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Josh Gorges re-signs 1 year, $2.5 M (July 2011)

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07-30-2011, 02:25 PM
  #276
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Why worry about an easily replaceable top 4 dman who might end up staying anyway? WHYYY!
Some people simply cannot rate or evaluate players. It says a lot when some would choose Gill over Hammer.

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07-30-2011, 03:44 PM
  #277
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re-sign and trade him at the deadline for shea weber and ryan suter. makes perfect sense

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07-30-2011, 04:00 PM
  #278
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Not to minimize Gorges impact on the Habs...he's an important player and an even more important leader.

But I think given his hockey ability, he should be in the 2.5M to 3.25M range...not sure I would pay him more than that personally. So while he's a valuable player, he's also very replaceable (at least on the ice).

I don't mind the team paying a little extra for the intangibles he brings...but I wouldn't go overboard either.
Exactly what I'm feeling, and why it would have been nice to see the team push for a 2-3 year deal in the ~3million range, assuming good enough assurance from team medical staff, which presumably they got prior to signing the current deal.

If the injury does reduce him, we still have a solid bottom pairing guy with a great attitude whom we showed faith in.

If the injurybis a non-issue and he continues to improve, we get another season or two of a very affordable top 4 dman

I get the conservative thinking in the one year deal, but it could hurt us if he plays well enough to push the market for ~4million next season.

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07-30-2011, 08:27 PM
  #279
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I'm glad they signed Gorges, even for a year. Hope to see more. Imo, he has been the best Habs D man(defensively) over the last several years.

I'm so stoked to see the Habs start the season with Markov, Gorges, Gill, Spacek, Subban, Weber, Emelin,.., etc. I'm just giddy about our D.

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07-30-2011, 09:12 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Some people simply cannot rate or evaluate players. It says a lot when some would choose Gill over Hammer.
We didn't keep Gill over Hammer because Gill's better. It's because he complements what we already have better than Hammer. And adds more leadership.

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07-30-2011, 09:23 PM
  #281
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We didn't keep Gill over Hammer because Gill's better. It's because he complements what we already have better than Hammer. And adds more leadership.
And is working with Subban, which is helping a lot.

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07-30-2011, 09:32 PM
  #282
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We didn't keep Gill over Hammer because Gill's better. It's because he complements what we already have better than Hammer. And adds more leadership.
I disagree, he only brings a few things on the ice. He is great off the ice by all accounts, but at some point your on ice performance should outweigh the locker room stuff imo. I'm not completely put off by having him back as he seems to be a calming influence on the young guns.

Roman Hamrlik brings way more on ice ability in nearly all circumstances, except the pk. He will be sorely missed. We act like he didn't do much, even though he took the role as number 1 dman on a team who was without their best dman for a better part of 2 years. He performed admirably in position he isn't really cut out for. We've seen him exposed more often because of the increased roll he was thrown into, but he can still log 20-23minutes a night. I'm pretty sure he lead the team in icetime during his tenure with the Habs. If he was playing the roll he should of been, everyone would of been loving him. To me, he was easily our most underrated performer during his 4 year stint with the habs. He tired near the end of the year/playoffs because he was completely overused for 2 years in a row. Hal Gill can't eat the minutes of Roman Hamrlik and it's not even close.

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07-30-2011, 09:33 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
We didn't keep Gill over Hammer because Gill's better. It's because he complements what we already have better than Hammer. And adds more leadership.
Yeah I didn't see it as a "one or the other" situation either. I think the Habs didn't plan on having as much cap space right now. If they knew, they would've kept him imo.

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07-30-2011, 10:11 PM
  #284
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Yeah I didn't see it as a "one or the other" situation either. I think the Habs didn't plan on having as much cap space right now. If they knew, they would've kept him imo.
same here . I'm amazed at how PG would be ''worried about gorges' knee '' and pass on hamrlik for 2 years at his current salary. Dman as solid as him, who can log minutes and who will put up another 30 pts without any significant powerplay time are worth more than 3.5m, regardless of the age. Bargain for washington, in an expensive UFA year. gauthier and martin's faith in this particular young group of defenders is suprising ... especially when the veterans already in place are regarded as the weak links in the 5 on 5 game ... both defensively and transition wise. (gill, spacek)

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07-30-2011, 11:11 PM
  #285
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We didn't keep Gill over Hammer because Gill's better. It's because he complements what we already have better than Hammer. And adds more leadership.
I didn't say management, I said some posters here.

Let me ask you this, are you happier with having a potential offensive 3rd line like Eller-AK-DD, or would you rather have a Lappy-Moen-Darche type of line?
Why would it be any different for the defense. There is no point in opting to choose a limited specialist over a well rounded depth Dman. Having a guy like Hammer on a bottom pairing is a luxury. I don't see why anybody would prefer to add someone with a limited skillset as opposed to a well rounded, decent puck mover Dman. If cap space was an issue, I'd understand but when it's not, you'd have to be a fool to choose a PK specialist.
Anyways, not going back into this debate. Like I said, it's pretty telling when some would choose Gill over Hammer.

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07-30-2011, 11:22 PM
  #286
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if you look at the defense next year, Gill has more chemistry with subban and gorges than Hamrlik.

the duo weber hammer wasn't the best too, so I think that the choice was pretty easy.

I think Hamrlik is better than Gill but for the salary and for the number of year and for the chemistry factor, I think Gill is a better fit for the habs.

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07-30-2011, 11:29 PM
  #287
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same here . I'm amazed at how PG would be ''worried about gorges' knee '' and pass on hamrlik for 2 years at his current salary.
With Markov being signed, PK, Weber, Emelin, Diaz, I'm not surprised he wasn't keen on giving Hammer around 3M for 2years.

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07-31-2011, 12:26 AM
  #288
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same here . I'm amazed at how PG would be ''worried about gorges' knee '' and pass on hamrlik for 2 years at his current salary.
There is nothing to even back up this statement, so using it in your argument is incredibly weak.

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07-31-2011, 01:43 AM
  #289
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With Markov being signed, PK, Weber, Emelin, Diaz, I'm not surprised he wasn't keen on giving Hammer around 3M for 2years.
You have a whopping ~50 NHL games played between 3 of the 5 guys you mentioned. And we're not talking about blue-chippers either.

We'll need health and a serious horseshoe for our D-unit to look competent if these are the guys we're going into battle with.

Obviously that extra year was the deal breaker with Hammer, but it's still concerning to see that we identified our need for him by making a contract offer yet didn't find a replacement once it fell through.

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07-31-2011, 02:34 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
There is nothing to even back up this statement, so using it in your argument is incredibly weak.
Gorges said it in the 990 interview. He said the org is using this year to see whether his knee holds up and that he doesn't put the team at risk. His own words.

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Obviously that extra year was the deal breaker with Hammer, but it's still concerning to see that we identified our need for him by making a contract offer yet didn't find a replacement once it fell through.
True, but maybe they did offer Hannan or McCabe the same thing and they refused. Wanting longer years, more money or even another team altogether..

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07-31-2011, 07:26 AM
  #291
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I'm curious to see if Gorges can hold up longterm in the top four. That's something he has not been challenged to do as of yet. He'll need to contribute more offensively IMO for this D group to be good.

Hamrlik would have been fine with Subban. Those two were the best D combo (offensively/defensively) in the playoffs two years ago when Subban was less experienced. And ironic that Washington appears to have signed Hamrlik to mentor Mike Green. Kinda nice to have a player who can mentor and play 2 way hockey too.

Gill weighs Subban down IMO and my ideal world would be for Emelin and Spacek to play well enough to displace Gorges and Gill in the top four. I have a hunch my ideal world is not going to come to fruition though.

I still think this D group is one injury away from being a disaster. I'll probably be white knuckles everytime one of Subban or Markov go down early in the coming season.

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07-31-2011, 11:07 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Some people simply cannot rate or evaluate players. It says a lot when some would choose Gill over Hammer.
He'll no it doesn't, we need a Hall Gill next season more then we need a Roman Hamrlik, that's why one signed at the end of the season and kne got a contract offer the week before free agency.

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07-31-2011, 11:11 AM
  #293
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We didn't keep Gill over Hammer because Gill's better. It's because he complements what we already have better than Hammer. And adds more leadership.
I can't beleive what I am reading here...

Bigger and taller : yes

Better ? Never was he, never will be.

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07-31-2011, 11:22 AM
  #294
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I can't beleive what I am reading here...

Bigger and taller : yes

Better ? Never was he, never will be.

That's not what he's saying.

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07-31-2011, 11:22 AM
  #295
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I can't beleive what I am reading here...

Bigger and taller : yes

Better ? Never was he, never will be.
That's because you didn't read it properly. Geez.

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07-31-2011, 11:32 AM
  #296
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Yeah I didn't see it as a "one or the other" situation either. I think the Habs didn't plan on having as much cap space right now. If they knew, they would've kept him imo.


Nothing to do with what ended up being extra cap space. The Goat wanted to keep Hammer around. That's why he offered him a contract. Probably for a lot less then 5 million and only one year.

Hammer was the one who said no. As much as the Goat wanted to keep him, it wasn't worth more years or money , and that's it. I agree with him.

Goat has set us up perfectly for this year. I'm really impressed.

We have a world of options at our doorstep. How many times has being up against the cap hurt a team. Now we can see what the year brings and jump on any surprises that a season brings. Whether it's an injury, a trade, a slump, we will have room in all directions to get what we need. The best part will be knowing what we need before we go get it.

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07-31-2011, 12:13 PM
  #297
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He'll no it doesn't, we need a Hall Gill next season more then we need a Roman Hamrlik, that's why one signed at the end of the season and kne got a contract offer the week before free agency.
How do we need a PK specialist more than a proven vet capable of filling in big minutes who's also decent at moving the puck?

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07-31-2011, 12:17 PM
  #298
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How do we need a PK specialist more than a proven vet capable of filling in big minutes who's also decent at moving the puck?
I think every team should carry at least one PK specialist. Gill is the best 6th man in the league.

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07-31-2011, 12:21 PM
  #299
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How do we need a PK specialist more than a proven vet capable of filling in big minutes who's also decent at moving the puck?
Because we have 2 solid puck movers on the team and 2 more coming soon but only 1 pk specialist? We don't need your average all-around defensmen anymore, we already have Spacek for that anyways. Without Gill in the line-up the pk goes south and the player PK Subban ends up playing with will not give him the same luxury of playing as offensively as he wants.

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07-31-2011, 01:01 PM
  #300
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Because we have 2 solid puck movers on the team and 2 more coming soon but only 1 pk specialist? We don't need your average all-around defensmen anymore, we already have Spacek for that anyways. Without Gill in the line-up the pk goes south and the player PK Subban ends up playing with will not give him the same luxury of playing as offensively as he wants.
Spacek is borderline #7/AHL'er at this point. Even at his best during his tenure here he couldn't sniff Hammer's jock in any aspect of hockey.

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