to see how good that team is in a few years.

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08-19-2011, 11:48 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
We are talking a half season not 9 games....And I would buy your arguement about "No Presure to win games" if Brodeur hadn't been a top 5 goalie since 1995 only to have one half of a poor season where his entire team was worse than bad..



Are you kidding? He had 2 shutouts in his first 7 games and ONLY had 2 wins....The team wasn't scoring and wasn't playing defense and if he didn't stand on his head there wouldn't have even been those 2 wins. In the first month of the season the team scored more than two goals once in regulation.

You arguement doesn't have a lot of substance.
A season is 82 games. Anyone can cherry pick stats like you are. Just ask Leaf fans.

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Old
08-20-2011, 12:26 AM
  #896
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No. I think they'll finish 7th or so. I'm mainly speaking towards the "they'll be a lottery team" crowd.
You have to consider that with the loss of White and an oft-injured Volchenkov, this is clearly the worst defense Marty has ever had in front of him.

Granted, the Rangersd were green as a group last year, but they had a legit top-2 and Henrik.

I dont think Marty has EVER carried a depleted team like the one the Devils start the season with. Plus, he's almost 40.

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08-20-2011, 08:08 AM
  #897
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I am definitely no fan of Josefsson. And definitely never been (even before drafted by NJD).

But if anyone can make a player out of him, it's them I guess. But I really lack energy in his game.

Tedenby is a solid kid. He is so good at what he does that he is worth to put on 3rd line just to get his energy. Will never become a star though.

Larsson? Solid top 2 D, not much more to say at this point. Understandable that he did not go 1st overall, everyone and anyone had him there a year ago, but I wrote back then that it would never happened.
So based on what you've seen Ola, who's better, Larsson or Erixon? (Careful though, the wrong answer could really throw the Devils tweeners into a frothy rage.)

As for Tedenby and Josefson, even if they live up to their billing, they're not going to throw the Devils rebuild into high gear. They need a lot more depth on both sides of the ice.

The Zajac injury and a few lost points early in the season could make the POs much harder to achieve, even if the Swedes are performing.

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08-20-2011, 08:11 AM
  #898
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Apparently Jonas Hiller is free of vertigo sympoms, which is fantastic news.
Yup, good news indeed. I can't recall how he came down with it in the first place???

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08-20-2011, 08:15 AM
  #899
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Yup, good news indeed. I can't recall how he came down with it in the first place???
Got clocked in the mask with a shot at the All-Star game.

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08-20-2011, 08:33 AM
  #900
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Got clocked in the mask with a shot at the All-Star game.
That's not good - another shot in the mask or someone driving hard to the net could spell trouble for him. I'm sure Fowler will clear the crease though...

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