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Old
07-24-2011, 10:57 AM
  #101
Xoggz22
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Very solid faceoff-man -- he'll give you a >50% effort on average.

As for PKing, he's able to do it adequately because of his anticipation and intelligence on the ice, but his mobility issues keep him from being a regular PKer.
Thanks. Given the flexibility at center for the CBJ this year it will be nice to have another solid player if the first one gets tossed at the dot. I would like to see us even more aggressive with our faceoffs and having a "second C" on each line could be a huge benefit.

Smart players tend to be decent PK guys but I agree the mobility factor has to play in as well. That's one aree I'm a little concerned about....the CBJ PK may only be average at best looking at our current/potential personnel.

Thanks again.

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07-24-2011, 11:24 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Smart players tend to be decent PK guys but I agree the mobility factor has to play in as well. That's one aree I'm a little concerned about....the CBJ PK may only be average at best looking at our current/potential personnel.

Thanks again.
Not so sure I agree with you there.

Looking at the forwards...

We lose Clark and Moreau but still have Pahlsson 2:50, Umberger 1:58, MacKenzie 1:40, Dorsett 1:33, Vermette 1:26. Stat is SH TOI/Gm last year. Nash is also a pretty fair penalty killer when his TOI doesn't have to be limited, which I expect will be the case, with the increase in offensive potential.

On the D side...

Hejda is gone but Methot and Martinek should be solid. That leaves Clitsome, Tyutin, and Wiz to step up and take the other two.

The D pairings are probably average but the the forward PK'ers I think put us above mid point. There was a time last year when the PK was pretty solid, but just wore out. We can also consider that that the increase (projected) in offensive capability (possession) should take some pressure off the D end and result in fewer PK's. That would be the plan anyway.

For your consideration.

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07-24-2011, 01:34 PM
  #103
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Ok, the Prospal signing pushed me over the edge. I finally broke down and did it. I bought a quarter season package in section 202. This team is making me believe again.

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07-24-2011, 02:12 PM
  #104
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Flyer fan here. First off, I don't like that Huselius is using my nickname, but beyond that I think Carter will play with RJ. They had great chemistry in Philly and I remember an interview with Carter back when RJ was there that RJ was his best friend. I do not think a Nash/Carte combo isn't workable like some others do. Carter is not a playmaker by any means, but he creates his chances and gets a ton of goals in the crease. I think a popular misconception is he gets all of his goals because of his incredible shot. I think you will find he is great at finding the pucks and jamming it in and his hand eye is as good as Anybody else in the league, if he is near it, he will touch it. If Nash is crashing the net, he will get a lot of goals, and and open up chances for Carter to get a lot of garbage as well.

Anyway, good luck this year. One of my buddies used to play for you guys so I followed you a bit, now I am gonna be lurking around again with all of these ex flyers.

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07-24-2011, 04:41 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Iron Balls McGinty View Post
Ok, the Prospal signing pushed me over the edge. I finally broke down and did it. I bought a quarter season package in section 202. This team is making me believe again.

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Old
07-24-2011, 04:49 PM
  #106
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Hopefully we're done with the experiment of Howson thinking he's some genius talent evaluator. He's finally realized you need NHL talent to compete in the NHL....too bad it took him 4 years to realize it, but better late then never.

Still a little nervous about our D and expecting Methot to be an anchor, but hopefully a good defense is a good offense in this case

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07-24-2011, 05:03 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
He's finally realized you need NHL talent to compete in the NHL....

Still a little nervous about our D ...
Agreed X 10. I am really hoping he finds 1 more NHL skilled dman before October. It's a long season, injuries happen. I don't want to rely on a 2 way filling in for a NHL 1 through 4 dman.

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07-24-2011, 06:23 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
Hopefully we're done with the experiment of Howson thinking he's some genius talent evaluator. He's finally realized you need NHL talent to compete in the NHL....too bad it took him 4 years to realize it, but better late then never.


We made the playoffs with that "genius talent evaluator" phase, in case you don't remember. What failed us was Commodore completely falling apart and Howson giving him the benefit of the doubt for a second year. Or are Tyutin, Huselius, Vermette, and Umberger somehow "not NHL talent"?

Seriously, I'm starting to get really pissed off about all these evaluations based on little more than name recognition.

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Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
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07-24-2011, 06:56 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post


We made the playoffs with that "genius talent evaluator" phase, in case you don't remember. What failed us was Commodore completely falling apart and Howson giving him the benefit of the doubt for a second year. Or are Tyutin, Huselius, Vermette, and Umberger somehow "not NHL talent"?

Seriously, I'm starting to get really pissed off about all these evaluations based on little more than name recognition.

Yes, it was all Commodores fault. In case you dont remember, we finished 27th and 24th in the league after that one playoff year in which we didnt even win a game.

And obviously, its not based on name recognition, but results. Although you did come up with 4 names, add Nash and you had 5

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07-24-2011, 07:30 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post

Yes, it was all Commodores fault. In case you dont remember, we finished 27th and 24th in the league after that one playoff year in which we didnt even win a game.

And obviously, its not based on name recognition, but results. Although you did come up with 4 names, add Nash and you had 5
Would you prefer I list the entire roster? Should I have also included guys developed, like Brassard, Methot, and Voracek? How about other guys who showed up at the end of last year, like Calvert and Clitsome? Or perhaps I should also have included guys we already had, such as Nash and Klesla. And I really ought to have included Hejda and Garon to begin with; alas, I forgot about some guys who've since moved on.

Lacking depth is one thing. Claiming that we "didn't have NHL talent" is absolute garbage. We didn't have enough to stay competitive after injuries and/or flakeouts - particularly on the blueline - and that's what cost us. We gave second chances where they were undeserved (Commodore, Filatov).

I imagine next year folks will be royally pissed off when we don't go out and pick up the flavor of the month then as well.

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Old
07-24-2011, 07:40 PM
  #111
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The Scott Howson argument is due for a separate thread ... not a Vinny Prospal thread.

Maybe you should take it over to the "Fire Scott Howson" thread ... or has everyone given up on that since his offseason moves?

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07-24-2011, 08:27 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by GoChiefsGo View Post
The Scott Howson argument is due for a separate thread ... not a Vinny Prospal thread.

Maybe you should take it over to the "Fire Scott Howson" thread ... or has everyone given up on that since his offseason moves?
Agreed, Im actually praising him for finally waking up and acting like an NHL GM

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07-24-2011, 09:06 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
Still a little nervous about our D and expecting Methot to be an anchor, but hopefully a good defense is a good offense in this case
At this point last year Methot was on his way out for a bag of pucks if we could get it. He stepped up and was our best defense man for extended periods. Now he has another year under his belt, a better understanding of what is expected of him, and a solid WC performance under his belt. While it might be a bit much to expect a huge advancement, no reason to think he won't continue to improve.

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Old
07-24-2011, 09:09 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
Agreed, Im actually praising him for finally waking up and acting like an NHL GM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_with_faint_praise

I am not in the least bit interested in watching the fair-weather-only crowd spread revisionist bull****. If (G-d forbid) Jeff Carter doesn't work out here as hoped, I'm sure that'll all somehow be Howson's fault also, and that he'll be to blame for having picked up "the wrong guys" even though now we're shopping name brand instead of generic. Because G-d forbid your torches-and-pitchforks analysis turns out to somehow be wrong.

I say hell no. **** that. We are ENDING THIS **** RIGHT NOW. You people have gotten EVERYTHING YOU WANTED - the last GM fired, most of the front office replaced, the entire coaching staff replaced, the scouting office leaders replaced, every last player on the roster save Rick Nash replaced, and a bunch of name-brand guys added - and you're STILL, STILL wasting time coming up with these ******** snide-ass side comments.

The whole point of this whole "hockey fan" thing is to be entertained, not to complain on and on an on about every little thing you can find, even if the only thing you can find is prior records that no longer matter.

Seriously. Cut this **** out. Now.

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07-24-2011, 09:18 PM
  #115
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Go Viqsi! Agree 100%.

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Old
07-24-2011, 09:32 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_with_faint_praise

I am not in the least bit interested in watching the fair-weather-only crowd spread revisionist bull****. If (G-d forbid) Jeff Carter doesn't work out here as hoped, I'm sure that'll all somehow be Howson's fault also, and that he'll be to blame for having picked up "the wrong guys" even though now we're shopping name brand instead of generic. Because G-d forbid your torches-and-pitchforks analysis turns out to somehow be wrong.

I say hell no. **** that. We are ENDING THIS **** RIGHT NOW. You people have gotten EVERYTHING YOU WANTED - the last GM fired, most of the front office replaced, the entire coaching staff replaced, the scouting office leaders replaced, every last player on the roster save Rick Nash replaced, and a bunch of name-brand guys added - and you're STILL, STILL wasting time coming up with these ******** snide-ass side comments.

The whole point of this whole "hockey fan" thing is to be entertained, not to complain on and on an on about every little thing you can find, even if the only thing you can find is prior records that no longer matter.

Seriously. Cut this **** out. Now.

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Old
07-24-2011, 10:34 PM
  #117
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Old
07-24-2011, 10:53 PM
  #118
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I am convinced that the survival of the franchise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_with_faint_praise

I am not in the least bit interested in watching the fair-weather-only crowd spread revisionist bull****. If (G-d forbid) Jeff Carter doesn't work out here as hoped, I'm sure that'll all somehow be Howson's fault also, and that he'll be to blame for having picked up "the wrong guys" even though now we're shopping name brand instead of generic. Because G-d forbid your torches-and-pitchforks analysis turns out to somehow be wrong.

I say hell no. **** that. We are ENDING THIS **** RIGHT NOW. You people have gotten EVERYTHING YOU WANTED - the last GM fired, most of the front office replaced, the entire coaching staff replaced, the scouting office leaders replaced, every last player on the roster save Rick Nash replaced, and a bunch of name-brand guys added - and you're STILL, STILL wasting time coming up with these ******** snide-ass side comments.

The whole point of this whole "hockey fan" thing is to be entertained, not to complain on and on an on about every little thing you can find, even if the only thing you can find is prior records that no longer matter.

Seriously. Cut this **** out. Now.
really depends on these moves working out. There are too many Hockey fans particularly north of the border that find themselves invigorated that the Thrashers are now the Winnepeg Jets. Buy the tickets fill the stands, attend the games and scream your bloody lungs out. Or hardcore, fairweather or just casual fan you will end up like my cousin in Hamilton Ontario that loved the Nordiques and whom spent most of young canadian life rooting for the Nordiques and his favorite player Joe Sakic only to have them ripped out Quebec sold and moved to Colorado where they promptly became winners.

Get behind your team people or we will lose them to Ballsile or other nameless Canadian executive. This outcome will suck balls.

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Old
07-24-2011, 11:02 PM
  #119
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If you can'r get behind this team after this offseason, then when? October? December? March? Maybe not ever.

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Old
07-25-2011, 12:00 AM
  #120
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I'll preface by saying that I'm always behind the team. If I make a snide comment, it'll be for humor/entertainment and not an actual reflection of my attitude towards the team.

That said, REAL NHL GM'S BUILD A FRANCHISE THROUGH THE DRAFT. Going out and selecting players via free agency and trade is extremely expensive and is sure to not get you every piece you need.

That's not to mean building through the draft is a sure thing. It isn't. It's up to the GM to make it as sure of a thing as possible by picking #1-3 for a few years in a row. After that, you have to develop players successfully. However I won't consider the Jackets a "contender" until they're able to draft/develop top defensemen and forwards.

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07-25-2011, 12:31 AM
  #121
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...so real NHL GMs tank to get high picks. Good to know.

Given that development is a process that takes several years, I recommend withholding judgment on that for the time being. Especially since we've gotten two top-6 forwards (possibly three) and a top-4 defenseman (possibly two) out of the system so far already.

Seriously - from Howson's first ever draft, we've gotten one top-6 player who might become top-3 someday (Voracek), one high-profile neurotic future bust who we ditched ASAP (Legein), one likely to make the team next year after a few years in the AHL (Mayorov) and everyone else is either still in school (Weber, Hansen, Vogelhuber) or just turned pro last year (Ruth (on a retroactive technicality ), York). And of all those guys we still have, the only ones who are looking seriously doubtful are Hansen and Vogelhuber. Aside from Legein's historic and unexpected bout with pizza delivery psychosis, not bad so far.

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07-25-2011, 01:01 AM
  #122
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For what it's worth, and even though I spoke about moving the debate, I've been pro-Howson from day 1 ... which is why I'm unsure of the status of the "Fire Howson" thread, as I ignored it a long time ago.

Personally, the only complaint I have with Scott Howson is that it took the organization too long to hire him. He had to start almost from scratch, IMO ... as Doug MacLean's mis-management had this team so far down the crapper it was almost like an expansion team again.

We gave Doug seven years to pull this team together, and after three and a half years, Scott was being pitchforked and prodded by most of the people on this board. That's after he's brought in players most of you absolutely love (Umberger, to name one) ... how many Umberger or Vermette type players did we EVER have under Doug's regime?

That's the end of my rant, and all of my two cents. I now re-iterate my motion to get back on topic

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07-25-2011, 05:52 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
That said, REAL NHL GM'S BUILD A FRANCHISE THROUGH THE DRAFT.
True.
Quote:
Going out and selecting players via free agency and trade is extremely expensive and is sure to not get you every piece you need.
True.

Quote:
That's not to mean building through the draft is a sure thing. It isn't.
True.

Quote:
It's up to the GM to make it as sure of a thing as possible...
True.

Quote:
...by picking #1-3 for a few years in a row.
[sound of brakes being applied, suddenly and liberally.] Uhhh...

Quote:
After that, you have to develop players successfully. However I won't consider the Jackets a "contender" until they're able to draft/develop top defensemen and forwards.
It is possible to do this without resigning yourself to non-playoff, bottom of the standings, out-of-it-by-Christmas seasons.
Exhibit A: I hate them to the core of my Union-Blue blood pumping heart, but... "Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the D.R.W."

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Old
07-25-2011, 06:00 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_with_faint_praise

I am not in the least bit interested in watching the fair-weather-only crowd spread revisionist bull****. If (G-d forbid) Jeff Carter doesn't work out here as hoped, I'm sure that'll all somehow be Howson's fault also, and that he'll be to blame for having picked up "the wrong guys" even though now we're shopping name brand instead of generic. Because G-d forbid your torches-and-pitchforks analysis turns out to somehow be wrong.

I say hell no. **** that. We are ENDING THIS **** RIGHT NOW. You people have gotten EVERYTHING YOU WANTED - the last GM fired, most of the front office replaced, the entire coaching staff replaced, the scouting office leaders replaced, every last player on the roster save Rick Nash replaced, and a bunch of name-brand guys added - and you're STILL, STILL wasting time coming up with these ******** snide-ass side comments.

The whole point of this whole "hockey fan" thing is to be entertained, not to complain on and on an on about every little thing you can find, even if the only thing you can find is prior records that no longer matter.

Seriously. Cut this **** out. Now.

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Old
07-25-2011, 06:17 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_with_faint_praise

I am not in the least bit interested in watching the fair-weather-only crowd spread revisionist bull****. If (G-d forbid) Jeff Carter doesn't work out here as hoped, I'm sure that'll all somehow be Howson's fault also, and that he'll be to blame for having picked up "the wrong guys" even though now we're shopping name brand instead of generic. Because G-d forbid your torches-and-pitchforks analysis turns out to somehow be wrong.

I say hell no. **** that. We are ENDING THIS **** RIGHT NOW. You people have gotten EVERYTHING YOU WANTED - the last GM fired, most of the front office replaced, the entire coaching staff replaced, the scouting office leaders replaced, every last player on the roster save Rick Nash replaced, and a bunch of name-brand guys added - and you're STILL, STILL wasting time coming up with these ******** snide-ass side comments.

The whole point of this whole "hockey fan" thing is to be entertained, not to complain on and on an on about every little thing you can find, even if the only thing you can find is prior records that no longer matter.

Seriously. Cut this **** out. Now.
Oh V, you should know better than this....


We'll give credit where credit is due. Howson has had a pretty good offseason, I don't think anyone on this board would disagree with that.

The long and short of it is this: Some of us are no longer fans just to be entertained, we want to see a winner. Winning requires sacrifice, hard work, determination and a single-minded drive towards your goals.... I've been watching this team since opening night in October of 2000, I stopped caring about the overall arena experience, the so-called "rivalries" and the how good this game looks in HD, just give me wins. Its time to pull up the "Big Boy" pants and make this happen, the future of the this organization in the Columbus market may depend on it.

I see a good offseason that could potentially help us come close to that 8th spot in next season and perhaps even make it in and win a playoff game.... Lets hope this is the beginning of something good revolving around winning....

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