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Rangers to trade Zuccarello ?

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Old
08-10-2011, 07:43 PM
  #176
allstar3970
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This has probably been said, but honestly it depends on if his skating improves. A big reason why a guy like St. Louis succeeds at his size is having that extra gear to create separation on the smaller NA rink.

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08-11-2011, 12:18 PM
  #177
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This has probably been said, but honestly it depends on if his skating improves. A big reason why a guy like St. Louis succeeds at his size is having that extra gear to create separation on the smaller NA rink.
His skating improving that much would border on a miracle.

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08-12-2011, 11:43 PM
  #178
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His skating improving that much would border on a miracle.
To good to pass up on:
St. Zucca

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08-12-2011, 11:48 PM
  #179
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If Zucca could improve his skating and defense while continuing to grow offensively, I think we got a pretty good player on our hands. He has all the skills to be a great playmaker in this league, just needs to get faster and continue to adapt to the smaller rink.

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08-13-2011, 12:03 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by AJBergy86 View Post
If Zucca could improve his skating and defense while continuing to grow offensively, I think we got a pretty good player on our hands. He has all the skills to be a great playmaker in this league, just needs to get faster and continue to adapt to the smaller rink.


So all he has to improve is his skating, defense, and offense....?

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08-13-2011, 12:07 AM
  #181
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So all he has to improve is his skating, defense, and offense....?
All I am saying is I think that he can develop in to a very good player for this franchise. Any player that could lead the SEL in points definately has a lot of potential to be a very useful player

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08-13-2011, 05:22 AM
  #182
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All I am saying is I think that he can develop in to a very good player for this franchise. Any player that could lead the SEL in points definately has a lot of potential to be a very useful player
Gotta agree with you. He scored at a 0.5ppg pace last year, while splitting time between AHL and NHL. He slowed down a bit down the stretch yes, but that's kind of expected for a rookie, and especially one coming over from Europe.

As you mentioned he obviously has some areas of his game he needs to work on. The offense, not so much. The way he see the ice is amongst the NHL's elite, but he has to work on his skating and build some core muscles so he doesn't get knocked off the puck so easily. His defensive game isn't over the top, but it's not by any means poor either. He's never going to be a Selke finalist, but he got solid positioning and good hockey IQ which is enough for a player of his type.

I think we'll definitely see a more consistent and stronger Zuccarello this year. I can definitely see him gather ~60 points or so, if he's given proper time on any PP unit and the 2 top lines. Knowing Torts, he'll probably rotate the lines a bit, and he does seem to like Zuccarello. Enough to give him a good chance and to make proper use of him at least.

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08-13-2011, 06:08 AM
  #183
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Two different types of players, St Louis & MZA. STL is a speed ruch player. MZA is a down low player who works best around the net. MZA is now playing in the best league so people should allow for an adjustment period. Totally different type of league and a smaller rink. At least another year should be afforded him. The problem he has though is that there are now other players waiting a turn and Kreider on the horizon.

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08-13-2011, 06:46 AM
  #184
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St. Louis in this first season had 13 games and 2 point for Flames in NHL. Wonder how many who wrote him off then in 1999.

Zuccarello doesnt fit into the style NYR plays. The only way I can see him have success here is that he plays in line with Callahan and Richards. But I guess that is not gonna happen. He won`t have success playing with ordinary players like Boyle, Stepan, Wolski and/or Avery.

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08-13-2011, 07:13 AM
  #185
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again no pt to move him now, give him a chance and if he doesnt fit in then he is a great trading chip at the deadline

Rangers could afford to package Zuke and Weise for example to get a nice LW if need be

long season though so i rather see what Zuke can do and Wolski for that matter

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08-13-2011, 07:17 PM
  #186
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again no pt to move him now, give him a chance and if he doesnt fit in then he is a great trading chip at the deadline

Rangers could afford to package Zuke and Weise for example to get a nice LW if need be

long season though so i rather see what Zuke can do and Wolski for that matter
Agreed

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08-13-2011, 07:40 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by KenGuru View Post
St. Louis in this first season had 13 games and 2 point for Flames in NHL. Wonder how many who wrote him off then in 1999.

Zuccarello doesnt fit into the style NYR plays. The only way I can see him have success here is that he plays in line with Callahan and Richards. But I guess that is not gonna happen. He won`t have success playing with ordinary players like Boyle, Stepan, Wolski and/or Avery.
Stepan, who scored 20 goals, 40 points as a 20 year old rookie is "ordinary"?

Stop making excuses for Zuccarello. He's undersized, a below average skater, below average strength, and a liability defensively.

The only one who can make him a great player is himself, if he drastically improved his skating, strength, and becomes useful at both ends of the rink.

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08-13-2011, 07:45 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Stepan, who scored 20 goals, 40 points as a 20 year old rookie is "ordinary"?

Stop making excuses for Zuccarello. He's undersized, a below average skater, below average strength, and a liability defensively.

The only one who can make him a great player is himself, if he drastically improved his skating, strength, and becomes useful at both ends of the rink.
That.
Totally agree glad I'm not the only one.

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08-13-2011, 08:01 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Rangerdanger20 View Post
That.
Totally agree glad I'm not the only one.
I am sorry, but suggesting to toss away a SEL elite player after seeing him for half a season in NA suggests that you are no more than a 18 year old with a grudge. Why, I dont know, but as a NYR fan I would think that givng players atleast a full year to prove themselves would be in MZA's, NYR, and all fans of NYR's best intrest.
Thankfully I believe the people who actually run the club has enough hockey sense to understand this, even though some fans do not.
Wanting instant success is not what being a fan is to me. Buying yourself to success only means having a thick-ass wallet. Bulding a team takes patience.

If Mats does not find a place in the team this season I am in full favor for moving him, but it is way too early to cast that judgement 40 games into his .05 PPG NHL carreer.


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08-13-2011, 09:09 PM
  #190
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I am sorry, but suggesting to toss away a SEL elite player after seeing him for half a season in NA suggests that you are no more than a 18 year old with a grudge. Why, I dont know, but as a NYR fan I would think that givng players atleast a full year to prove themselves would be in MZA's, NYR, and all fans of NYR's best intrest.
Thankfully I believe the people who actually run the club has enough hockey sense to understand this, even though some fans do not.
Wanting instant success is not what being a fan is to me. Buying yourself to success only means having a thick-ass wallet. Bulding a team takes patience.

If Mats does not find a place in the team this season I am in full favor for moving him, but it is way too early to cast that judgement 40 games into his .05 PPG NHL carreer.
Bbbbbbbingo. Been saying this (shockingly, in the minority) all offseason. It's the same posters who pencil in guys who have never played a NHL game like Thomas in over a guy who scored at a 40 point pace in a limited role in half a season as a rookie. If it was Kreider who scored 0.5ppg and was money in shootouts in his first 40 games in a limited, mostly 3rd line role, we wouldn't be having this discussion, but for some reason Zuccarello has attracted negativity from a lot of uneducated fans here. He's got such a great attitude as well and I'm sure he's worked and is working hard this offseason to improve his overall game. I'm very much looking forward to watching him explode this year. I'll see the rest of you on the bandwagon with Zuccarello avatars then.

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08-13-2011, 09:25 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
I am sorry, but suggesting to toss away a SEL elite player after seeing him for half a season in NA suggests that you are no more than a 18 year old with a grudge. Why, I dont know, but as a NYR fan I would think that givng players atleast a full year to prove themselves would be in MZA's, NYR, and all fans of NYR's best intrest.
Thankfully I believe the people who actually run the club has enough hockey sense to understand this, even though some fans do not.
Wanting instant success is not what being a fan is to me. Buying yourself to success only means having a thick-ass wallet. Bulding a team takes patience.

If Mats does not find a place in the team this season I am in full favor for moving him, but it is way too early to cast that judgement 40 games into his .05 PPG NHL carreer.
I'm sorry but where did I suggest we throw him away?

I'm just not givin the guy credit where it's not due, comparing him to MSL is absolutely rediculous at this point, the only thing they have in common is their size; or lack there of.

I want him to succcede as much as any of his norweigen fan club, and in not giving up on him already.

But from what I've seen he's top 6 or bust. He's a below average skater, a liability on the defensive side of the puck as it is and doesn't have the size or strength to make up for it.

Does he have room for improvement, yes but im still skeptical that he will as I am with any prospect that hasnt proved anything to me in the NA game. But you all sugar coat this guy with excuses and make it seam like once he breaks out of some shell he going to be Marty St.Louis 2.0

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08-13-2011, 09:36 PM
  #192
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Trading Del Zotto would be absolutely stupid. From the very little we saw from the kid -- not only did he have moments where he made nice plays with the puck finding open teammates but he didn't shy away from contact one bit. His heart will make him a solid NHL player soon IMO. He'd be a tremendous piece to a team with talented depth up and down their line-up.

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08-14-2011, 03:11 AM
  #193
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I'm sorry but where did I suggest we throw him away?

I'm just not givin the guy credit where it's not due, comparing him to MSL is absolutely rediculous at this point, the only thing they have in common is their size; or lack there of.

I want him to succcede as much as any of his norweigen fan club, and in not giving up on him already.

But from what I've seen he's top 6 or bust. He's a below average skater, a liability on the defensive side of the puck as it is and doesn't have the size or strength to make up for it.

Does he have room for improvement, yes but im still skeptical that he will as I am with any prospect that hasnt proved anything to me in the NA game. But you all sugar coat this guy with excuses and make it seam like once he breaks out of some shell he going to be Marty St.Louis 2.0
I,as a norwegian,hoping for succes for Zucca. That would have been gold for the hockey interess here in Norway. Because the media cover hockey ten times more if he succeeded.

Following him for two seasons in Norway,and two in Sweeden, I know what he can do offensively,and I promise you,that CAN be entertaining.

But I agreed with you to 100%,he has to be a top 6. He is not useful enough for a bottom 6 role. And I fear there is no room for him,in such a roll as the Ranger roster look right know. (But there will be injuries,not that I hope for keyplayers to be injured)

I do believe he fitt better on the larger european ice surface,but hope and pray he make it in the NHL. It would have been so importent to the small hockeyinteresses here in Norway,who is all soccer and boring cross country skiing.

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08-14-2011, 07:24 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
I am sorry, but suggesting to toss away a SEL elite player after seeing him for half a season in NA suggests that you are no more than a 18 year old with a grudge. Why, I dont know, but as a NYR fan I would think that givng players atleast a full year to prove themselves would be in MZA's, NYR, and all fans of NYR's best intrest.
Thankfully I believe the people who actually run the club has enough hockey sense to understand this, even though some fans do not.
Wanting instant success is not what being a fan is to me. Buying yourself to success only means having a thick-ass wallet. Bulding a team takes patience.

If Mats does not find a place in the team this season I am in full favor for moving him, but it is way too early to cast that judgement 40 games into his .05 PPG NHL carreer.
First off, the poster was responding to my post.

So in essence you directing this toward me.

Zuccarello has skill, yes, he was great in the SEL, that's great. This isn't the SEL. His weak skating, weak strength, and no understanding of the game away from the puck wasn't an issue on the larger rinks, in a lower league. This is the NHL, and those things matter.

Zuccarello didn't play with "ordinary" players. He played with a kid who scored 40 points as a 20 year old. He also played with Wolski who has scored 50 points in the NHL before. He also played with Dubinsky, who is anything but ordinary.

The thing that holds Zuccarello back is Zuccarello. He needs to vastly improve his skating, strength, and responsibility on the ice.

Everyone knows what his PPG was. And it was also a very small sample size, so it proves nothing. Despite his PPG, he still managed to play himself out of a regular shift. The fans didn't do that to him.

Everyone knows what his skill level is. And it wont save him if he can't play the game. This isn't a skills competition, this is NHL hockey.

Besides, who is suggesting trading him? He wouldn't garner any value.

They're going to give him a chance to improve, if he doesn't, he will be one of countless small guys that couldn't stick in the NHL. If he improves, then he will be a nice story.

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08-14-2011, 07:38 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Bbbbbbbingo. Been saying this (shockingly, in the minority) all offseason. It's the same posters who pencil in guys who have never played a NHL game like Thomas in over a guy who scored at a 40 point pace in a limited role in half a season as a rookie. If it was Kreider who scored 0.5ppg and was money in shootouts in his first 40 games in a limited, mostly 3rd line role, we wouldn't be having this discussion, but for some reason Zuccarello has attracted negativity from a lot of uneducated fans here. He's got such a great attitude as well and I'm sure he's worked and is working hard this offseason to improve his overall game. I'm very much looking forward to watching him explode this year. I'll see the rest of you on the bandwagon with Zuccarello avatars then.
There's a HUGE difference between 18-19-20 year old kids that have already shown more in North American hockey, have the size, strength, skating, and brain to play NHL hockey... and a 23 soon to be 24 year old that was a poor skater, weak, one of the smallest players in the league, and can't play away from the puck and lost confidence in the coach after a short period of time evidenced by be scratched/demoted and benched.

His .5 PPG in 40 games means nothing.

Can he win races to pucks, can he hold off much bigger and stronger defenders over an 82 game regular season plus an elevated marathon of the playoffs? Can improve defensively so Tortorella can put him on the ice more?

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08-14-2011, 07:57 AM
  #196
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I wouldn't say that Zuccarello has 'no understanding' of defensive hockey — his issues lie with his sub par skating and lack of strength. If he was a better skater, he'd be an adequate defensive forward, certainly not a liability.

Zuccarello is intriguing, but if he doesn't improve upon his lack of speed and separation in tight, he's going to have a hard time sticking in the NHL. If you don't naturally have that quick first step or speed, though, you probably never will — he can certainly work on his technique, but a common trait in successful <5'9 players is excellent speed and agility, along with great hockey sense. Zuccarello is a very smart player, but he won't be able to utilize that trait of he is unable to create his own space.

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08-14-2011, 08:08 AM
  #197
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I wouldn't go as far to say Zuccarello has 'no understanding' of defensive hockey his issues lie with his sub par skating and lack of strength. If he was a better skater, he'd be an adequate defensive forward, certainly not a liability.

Zuccarello is intriguing, but if he doesn't improve upon his lack of speed and separation in tight, he's going to have a hard time sticking in the NHL. If you don't naturally have that quick first step or speed, though, you probably never will he can certainly work on his technique, but a common trait in successful <5'9 players is excellent speed and agility, along with great hockey sense. Zuccarello is a very smart player, but he won't be able to utilize that trait of he is unable to create his own space.
I don't think he's that great defensively. He's able to read the play alright, but it hasn't helped thusfar.

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08-14-2011, 09:26 AM
  #198
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Speed? Strength? Bah . . . .

Some of you guys put too much emphasis on attributes.

Zuccs needs to play. His hockey fundamentals, I.Q, and overall knowledge and understanding of the game is what needs to ultimately improve. That's what's going to impact his game the most, imo. Faster wheels and some muscle is just going to round out his game a bit. It's not going to make/break his career.

There have been slower, and weaker players thrive in this league.

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08-14-2011, 12:20 PM
  #199
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There's a HUGE difference between 18-19-20 year old kids that have already shown more in North American hockey, have the size, strength, skating, and brain to play NHL hockey... and a 23 soon to be 24 year old that was a poor skater, weak, one of the smallest players in the league, and can't play away from the puck and lost confidence in the coach after a short period of time evidenced by be scratched/demoted and benched.

His .5 PPG in 40 games means nothing.

Can he win races to pucks, can he hold off much bigger and stronger defenders over an 82 game regular season plus an elevated marathon of the playoffs? Can improve defensively so Tortorella can put him on the ice more?
What is this "north American" hockey crap? Oh, so NCAA and junior leagues are better leagues than the SEL because they're in NA? Zuccarello led the league in scoring. That's a MENS LEAGUE. Much stronger, and smarter players than you'll find in the NCAA or ohl. That's undisputable.

His 40 games means nothing? So if he had scored 40 points in those 40, that'd mean nothing also, according to you, because he's still small and doesn't skate like barb underhill.

Look. It was his first year in a smaller rink. It was his first half season in the NHL. He did pretty damn good with the limited ice time he got with third line players in a very limited role.

Just wait. Just wait til he gets a fair shot in a top-6 role. He's going to produce offensively. He's got more grit than we've seen so far in his breif rangers career. He's a gamer. You'll be singing a vastly different tune in a few months. Mark my words.

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08-14-2011, 12:24 PM
  #200
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I'd give Zucc a shot with Stepan and Feds to start the season. I think that he will come back a much better player in camp.

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