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08-19-2011, 10:17 AM
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
Avery is in a contract year and will have just as good of a chance of playing on that line as MZA, especially considering MZA can be sent down without passing through waivers. Avery is boys with Richards and will probably get at least a few games/shifts here and there on the top line this season. I highly doubt he'll be a healthy scratch for more than 25 games (if that many) which bumps MZA out. No one should discount the fact that this being a contract year for Avery makes it an extremely important year for him and he'll probably perform relatively well.

Dubinsky - Richards - Gaborik
Wolski - AA - Callahan
Avery - Stepan - Fedetenko
Rupp - Boyle - Prust

Christensen/MZA
I didn't overlook Avery, he is a marginal player who crosses over the line and puts his teammates in positions they don't need to be in when he starts his antics.

Certain teams need that spark, this team does not.

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08-19-2011, 10:24 AM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
Avery is in a contract year and will have just as good of a chance of playing on that line as MZA, especially considering MZA can be sent down without passing through waivers. Avery is boys with Richards and will probably get at least a few games/shifts here and there on the top line this season. I highly doubt he'll be a healthy scratch for more than 25 games (if that many) which bumps MZA out. No one should discount the fact that this being a contract year for Avery makes it an extremely important year for him and he'll probably perform relatively well.

Dubinsky - Richards - Gaborik
Wolski - AA - Callahan
Avery - Stepan - Fedetenko
Rupp - Boyle - Prust

Christensen/MZA
If you flip Dubinsky and Wolski, your lines are exactly how I see the opening night roster. Fedotenko-Stepan-Avery were a solid line to start the season last year, and are perfect for a 3rd line that can control the puck down low in the offensive zone, score some goals, and with Fedotenko not be a defensive liability. MZA has a chance to beat Avery for the 3rd line RW job, but he will have to look great in camp and as you said this is Avery's contract year with his buddy Richards here, there is no reason for Avery not to win the 3rd line RW spot IMO.

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08-19-2011, 10:34 AM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
At the age of 22, Zuccarello had 3 points in 4 games against the BEST players in the world at the Olympics.

Why would Thomas get PP time and MZA not?

I know Thomas had some fancy stats in the OHL, but expecting him to come in and score 20-25 goals as a 19 year old at a whopping 165-170lbs is not likely at all.

PP#1
MZA-Dubinsky-Gaborik
Richards-Erixon

PP#2
Wolski-Anisimov-Callahan
Stepan-Girardi/MDZ

Being able to control the puck and make a pass backs defenders off creating space on the PP. MZA knows how to use space to his advantage.
Did I mention Thomas' stats? Did you read what you quoted? In fact I spoke about the OPPOSITE.

Why would Thomas get PP time? Again, because he can shoot.

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08-19-2011, 10:44 AM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I didn't overlook Avery, he is a marginal player who crosses over the line and puts his teammates in positions they don't need to be in when he starts his antics.

Certain teams need that spark, this team does not.
If Avery is a marginal player what is MZA or Christensen then for that matter? Avery was a key factor in making the playoffs in 2006 season, 2007 season, and in his return in 2008 from Dallas. Plus he was great in the series against Atlanta and New Jersey, getting players off their games and playing a physical style, something those teams lacked. If he can return to that form and boost his point production a bit more, in a contract year, he has a lot more to offer than what you consider a marginal player. I think MZA is best suited in a top 6 role and there aren't really any openings for him right now unless Wolski is a disaster. MZA could beat Avery out for that 3rd line RW spot, I just don't see it happening.

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08-19-2011, 10:50 AM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I didn't overlook Avery, he is a marginal player who crosses over the line and puts his teammates in positions they don't need to be in when he starts his antics.

Certain teams need that spark, this team does not.
All that means is that you did overlook him, because you feel he's a marginal player. I'm not sure how MZA can be seen as anything BUT a marginal player thus far, and since we're talking about which of two marginal players will grab the spot, other things such as it being Avery's contract year, MZA being waiver exempt, and Avery being Richards' buddy come into play. You overlooked all of those things. Unless MZA flat out blows Avery out of the water in camp, he goes down to the minors.

He doesn't have to go through waivers, which makes him an obvious choice and he's not a veteran player who has earned it over Avery either, so without having an obvious edge in camp, Avery in a contract year, with his buddy Richards being new to the team almost definitely gets the spot. Further, the argument could be made that MZA would benefit from more time in the minors as, even though he's 23, like any new NHLer (sophomore Del Zotto for example) it never hurts to get some seasoning.

While MZA can be sent down without penalty, brought up in case of an injury or if he really impresses down there, Avery, whether YOU like him or not, has been a regular NHLer his entire career and isn't about to lose his roster spot, in a contract year to MZA unless Zuccarello comes to camp looking like a vastly (and I mean vastly) improved player. Plus Avery is a bottom six player. Zuccarello is not. Players like Zuccarello NEED to play a lot and play in the top six to productive. We don't have room for Zucc in our top six and we won't be giving him more than ~10+ minutes a night so... it makes more sense to let him play ~20 minutes in the AHL while Avery is content with 10 minutes in the bottom six where he belongs and can be effective.

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08-19-2011, 10:53 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
If you flip Dubinsky and Wolski, your lines are exactly how I see the opening night roster. Fedotenko-Stepan-Avery were a solid line to start the season last year, and are perfect for a 3rd line that can control the puck down low in the offensive zone, score some goals, and with Fedotenko not be a defensive liability. MZA has a chance to beat Avery for the 3rd line RW job, but he will have to look great in camp and as you said this is Avery's contract year with his buddy Richards here, there is no reason for Avery not to win the 3rd line RW spot IMO.
Its certainly a possibility. I'd call that the 'worst case' lineup considering no young forwards would force their way onto the roster.

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08-19-2011, 10:57 AM
  #257
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Guys, guys, guys!

The topic is trade Zuc.?
Whether it's a one for one or as a throw-in.

Does anybody have any ideas about dealing him?

I got nothing against him.
But we are stuck w/Avery until the deadline at best, maybe, if not the whole year.

Wolski served a purpose with the move dealing Roszival. But Woslki has yet to prove he can turn on to an acceptable degree. If he's gonna insist on being lazy, I'd rather deal him, for anything, or buy out and put the cap space to use.

The CAP SPACE of Wolski + Avery + MZA is enough for a productive scoring LW that we need.
Who that LW should be and what we should give up for him is another question.
But we should set up this scenario and put it in motion so it can all happen without one part of it not following through and killing the plan.

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08-19-2011, 10:57 AM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Did I mention Thomas' stats? Did you read what you quoted? In fact I spoke about the OPPOSITE.

Why would Thomas get PP time? Again, because he can shoot.
But I mentioned shooting is not ALL that is needed on a PP. You need to be able to control the puck and utilize space.

The post wasn't totally pointed at you, just tagging on to the conversation.

I like Thomas a lot, but people are not giving MZA enough credit. The guy knows how to put up points against MEN. He dominated the SEL and was one of the better offensive players on the WolfPack when he was down there and figured out NA hockey.

He had about .5ppg in his 40+ games in the NHL and then wore down. He has been training hard in NA with a skating instructor and getting stronger. Why does everyone seem to think he won't improve on his numbers?

Did he have a lot to learn? Of course. Having played 78 games on a smaller ice surface is MUCH more demanding than playing 55 in the SEL.

If he scores 10 goals and has 30+ assists next season is that not good enough production from a 23-24 y/o 3rd line winger?

It just baffles my mind that people want to give up so quickly (not directed at you SSM) on a player with so much skill and drive and yet complain about the team not having enough skill.

MZA has Leino like potential in the right position. His passing ability is better than 85% of the roster (Richards, Gaborik, maybe Wolski).

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08-19-2011, 11:04 AM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
All that means is that you did overlook him, because you feel he's a marginal player. I'm not sure how MZA can be seen as anything BUT a marginal player thus far, and since we're talking about which of two marginal players will grab the spot, other things such as it being Avery's contract year, MZA being waiver exempt, and Avery being Richards' buddy come into play. You overlooked all of those things. Unless MZA flat out blows Avery out of the water in camp, he goes down to the minors.

He doesn't have to go through waivers, which makes him an obvious choice and he's not a veteran player who has earned it over Avery either, so without having an obvious edge in camp, Avery in a contract year, with his buddy Richards being new to the team almost definitely gets the spot. Further, the argument could be made that MZA would benefit from more time in the minors as, even though he's 23, like any new NHLer (sophomore Del Zotto for example) it never hurts to get some seasoning.

While MZA can be sent down without penalty, brought up in case of an injury or if he really impresses down there, Avery, whether YOU like him or not, has been a regular NHLer his entire career and isn't about to lose his roster spot, in a contract year to MZA unless Zuccarello comes to camp looking like a vastly (and I mean vastly) improved player. Plus Avery is a bottom six player. Zuccarello is not. Players like Zuccarello NEED to play a lot and play in the top six to productive. We don't have room for Zucc in our top six and we won't be giving him more than ~10+ minutes a night so... it makes more sense to let him play ~20 minutes in the AHL while Avery is content with 10 minutes in the bottom six where he belongs and can be effective.
It's great to say Avery is guaranteed a spot in the line-up because he is "buddies" with Richards but I would rather win games. Torts doesn't like Avery. He puts his teammates in positions where they have to defend him or themselves because of the crap he does.

This teams identity is to work hard and play hard without being dirty. It's a blue-collar team now that creates its own energy with Boyle, Prust, Rupp, Callahan, Dubinsky, they don't need a pot stirrer, they need skill.

MZA does NOT need to be a top-6 player. He needs time to develop in the NHL. 3rd line RW is a perfect spot for him. Put him in the AHL and he will score a crazy amount of points. He is too good for that league.

Avery has been ineffective for (2) years. He was a good player when he was effective, but that was in the past when the team needed his edge.

Christensen should not even be on the team but I understand needing an extra forward for cheap. With the signing of Rupp, Avery has no where to play. He is an insurance policy IF MZA looks like total crap in camp. Besides that, the Rangers had a lot of injuries last year, he will still get into 30+ games.

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08-19-2011, 11:04 AM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
Its certainly a possibility. I'd call that the 'worst case' lineup considering no young forwards would force their way onto the roster.
I really thought Hagelin would make the team or Thomas if he looks great in camp, but the signings of Feds and Rupp prevent them from making the team IMO. Hagelin would be great for a call up, he has more to offer than Weise, and with Thomas I am in no rush to throw this kid to the pros. Besides if he makes it I want him playing on the top 6, not necessarily the bottom 6. Zucc to me should also be a top 6 or nothing guy, he is in the same spot as Prucha where he couldn't earn a top 6 spot and wasn't used properly as a 3rd liner. Let Zucc start in Hartford and get the call when needed, no rush to trade him.

Erixon and Valentenko should be the 5-6 to start the season, Eminger the scratch and MDZ gets some more seasoning in Hartford. So kids will make the team, just on defense. A 3rd pair of Erixon-MDZ has failure written all over it to me and I prefer we keep our top 4 d pairs together.

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08-19-2011, 11:09 AM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Guys, guys, guys!

The topic is trade Zuc.?
Whether it's a one for one or as a throw-in.

Does anybody have any ideas about dealing him?

I got nothing against him.
But we are stuck w/Avery until the deadline at best, maybe, if not the whole year.

Wolski served a purpose with the move dealing Roszival. But Woslki has yet to prove he can turn on to an acceptable degree. If he's gonna insist on being lazy, I'd rather deal him, for anything, or buy out and put the cap space to use.

The CAP SPACE of Wolski + Avery + MZA is enough for a productive scoring LW that we need.
Who that LW should be and what we should give up for him is another question.
But we should set up this scenario and put it in motion so it can all happen without one part of it not following through and killing the plan.
With the drop in Drury's buy-out, Avery, Wolski, Fedotenko and Christensen gone and this line-up:

______-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-MZA
Rupp-Boyle-Prust
Weise

Staal-Girardi
McDonagh-Sauer
MDZ-Erixon
Valentenko

Hank
Biron

They would STILL have enough space to sign Parise to about a 6-8 million dollar deal. Next year would not be the problem. It's down the road when they need to re-sign Hank, Callahan, Dubinsky, Staal, Boyle, Prust, Stepan, Anisimov, Sauer, McDonagh, Erixon and all of their other young talent to 2nd and 3rd contracts.

Are you okay losing Sauer and Anisimov for Parise in the future?

For me, if it meant a serious window of 2-3 years at Cup runs, hell yes!

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08-19-2011, 11:13 AM
  #262
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I truly can't stand the way people on message boards behave.

People advance logical arguments concerning why Zuccarello is UNLIKELY to make the team and posters who are cuddling their Zuccarello action figures turn it into "why do you want to give up on him?"

But who said anything about WANTING to give up on him? Not predicting him to make the team/play more than 40-50 games/be a central part of the team going forward is not the same thing as WANTING to give up on him, or WANTING him to fail. It's simply that we don't get the feeling it's going to happen. We're not two opposite sides in some war for Zuccarello's right to play, where if all you Zuccarello believers convince us he has the tools to succeed, we'll give in and Torts will magically give him 82 games. We're just fans of the same team who have different PREDICTIONS (not necessarily in line with our desires; just how we see it shaking out) regarding what our roster will look like. You need to understand that it's OK for a Rangers fan not to think Zucc is going to make it. It doesn't make that person against Zuccarello; it just means we see the lineup shaping up differently than you do.

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08-19-2011, 11:20 AM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
With the drop in Drury's buy-out, Avery, Wolski, Fedotenko and Christensen gone and this line-up:

______-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-MZA
Rupp-Boyle-Prust
Weise

Staal-Girardi
McDonagh-Sauer
MDZ-Erixon
Valentenko

Hank
Biron

They would STILL have enough space to sign Parise to about a 6-8 million dollar deal. Next year would not be the problem. It's down the road when they need to re-sign Hank, Callahan, Dubinsky, Staal, Boyle, Prust, Stepan, Anisimov, Sauer, McDonagh, Erixon and all of their other young talent to 2nd and 3rd contracts.

Are you okay losing Sauer and Anisimov for Parise in the future?

For me, if it meant a serious window of 2-3 years at Cup runs, hell yes!
No on losing Sauer/Anisimov in most trade scenarios.
Sauer is younger, earns less, does much/most of the job as well, and is less beat up, so if a D went, it would be Girardi.

I'm not looking to move either (I'd move Boyle or equivalent first) but I'd move Stepan before I move AA.

All I was saying is, somebody may become available.
Cap neutral draft picks may be in the equation.
We may need space available quickly, if not immediately.
We should, as a standby, try to move the above 3 including Zuc to have the space.

On another tack...

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08-19-2011, 11:21 AM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
I truly can't stand the way people on message boards behave.

People advance logical arguments concerning why Zuccarello is UNLIKELY to make the team and posters who are cuddling their Zuccarello action figures turn it into "why do you want to give up on him?"

But who said anything about WANTING to give up on him? Not predicting him to make the team/play more than 40-50 games/be a central part of the team going forward is not the same thing as WANTING to give up on him, or WANTING him to fail. It's simply that we don't get the feeling it's going to happen. We're not two opposite sides in some war for Zuccarello's right to play, where if all you Zuccarello believers convince us he has the tools to succeed, we'll give in and Torts will magically give him 82 games. We're just fans of the same team who have different PREDICTIONS (not necessarily in line with our desires; just how we see it shaking out) regarding what our roster will look like. You need to understand that it's OK for a Rangers fan not to think Zucc is going to make it. It doesn't make that person against Zuccarello; it just means we see the lineup shaping up differently than you do.
You are doing the same thing with Sean Avery, the same guy who had a total of 24 points in 73 games last year. That is (1) more point than MZA had in 43 games.

I happen to believe the team has enough "grit" without Avery in the line-up and that gambling on a skilled player to come in and inject the team with some skill and creativity is not a bad thing.

Go back and re-read this thread, there are people who want to give up on MZA and feel he will never be an NHLer. That is giving up on a young player too soon.

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08-19-2011, 11:22 AM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
I truly can't stand the way people on message boards behave.

People advance logical arguments concerning why Zuccarello is UNLIKELY to make the team and posters who are cuddling their Zuccarello action figures turn it into "why do you want to give up on him?"

But who said anything about WANTING to give up on him? Not predicting him to make the team/play more than 40-50 games/be a central part of the team going forward is not the same thing as WANTING to give up on him, or WANTING him to fail. It's simply that we don't get the feeling it's going to happen. We're not two opposite sides in some war for Zuccarello's right to play, where if all you Zuccarello believers convince us he has the tools to succeed, we'll give in and Torts will magically give him 82 games. We're just fans of the same team who have different PREDICTIONS (not necessarily in line with our desires; just how we see it shaking out) regarding what our roster will look like. You need to understand that it's OK for a Rangers fan not to think Zucc is going to make it. It doesn't make that person against Zuccarello; it just means we see the lineup shaping up differently than you do.
Well, to be fair, no one (or at least not I) are bashing people for wanting to give up on him. You're saying you and others make arguments to why he might not be on the team, so us "fanboys" make arguments to why he might be on the team. That's how an argument or discussion usually works.

I do agree with you though that making arguments about his likelyhood to be on the team or not is not the same as saying he SHOULD be on the team or not although sometimes it can be quite easy to misinterpret, or overinterpret what people are writing. They do get mixed up quite easily and if you or someone else misunderstood me then I apologize.

I both think he will be on the team and want him to be on the team for reasons I've already mentioned. Those are my arguments, and I understand other peoples arguments against him. Doesn't necessarily mean I agree with them but people are entitled to their own opinion. In the end we'll just have to wait and see. A year from now we'll know.

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08-19-2011, 11:24 AM
  #266
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On another tack...

Having moved Zuc, continued,
responding to your suggestion of Parise.
Just for the hell of it, first thoughts here,

instead of Sauer + AA,
what about Girardi + a G prospect + X for Parise as presently contracted?
We're taking the risk of 1 year but paying minimal.

Lou L has to admit to reality of Brodeur close to 'bah-bye' and a guy like Cam Talbot could be interesting, and Girardi would help. They'd want scorer ...Wolski a short term fit throw in?

Your thoughts...

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08-19-2011, 11:33 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
On another tack...

Having moved Zuc, continued,
responding to your suggestion of Parise.
Just for the hell of it, first thoughts here,

instead of Sauer + AA,
what about Girardi + a G prospect + X for Parise as presently contracted?
We're taking the risk of 1 year but paying minimal.

Lou L has to admit to reality of Brodeur close to 'bah-bye' and a guy like Cam Talbot could be interesting, and Girardi would help. They'd want scorer ...Wolski a short term fit throw in?

Your thoughts...
I don't foresee him ever being traded to the Rangers, I meant as an UFA.

I mean that down the road the Rangers will have cap problems if they sign him and may lose a couple of their young home-grown players if they make that move.

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08-19-2011, 11:35 AM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
You are doing the same thing with Sean Avery, the same guy who had a total of 24 points in 73 games last year. That is (1) more point than MZA had in 43 games.

I happen to believe the team has enough "grit" without Avery in the line-up and that gambling on a skilled player to come in and inject the team with some skill and creativity is not a bad thing.

Go back and re-read this thread, there are people who want to give up on MZA and feel he will never be an NHLer. That is giving up on a young player too soon.
And how much PP time did Avery have? MZA actually got some PP time, MZA was actually played with other players who can produce points besides the week long stretch where Avery played with Gaborik and EC.

MZA should not be traded and when the inevitable injuries happen I want MZA available to be called up all the while he will hopefully be tearing it up with the Whale. If you ask me to choose today who will have more of an impact playing 3rd line RW with Feds and Stepan, I want Avery who can provide physical play, he controls the puck down low especially behind the net, drives other teams crazy, is not afraid to fight, and hopefully will chip in some more goals this season.

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08-19-2011, 11:42 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
And how much PP time did Avery have? MZA actually got some PP time, MZA was actually played with other players who can produce points besides the week long stretch where Avery played with Gaborik and EC.

MZA should not be traded and when the inevitable injuries happen I want MZA available to be called up all the while he will hopefully be tearing it up with the Whale. If you ask me to choose today who will have more of an impact playing 3rd line RW with Feds and Stepan, I want Avery who can provide physical play, he controls the puck down low especially behind the net, drives other teams crazy, is not afraid to fight, and hopefully will chip in some more goals this season.
MZA got that time because he could produce. When he didn't they sent him back down. I would put my money on MZA improving more than Avery and if MZA was getting those top-9 minutes last year over Avery then he most likely again this year.

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08-19-2011, 03:27 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
MZA got that time because he could produce. When he didn't they sent him back down. I would put my money on MZA improving more than Avery and if MZA was getting those top-9 minutes last year over Avery then he most likely again this year.
If you read my post I never disagreed that MZA produced, the thing you don't seem to understand is that MZA is best suited to be a top 6 offensive player, not on the 3rd line on a cycle and grind line. Avery is not a top 6 player, he is a 3rd liner and he should beat MZA for that spot.

It is also Only your opinion that MZA will improve in his sophomore season, as opposed to a veteran who had an off year and is now entering a contract year. You stated in an earlier post that Torts doesn't like Avery, so then why is he still here? Why was Avery inserted into the lineup at MZA's expense if MZA was producing so much? Avery could have been buried in Hartford last season or bought out, this off-season but that's not the case because Torts has no problem with him. When Torts does not like someone they are shown the door... just take a look at Mara, Zherdev, and Redden.

If you think MZA provides more offense that is fine, I won't disagree with you, but he is not better suited for the 3rd line and some of your argument is just grasping for straws. My argument is not that Avery is buds with Richards so now he will show up... my argument is that this is a contract year, he is a veteran, if he doesn't have an a solid season he will scratched, waived, possibly demoted and his NHL career will be over. He knows what he has to do in order to be successful in the NHL, MZA has not achieved this yet. I hope he can, but it probably won't be at Avery's expense IMO.

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08-19-2011, 03:33 PM
  #271
Primetime Powerplay
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
With the drop in Drury's buy-out, Avery, Wolski, Fedotenko and Christensen gone and this line-up:

______-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-MZA
Rupp-Boyle-Prust
Weise

Staal-Girardi
McDonagh-Sauer
MDZ-Erixon
Valentenko

Hank
Biron

They would STILL have enough space to sign Parise to about a 6-8 million dollar deal. Next year would not be the problem. It's down the road when they need to re-sign Hank, Callahan, Dubinsky, Staal, Boyle, Prust, Stepan, Anisimov, Sauer, McDonagh, Erixon and all of their other young talent to 2nd and 3rd contracts.

Are you okay losing Sauer and Anisimov for Parise in the future?

For me, if it meant a serious window of 2-3 years at Cup runs, hell yes!
ehh i would be okay with this

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08-19-2011, 03:36 PM
  #272
NYR Viper
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
If you read my post I never disagreed that MZA produced, the thing you don't seem to understand is that MZA is best suited to be a top 6 offensive player, not on the 3rd line on a cycle and grind line. Avery is not a top 6 player, he is a 3rd liner and he should beat MZA for that spot.

It is also Only your opinion that MZA will improve in his sophomore season, as opposed to a veteran who had an off year and is now entering a contract year. You stated in an earlier post that Torts doesn't like Avery, so then why is he still here? Why was Avery inserted into the lineup at MZA's expense if MZA was producing so much? Avery could have been buried in Hartford last season or bought out, this off-season but that's not the case because Torts has no problem with him. When Torts does not like someone they are shown the door... just take a look at Mara, Zherdev, and Redden.

If you think MZA provides more offense that is fine, I won't disagree with you, but he is not better suited for the 3rd line and some of your argument is just grasping for straws. My argument is not that Avery is buds with Richards so now he will show up... my argument is that this is a contract year, he is a veteran, if he doesn't have an a solid season he will scratched, waived, possibly demoted and his NHL career will be over. He knows what he has to do in order to be successful in the NHL, MZA has not achieved this yet. I hope he can, but it probably won't be at Avery's expense IMO.
MZA is in a contract year as well.

With Stepan on the 3rd line, that line will not be a grind-it-out line anyways. It already has some skill there. If he was playing with Boyle and Rupp, I may agree with you, but he wouldn't be, at least not all the time.

I am by no means grasping at straws. I am going off of what I saw last season. Avery was benched and given very little playing time as a 4th liner because of his dumb penalties. Rupp was brought in as the player to replace him.

The reason Avery is not out of NYC is because he is a solid depth player. He can be placed anywhere in the line-up if need be but he is not more than a borderline 3rd liner if that and on this team, there are more effective players in his role (Boyle, Prust, Rupp, Fedotenko).

If Rupp was not signed, I would agree with you but he is here.

He is their insurance policy for that RW spot or if someone gets injured again like last season (Callahan, Frolov, Drury, Dubinsky, Gaborik, Boogaard, Fedotenko, Christensen).

Its not that I don't think he can play in the NHL, he has no spot on THIS team. There are enough players who are like him and better at what he does than him to play over him.

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08-19-2011, 03:41 PM
  #273
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double post

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08-19-2011, 04:05 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
MZA is in a contract year as well.

With Stepan on the 3rd line, that line will not be a grind-it-out line anyways. It already has some skill there. If he was playing with Boyle and Rupp, I may agree with you, but he wouldn't be, at least not all the time.

I am by no means grasping at straws. I am going off of what I saw last season. Avery was benched and given very little playing time as a 4th liner because of his dumb penalties. Rupp was brought in as the player to replace him.

The reason Avery is not out of NYC is because he is a solid depth player. He can be placed anywhere in the line-up if need be but he is not more than a borderline 3rd liner if that and on this team, there are more effective players in his role (Boyle, Prust, Rupp, Fedotenko).

If Rupp was not signed, I would agree with you but he is here.

He is their insurance policy for that RW spot or if someone gets injured again like last season (Callahan, Frolov, Drury, Dubinsky, Gaborik, Boogaard, Fedotenko, Christensen).

Its not that I don't think he can play in the NHL, he has no spot on THIS team. There are enough players who are like him and better at what he does than him to play over him.
Not trying to sound like a jerk but have you ever seen Rupp play? He can fight, win faceoffs, and score some occasional goals (usually against the Rangers)... he is not a super pest like Sean Avery. Rupp was brought here to handle some rough stuff, he is not a typical NHL enforcer, but he is filling Boogard's role, not Avery's. The only things they have in common is both will fight and both are best suited to be on the 3rd or 4th line. Avery also drew a ton of penalties, so just because you clearly dislike him you are ignoring the facts.

Fedotenko-Stepan-Avery... that is a grind down low line, just watch some highlights from the first game of the past season when the Rangers played the Sabres. Those goals came from work down low, not off the rush.

MZA was also benched at times and in some games really only saw the ice on the PP. You think he will be better based on what? Skating with Barb Underhill? He can work as hard as he wants, he is not a 3rd line player... he suffers from the same thing as Prucha, he is a top 6 player, being forced to play 3rd line where his lack of size, lack of speed, and defensive shortcomings will be exposed. For him to be his best he needs to be on a line with a finisher like Gabby or even Dubi IMO.

Avery is quite an expensive player for Depth purposes on a team that has little wiggle room in the cap. If you think MZA will beat Avery out for a roster spot you are more than entitled to that opinion, but if you are going to argue that someone who couldn't be trusted in the playoffs, was sent down because of that, and is being forced to play on the 3rd line when clearly they are not suited for that role you are mistaken. When it comes down to it, MZA can get top 6 ice in Hartford and be called up when he is needed, can't say that for Avery and that along with Avery would be slotted on the 3rd line where he belongs is why he wins that position as far as I am concerned.

And saying Torts does not like Avery is grasping at straws.

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08-19-2011, 05:32 PM
  #275
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=5...id=DL|NHL|home

Who will make up the Rangers' top line?
Brad Richards and Marian Gaborik seem to be a lock to play on New York's No. 1 line. But who will be their left wing? The competition is wide open in training camp, but look for Brandon Dubinsky, Ruslan Fedotenko, Wojtek Wolski and maybe even Mats Zuccarello to get good looks out of camp.

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