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Philadelphia - St. Louis

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07-23-2011, 03:44 PM
  #1
rlaw88
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Philadelphia - St. Louis

I discussed this in another thread with a Philadelphia fan, and he seemed to be on board. However, I'm not sure that fans of both sides will like this deal, so I'm eager to get more input::

To Philadelphia:
Evgeny Grachev
Ian Cole

To St. Louis:
Braydon Coburn

St. Louis gets a partner for Pie; Philadelphia replenishes their cupboard w/ a LWer w/ Top 6 potential and a d-man who has top 4 potential.

Is this agreeable? Do you think either side needs to add?

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07-23-2011, 03:51 PM
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EastonBlues22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaw88 View Post
I discussed this in another thread with a Philadelphia fan, and he seemed to be on board. However, I'm not sure that fans of both sides will like this deal, so I'm eager to get more input::

To Philadelphia:
Evgeny Grachev
Ian Cole

To St. Louis:
Braydon Coburn

St. Louis gets a partner for Pie; Philadelphia replenishes their cupboard w/ a LWer w/ Top 6 potential and a d-man who has top 4 potential.

Is this agreeable? Do you think either side needs to add?
From PHI: Clearly makes them a worse team now, and they're very much in a "win now" situation.

From STL: Too much to give up for 1 year of Coburn. I think Cole can easily be the better all-around player in three or so years. Not sure if the finances would work either with the Blues current internal budget. Cole fits in better with their organizational timeline and current financial situation...at least until the ownership issue is resolved.

Both sides say "No", IMO.

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07-23-2011, 03:51 PM
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JojoTheWhale
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I feel like that's pretty solid value for Coburn, but it just doesn't make any sense to move him for futures.

Carle is probably gone after this year and Timonen's likely to retire, as well as Pronger getting up there in years. I would think Coburn and Meszaros really aren't going to be moved for futures at this point, but hey, I never, ever thought Carter and Richards would be moved on the same day, so I've sure as hell been wrong before.

I also suspect most Blues fans would think that's too much to give up for Coburn.

You're trying to give good value on both sides, which is really refreshing. I just don't think the philosophy works for either team.

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07-23-2011, 03:51 PM
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I'd think Philly would want one high-end piece instead of two good ones.

Also, Philly is looking to keep their young quality defense, not take away from it.

Doesn't seem too bad value-wise though.

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07-23-2011, 03:52 PM
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SeanVT395
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It certainly isn't terrible value wise but it doesn't really address the needs of the Flyers . Their top 5 d are pretty much set in stone for the moment and although they definitely want to get good young D with Pronger and Timonen getting up there, taking away a young dman thats part of their core seems kind of counter-productive. Grachev doesn't really add much in the 'now' category either.

I think StLouis would do it if Coburn was signed on a longer contract though.

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07-23-2011, 03:54 PM
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o Hamhuis 2 x
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I would rather have a winger for now and Cole for Coburn and 2 prospects (contract limit) and then we can sign Hannan or McCabe. It could work for both sides

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07-23-2011, 04:03 PM
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Oshie97
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If Coburn had a longer contract I would be more interested. The possibility of Coburn asking for too much on his next contract or walking is a big risk when giving up Cole who looks like he will be a very solid d-man in a couple yrs and is on his ELC still. Good value but not something I see both teams wanting to do.

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07-23-2011, 04:08 PM
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o Hamhuis 2 x
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Coburn, Bobrovsky, Kalinski, and Marshall
For
Stewart, Bishop, and Nikitin

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07-23-2011, 04:24 PM
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Stealth JD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o Hamhuis 2 x View Post
Coburn, Bobrovsky, Kalinski, and Marshall
For
Stewart, Bishop, and Nikitin


NO!

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07-23-2011, 04:32 PM
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o Hamhuis 2 x
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NO!
Ok switch Nikitin with Beukeboom. Coburn slightly< Stewart
Bobrovsky>slightly Bishop
Kalinski and Marshall = Beukeboom

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07-23-2011, 04:35 PM
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Jray42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o Hamhuis 2 x View Post
Ok switch Nikitin with Beukeboom. Coburn slightly< Stewart
Bobrovsky>slightly Bishop
Kalinski and Marshall = Beukeboom
I think you're wrong on the value of Chris Stewart

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07-23-2011, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o Hamhuis 2 x View Post
Coburn slightly< Stewart
Strongly disagree.

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07-23-2011, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o Hamhuis 2 x View Post
Coburn slightly< Stewart

As others have said, your valuation is off.

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07-23-2011, 04:39 PM
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o Hamhuis 2 x
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Ok since I'm going to continue to get destroyed over the value of Chris Stewart, who is a winger that is slightly higher value than Coburn?

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07-23-2011, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o Hamhuis 2 x View Post
Ok since I'm going to continue to get destroyed over the value of Chris Stewart, who is a winger that is slightly higher value than Coburn?
Talent-wise, there's a few that fit that description on the Blues. The problem is that all of them are younger than Coburn, (IMO) have a higher ceiling than him, are currently more than a million dollars cheaper, and are RFAs at the end of their current deals. I don't see Blues fans (or the Blues for that matter) being inclined to include any of those players for one year of Coburn.

If that's what you're looking for in return, it's probably best to let it go.

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07-23-2011, 04:52 PM
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o Hamhuis 2 x
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You'll probably kill me for mentioning this, but what about Oshie and Bishop for Coburn, Bobrovsky, Marshall, and Testwuide? Testwuide IMO is going to have a very good NHL career and he's continuing to improve in the minors and Marshall is going to be maybe a 3-4 defenseman when he makes it to the NHL.

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07-23-2011, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o Hamhuis 2 x View Post
You'll probably kill me for mentioning this, but what about Oshie and Bishop for Coburn, Bobrovsky, Marshall, and Testwuide? Testwuide IMO is going to have a very good NHL career and he's continuing to improve in the minors and Marshall is going to be maybe a 3-4 defenseman when he makes it to the NHL.
Blues take on about 2 million in salary, which kills the deal outright. A backup goaltender that makes almost 2 million just isn't in the budget, upgrade or not.

Personally, I wouldn't do it from a talent perspective either. The Blues are giving up (again, IMO) the best current player in the deal, with the highest ceiling and best contract. Not even close to worth it.

Also, FWIW, the Blues farm has a ton of depth. A number of their prospects project to fill the NHL roles that Marshall and Testwuide would...no need to trade for more. Unless you start throwing out Couturier's name, there's really nothing in the PHI system that STL doesn't already have a rough equivalent to.

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07-23-2011, 05:17 PM
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BrindamoursNose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o Hamhuis 2 x View Post
You'll probably kill me for mentioning this, but what about Oshie and Bishop for Coburn, Bobrovsky, Marshall, and Testwuide? Testwuide IMO is going to have a very good NHL career and he's continuing to improve in the minors and Marshall is going to be maybe a 3-4 defenseman when he makes it to the NHL.
Yeah, I'd say no to it if I were a Blues fan.

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07-23-2011, 05:39 PM
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rlaw88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o Hamhuis 2 x View Post
You'll probably kill me for mentioning this, but what about Oshie and Bishop for Coburn, Bobrovsky, Marshall, and Testwuide? Testwuide IMO is going to have a very good NHL career and he's continuing to improve in the minors and Marshall is going to be maybe a 3-4 defenseman when he makes it to the NHL.
With an extended Coburn, I might look at that deal. To me, Oshie is the most expendable of the Blues top 9, though the Blues could likely get a better return if they shopped him. Though the Blues might have gotten a better return if they'd shopped Erik Johnson (we'll never know).

A Coburn/Bobrovsky for Oshie/Bishop switch seems semi fair (w/ the extension of course). It'd just be really hard to give up Oshie for one year of Coburn. If Coburn walks after that year, then we're screwed. Would the Flyers be interested in moving Coburn/Hartnell for Oshie/Bishop? I know the Flyers need to retain size, so that might be perceived as lateral in Philadelphia. If you want to throw in Bobrovsky, we could throw in Colaiacovo.

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07-23-2011, 06:20 PM
  #20
o Hamhuis 2 x
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaw88 View Post
With an extended Coburn, I might look at that deal. To me, Oshie is the most expendable of the Blues top 9, though the Blues could likely get a better return if they shopped him. Though the Blues might have gotten a better return if they'd shopped Erik Johnson (we'll never know).

A Coburn/Bobrovsky for Oshie/Bishop switch seems semi fair (w/ the extension of course). It'd just be really hard to give up Oshie for one year of Coburn. If Coburn walks after that year, then we're screwed. Would the Flyers be interested in moving Coburn/Hartnell for Oshie/Bishop? I know the Flyers need to retain size, so that might be perceived as lateral in Philadelphia. If you want to throw in Bobrovsky, we could throw in Colaiacovo.
Maybe. We get some cap space in return and a replacement dman for Coburn, a replacement winger for Hartnell, and replacement backup for Bryzgalov. We might be giving up too much but there are some decent veteran free agents out there too. If we throw in Testwuide or another prospect, do you think we could get a better dman though? I like Colaiacovo but I'm not sure he's worth Bob.

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07-23-2011, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaw88 View Post
With an extended Coburn, I might look at that deal. To me, Oshie is the most expendable of the Blues top 9, though the Blues could likely get a better return if they shopped him. Though the Blues might have gotten a better return if they'd shopped Erik Johnson (we'll never know).

A Coburn/Bobrovsky for Oshie/Bishop switch seems semi fair (w/ the extension of course). It'd just be really hard to give up Oshie for one year of Coburn. If Coburn walks after that year, then we're screwed. Would the Flyers be interested in moving Coburn/Hartnell for Oshie/Bishop? I know the Flyers need to retain size, so that might be perceived as lateral in Philadelphia. If you want to throw in Bobrovsky, we could throw in Colaiacovo.
Or the trade could just be Coburn and Hartnell for Oshie and Cole or another dman/ defense prospect since Bob wouldn't be included in the deal and we don't need another goalie then.

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07-23-2011, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaw88 View Post
I discussed this in another thread with a Philadelphia fan, and he seemed to be on board. However, I'm not sure that fans of both sides will like this deal, so I'm eager to get more input::

To Philadelphia:
Evgeny Grachev
Ian Cole

To St. Louis:
Braydon Coburn

St. Louis gets a partner for Pie; Philadelphia replenishes their cupboard w/ a LWer w/ Top 6 potential and a d-man who has top 4 potential.

Is this agreeable? Do you think either side needs to add?
I think Carle can be had over Coburn. Coburn will be resigned next year, I don't believe Carle will after some STUPID payouts this off season.

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07-23-2011, 06:26 PM
  #23
rlaw88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o Hamhuis 2 x View Post
Maybe. We get some cap space in return and a replacement dman for Coburn, a replacement winger for Hartnell, and replacement backup for Bryzgalov. We might be giving up too much but there are some decent veteran free agents out there too. If we throw in Testwuide or another prospect, do you think we could get a better dman though? I like Colaiacovo but I'm not sure he's worth Bob.
I'd think any one of Jackman, Colaiacovo, Nikitin could be had. The front office seems fairly content with (and has gone out of their way to retain) the right side of the defense--Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, and Polak. IMO, Petro is untouchable. I'm uncertain of the others--they could he had, but the price would be different, i'm sure.

For instance, if we were shipping out Oshie and Shattenkirk, I'm sure it wouldn't be for less than van Riemsdyk--who I'm pretty sure Philly wouldn't want to part with, yes?

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07-23-2011, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaw88 View Post
I'd think any one of Jackman, Colaiacovo, Nikitin could be had. The front office seems fairly content with (and has gone out of their way to retain) the right side of the defense--Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, and Polak. IMO, Petro is untouchable. I'm uncertain of the others--they could he had, but the price would be different, i'm sure.

For instance, if we were shipping out Oshie and Shattenkirk, I'm sure it wouldn't be for less than van Riemsdyk--who I'm pretty sure Philly wouldn't want to part with, yes?
You're correct about JvR, but I like Hartnell, Coburn, and Bob for Jackman, Oshie, and Bishop. Unless you want a prospect too, I kinda like that deal

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07-23-2011, 06:32 PM
  #25
rlaw88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o Hamhuis 2 x View Post
You're correct about JvR, but I like Hartnell, Coburn, and Bob for Jackman, Oshie, and Bishop. Unless you want a prospect too, I kinda like that deal
I could be persuaded...haha. Jackman would have to waive his NTC, but other than that, I'd do it.

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