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07-26-2011, 03:46 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by zamboni88 View Post
It's not what he did - it's what he didn't do. He did not lead this team. He was a favorite of John Stevens and did not earn the C.
You must have slept through the historic comeback and underdog run to the Finals he led the team through.

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07-26-2011, 03:54 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
You must have slept through the historic comeback and underdog run to the Finals he led the team through.
I was at game 4 vs Boston (Gagne OT winner) Games 3 and 4 vs Chicago I don't recall Mike Richards doing much other than watching Danny Briere, Chris Pronger, and Claude Giroux carry the team. Correct me if I am wrong - of course he did score an amazing empty net goal vs Montreal.

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07-26-2011, 03:56 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by zamboni88 View Post
I was at game 4 vs Boston (Gagne OT winner) Games 3 and 4 vs Chicago I don't recall Mike Richards doing much other than watching Danny Briere, Chris Pronger, and Claude Giroux carry the team. Correct me if I am wrong - of course he did score an amazing empty net goal vs Montreal.
Ah, so when the team wins, he gets zero credit as captain. But when they lose, it's all his fault? How unbiased :

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07-26-2011, 03:57 PM
  #279
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You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're incredibly biased against Richards.

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07-26-2011, 04:05 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by zamboni88 View Post
I was at game 4 vs Boston (Gagne OT winner) Games 3 and 4 vs Chicago I don't recall Mike Richards doing much other than watching Danny Briere, Chris Pronger, and Claude Giroux carry the team. Correct me if I am wrong - of course he did score an amazing empty net goal vs Montreal.
Insert psycho music here.

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07-26-2011, 04:09 PM
  #281
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I'm not really sure how you can say Richards did nothing in the Montreal series. He pretty much owned them, and had one of the best shifts of hockey i've ever seen anyone play.

Now if your argument was for the final then you may have something.

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07-26-2011, 04:12 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'd be pretty disgruntled about my boss telling me what to do in my free time, especially if it isn't affecting my job.

I wouldn't say that it was affecting how either Carter or Richards did their job. Richards' wrist injury sure as hell did though.

This is exactly the kind of team policy/initiative that is ONLY going to cause a split in the locker room or between players and coach, and it strikes me as being very ill advised.
Beef I am disgusted by this too and wish it did not come out. But who is to say that if certain players were not drinking they could have played better. I can say from past experience. I used to drink just about every day and always prided myself on never missing work because of it. However I know for a fact that I did not give my best effort being hung over. Plus they are pros and it sounds like there had to be some hell raising going on and when you are getting paid in the hundreds of thousands a year or better if your boss tells you to cool it then you had better take heed. There is nothing wrong having a few beers after work but this sounds like it went to the extreme. Anyway like I have stated before I just wish this story never surfaced.

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07-26-2011, 04:13 PM
  #283
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At the end of the day, this is how I look at it:

Yeah, it sucks our boys' personal business is out there. It's worse that our Flyers locker room has issues the media can pluck at, to begin with. Do I hate the guy who published this article? Absolutely not, this is his job. Just like Mike Richards is paid to play hockey. Just look past it, and move along. The bandwagon fans will carry these sort of things to their graves, us true fans will just let it rot away like it should. I'm not hurt by it. Our boys should only be more motivated to be more together from this point out. Or they can fall apart, if they're weak. Either way, I'm not that displeased.

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07-26-2011, 04:15 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
Beef I am disgusted by this too and wish it did not come out. But who is to say that if certain players were not drinking they could have played better. I can say from past experience. I used to drink just about every day and always prided myself on never missing work because of it. However I know for a fact that I did not give my best effort being hung over. Plus they are pros and it sounds like there had to be some hell raising going on and when you are getting paid in the hundreds of thousands a year or better if your boss tells you to cool it then you had better take heed. There is nothing wrong having a few beers after work but this sounds like it went to the extreme. Anyway like I have stated before I just wish this story never surfaced.
I mean, who's to say they weren't drinking all that much (ha, they probably were when Lavi came in...but afterwards?) and Lavi is just draconian?

We're still missing a lot of pieces of the puzzle. All I know is that if Carter and Richards could play like they did while hungover, I need to get my hands on whatever they were drinking. Maybe send a few cases to the team before the playoffs, too.

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07-26-2011, 04:23 PM
  #285
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Vokoun sucks.. really
Vokun is better than Bryzgalov. Vokoun has highest save percentage since the lockout.

Vokoun .922
Thomas .921
Luongo .918

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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Right, I guarantee Flyers' brass is sending him a "thank you" card and a bottle of his favorite bourbon in return for downplaying it.

The guy is essentially helping the team out by downplaying this, and he has no reason to...yet you still trash him.
I'm not sure how lying is downplaying it. Laviolette said it was to help them down the stretch last season as they were attempting to make the playoffs. That surely isn't a joke. I'm not trying to vilify Richards, but he did a poor job at downplaying it.

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07-26-2011, 04:28 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I mean, who's to say they weren't drinking all that much (ha, they probably were when Lavi came in...but afterwards?) and Lavi is just draconian?

We're still missing a lot of pieces of the puzzle. All I know is that if Carter and Richards could play like they did while hungover, I need to get my hands on whatever they were drinking. Maybe send a few cases to the team before the playoffs, too.
That just strikes me as a kind of wishful thinking.

Something serious was going on, you don't trade the two guys you've built your franchise around unless you think something is drastically wrong. You don't repeatedly implement month long abstention pledges unless something is drastically wrong.

Really, what makes the most sense here? To me the only thing that fits is that the rumors we've heard for many years now were true, and that some of our guys were living it up just a little too much. Given how inconsistent the team could be and how many month long slumps they'd have, it doesn't seem bizarre to me to suggest that excessive partying may have been an issue.

In the end, it doesn't matter to me. Dry Island was a dumb idea. It makes very little sense to trade Richards right now, unless he was a complete alcoholic or was literally smoking crack. I still think he could mature into the leader we all thought he would be. Where would Detroit have been if they had indeed traded Yzerman before he matured into his role as team captain?

I wouldn't be surprised to see LA win a cup.

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07-26-2011, 04:28 PM
  #287
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Vokun is better than Bryzgalov. Vokoun has highest save percentage since the lockout.

Vokoun .922
Thomas .921
Luongo .918


I'm not sure how lying is downplaying it. Laviolette said it was to help them down the stretch last season as they were attempting to make the playoffs. That surely isn't a joke. I'm not trying to vilify Richards, but he did a poor job at downplaying it.
Richards could have thrown Lavi under the bus and say he insisted on pushing a policy that deepened locker room division if he had wanted to.


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Originally Posted by mja View Post
That just strikes me as a kind of wishful thinking.

Something serious was going on, you don't trade the two guys you've built your franchise around unless you think something is drastically wrong. You don't repeatedly implement month long abstention pledges unless something is drastically wrong.

Really, what makes the most sense here? To me the only thing that fits is that the rumors we've heard for many years now were true, and that some of our guys were living it up just a little too much. Given how inconsistent the team could be and how many month long slumps they'd have, it doesn't seem bizarre to me to suggest that excessive partying may have been an issue.

In the end, it doesn't matter to me. Dry Island was a dumb idea. It makes very little sense to trade Richards right now, unless he was a complete alcoholic or was literally smoking crack. I still think he could mature into the leader we all thought he would be. Where would Detroit have been if they had indeed traded Yzerman before he matured into his role as team captain?

I wouldn't be surprised to see LA win a cup.
Yeah, I'm definitely downplaying it. I highly doubt that Stevens had any control over the group. I struggle to believe that they remained out of control through a Finals run and while they were dominating they first half of the season, though. Other players have come out and said the partying thing is completely overblown. I don't know how a guy with a drinking/drug problem can manage to play 197 games in 2 years, more than anybody else in the league and at least 93 of those games while needing surgery.

It's quite possible that it was just a bad policy/overreaction by Lavi. As I've already explained earlier in this thread, I think the Dry Island policy was a horrible idea.

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07-26-2011, 04:34 PM
  #288
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I was at Game 4 vs. Boston in 2010 also, and I don't think Mike Richards did much either. Can someone tell me what happened on this play:


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07-26-2011, 04:35 PM
  #289
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now we have some adversity to overcome this season

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07-26-2011, 04:58 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Richards could have thrown Lavi under the bus and say he insisted on pushing a policy that deepened locker room division if he had wanted to.
True, but I think he could have downplayed it without saying it was a joke when Holmgren and Lavi confirmed it existed.

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07-26-2011, 04:59 PM
  #291
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I'm not sure how lying is downplaying it. Laviolette said it was to help them down the stretch last season as they were attempting to make the playoffs. That surely isn't a joke. I'm not trying to vilify Richards, but he did a poor job at downplaying it.
Let's not sugarcoat this either..obviously it is also in Richards' best interest to diffuse it. There is self-preservation involved with respect to his reputation. A bit naive to suggest he is solely being altruistic towards the Flyers by trying to "downplay" it....

Another example of it being best to kill it by silence. Lavy's interview yesterday also actually did more harm than good IMO since he pleaded the 5th and tap danced around it. Better to confuse through ambiguity if they want to contain all of this...

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07-26-2011, 05:01 PM
  #292
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True, but I think he could have downplayed it without saying it was a joke when Holmgren and Lavi confirmed it existed.
I'm of the opinion that it trivializes it, instead of portraying it as a major and potentially ongoing issue.

I'm also of the opinion that if any of the new young guys are seen out having fun and the team isn't performing in a stellar fashion, that the Philly media will pounce like vultures (or whatever it is that vultures do)

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07-26-2011, 05:01 PM
  #293
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True, but I think he could have downplayed it without saying it was a joke when Holmgren and Lavi confirmed it existed.
Exactly....again Holmgren and Lavi are not the only ones who should just keep their mouths shut...

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07-26-2011, 05:11 PM
  #294
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FWIW... I know many have issues with Eklund, but whatever way you go on him I believe you'll find this blog interesting on the Dry Island matter:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...-story/1/37277
It is why I said yesterday it is important to know who had visual access to this board. It isn't just media, players and coaches who frequent a dressing room. There are other members of team personnel and if Eklund is accurate in this reporting, "former team employee" could be anyone from a front office member to a staffer along the lines of equipment or training. In situations like these, it isn't always the most obvious person; it is someone self-absorbed looking for attention when otherwise he/she wouldn't get it.

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07-26-2011, 05:22 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm of the opinion that it trivializes it, instead of portraying it as a major and potentially ongoing issue.

I'm also of the opinion that if any of the new young guys are seen out having fun and the team isn't performing in a stellar fashion, that the Philly media will pounce like vultures (or whatever it is that vultures do)
I disagree with that. I think people are just going to see it as a self serving statement as Dr Doom points out. The fact that two former players apparently brought up this issue makes it seem like a big deal.

Probably, but I don't think that is anything unique to the Philly media, however. I think whenever there is an underachieving team people naturally wonder if maybe there is a little too much focus on their free time and a little less on the job. I do think the media and fans make too much out of it since many athletes (and young people in general) like to have a good time. It just seems like in this case there might have been a bigger issue than we all realize. It's hard to make sense of these trades without thinking something was going on. Though I think whatever may or may not have happened, the Flyers organization deserves their share of the blame for this era of Flyers hockey failing.

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07-26-2011, 05:47 PM
  #296
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Ah, so when the team wins, he gets zero credit as captain. But when they lose, it's all his fault? How unbiased :
Really! Haters are going to hate. By the way Mike did a great interview on TSN. Stand up guy. Of course most of us already knew that.

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07-26-2011, 05:57 PM
  #297
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I disagree with that. I think people are just going to see it as a self serving statement as Dr Doom points out. The fact that two former players apparently brought up this issue makes it seem like a big deal.

Probably, but I don't think that is anything unique to the Philly media, however. I think whenever there is an underachieving team people naturally wonder if maybe there is a little too much focus on their free time and a little less on the job. I do think the media and fans make too much out of it since many athletes (and young people in general) like to have a good time. It just seems like in this case there might have been a bigger issue than we all realize. It's hard to make sense of these trades without thinking something was going on. Though I think whatever may or may not have happened, the Flyers organization deserves their share of the blame for this era of Flyers hockey failing.
Exactly what point are you trying to make here? Is it we did not win the cup? Every organization makes mistakes and we have made ours. But at least they try. Or are you talking about the extracurricular activities? To me what makes this a big deal is that some gossip columnist snoops around and digs up some story and puts it out weeks after it was irrelevant. I just hope that this guy gets black balled by the players and they shut him out.

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07-26-2011, 06:01 PM
  #298
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Really! Haters are going to hate. By the way Mike did a great interview on TSN. Stand up guy. Of course most of us already knew that.
I agree 100% with ritchie about what all is said in the locker room should stay in the locker room.....This whole " drinking/partying" thing is totally out of control,,,,,,,,Nothing but petty Gossip !

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07-26-2011, 06:06 PM
  #299
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Exactly what point are you trying to make here? Is it we did not win the cup? Every organization makes mistakes and we have made ours. But at least they try. Or are you talking about the extracurricular activities? To me what makes this a big deal is that some gossip columnist snoops around and digs up some story and puts it out weeks after it was irrelevant. I just hope that this guy gets black balled by the players and they shut him out.
What I mean is that it is very unusual for a team to have to trade two young faces of their franchise at the same time. If there really were locker room issues then I think Holmgren deserves blame for not getting things under control to make it work with these two valuable young players. Personally I feel there has been far too much turnover on this roster. This team lacked a stable core of veteran leadership for the most part. Compared to a team like Detroit which has a stable core to provide leadership for the younger players coming up through the system. I also think it was a mistake to have Stevens coach this team because he lacked leadership and authority.

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07-26-2011, 06:17 PM
  #300
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What I mean is that it is very unusual for a team to have to trade two young faces of their franchise at the same time. If there really were locker room issues then I think Holmgren deserves blame for not getting things under control to make it work with these two valuable young players. Personally I feel there has been far too much turnover on this roster. This team lacked a stable core of veteran leadership for the most part. Compared to a team like Detroit which has a stable core to provide leadership for the younger players coming up through the system. I also think it was a mistake to have Stevens coach this team because he lacked leadership and authority.
Um...

What exactly did Holmgren not do?

Did he not trade away other possible negative influences that may have promoted Richards' and Carter's off-ice life?

Did he not bring in veteran leaders that would be a strong positive influence in the locker room on Richards and Carter?

Did he not fully commit to them enough by the way of long-term, substantial contracts to keep them at the forefront of Philadelphia hockey for over a decade?

Did he not have multiple sit-downs and private discussions with the two in an attempt to set them back on the right track?

Did he not even prompt a coaching change to spark something out of a team that they were supposed to be the young leaders of?


Come on now...pinning this on Holmgren for a supposed "lack of action" is pathetic.

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