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Josh Gorges re-signs 1 year, $2.5 M (July 2011)

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07-22-2011, 10:49 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Plekamaniac View Post
What concerns me is that a one-year deal should have been ironed out back in May or June. I have a feeling (it's just my opinion) that Josh wanted to commit longer term and we wouldn't budge.

If these negotiations soured Gorges' view of this organization, then Josh is as good as gone on July 1st.
IF that's the case, and management isn't able to sign him before the deadline, then I really hope that the organization has the foresight and balls to trade him so we don't lose him for nothing. I'm tired of watching our guys leave with no return.

Hopefully though that's not the case, he comes back and plays well and we sign him for something reasonable for the next three years.

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07-22-2011, 10:49 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Habs are offering him a chance to upgrade his value, all the while not taking any risks with him because of his recent season ending injury. Unless Gorges is selfish and childish... he would understand those things.
Your right.

I just really like Gorges and think he is a key component to our team. I hate the idea of losing him to UFA on July 1st.

I really hope we can retain his services. He is our top shutdown d-man.

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07-22-2011, 10:50 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Gorges has to see the org's POV. He just came back off a major surgery. He has no offence to speak of. If he has a good year, the team will reward him. Sure every player wants to cash in, but they have to consider what is best for team as well.
Did Markov's camp consider what was best for the team as well?

I am distressed by this deal. The money is a non-issue, but the term is concerning.

Markov should have been the one who was extended a one year deal, not Gorges. Markov has just come off THREE major surgeries............

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07-22-2011, 10:51 PM
  #104
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If Stamkos and Doughty didn`t get offer sheets, why would it be any different with price and Subban. All PG needs to do before July 1 2012 is sign the UFA s he wants and then the Rfa s if they aren t signed allready. It s not that big a deal.

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07-22-2011, 10:52 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by prairie hab View Post
Did Markov's camp consider what was best for the team as well?

I am distressed by this deal. The money is a non-issue, but the term is concerning.

Markov should have been the one who was extended a one year deal, not Gorges. Markov has just come off THREE major surgeries............
Markov has done 10times more than Josh Gorges to prove his worth, sry, but your concern is not justified.

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07-22-2011, 10:54 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Markov has done 10times more than Josh Gorges to prove his worth, sry, but your concern is not justified.
Hopefully we're all saying this at the end of the year because if Markov's knee gets hurt - again - that contract is going to suck.

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07-22-2011, 10:55 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Plekamaniac View Post
Your right.

I just really like Gorges and think he is a key component to our team. I hate the idea of losing him to UFA on July 1st.

I really hope we can retain his services. He is our top shutdown d-man.
Markov is better has a shutdown guy and Subban is coming in on this aspect also.

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07-22-2011, 10:56 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Hopefully we're all saying this at the end of the year because if Markov's knee gets hurt - again - that contract is going to suck.
Yeah, it's a shame they don't allow LTIR cap relief anymore...

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07-22-2011, 10:59 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Hopefully we're all saying this at the end of the year because if Markov's knee gets hurt - again - that contract is going to suck.
With Markov, the only concern is whether he'll play. Whether that's a valid concern or not, I won't dispute. I think we can both agree, if he plays' he'll be fine. If not and suffers a career or season ending surgery. We put him on LTIR. The risk is minimal imo.

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07-22-2011, 11:04 PM
  #110
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A couple main things:

1) Why do people even want to sign Gorges to a long term deal? Even putting the injury aside, non-offensive 4-5 defensive defensmen are not typically signed to long term deals. I see no reason to sign Gorges to a deal over 3 years. Nor do players in this ilk get big numbers, I doubt Gorges ever signs a contract over $3.5 million is his career.

2) Goaltenders are not at risk for offer sheets, even elite caliber goalies like Price. The compensation is just way too high for a saturated market.

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07-22-2011, 11:05 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
IF that's the case, and management isn't able to sign him before the deadline, then I really hope that the organization has the foresight and balls to trade him so we don't lose him for nothing. I'm tired of watching our guys leave with no return.

Hopefully though that's not the case, he comes back and plays well and we sign him for something reasonable for the next three years.
He'll either re-sign or walk next Summer, the habs will be in the thick of things and no way they trade a top 4 d-man.


People are overreacting here, probably Gorges wanted 3 or a bit more and the habs wanted him to prove himself after his last injury. This is the habs organization saying "Go out and prove you're worth X" and Gorges will come out great next year and really what is the most he's going to want to be paid? I don't see him breaking 30 next year and even 30 is probably a bit on the higher end.

Although if he's paired with Markov OR Subban he could really get some good points.

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07-22-2011, 11:06 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
With Markov, the only concern is whether he'll play. Whether that's a valid concern or not, I won't dispute. I think we can both agree, if he plays' he'll be fine. If not and suffers a career or season ending surgery. We put him on LTIR. The risk is minimal imo.
Exactly, plus the Habs have no problem paying for adding salaries, the team is rich. Which could be a problem for some other franchise.

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07-22-2011, 11:08 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
A couple main things:

1) Why do people even want to sign Gorges to a long term deal? Even putting the injury aside, non-offensive 4-5 defensive defensmen are not typically signed to long term deals. I see no reason to sign Gorges to a deal over 3 years. Nor do players in this ilk get big numbers, I doubt Gorges ever signs a contract over $3.5 million is his career.

2) Goaltenders are not at risk for offer sheets, even elite caliber goalies like Price. The compensation is just way too high for a saturated market.

Disagree Buddha, a guy like Price would totally be offer sheet possible.
Price was the 5th best goalie in the league last year, and 7th most valuable player...according to the voters. His possibility to get offer sheeted is totally there, you could blindside the habs with a huge offer and not even have to give up the world.

6 million a year and you're giving up just a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd.

Mont might match that though, say you give him 6.75 per year over 10 years and the habs don't match...you give up 2 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd. For a borderline elite goalie (who might very well be elite by that point)

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07-22-2011, 11:10 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
A couple main things:

1) Why do people even want to sign Gorges to a long term deal? Even putting the injury aside, non-offensive 4-5 defensive defensmen are not typically signed to long term deals. I see no reason to sign Gorges to a deal over 3 years. Nor do players in this ilk get big numbers, I doubt Gorges ever signs a contract over $3.5 million is his career.

2) Goaltenders are not at risk for offer sheets, even elite caliber goalies like Price. The compensation is just way too high for a saturated market.
I have no idea. One good playoff run and suddenly the franchise is doom if we don't sign him long term. I never understood those who wanted him locked up for 4+ years.

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07-22-2011, 11:12 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Yeah, it's a shame they don't allow LTIR cap relief anymore...
LTIR doesn't protect us if the guy limps along for the next three years on a bad knee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
With Markov, the only concern is whether he'll play. Whether that's a valid concern or not, I won't dispute. I think we can both agree, if he plays' he'll be fine. If not and suffers a career or season ending surgery. We put him on LTIR. The risk is minimal imo.
Hopefully, if he plays he'll be good. But as I mentioned above, he's got a three year deal. If he hurts it again, LTIR will help us in the short run but it's not going to protect us from that injury hurting his play down the road. There's no way that another injury doesn't affect his play. We're all hoping and assuming that he'll be great again this year but that might not be the case.

Hopefully he comes back strong but this could easily go the other way. Folks around here were 'sure' that he was going to be back healthy last year too and we all know how that turned out. It's a gamble no matter how you slice it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
He'll either re-sign or walk next Summer, the habs will be in the thick of things and no way they trade a top 4 d-man.
If we know he's going to go the FA route and won't re-sign, I really hope we have the balls to trade him. Unfortunately though, I think you're probably right and we'll just let him walk if that turns out to be the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
People are overreacting here, probably Gorges wanted 3 or a bit more and the habs wanted him to prove himself after his last injury. This is the habs organization saying "Go out and prove you're worth X" and Gorges will come out great next year and really what is the most he's going to want to be paid? I don't see him breaking 30 next year and even 30 is probably a bit on the higher end.

Although if he's paired with Markov OR Subban he could really get some good points.
I'm optimistic that what you're saying is true and the team has basically said 'go out and prove it' and then he'll sign for 3 or 4 years. As for the offense, I don't really care about his offense so much as I like his style of play defensively.

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Old
07-22-2011, 11:14 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Disagree Buddha, a guy like Price would totally be offer sheet possible.
Price was the 5th best goalie in the league last year, and 7th most valuable player...according to the voters. His possibility to get offer sheeted is totally there, you could blindside the habs with a huge offer and not even have to give up the world.

6 million a year and you're giving up just a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd.

Mont might match that though, say you give him 6.75 per year over 10 years and the habs don't match...you give up 2 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd. For a borderline elite goalie (who might very well be elite by that point)
2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd, on top of that ridiculous contract is a steep price to pay. Think of how little goalies have been acquired for in the last few years, its just not worth it asset wise.

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07-22-2011, 11:15 PM
  #117
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It's not as bad as people think it is, it's actually a very realistic fair way to do things. The only people who get hurt by it would be an immature person

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07-22-2011, 11:17 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd, on top of that ridiculous contract is a steep price to pay. Think of how little goalies have been acquired for in the last few years, its just not worth it asset wise.
There isn't a goalie in the league close to Carey's age who has the pedigree he has.

Elite goalies are few and far between and barring some unforeseen situation Price is going to be one of the best couple goalies in the league, and very soon.

I think he gets nominated for a Vezina next year.

Between other trades to recoup draft picks, and college/Europe signings you can easily make up the lost picks. Especially if you are a quality team and your 1st rounders are not that high.

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07-22-2011, 11:25 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Maybe. With the Cap going up as you're stating and we're probably going to not be alone with tons of money...how about offer sheets for Price and Subban if not signed? Wouldn't that be problematic? And as far as Gorges is concerned, well let's play the supposition game, 'cause that's about the only game WE can play around here....I fail to see that it took so much time for everybody to come to that salary and that EVERY side is happy we it. Maybe Habs but Gorges? So would it be too far fetch to think that Gorges will take it as a sign of no matter what we offer him, he's testing? Well I know....Gorges isn't Bobby Orr and I guess we'd replace him....but I figured he's a pretty important piece to this defensive corps for his versatility and leadership. Could be tougher to replace. So let's hope that it's not Gorges mindset. So that scenario could be the alarmist one.....not sure though that it's THAT improbable. Yet, everything could settle nicely, all 3 players could also sign 3 fine contract prior to July 1st and everybody will be happy....that's the other scenario. In the words of HF "wewillseeists...." We will see....

The best news is that we're avoided that stupid arbitrage....thank god.
Well, if we want to avoid the offer sheets, we can file for arbitration with both price and subban. They can't receive offer sheets that way. Also remember that the CBA has to be resigned, all could change next year, and habs might be in better shape being so loose with 1 year contracts.

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07-22-2011, 11:30 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
No. Just extremely tired of misplaced and misguided alarmists.



The average league salary will be close to 2,5 mil this upcoming season.

OMG, Gorges is paid the league average!

Did you wake-up in 1995 this morning?
I think the average salary for teams spending up to the cap is even around $3.1m or so. As such, Gorges would be paid below average for essentially playoff-bound clubs.


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Originally Posted by schumway2 View Post
It's called planning. You should have a long term vision when running an organization. Gorges is a UFA next year and if he has a good year you're going to end up compensating him due to the risk he walks. Ultra dumb by Gauthier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schumway2 View Post
Plekanec got 5m. You did pay him more than had you signed him earlier.
Indeed. Personally, I'm annoyed Montreal didn't sign Gorges to an 8-year deal at $1m per season a few years ago. I'm sure he would have accepted it since he was a #6-7 defenseman and marginal NHLer at that point. If Montreal had real management with real foresight, they would have seen his potential and locked him up for his prime--and, as a borderline NHLer, how could he deny $8m?

Here's to wishing we had Ken Holland.


Last edited by Mike8: 07-22-2011 at 11:36 PM.
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07-22-2011, 11:35 PM
  #121
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8M for 3 years would be about right for Georges if he regains his form.

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07-22-2011, 11:37 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
There isn't a goalie in the league close to Carey's age who has the pedigree he has.

Elite goalies are few and far between and barring some unforeseen situation Price is going to be one of the best couple goalies in the league, and very soon.

I think he gets nominated for a Vezina next year.

Between other trades to recoup draft picks, and college/Europe signings you can easily make up the lost picks. Especially if you are a quality team and your 1st rounders are not that high.
There's a boatload of good-very good goalies actually. Almost every team has 1. I don't think there will be an offer sheet. Even if there is, we'll match anyways and if it's ridiculous we'll take the 4 1sts.

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07-22-2011, 11:55 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by prairie hab View Post
Did Markov's camp consider what was best for the team as well?

I am distressed by this deal. The money is a non-issue, but the term is concerning.
The lack of term is concerning for me to, to me its a sign that Gorges either wants out or thinks he's worth big bucks.

I don't see why he wouldn't sign a 3-4 year deal in the $10-12m range after his injury. The only reason to leave $7.5-9m on the table is if you think you can play the year and risk injury for a much huger payday.

There is a 10-25% chance that Josh doesn't return to form / gets reinjured and he loses out on a tonne of money if that is the case. For him not to take a 3-4 yr deal and take a 1 yr 2.5m deal is a sign that he wants to get paid. I honestly can't see the Habs playing hard ball with him and only offering him a 1 yr deal after they gave Markov 3 years.

He wants to get paid ala Willie Beamin. I think he has some offensive talents that he hasn't had a chance to display because of his acl the past 4 years. The kid's got skillz.

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07-23-2011, 12:00 AM
  #124
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There is a 10-25% chance that Josh doesn't return to form / gets reinjured
That's an irrefutable stat if I've ever seen one.

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07-23-2011, 12:05 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
A couple main things:

1) Why do people even want to sign Gorges to a long term deal? Even putting the injury aside, non-offensive 4-5 defensive defensmen are not typically signed to long term deals. I see no reason to sign Gorges to a deal over 3 years. Nor do players in this ilk get big numbers, I doubt Gorges ever signs a contract over $3.5 million is his career.

2) Goaltenders are not at risk for offer sheets, even elite caliber goalies like Price. The compensation is just way too high for a saturated market.
Scuderi got a 13.6M$/4 year deal 2 years ago. With inflation and the fact Gorges is going to be roughly 3 years younger when he hits FA, 4M$ is most definately not out of the question.

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