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Official Discussion Thread: Comparing the 2011 Blackhawks with the 2010 team.

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07-22-2011, 12:44 PM
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Recoil
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Official Discussion Thread: Comparing the 2011 Blackhawks with the 2010 team.

Hello everyone. There has been a lot of discussion surrounding the off-season moves. One hotly debated topic is what the roster will look like, and we have a “Version 5” thread discussing just that. However something else that is debated across the forum is whether this team is as good as last year’s team. I decided to take a deep dive into some comparisons and put things together. It’s a long read, but if you have time, take a look and let me know what you think. More importantly, feel free to discuss what you think of my analysis and how this team shapes up with last year’s team. Try to keep the discussion related to that topic, and save the “well if we get player X, or if player Y ends up playing” for the Roster thread. I’ve got three line-ups below. (1) The Hawks 2010 team at the start of last season. (2) The team after the trade deadline moves through the end of last season. (3) Our apparent team to start the 2011 season.

The Rosters

2010-2011 Season Start Team

Forwards
Troy Brouwer / Jonathan Toews / Patrick Kane
Tomas Kopecky / Patrick Sharp / Marian Hossa
Brian Bickell / Dave Bolland / Viktor Stalberg
Jack Skille / Jake Dowell / Fernando Pisani

Alternate Forwads: Ryan Johnson

Defensemen
Duncan Keith / Brent Seabrook
Niklas Hjalmarsson / Brian Campbell
Nick Boynton / Jassen Cullimore

Alternate Defensemen: Jordan Hendry, John Scott

Notable Departures: Jack Skille (F), Nick Boynton (D), Jason Cullimore (D)

2010-2011 Post Trade Deadline Team

Forwards
Troy Brouwer / Jonathan Toews / Patrick Kane
Tomas Kopecky / Patrick Sharp / Marian Hossa
Brian Bickell / Dave Bolland / Michael Frolik
Fernando Pisani / Jake Dowell / Viktor Stalberg

Alternate Forwards: Ryan Johnson

Defensemen
Duncan Keith / Brent Seabrook
Niklas Hjalmarsson / Brian Campbell
Nick Leddy / Chris Campoli

Alternate Defensemen: Jordan Hendry, John Scott

Notable Departures: Troy Brouwer (F), Tomas Kopecky (F), Fernando Pisani (F), Ryan Johnson (F), Jake Dowell (F), Brian Campbell (D), Chris Campoli (D)

2011-2012 Season Start Team

Forwards
Andrew Burnette / Jonathan Toews / Patrick Kane
Michael Frolik / Patrick Sharp / Marian Hossa
Brian Bickell / Dave Bolland / Rostislav Olesz
Daniel Carcillo / Jamal Mayers / Viktor Stalberg

Defensemen
Duncan Keith / Brent Seabrook
Niklas Hjalmarsson / Steve Montador
Nick Leddy / Sean O’Donnell

Alternate Defensemen: Sami Lepisto, John Scott

Notable Additions: Andrew Burnette (F), Rostislav Olesz (F), Daniel Carcillo (F), Jamal Mayers (F), Steve Montador (D), Sean O’Donnell (D), Sami Lepisto (D)

Comparing the teams

Now for what we all want to talk about. How does our team this year look to stack up to the team at the start of last season that got us off to such a slow start, and, how does it stack up with the team that made a huge push to make the playoffs in a tough conference and take the #1 seeded Vancouver Canucks to seven games. Given how much line shuffling happens with Coach Q I’m going to try to refrain from doing line by line comparisons for the most part, but simply focus on old vs. new. Also understand my “2011 Season Start” roster is very much assumed. It may change after training camp. I chose to just take a stab at how the team may look and run the comparison there.

2010-2011 Season Start vs. 2011-2012 Season Start Comparison

(F) Jack Skille < Michael Frolik (UPGRADE): This was a trade deadline move that looks so far like Bowman got away with another felony crime. Jack Skille was one of a few prospects that we had to force up to the NHL, probably before he was ready, due to our cap situation last year. He was never much than a 4th line grinder. His effort on the ice was always 110%, but he had no scoring touch and was always out of control. When he had the puck on his stick, he would either shoot it at the logo on the opposing goalie’s chest, or wipe out trying to crash the net with it. Passing was almost never on his mind. Frolik, on the other hand, while also in a scoring slump when we got him, picked up his game at the end of last season and into the playoffs. There is optimism that once he learned the Hawks system, what we saw at the end of the year is what we can expect this year. He already has two 20 goal, 40+ point seasons, has good finishing skill, and plays a surprisingly physical game at times. He was a great fit on the 3rd line with Bolland but may see some time on the 2nd line at some point this year. Either way, this one is easy to call. This move was a major upgrade for the Hawks.

(D) Nick Boynton < Nick Leddy (UPGRADE): While Leddy did play with the team half of last season, when comparing the team at the start of last season to this one, you have to look at this matchup. Boynton was put on waivers a few weeks after Leddy settled in, the team obviously happy with his production. I’m not going to spend a ton of time on this pairing, it is one that as time goes on will be like night and day. Boynton was an adequate defensemen, but that’s about it. He was slow, he made a lot bone headed plays trying to clear the puck that cost the Hawks a couple of games last season, and he had a habit of injuring star players in practice. Leddy is the person the Hawks hope to have replace Brian Campbell’s production in a couple of seasons. He only has 46 games in the NHL under his belt, but will look to grow as a player a lot this season. This is a huge upgrade for the Hawks this season.

(D) Jassen Cullimore < Sean O’Donnell (UPGRADE): In keeping with the theme of toughness, the Hawks made another move to upgrade the team over their team at the start of the season. Jassen Cullimore played decent defense for the Hawks on the third pairing. While he didn’t score any goals, he had 8 assists and was a +4. There’s really no knocking his game, it was definitely adequate. O’Donnell is a comparable veteran who was brought in for this season. He plays a tougher game than Cullimore and is a great locker room presence to have. His +/- is also 8 but I have to consider this move an upgrade given the toughness he plays with and what he brings to the team leadership wise. A small move but a solid one for the Hawks.

2010-2011 Post Trade Deadline vs. 2011-2012 Season Start Comparison

Troy Brouwer < Andrew Burnette (UPGRADE): Andrew Burnette came off one of his lowest producing seasons last year, netting 18 goals and 28 assists for a total of 46 points. And while at age 37 his prime is behind him, he has a better net presence than Troy and more of a scorer’s touch that should benefit from playing with Kane and Toews. If I had to project, I’d assume a 50+ point season from Burnette. Still, even with an off season for Burnette with a mediocre Minnesota Wild team (except when it counted for us against Dallas) he outscored Brouwer’s best season so far. Last season Troy had 36 points with 17 goals and the Cup season he had 40 points with 22 goals. While Troy is young and may have his best days ahead of him, I just don’t see him projecting much farther than he has. I think the edge here goes to Burnette.

Tomas Kopecky = Rostislav Olesz (EVEN – too close to call): Olesz was injured for most of last year and this off season, but some of his prior performances show him as a 30 point season scorer with a relative balance between goals and assists. He has played on a very poor Florida Panthers team, which may have hurt his production, and playing with the Hawks should improve those numbers. He also plays a physical game and is defensively sound perhaps making him a good third line candidate to play on Bolland’s shutdown line. Still, nothing that we have seen to date shows him to be more than a marginal player. Comparing him to Tomas Kopecky, and the comparisons are closer than you would think. Prior to last season Tomas never scored more than 21 points, usually being a 4th line grinder with minimal ice time. Last season his TOI increased and he saw a lot of time on the 2nd line with Hossa and Sharp. He ended with 42 points and 15 goals. He got most of his assists on that 2nd line, but struggled to score goals of his own. He was most productive when he was back on the 4th line for those stretches. It’s probably not a coincidence either that is when the Hawks made their run up to the playoffs. This may be a perfect example of an average player at best being paired with top tier talent and his numbers being inflated because of it. In my opinion, both players are pretty comparable, with Kopecky perhaps having a slightly higher ceiling. Both players are overpaid this season as well, which is another commonality. This one was too close to call IMO. If I had to pick I’d give a slight edge to Kopecky because of his two years with the team and three years with Hossa, however, again, he did most of his scoring and production on that 4th line when not paired with Hossa.

Jake Dowell < Jamal Mayers (UPGRADE – slight): This is one I may draw some criticism for. If you just compare offensive numbers, the edge goes to Jake Dowell here. Dowell scored 21 points last season with 6 goals with a TOI of 11:49 while Mayers scored just 14 points and 3 goals with a TOI of 8:53. Mayer’s career best was a 27 point season with 12 goals in ’08, and he’s never been more than a 3rd line guy. Age is also against Mayers who is 36 while Dowell is 26. Mayers makes up some ground though because of our “new look” 4th line this season. Mayers will bring a physicality that Dowell didn’t. Dowell brought good energy, but Mayers will bring a lot more toughness to a Hawks team that needs it. Mayers could also see some time on the PK unit as well, something Dowell didn’t do. I’m giving the edge to Mayers not because I think he is the more skilled player here, but because I think he will bring more of what the Hawks need than Dowell did. So in my opinion, he’s a better fit for the team. This is a tough one to call, so time will tell here.

Fernando Pisani < Daniel Carcillo (UPGRADE): Fernando Pisani had some good years with the Oilers, but the Hawks never saw so much as a glimmer from those days. Health is an issue for him, and during last season Pisani scored 16 points with 7 goals while spending most of his time on the 4th line. He also always appeared to be a soft player. He was brought for his ability to play on the PK, but didn’t do so very often as our PK unit struggled last year. Carcillo has been a much discussed player since his signing, drawing various reactions from fans. At first I wasn’t wild about the idea, but now I’m warming up to it and curious to see what he can do for us. His best season was the ’10 season where he scored 22 points on 12 goals. Last season he saw a drop in games played and time on ice due to another factor he brings to the team --- being an agitator. In Philly he was like a dog off his leash. I think the hope here is that he keeps some of that emotion in check, while bringing that same “tough to play against” attitude to the ice, something that Pisani certainly wasn’t. Additionally, he has a decent ability to score goals, so he may bring some increased production to this 4th line and be a good partner for Mayers. With this move the Hawks went from a soft, unhealthy 4th liner to a tough agitator who might bring more of a scorers touch to the 4th line. Can he keep it under control or will he end up hurting the Hawks and get demoted? That’s the big question, but I think you have to give a solid upgrade nod to Carcillo.

(D) Brian Campbell > Steve Montador (DOWNGRADE): It’s tough to do a position-by-position analysis for the Hawks changes on defense. On one hand, Montador appears to be the best choice to take Brian Campbell's spot on the second pairing, so this comparison makes sense. On the other hand, the Hawks hope Nick Leddy continues to develop to eventually replace most of Campbell's production. Still since Leddy was with the Hawks for a good percentage of last year, I didn’t want to compare him to himself here, but will discuss this in some of the closing points. No two ways about it, the Hawks will miss Campbell on the ice, if not his contract. With this change the Hawks lose an elite Puck Moving Defensemen and a key player in their Cup run. However, looking at this objectively, while it’s clear losing Campbell is a downgrade, it may not be as bad as it appears. From an offensive production standpoint, both players were fairly even last season. Montador was 26 points with 5 goals, and Campbell was 27 points also with 5 goals. However, last season was the most Montador has ever produced offensively, while Campbell had a 52 point season with the Hawks a couple years ago and several seasons in the 40s. Montador does not have that ceiling and it will be missed. However, what Mondator does bring is a very physical defensive play --- something Campbell never was. Yes, he is slower and that may affect the Hawks transition game a bit, but he is a much more physical stay-at-home defensemen than Campbell was. Hawks fans may see (hopefully) some improved offensive play from Hjalmarsson this season as he usually had to watch the blue line while Campbell was attacking. If paired with Montador, Hjalmarsson may feel a bit more comfortable at showing some offense which Hawks fans have been anxious for. So a side benefit of this move could be a better Hammer. Montador also had a decent +/- rating last season at 16. Some of this may be due to playing with Ryan Miller in net, but he still seems to be a solid defensive player. Still this move is definitely a downgrade on the ice (financial upgrade, but that’s not the point of this post), but Mondator brings some interesting characteristics that Campbell didn’t so the damage may not be as severe as some think. Offensively, both were comparable last season which IS something Hawks fans are talking about and the post of this post --- are we better than last year?

(D) Chris Campoli = Sean O’Donnell (EVEN): I may draw some criticism for this one as well. While O’Donnell was considered an upgrade over where the Hawks started last season, when you compare him to our post trade deadline team, he matches up more with Sean O’Donnell. Campoli came to the Hawks and seemed to fit in immediately. He was a great puck mover and a decent skater. However his defense was on and off again, which is an important point. O’Donnell posted a better +/- than Campoli and plays a more physical and gritty game for the Hawks, which is something they need going forward. So while Campoli matched up better with the Hawks transition game, O’Donnell will bring more grit and toughness to the team, so it’s a bit of a trade off. However with O’Donnell likely being paired with Leddy, hopefully the Hawks transition game won’t suffer much for this move. Offensively, both players were comparable. O’Donnell had 18 points and Campoli 21. Campoli may have better moves in the offensive zone, but O’Donnell has a solid shot of his own. I don’t think the Hawks lose much here.

The Intangibles:

A summer of rest and refocus: The Hawks have had a longer summer than they have had in several years. Many of their players not only played for the Cup winning team, but also in the Olympics last year, so there was a lot of hockey played and it showed in their games. The Hawks will be better served this season with their extra time off to refocus, rest up, recover from their injuries, and be ready to start this season with more hunger. This should be a positive for this year’s team. In short – no Cup hangover.

Potential player development: There are several players on the Hawks who look poised to have an improved season.
- Patrick Kane has put in a lot of time this off-season to add some strength and it shows. He also is very hungry to hit the 100 point mark and take his game to the next level. I think we will see an improved Kane both offensively and defensively.
- Michael Frolik also started getting comfortable in our system last year.
- Viktor Stalberg, while not a popular Hawk on the ice, may be poised for an improved season. He already started showing signs of improved play after he accepted his 4th line role and may be a positive factor there.
- Nick Leddy will only continue to develop as he gets more games in the NHL. Look for him to make a few mistakes as he grows, but to still have a positive and improved season with more responsibilities.
- Niklas Hjalmarsson hasn’t shown Hawks fans what they want yet. He’s a sound defensemen and a good puck blocker, but his offensive game hasn’t arrived. With Campbell moving on, and Montador being more of a stay-at-home guy, there’s hope that Hammer could develop a bit more of his offensive game this season.
Keith and Seabrook back on track: This can’t be stated enough. Both of these guys had off seasons last year. While Seabrook put up career offensive numbers, his defensive game was not where it has been. Look for these two to get back on track and be an improvement.

Better schedule: The NHL did the Hawks no favors last season and really helped their Cup hangover along. Their schedule the first half of the season was brutal. At times they were as many as 5-6 games ahead of other teams, and had a lot of long road trip stretches. This season’s schedule looks to be a bit more balanced.

The prospect factor: Last season the Hawks had to rush a few prospects up before perhaps they were ready, due to salary cap issues. This season the Hawks won’t have that same need, and in fact signed a number of veteran players who are less of risk on the ice. That being said, the Hawks will have a chance to move a couple prospects up if they show they are ready. Ben Smith may play a part and give the team a lift at some point. There is a lot of hope that Marcus Kruger could move into a 3rd or 4th line Center role at some point as well, enabling Bolland to move up to 2nd Center and Sharp to go back to wing. Jeremy Morin has a ton of talent and may be a solid mid-season call-up if he shows he is ready as well, to give the team a lift.

In summary:

In my opinion, this team is without a doubt better than the team that took the ice at the start of last season. While we may have lost some speed on defense for our transition game, we still have several good puck movers so we shouldn't see too big of a hit. We also added some much needed toughness both on the offensive side and the defensive side as well, something the Hawks lacked severely last season. We also made some apparent scoring upgrades as well. Even though the Hawks scored a lot of goals last season, seeing us improve there is also a good thing. However, it is a bit arguable if we are as good of a team as the one that left the ice at the end of last season, but I think we are improved over that team as well. Time will tell of course, but given some of the comparisons, you have to feel good about where the team is right now.

Feel free to discuss.


Last edited by Recoil: 07-22-2011 at 12:49 PM.
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07-22-2011, 12:51 PM
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I agree with you on SOD vs. Campoli. SOD is still well above average as a stay at home D-man and his influence will show in our entire D-core. This team has plenty of offense from the back end but badly needed someone like SOD to stablize the blue line and get us through injuries. Honestly, I expect him play his way into the lineup regardless and log 50-60 games.

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07-22-2011, 01:02 PM
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you have Sean O'Donnell vs Campoli

and you have Sean O'Donnell vs Cullimore....

I think you should have Sami Lepisto vs Campoli, then O'Donnell vs Cullimore..it would make more sense imo...

I agree with most of that...

I dont think Kopecky vs Olesz is close at all, that is a downgrade imo....Kopecky takes a lot of heat on here, but he is the better player of the two...

Mayers vs Dowell will be interesting, but Dowell really didnt display that edge many of us saw from him years past. On offensive numbers it is a downgrade, but overall play it probably will be even.

Interesting take on the whole thing, I applaud the effort that went into it...

I wish things could work like that for a team to be better or worse, but it just isnt that simple. Hopefully this team will be a cohesive unit with all the turnover we have again, which you really arent taking into consideration.

There is a ton of turnover these past 2 years and that has negatively effected our team and its coaching.

Hopefully this crew bonds pretty fast as we need to get off to a great start, plus NO SOPHMORE SLUMPS! If we get sophmore slumps out of Leddy, Crawford, and Smith; we could be dead in the water....

I also agree the schedule was really tough, so getting out of the gate early can make that difference between 4th and 8th for us.

Good read and I like the analysis of it..

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07-22-2011, 01:09 PM
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We have a little wiggle room if Smith has a sophomore slump...guys like Morin or Jimmy Hayes could possibly fill the role. I agree that the Hawks are dead in the water if Leddy or Crawford don't pan out. Especially Leddy...we could potentially have a bad 2nd pair if he doesn't progress or if he regresses.

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07-22-2011, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
We have a little wiggle room if Smith has a sophomore slump...guys like Morin or Jimmy Hayes could possibly fill the role. I agree that the Hawks are dead in the water if Leddy or Crawford don't pan out. Especially Leddy...we could potentially have a bad 2nd pair if he doesn't progress or if he regresses.
That's what the cap space is for. And no way both Crawford and Salak bomb. One of the two should carry this team, and it will probably be Crawford. He was good to begin with and only got better as the season went on. I agree though that if it is clear Leddy can't handle an expanded role, Bowman needs to go looking for a top 4 D-man and not anyone like Campoli. I'm talking about a clear upgrade and major acquisition.

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07-22-2011, 01:16 PM
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That's what the cap space is for. And no way both Crawford and Salak bomb. One of the two should carry this team, and it will probably be Crawford. He was good to begin with and only got better as the season went on. I agree though that if it is clear Leddy can't handle an expanded role, Bowman needs to go looking for a top 4 D-man and not anyone like Campoli. I'm talking about a clear upgrade and major acquisition.
I agree that Leddy worries me more. And remember, it's unlikely that any team will be trading a top 4 dman in the first half of the season.

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07-22-2011, 01:22 PM
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Man nice post...as far as this years roster that you posted...This is the most realistic roster that I have seen out of maybe 50-75 different posting fans as far as starters. You don't have Smith or Kruger on your roster at all, not that they won't be at some time, but I like it that you kept rookies off the team... I don't know that I agree, but management putting 2 rookies on the team together on the offensive side to start the season...unlikely. You still have room for one more alternate on offense.

I like your second line with Frolik, Sharp, Hossa

I sure as heck hope Olesz can play well with Bickell & Bolland that is the really only question mark on any of your lines, but I agree he must play here for minimum 2months...if he doesnt work Ben Smith

4th Line 100% agree... Carcillo, Mayers, Stalberg... I think Stalberg was decent last year in the 2nd half and showed willingness to be versatile in the playoffs... His speed with 2 muscle guys is a good combo. I hated Stalberg last year, but agree he will be different and better with 2 new linemates.

I see O'Donnell ahead of Lepisto to start the season, but Lepisto I believe will pass him on the depth chart in the second half the season. O'Donnell's role is clearly defined, but Lepisto's is something he will grow into.


Forwards
Andrew Burnette / Jonathan Toews / Patrick Kane
Michael Frolik / Patrick Sharp / Marian Hossa
Brian Bickell / Dave Bolland / Rostislav Olesz
Daniel Carcillo / Jamal Mayers / Viktor Stalberg

Defensemen
Duncan Keith / Brent Seabrook
Niklas Hjalmarsson / Steve Montador
Nick Leddy / Sean O’Donnell

Alternate Defensemen: Sami Lepisto, John Scott

You are missing rookies on your roster... No Kruger and no Smith as an extra they would not get playing time...I wouldn't mind either guy on the roster, but they need to play somewhere. I say start them both in Rockford and have Scott be the extra forward he wouldnt play unless we had a 2 goal lead... Carcillo, Mayers, Scott would be worth watching especially home games...

Smith or Kruger would be the first call-up or Morin if his numbers are ridiculous.... Morin on the 2nd line in that situation...with the playoff 3rd line of Bickell, Bolland, Frolik ...sweet 3rd line best in hockey

Leddy with Hjammer as 3 & 4s

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07-22-2011, 01:25 PM
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I agree that Leddy worries me more. And remember, it's unlikely that any team will be trading a top 4 dman in the first half of the season.
We'd have to overpay. If the Hawks offered 2 or 3 quality prospects, they'd probably find someone.

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07-22-2011, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
you have Sean O'Donnell vs Campoli

and you have Sean O'Donnell vs Cullimore....

I think you should have Sami Lepisto vs Campoli, then O'Donnell vs Cullimore..it would make more sense imo...
If you noticed, I did that comparison because I was comparing it first to the 2010 starting team, and second to the 2010 trade deadline team. I have my six defensemen at the start of the year as Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, Montador, Leddy and O'Donnell --- I have Lepisto as an alternate. So I used O'Donnell as the #6 DMAN for comparison purposes against the #6 DMAN on those teams.

Quote:
Interesting take on the whole thing, I applaud the effort that went into it...

I wish things could work like that for a team to be better or worse, but it just isnt that simple. Hopefully this team will be a cohesive unit with all the turnover we have again, which you really arent taking into consideration.
Agreed that things are never this "simple." I just thought this was an interesting way to put some thought into the changes. How the players gel both on the ice and in the locker room will be the big key here for sure. Valid point.

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07-22-2011, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LandofLincoln View Post
Man nice post...as far as this years roster that you posted...This is the most realistic roster that I have seen out of maybe 50-75 different posting fans as far as starters. You don't have Smith or Kruger on your roster at all, not that they won't be at some time, but I like it that you kept rookies off the team... I don't know that I agree, but management putting 2 rookies on the team together on the offensive side to start the season...unlikely. You still have room for one more alternate on offense.

I like your second line with Frolik, Sharp, Hossa

I sure as heck hope Olesz can play well with Bickell & Bolland that is the really only question mark on any of your lines, but I agree he must play here for minimum 2months...if he doesnt work Ben Smith

4th Line 100% agree... Carcillo, Mayers, Stalberg... I think Stalberg was decent last year in the 2nd half and showed willingness to be versatile in the playoffs... His speed with 2 muscle guys is a good combo. I hated Stalberg last year, but agree he will be different and better with 2 new linemates.

I see O'Donnell ahead of Lepisto to start the season, but Lepisto I believe will pass him on the depth chart in the second half the season. O'Donnell's role is clearly defined, but Lepisto's is something he will grow into.


Forwards
Andrew Burnette / Jonathan Toews / Patrick Kane
Michael Frolik / Patrick Sharp / Marian Hossa
Brian Bickell / Dave Bolland / Rostislav Olesz
Daniel Carcillo / Jamal Mayers / Viktor Stalberg

Defensemen
Duncan Keith / Brent Seabrook
Niklas Hjalmarsson / Steve Montador
Nick Leddy / Sean O’Donnell

Alternate Defensemen: Sami Lepisto, John Scott

You are missing rookies on your roster... No Kruger and no Smith as an extra they would not get playing time...I wouldn't mind either guy on the roster, but they need to play somewhere. I say start them both in Rockford and have Scott be the extra forward he wouldnt play unless we had a 2 goal lead... Carcillo, Mayers, Scott would be worth watching especially home games...

Smith or Kruger would be the first call-up or Morin if his numbers are ridiculous.... Morin on the 2nd line in that situation...with the playoff 3rd line of Bickell, Bolland, Frolik ...sweet 3rd line best in hockey

Leddy with Hjammer as 3 & 4s
My thought process on the prospects is as follows. Most of the vets we signed on one-year deals are not two-way deals. They would have to go through waivers to get demoted so I think they are more likely to make the big club to start with.

Also, as you said, Smith and Kruger, if all of the vets are kept in Chicago, don't have open roster spots on a line necessarily. I don't think they would make the team just to be a healthy scratch, they would stay in Rockford and get playing time. HOWEVER, as the year progresses I think its possible for a couple prospects to make this team, and some of those vets become healthy scratches. I just happen to think that this is how the roster MAY look at the start of the year. Its possible Kruger and Smith get the nod and Olesz or Mayers become healthy scratches and extras, but for the purposes of this analysis, I decided against doing that for now.

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07-22-2011, 01:48 PM
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You are missing rookies on your roster... No Kruger and no Smith as an extra they would not get playing time...I wouldn't mind either guy on the roster, but they need to play somewhere. I say start them both in Rockford and have Scott be the extra forward he wouldnt play unless we had a 2 goal lead... Carcillo, Mayers, Scott would be worth watching especially home games...

Smith or Kruger would be the first call-up or Morin if his numbers are ridiculous.... Morin on the 2nd line in that situation...with the playoff 3rd line of Bickell, Bolland, Frolik ...sweet 3rd line best in hockey

Leddy with Hjammer as 3 & 4s
I didn't understand your part of that post at first, but I think we agree there. Prospects likely to start in Rockford and work their way up when/if needed for injuries or to replace someone who just isn't getting it done. I also agree that Scott may be the #8 DMAN or #13 Forward so he could work as an alternate potentially there.

I'm not sure if I agree that Leddy will start the year in the second pairing or not. Several people above also seemed to think if Leddy falters that it could really hurt us. I'd like to see Leddy on the third pairing to start the year, and we all know things get moved around anyway. I guess my thought is, if Leddy DOES start faultering, he can be moved to the third pairing and Montador can take second pairing, or if he has real problems, you bring in Lepisto. However, the loss of him being a good PMD would definitely hurt the team.

I'm optimistic about Leddy though. He has a lot of veteran leadership around him. Keith, Seabrook, Montador, O'Donnell. I think it will work out OK and we can move him down for less minutes if he struggles at first.

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07-22-2011, 01:54 PM
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My thought process on the prospects is as follows. Most of the vets we signed on one-year deals are not two-way deals. They would have to go through waivers to get demoted so I think they are more likely to make the big club to start with.

Also, as you said, Smith and Kruger, if all of the vets are kept in Chicago, don't have open roster spots on a line necessarily. I don't think they would make the team just to be a healthy scratch, they would stay in Rockford and get playing time. HOWEVER, as the year progresses I think its possible for a couple prospects to make this team, and some of those vets become healthy scratches. I just happen to think that this is how the roster MAY look at the start of the year. Its possible Kruger and Smith get the nod and Olesz or Mayers become healthy scratches and extras, but for the purposes of this analysis, I decided against doing that for now.
I agree...100% just a reminder 2 game suspension for Dan (carbomb) Carcillo to start the season...So Smith could take his spot... Mayers probably has played 40% of his career at wing but Mayers, Kruger, Stalberg yuck.. Kruger could play 4th line but it would be dumb.

2 to 3 months into the season we will see Sharp move back to wing Bolland on the 2 line and Kruger get a callup to play regular minutes on line 3...

Smith will fill in for Carcillo in my opinion the 1st two games that he serves his suspension. Smith may even be sent down after the 2 games that would not surprise me at all, but remember they have an extra spot on the roster...

juggling act of prospects Smith, Kruger and later Morin...

Beach probably not so much. I hope to see him though if he does well in Rockford.

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07-22-2011, 02:37 PM
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I agree that we are a better team than last year but that's not saying much all things considered.

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07-22-2011, 02:49 PM
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Why do people put Olesz anywhere other than the fourth line or press box? I understand Q juggles the lines, but that won't last more than a game or two even if he experiments.

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07-22-2011, 02:59 PM
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Why do people put Olesz anywhere other than the fourth line or press box? I understand Q juggles the lines, but that won't last more than a game or two even if he experiments.
you dont bury 12 million without knowing for sure it doesnt work

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07-22-2011, 03:11 PM
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you dont bury 12 million without knowing for sure it doesnt work
I said the potential expirement with Olesz in the top-nine after Q juggles the lines won't last more than a game or two. The guy just can't find his game in the NHL.

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07-22-2011, 03:20 PM
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One thing is certain: Hawks will be a much tougher team to play against this season as last season had to the softest team we have ever iced. The big question I have again this year is team chemistry and how long it will take to gel as a team. If it takes more than a few months, we may find ourselves lower in the standings than we would like and that may mean once again fighting for a playoff spot come March. The team needs to shrug off the losses of Campbell especially, and Brouwer and Campoli to a lesser extent.

On paper we are, no doubt, a better team, but the game is played on ice and we don't have too many weak opponents, so if we falter out of the gate it will not be easy to play catch-up. IMO, Keith will once again be the key to a successful season. Hopefully marriage agrees with him.

BTW ... good post to start this thread Recoil.


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07-22-2011, 03:27 PM
  #18
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I said the potential expirement with Olesz in the top-nine after Q juggles the lines won't last more than a game or two. The guy just can't find his game in the NHL.
You can't tell anything that fast...He would have to be a puck turnover machine. The experiment will be 2 months even if he costs us 2 games. He is not on a short leash like you suspect.

Three strikes rule here for sure. He would need to have 3 Campoli games and I bet he doesn't.

Not saying he will be great, but 3rd liners aren't scoring machines. All he has to do is be average defensively and that is fairly easy when Dave Bolland is your center.

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07-22-2011, 04:02 PM
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One thing is certain: Hawks will be a much tougher team to play against this season as last season had to the softest team we have ever iced. The big question I have again this year is team chemistry and how long it will take to gel as a team. If it takes more than a few months, we may find ourselves lower in the standings than we would like and that may mean once again fighting for a playoff spot come March. The team needs to shrug off the losses of Campbell especially, and Brouwer and Campoli to a lesser extent.

On paper we are, no doubt, a better team, but the game is played on ice and we don't have too many weak opponents, so if we falter out of the gate it will not be easy to play catch-up. IMO, Keith will once again be the key to a successful season. Hopefully marriage agrees with him.

BTW ... good post to start this thread Recoil.
Thanks! I agree, when I looked at it I think we are a better team on paper. There are lots of question marks, sure, but then again all teams have their question marks too. I also agree that I think Keith and to a degree, Seabrook will be key in how far this team goes. It will all come down to how well they gel on the ice together, but I'm optimistic in that the only line that is totally new is that 4th line for offense. Our defensive pairings will be new as well though, and that will take some time to develop too. Still, we have more defensively sound forwards so I think our team will be much tougher to play against this year, and that will be huge.

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07-22-2011, 04:34 PM
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Potential wise if not now, soon (next year maybe).

Frolik = Kris Versteeg
Bickell = Andrew Ladd
Nothing (in the right world Beach) = Dustin Byfuglien (as a forward).
Nick Leddy = Brian Campbell
Crawford = Niemi

Thats all that matters, the rest like Burish and Fraser are a dime a doezen players.

Now factor in guys with top 6 potential like Morin or even Smith and this team could be a power house, if not now certainly within the next three seasons.

Our core is epic young, except for Hossa, yeah, he will be 33 a few years from now ahaha.

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07-22-2011, 04:35 PM
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2 things I really like about this team as opposed to last years team.

First - depth. Last year guys were on the roster because we had to ice a roster. When anyone got hurt we were bringing in the back up to the back ups. This year, if we lose Seabrook for 5 games O'Donnel can play instead of John Scott or Cullimore. If Hossa goes down we have Jeremy Morin or Ben Smith instead of Potulny, Cullimore, or Taffe.

Second - defined roles. This is especially true of our 4th line. Last year our 4th line had no identity. It wasn't a scoring line nor was it a defensive line. It couldn't play physical and the only guy that could fight couldn't get anyone to fight him. I know people don't like Mayers and Carcillo but those guys give you a defined 4th line. We know have a line Q can send out to take runs at guys, we were desperately missing that physicality last year.

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07-22-2011, 04:42 PM
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Potential wise if not now, soon (next year maybe).

Frolik = Kris Versteeg
Bickell = Andrew Ladd
Nothing (in the right world Beach) = Dustin Byfuglien (as a forward).
Nick Leddy = Brian Campbell
Crawford = Niemi

Thats all that matters, the rest like Burish and Fraser are a dime a doezen players.

Now factor in guys with top 6 potential like Morin or even Smith and this team could be a power house, if not now certainly within the next three seasons.

Our core is epic young, except for Hossa, yeah, he will be 33 a few years from now ahaha.
- Agree about Frolik / Versteeg
- IMO Bickell is/will be comparable to Byfuglien as a Forward. Maybe not now, but soon. He doesn't have the personality, but the talent is there.
- Also IMO, I think/hope Morin will be our next Andrew Ladd. Morin needs to develop a bit, but if he makes an appearance this season, I think in a year or two he could be comparable to Ladd.
- Agree on the rest

I think we will be a solid team this season. I think we have the potential in the 2012-2013 season to make another epic Cup run with a stacked team, and possibly the next couple years after that. Guys like Leddy, Morin, Kruger, will hopefully develop into the stars we hope they are, and that will add talent as well. The Hawks seem poised to improve every year, and I believe that starts this season with this team taking a step over last year.

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07-22-2011, 04:46 PM
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- Agree about Frolik / Versteeg
- IMO Bickell is/will be comparable to Byfuglien as a Forward. Maybe not now, but soon. He doesn't have the personality, but the talent is there.
- Also IMO, I think/hope Morin will be our next Andrew Ladd. Morin needs to develop a bit, but if he makes an appearance this season, I think in a year or two he could be comparable to Ladd.
- Agree on the rest

I think we will be a solid team this season. I think we have the potential in the 2012-2013 season to make another epic Cup run with a stacked team, and possibly the next couple years after that. Guys like Leddy, Morin, Kruger, will hopefully develop into the stars we hope they are, and that will add talent as well. The Hawks seem poised to improve every year, and I believe that starts this season with this team taking a step over last year.
I agree Ladd is a good comparison for Morin. Not a fighter but will fight, he's not going to take a run at someone but he'll play physical, can score but is never going to be a teams #1 option.

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07-22-2011, 04:50 PM
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I agree Ladd is a good comparison for Morin. Not a fighter but will fight, he's not going to take a run at someone but he'll play physical, can score but is never going to be a teams #1 option.
Um, from what I've heard about Morin, his ceiling is higher than Ladd. He sounds like he could become a 30-40goal, 75-80pt guy. And all do respect to Ladd, but he's not that good.

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07-22-2011, 04:56 PM
  #25
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Official Discussion Thread: Comparing the 2011 Blackhawks with the 2010 team.

You mean the '11 team with the '12 team.

'10 team can't really be compared



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