With the draft behind us, I would like to see how some of our more informed posters (Montreal, Whitesnake and others) rank our prospects. I took a quick look at the HF rankings and disagreed with a lot of them... and that was before the draft. I would have to think that there should be some serious changes made to that list.
I highly doubt anyone on here has seem all of our new prospects play, so I don't think anyone can really make an informed list at this point.
Do you really have to see them all with your own eyes for a list to be "informed"? Almost impossible to see all of them, but I, personally, have seen a tonne of Beaulieu and Archambault, a lot of Nygren, some of Dietz (always focused and looking for more on Siemens), enough of Pribyl (I was all over the Czech and Slovak leagues this year... for all the good it did me in the end), but almost none of Didier and certainly none of Sullivan. I've now read quite a bit about all of them on top of that though, and I think anyone else who has done the same can be considered "informed".
The only two guys I don't feel comfortable commenting on are the USHS/USHL guys, because like I have said elsewhere, unless they're the absolute cream of the crop in those leagues, I don't even bother trying to figure out where they rank against the best prospects coming out of better leagues, because they almost never surpass any of them anyway.
Suffice to say, I don't think Beaulieu is indisputably the best prospect out of this year's draft class. I'd have Nygren waaay closer to him than the draft ranking would suggest, followed by Pribyl and Dietz, then Archambault/Didier, then Sullivan.
Do you really have to see them all with your own eyes for a list to be "informed"?
I would think so yes, In my personal opinion anyways. I don't think anyone can really make an informed and accurate list without having seen the players play. Sure, there are the obvious ones such as Beaulieu or Kristo being better prospects presently than Sullivan and Johnson. But let's use two of our newest prospects for an example here. Can anyone truthfully say who the better prospect is between Didier and Deitz without having seen them play? Other than draft position, if you haven't personally seen them play, you don't really have much to go on, other than reading a few random online scouting reports.
I'm not trying to single you out at all, because I know you watch many prospect games throughout the year so this is NOT directed towards you, but it's the same pretty much every year. People like to play "scout" and don't mention these guys at all throughout the year, yet after they're drafted by us, they're instant experts on the prospects and have apparently watched them many times. I just think it's funny how that works.
All I'm saying, is that since it's only 1 day after the draft, and having not actually seen Didier, Nygren, Pribyl, Dietz, or Sullivan play yet, I don't feel I can accurately add them to a list of our prospects, and judge who they are better than, until I actually watch some of their games this year, watch some videos from the dev camps, and study these prospects in-depth. I just don't feel there are too many posters here who can honestly say they really know that much about these prospects.
I know it's a message board and all, but I can't be the only one who laughs when it's only a few days after the draft, and posters are already adding our 5th and 6th round selections to our prospect rankings when it's very likely that they have never once actually seen them play. It happens every year.
I would think so yes, In my personal opinion anyways. I don't think anyone can really make an informed and accurate list without having seen the players play. Sure, there are the obvious ones such as Beaulieu or Kristo being better prospects presently than Sullivan and Johnson. But let's use two of our newest prospects for an example here. Can anyone truthfully say who the better prospect is between Didier and Deitz without having seen them play? Other than draft position, if you haven't personally seen them play, you don't really have much to go on, other than reading a few random online scouting reports.
I'm not trying to single you out at all, because I know you watch many prospect games throughout the year so this is NOT directed towards you, but it's the same pretty much every year. People like to play "scout" and don't mention these guys at all throughout the year, yet after they're drafted by us, they're instant experts on the prospects and have apparently watched them many times. I just think it's funny how that works.
All I'm saying, is that since it's only 1 day after the draft, and having not actually seen Didier, Nygren, Pribyl, Dietz, or Sullivan play yet, I don't feel I can accurately add them to a list of our prospects, and judge who they are better than, until I actually watch some of their games this year, watch some videos from the dev camps, and study these prospects in-depth. I just don't feel there are too many posters here who can honestly say they really know that much about these prospects.
I know it's a message board and all, but I can't be the only one who laughs when it's only a few days after the draft, and posters are already adding our 5th and 6th round selections to our prospect rankings when it's very likely that they have never once actually seen them play. It happens every year.
I guess I'm coming more from the standpoint that GMs have probably seen very little of any of the players they pick, and yet they make those picks and we all consider those choices to be "informed" somehow. So I guess my point is that you can be sufficiently "informed" without having seen many of these guys if you have enough people watching these guys whose judgement you trust. Granted, the best eyes are probably on professional payrolls, and thus aren't exactly available for honest opinions most of the time, but that doesn't automatically mean that everyone else out there is second rate by definition.
A few of my actual scout friends/connections were saying weeks ago that Grimaldi wouldn't be as pursued as most others were expecting. I received a bit of grief for passing on a prediction that Grimaldi wouldn't go in the 1st round. "Top X talent", etc is all that you'd hear. Didn't even have to watch him play on that one (although obviously I HAVE seen plenty of him), as those guys seem to be way more connected than myself or most around here. Doesn't even have to be "proper" scouts though, as many local writers end up getting a good feel for players as well, once you dig past the writing style designed to move papers.
It's simply amazing the information you can collect without being there in person these days. It's just a matter, then, of filtering it in a way that leaves you with more perspective and less hype. As an example, I use highlight reels more to see what players were doing without the puck, or where/how defenses broke down than marveling at the actual scoring play or focusing on just the offense, whereas you see most people begin and end their highlight reel "analysis" with something like "sick goal"...
I'd personally put Nygren above everyone from Diaz through Nash, with Avtsin getting the only asterisk as "hard to tell". Don't know if I'd put Yemelin above Leblanc, and I'm not sure Tinordi has enough upside to be considered #1. Heck, I'm not even convinced that Beaulieu is a "better talent" than Leblanc or Kristo, if I'm honest. Then again, I think he had it fairly easy feeding pucks up to everyone in that Sea Dogs forward group, and I think Despres is a full tier above him talent-wise, if not in terms of basic fundamentals.
1. Beaulieu - Right now he is the only dman with top 2 potential. To many he was a top 10 talent. None of our other prospects can make that claim when they were drafted.
2. Emelien - His lack of offensive ability means he'll be more of a top 4 dman. He is ahead of Tinordi at this point because he is NHL ready.
3. Tinordi - His OHL season doesn't lead me to believe that he'll be more than a top 4 dman.
4. LeBlanc - I think he has proven that he isn't going to be a high end offensive forward. Sounds like Chris Higgins to me. Not bad thing.
5. Avtsyn - Same age as LeBlanc but already playing in the AHL. He didn't have a great season but he still has top 6 potential. I'm predicting he moves past LeBlanc this year.
6. Palushjai - NHL ready but at best he'll be a 3rd liner.
7. Bournival - Basically put up the same numbers in the Q as LeBlanc but is a year younger. Another prospect with 3rd line potential.
8. Kristo - He doesn't give me a good vibe. He took a step back this year. Not a good sign for a guy three years after he has been drafted. He has speed so that may get him to the NHL but again I don't see a top 6 talent.
9. Nash - He's moved ahead of Carle. Sounds like a bottom pair dman.
10. Engqvist - Already had his cup of coffee in the NHL. A 4th line centre at some point.
1. Beaulieu - Right now he is the only dman with top 2 potential. To many he was a top 10 talent. None of our other prospects can make that claim when they were drafted.
2. Emelien - His lack of offensive ability means he'll be more of a top 4 dman. He is ahead of Tinordi at this point because he is NHL ready.
3. Tinordi - His OHL season doesn't lead me to believe that he'll be more than a top 4 dman.
4. LeBlanc - I think he has proven that he isn't going to be a high end offensive forward. Sounds like Chris Higgins to me. Not bad thing.
5. Avtsyn - Same age as LeBlanc but already playing in the AHL. He didn't have a great season but he still has top 6 potential. I'm predicting he moves past LeBlanc this year.
6. Palushjai - NHL ready but at best he'll be a 3rd liner.
7. Bournival - Basically put up the same numbers in the Q as LeBlanc but is a year younger. Another prospect with 3rd line potential.
8. Kristo - He doesn't give me a good vibe. He took a step back this year. Not a good sign for a guy three years after he has been drafted. He has speed so that may get him to the NHL but again I don't see a top 6 talent.
9. Nash - He's moved ahead of Carle. Sounds like a bottom pair dman.
10. Engqvist - Already had his cup of coffee in the NHL. A 4th line centre at some point.
1. Beaulieu - Right now he is the only dman with top 2 potential. To many he was a top 10 talent. None of our other prospects can make that claim when they were drafted.
2. Emelien - His lack of offensive ability means he'll be more of a top 4 dman. He is ahead of Tinordi at this point because he is NHL ready.
3. Tinordi - His OHL season doesn't lead me to believe that he'll be more than a top 4 dman.
4. LeBlanc - I think he has proven that he isn't going to be a high end offensive forward. Sounds like Chris Higgins to me. Not bad thing.
5. Avtsyn - Same age as LeBlanc but already playing in the AHL. He didn't have a great season but he still has top 6 potential. I'm predicting he moves past LeBlanc this year.
6. Palushjai - NHL ready but at best he'll be a 3rd liner.
7. Bournival - Basically put up the same numbers in the Q as LeBlanc but is a year younger. Another prospect with 3rd line potential.
8. Kristo - He doesn't give me a good vibe. He took a step back this year. Not a good sign for a guy three years after he has been drafted. He has speed so that may get him to the NHL but again I don't see a top 6 talent.
9. Nash - He's moved ahead of Carle. Sounds like a bottom pair dman.
10. Engqvist - Already had his cup of coffee in the NHL. A 4th line centre at some point.
Biggest misconception... who cares if he scores points or not, that's not what he is there for.
IMHO the current habs prospect pool has not been as weak since the Houle era.
You might be right. However, we have also not had young impact players like Price and Subban in a long time. Subban is still on his entry level contract, so would still be on this list if he hadn't rocketed through the system.
You might be right. However, we have also not had young impact players like Price and Subban in a long time. Subban is still on his entry level contract, so would still be on this list if he hadn't rocketed through the system.
I like that you ranked Bournival higher than Leblanc.
1. Beaulieu - Right now he is the only dman with top 2 potential. To many he was a top 10 talent. None of our other prospects can make that claim when they were drafted.
2. Emelien - His lack of offensive ability means he'll be more of a top 4 dman. He is ahead of Tinordi at this point because he is NHL ready.
3. Tinordi - His OHL season doesn't lead me to believe that he'll be more than a top 4 dman.
4. LeBlanc - I think he has proven that he isn't going to be a high end offensive forward. Sounds like Chris Higgins to me. Not bad thing.
5. Avtsyn - Same age as LeBlanc but already playing in the AHL. He didn't have a great season but he still has top 6 potential. I'm predicting he moves past LeBlanc this year.
6. Palushjai - NHL ready but at best he'll be a 3rd liner.
7. Bournival - Basically put up the same numbers in the Q as LeBlanc but is a year younger. Another prospect with 3rd line potential.
8. Kristo - He doesn't give me a good vibe. He took a step back this year. Not a good sign for a guy three years after he has been drafted. He has speed so that may get him to the NHL but again I don't see a top 6 talent.
9. Nash - He's moved ahead of Carle. Sounds like a bottom pair dman.
10. Engqvist - Already had his cup of coffee in the NHL. A 4th line centre at some point.
Tinordi has all the tools to be an elite shut down d-man in the Chara-Weber-Regehr mold...size, mobility, hockey sense plus a nasty edge...that makes him a candidate to be a #2 or 3 guy.
