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Simple Poll: Who do you like more?

View Poll Results: Which player do you like better?
Jordan Eberle 72 43.64%
Taylor Hall 93 56.36%
Voters: 165. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-26-2011, 03:28 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
Not out of the question if Eberle continues to play with the likes of Hall (and maybe RNH).
One is of course not like the others.

Of the 3 Eberle is the streaky hot/cold player(much more like Gagner) that would be most likely to find himself not on par with those two.

I see Eberle very much as a second unit type forward and very much where I see Gagner.

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07-26-2011, 03:41 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
One is of course not like the others.

Of the 3 Eberle is the streaky hot/cold player(much more like Gagner) that would be most likely to find himself not on par with those two.

I see Eberle very much as a second unit type forward and very much where I see Gagner.
Eberle finished the season with nearly identical GP, G-A-PTS, and S% to Hall.

Eberle's 2010-11 game log (in terms of "streakiness") looks very similar to Gagner's. I'm eyeballing that, so admittedly no rigorous statistical analysis done.

I remain unconvinced of your position.

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07-26-2011, 03:43 PM
  #53
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Except that this is a strange statement. Gagner had a dominant year and a dominant camp and pretty much made the team keep him up. It wasn't pedigree as much as actual performance.



Absolutely Gagner will end up with more career pts. Gagner could spend his entire career hovering over .5 ppg and finish with more career pts than Eberle. Unless one thinks somehow that Eberle is a PPG player and again wheres the indication of that?

People seem to not understand the math. Eberle would need to average anywhere between 10-15 more pts than Gagner/yr the rest of the way to end up with more career pts assuming both continue to play for fairly long careers.

That you dispute this to a great degree is pretty telling in terms of how much overvaluation and undervaluation is going on in terms of production. We don't know that Eberle is a significantly more productive offensive player than Gagner.
I acknowledged that Gagner was further ahead at the same age and therefore had a better chance to crack the roster because of it.

The one thing that might give Gagner the edge career pointswise is that Eberle got a later start to his NHL career so Gagner will always have 3 full seasons on him if we hypothetically assume that they retire at the same age.

However, you have to keep in mind that Eberle will most likely be playing with much better (and perhaps elite eventually) offensive players while Gagner will most likely never get that opportunity (unless some team tries him at #1C) so if you combine the quality of linemates along with the fact that Eberle has superior tools - stronger on the puck, faster, better goal scorer, equally as good vision and perhaps even superior overall hockey sense, the odds are stacked against Gagner outscoring Eberle over the course of their careers.

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07-26-2011, 03:48 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
Eberle finished the season with nearly identical GP, G-A-PTS, and S% to Hall.

Eberle's 2010-11 game log (in terms of "streakiness") looks very similar to Gagner's. I'm eyeballing that, so admittedly no rigorous statistical analysis done.

I remain unconvinced of your position.
heh, again that is my position.

Not to get into the netherworld of "looks like statistics" but I wouldn't count on Eberle staying close to Hall's shooting %. Hall seems to get himself in scoring positions on a much more regular basis.

Also Hall being the much younger of the two had a predictably slower start. Once Hall got scoring that was some gravy. Conversely what stands out a bit is Eberle went 15games without a goal ending in December.


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07-26-2011, 03:59 PM
  #55
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heh, again that is my position.

Not to get into the netherworld of "looks like statistics" but I wouldn't count on Eberle staying close to Hall's shooting %. Hall seems to get himself in scoring positions on a much more regular basis.

Also Hall being the much younger of the two had a predictably slower start. Once Hall got scoring that was some gravy. Conversely what stands out a bit is Eberle went 15games without a goal ending in December.
I only mentioned the logs to show how neither looked all that terribly streaky to my eye. I guess it's all in the definition of the word.

The lack of goals you mention is mitigated by the fact he was still churning out assists.

I'd say right now there's just not enough information to make a reliable statement about if Eberle should be expected to outscore Gagner in his career. We'll probably have a much better idea by the end of his ELC.

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07-26-2011, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I acknowledged that Gagner was further ahead at the same age and therefore had a better chance to crack the roster because of it.

The one thing that might give Gagner the edge career pointswise is that Eberle got a later start to his NHL career so Gagner will always have 3 full seasons on him if we hypothetically assume that they retire at the same age.

However, you have to keep in mind that Eberle will most likely be playing with much better (and perhaps elite eventually) offensive players while Gagner will most likely never get that opportunity (unless some team tries him at #1C) so if you combine the quality of linemates along with the fact that Eberle has superior tools - stronger on the puck, faster, better goal scorer, equally as good vision and perhaps even superior overall hockey sense, the odds are stacked against Gagner outscoring Eberle over the course of their careers.
Again I don't see Eberle as an elite player. I'm not sure that would even be an opinion expressed outside of Oiler fans. Eberle would be the inconsistent link on an elite line. Especially one that potentially features two number 1 picks. I'd far rather a vet be the glue on a line like that at any point forward.

Eberle's hockey smarts are also overstated. His GA wasn't good either.

Again Gagner doesn't need to outscore Eberle for me to be right. Gagner just needs to hang around. Which he will somewhere. He's a lot more resilient than given credit for.

Not mentioned yet but of the two I see Eberle more likely to be effected by potential sophomore problems. Of the two I see Eberle actually getting more likely to get into a little funk after the initial thrill of NHL hockey wears off. For instance Eberle played like a man possessed in October, but had a fall to Earth in goal scoring by November. Wasn't just that he was hamstrung. He just wasn't threatening much.

Its easier then one thinks to come to the rink everyday, every year, on a very bad club, and come with a consistently optimal attitude. We don't know yet that Eberle even is that guy.

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07-26-2011, 04:08 PM
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I only mentioned the logs to show how neither looked all that terribly streaky to my eye. I guess it's all in the definition of the word.

The lack of goals you mention is mitigated by the fact he was still churning out assists.

I'd say right now there's just not enough information to make a reliable statement about if Eberle should be expected to outscore Gagner in his career. We'll probably have a much better idea by the end of his ELC.
About the only certainty is that polls here are never "simple" or even on topic.

Hall is much betterer than either. There.

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07-26-2011, 05:03 PM
  #58
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