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MLD 2011 Draft Thread II

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Old
07-31-2011, 03:15 PM
  #301
Iain Fyffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
not too shabby! A legitimate two-position player if I ever saw one, and a passable MLD RW for short periods, too.

Aaron Broten played enough center to count as a multi-positional guy, too.
Yeah, I listed those guys where they'll likely play on my team. Edit: although now that I'm thinking about it, he might just play RW after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Who's Hugh Currie?
An O6-era minor-league defenceman. Bios will come for all of these guys when I have some time.


Last edited by Iain Fyffe: 07-31-2011 at 03:21 PM.
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Old
07-31-2011, 03:17 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I wish the people who updated the front post took more care with listing a player's proper position, since this happens every draft, usually multiple times. (It's happened at least twice this draft).

For the record, on Eden Hall, Drozdetsky is listed as a W, but should be RW. And Ulf Dahlen is listed as LW, but should be W.
It's no big deal to me now, just means I got to wait another round or 2 to finish my top 6 on defense. I think I can get the guy I like at defense with Pick 23.

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Old
07-31-2011, 03:18 PM
  #303
Iain Fyffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
Did he really played LW a lot? To me Cammalleri is a RW , he might have played a couple of game here and there but not enough to justify calling him a LW.
Huh? I'm a Habs fan as well and although Cammie is known for the goals he scored from the RH slot in the 2010 playoffs, he plays LW regularly.

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07-31-2011, 03:18 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Edit: But of course, who else you have on the team also affects it. If you have someone "almost as good" in one area but not the other, then the coach would adjust minutes according to need.
I think this is a big factor.

If your team is designed to, and you have the other horses to save Scott Stevens for ES and PK only.. you can.

He'll look even better than he would on a weaker team when looking at ES minutes only, but on this particular team, Neidermayer who is used all around has more overall icetime.

And based on Stevens earlier career I am sure he could have played more PP time.

In short I think the defenseman icetime thing is a bit of a rule of thumb but the real answer is - "it depends"

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07-31-2011, 03:19 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post

An O6-era minor-league defenceman. Bios will come for all of these guys when I have some time.
I hope you include information as to why he never made it to the NHL.

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Old
07-31-2011, 03:22 PM
  #306
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anyway about the Malakhov situation , he is my 6th D anyway and I will use him on the PP , which is fine with me.

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07-31-2011, 03:25 PM
  #307
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
I think this is a big factor.

If your team is designed to, and you have the other horses to save Scott Stevens for ES and PK only.. you can.

He'll look even better than he would on a weaker team when looking at ES minutes only, but on this particular team, Neidermayer who is used all around has more overall icetime.

And based on Stevens earlier career I am sure he could have played more PP time.

In short I think the defenseman icetime thing is a bit of a rule of thumb but the real answer is - "it depends"
True, and not all ES minutes are the same. Stevens and Niedermayer probably played similar ES minutes, but Stevens played all the toughest matchups.

The actually tried to use Colin White, who has no offensive instincts, on the second PP unit for awhile, so that Stevens would be fresh for all the key defensive situations, despite the fact that Stevens was clearly a better PP option in a vacuum.

So in a way 70s is right, but then, for a defensive guy like Stevens, PK clearly took priority over ES.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
anyway about the Malakhov situation , he is my 6th D anyway and I will use him on the PP , which is fine with me.
That's a good use for him. He was extremely effective as a #5 for the NJ Cup winner in 2000. Doesn't have to worry about tough matchups and can just do his thing.


Last edited by seventieslord: 08-01-2011 at 11:42 AM.
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Old
07-31-2011, 03:33 PM
  #308
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With pick #287, the Pittsburgh Hornets select Rocket Power, D.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey's Greatest Legends
Power played six years in the first decade of the 1900s. He joined the Quebec Bulldogs in 1903 as a defenseman. Power played on and off with Quebec until 1908. After his first pro season with Waterloo in the OPHL, Power rejoined Quebec switching mid season to the 1911-12 Canadiens. 1913 saw him back with Quebec when they won the Stanley Cup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord
In 42 top-level games, Power had 8 goals, 6 assists, 14 points and 82 PIM. Along the way, Power also played in the Alberta Senior League and Maritime Pro League. In the 1910 OPHL season, Power's 7 points were 2nd among defensemen and he was named a league all-star.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Trolley League
The difference seemed to be on defence where Billy Baird and Rocket Power of Waterloo formed an impenetrable wall to the Brantford forwards

...The Waterloo defence tandem of Baird and Power stood up the Brantford forwards for the second straight game as the Colts beat the Braves 6-3 for their third consecutive win

...The Berlin forwards, particularly Dumart and Frood had a tough time getting by the Waterloo defence pair of Billy Baird and Rocket Power

...Rocket Power and Billy Baird played another strong game for Waterloo completely shutting down Brantford‟s offence.

...coverpoint Rocket Power scored on an end to end rush.

...John Cross is a testament to the difference that strong defensive play makes to a goalkeeper‟s statistics. In the first five games of the 1910 season Cross allowed an average of 8.46 goals against per game, but after the Colts signed Rocket Power and Billy Baird his average dropped to 4.67 goals against per game, second only to Hugh Lehman; the following season without the benefit of playing behind Power and Baird his goals against average ballooned back up to 8.23 on a weak Brantford team.

...Hockey‟s original “Rocket”, Rocket Power was one of three hockey playing Power brothers along with Joe and “Chubby”. As his nickname might suggest, Power was one of the fastest skaters in the league, and he was also recognized for his clean play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Toronto World Nov 16, 1915
Rocket Power of the Quebec Hockey Club is at the front and had enlisted immediately after the declaration of war. He is one of the best pro hockey players the City of Quebec has ever formed.

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Old
07-31-2011, 03:37 PM
  #309
Iain Fyffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I hope you include information as to why he never made it to the NHL.
"You can't judge O6-era minor-leaguers using today's standards" not enough for ya, eh?

He played mostly in the independent WHL, a league which some say was a strong impetus for the NHL's Great Expansion in 1967, amidst worries said league might challenge the NHL as a major league.

This also applied to Fred Hucul, one of my previous picks. More info on these players to come.

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Old
07-31-2011, 03:48 PM
  #310
Selfish Man
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stupid ctrl+f fail... trying again.

With pick #288, the Pittsburgh Hornets select Gilles Gilbert, G.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
He played in the NHL between 1969 and 1983 and retired with a 3.27 GAA. In the 1973-74, he was traded to the Bruins as a replacement for Gerry Cheevers who had gone to the WHA, and helped the team to the Stanley Cup finals that year. From 1976 to 1980, he teamed with Gerry Cheevers to form one of the best goaltending duos in the NHL, being runner-ups for the Vezina Trophy in 1980. Gilbert holds the NHL record for most consecutive wins by a goaltender with 17 which was accomplished during the 1975–76 NHL season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boston.com
Gilles Gilbert played seven seasons with the Bruins (1972-80), and shyness was not part of his vocabulary. However, there is no doubting his talent. In fact, for his Bruins career, Gilbert finished with a 2.95 goals-against average.

Gilbert remains as one of the Bruins all-time best goaltenders. He currently sits fifth all-time in wins (155), sixth all-time in games played (277), sixth all-time in minutes played (15,915) and 10th all-time with a 2.95 GAA.

“I’m absolutely proud of my career with the Bruins,” said Gilbert. “You dream when you are a kid to be drafted and play in the NHL and win the Stanley Cup. When I was a little kid I always hoped the Boston Bruins would draft me. The North Stars called and I signed with them, but when I wore the Boston Bruins uniform for the first time it was a dream come true.”

After playing with Boston, Gilbert was traded to the Detroit Red Wings at the start of the 1980-81 season for goalie Reggie Vachon. He played in Detroit for three seasons before retiring. For his career, Gilbert played in 416 games and finished with a 192 wins, 143 losses and 60 ties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loh.net
On May 22, 1973, the young netminder was acquired by the Boston Bruins who were trying to find an adequate replacement for the departed Gerry Cheevers and Eddie Johnston. During his first year in Beantown the young netminder posted a 34-12-8 record, played in the NHL All-Star game and helped the club reach the Stanley Cup finals. He continued to be the Bruins' chief puckstopper until Cheevers returned late in the 1975-76 schedule.

In the late 1970s Gilbert saw a moderate amount of action but his solid play kept Boston from overworking Cheevers. This helped the Bruins reach the finals in 1977 and 1978 and the semi-finals in 1979. Prior to the 1980-81 season, Gilbert was traded to the Detroit Red Wings for veteran Rogie Vachon. He provided steady netminding and veteran leadership on the struggling young club for three years before retiring in 1983.
He and Roloson will split time during the regular season and the club will go with the hot hand for the playoffs.


Last edited by Selfish Man: 07-31-2011 at 04:11 PM. Reason: repick after selecting player already selected
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Old
07-31-2011, 04:16 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Why does Leeman keep getting selected? He's a thoroughly mediocre player who exploded for 50 goals in a season when, if it wasn't for Quebec being so bad defensively, Toronto had a real shot at leading the league in both GF and GA thanks to their run and gun style that even transcended the league at the time. He was bad defensively and that team at that moment in time fit him perfectly and resulted in two good offensive seasons that he never approached again.
I regret that pick now that I look more in depth. I thought he played a lot more defense than he actually did, making his numbers look better than I thought they were. At a quick look from 91 on I thought he was a defenseman because, well, those look like defensemen numbers. I should have checked them. I also saw some decent PPGA totals and assumed he was decent defensively. He was incorrectly listed as a LW in a previous draft. His somewhat grittiness and goal scoring ability fit what I wanted in my 4th line LW. He'll probably be riding the bench now unless we're allowing drops. Are we allowing drops?

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07-31-2011, 04:54 PM
  #312
BenchBrawl
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wait what? you can pick a player and replace him right away? You don't need to wait at the end of the draft?

so basically I can draft someone , immediately notice I made a mistake , drop him and replace him within 5 minutes?

I would have done it multiple times.

I think a GM should have to pay the price for a bad pick and wait at the end of the draft or AT LEAST to his next round but that's just my opinion.

But if it's legal , I might replace someone myself right away so please tell me if I'm entitle to.


Last edited by BenchBrawl: 07-31-2011 at 05:01 PM.
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Old
07-31-2011, 05:03 PM
  #313
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you definitely should have to wait to the end of the draft.

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Old
07-31-2011, 05:12 PM
  #314
BillyShoe1721
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Completed Stephane Yelle bio:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=226

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Old
07-31-2011, 05:26 PM
  #315
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The Sleepwatchers will add some sandpaper with RW, Mark Hunter and D, Brendan Witt.

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Old
07-31-2011, 05:36 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
I regret that pick now that I look more in depth. I thought he played a lot more defense than he actually did, making his numbers look better than I thought they were. At a quick look from 91 on I thought he was a defenseman because, well, those look like defensemen numbers. I should have checked them. I also saw some decent PPGA totals and assumed he was decent defensively. He was incorrectly listed as a LW in a previous draft. His somewhat grittiness and goal scoring ability fit what I wanted in my 4th line LW. He'll probably be riding the bench now unless we're allowing drops. Are we allowing drops?
The reason for his kind of quick drop off a cliff was his shoulder got messed up and he was never able to get back on track.

He reached his peak, got mangled in 1990, and gets described as a fluke now, but he really wasn't. He would have continued being a 30+ something goal guy if he hadn't gotten hurt I'm pretty sure.

He was definitely a right winger at that time, though.

That team was crazy to watch in 89-90.. So much fun. I remember Harry Neale described it as something like "No lead is too big for them to overcome and no lead of their own is ever safe" hahaha

Good times.


Last edited by BraveCanadian: 07-31-2011 at 05:49 PM.
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Old
07-31-2011, 06:04 PM
  #317
DaveG
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I hate doing retreads, but he's just too good a fit for what I want that's left on the board:

Warroad Lakers select RW Wayne Presley



and D/Rover Frank "Coddy" Winters



Last edited by DaveG: 07-31-2011 at 07:14 PM.
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Old
07-31-2011, 10:57 PM
  #318
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Disagree entirely. PP and PK are a small part of the game, but are definitely more important than ES on a "per minute" basis.
They may be. But also, the difference in PP production from one player to the next is not really that big. If you are a defenseman who plays a full season on the first PP unit, there's a certain amount of points you're just going to end up with. We're going off on a tangent here, but PP production should almost be looked at vs. replacement value. Rather than just giving a guy so much extra credit for being on the PP, when he might only have been because he wasn't very good at ES (the most important time of the game)

Quote:
Do you have a link to the studies that show this? I mean, it's not surprising that ES is more important overall since it's most of the game, but I'd imagine it's less important per minute.
No, it's just things I've calculated before by copying and pasting the league standings from hockey-reference and using excel's CORREL function on the points column and various other columns. ES GF/GA ratio was the strongest factor. Anyone who wants to go check it out could do so in a few minutes. I never saved my work.

Quote:
That's the complete opposite of what usually happens, IMO. Isn't the whole argument for someone like Vishnovsky or Yandle not getting the Norris last year that if he he was good enough to be on the PK, the coach would definitely put him there, since that's where a defenseman can make the most difference per minute?
I don't recall that being a component of that argument; just that they didn't kill penalties. Regardless, I would expect an elite, Norris-winning defenseman to do all three. I think you would too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Yeah seventies Macoun example is really the exact opposite specialist to Malakhov. He gives up PP time and gains ES/PK time. Partly due to his individual skills and partly due to his team context (Suter MacInnis on the PP etc.). I think their overall icetime demonstrates somewhat their overall skillsets and overall value in their particular team situation. Separating those two is hard.

The old adage you brought up makes me curious:

Does anyone have the following info?

average goals / min on PP
average goals / min at ES
average goals / min while SH

for teams or leagues?
I don't.

A general benchmark for PP (and therefore PK) time is about 7 minutes per game of each. So if you just look at an "average" season (1994 is often considered an average season) and look at the number of PP goals scored and consider that there were about 14 minutes of special teams time per game you could do the math from there and come up with an average that would be "reasonably" suitable for general use.

as for SH occurrences... determining anything statistically useful from it is generally futile. goalie's sv% against SH shots are generally all over the map because of the randomness of them and the small sample size. I imagine scoring rates are similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
In short I think the defenseman icetime thing is a bit of a rule of thumb but the real answer is - "it depends"
well said.

I think it can depend too. I'm open to addressing it in situations where it warrants it. Guys like Berard and Malakhov, I don't think "it depends" with them

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
That's a good use for him. He was extremely effective as a #5 for the NJ Cup winner in 2000. Doesn't have to worry about tough matchups and can just do his thing.
agree. 3rd pairing puck mover, top PP guy? He's fine. He was top-10 on my list heading into the AAA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
"You can't judge O6-era minor-leaguers using today's standards" not enough for ya, eh?

He played mostly in the independent WHL, a league which some say was a strong impetus for the NHL's Great Expansion in 1967, amidst worries said league might challenge the NHL as a major league.

This also applied to Fred Hucul, one of my previous picks. More info on these players to come.
The AHL was a better league, though, wasn't it? Just from what I've picked up in my past research, it seems that the AHL in any given O6 season had the most NHLers in it on the way up or down, which is a good indication that it was the next step down from the NHL.

In the WHL, Currie was twice a 1st team all-star and once 2nd. That's good, but there were even more dominant defensemen and some who did it in the AHL. I don't think it's necessarily impossible to demonstrate that a dominant minor league defenseman is a viable pick right now... but I think starting with the very best one would be a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
I regret that pick now that I look more in depth. I thought he played a lot more defense than he actually did, making his numbers look better than I thought they were. At a quick look from 91 on I thought he was a defenseman because, well, those look like defensemen numbers. I should have checked them. I also saw some decent PPGA totals and assumed he was decent defensively. He was incorrectly listed as a LW in a previous draft. His somewhat grittiness and goal scoring ability fit what I wanted in my 4th line LW. He'll probably be riding the bench now unless we're allowing drops. Are we allowing drops?
- Yeah, he was drafted as a defenseman, which he played for his first two years in the NHL.

- 15% PK usage isn't terrible... it's actually about 5X what I'd have guessed it was. At even strength he was never considered a good defensive player but maybe he was on the PK thanks to his speed.

- Yes, he did have a gritty side.

- Based on everyone else's replies I won't be able to allow a drop now. (I'd consider it if everyone was unanimously for it, but they have spoken!) By the end though, he won't be an epic fail as a spare because he does have fill-in ability on defense (make him the #8, though) and he has some speed and grit for a 4th line. You could have done a lot better, but you could have done a lot worse, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
That team was crazy to watch in 89-90.. So much fun. I remember Harry Neale described it as something like "No lead is too big for them to overcome and no lead of their own is ever safe" hahaha

Good times.
I'd actually like to see a stat for this. Which team had the highest combined GF/GA total in one season? I'm sure it was someone in the 80s, so it would have to be adjusted by league scoring level. After an adjustment, I wouldn't be surprised if that Leafs team ended up top-5... unless I am underestimating some really good offensive teams that still allowed a lot (80s oilers) or the opposite (some 70s expansion teams)


Last edited by seventieslord: 08-01-2011 at 11:42 AM.
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Old
07-31-2011, 11:05 PM
  #319
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We'll take two early era players: Oren Frood and Fred Higginbotham.

Frood put up amazing offensive numbers in the OPHL, and was also something of a power forward. He might be a spare, but he might be more - we'll see what people think....

Higginbotham was mainly noted for steady defensive play and being a big-time hitter, but he was also known as a good puck-carrier. He was a member of the Winnipeg Victorias that won the Stanley Cup in 1896. Again, he may be a spare, but might be a starter as well.

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07-31-2011, 11:07 PM
  #320
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With the first of two picks, Awesome Express selects Jose Theodore, G

Second selection to come in a bit

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07-31-2011, 11:32 PM
  #321
seventieslord
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OMG, finding this alone made it worth drafting Josef Golonka!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Coleman in the Calgary Herald, March 24, 1969
I am not offering an alibi for the Canadians. I'm just suggesting that, in the future, the Canadians should emulate Joe Golonka in his courteous treatment of all referees.

Golonka is the busiest, noisiest and most colorful participant in this hockey tournament. He captained the Czechoslovakian team. He is a heckuva fine hockey player and he's the best unpaid assistant referee in the history of hockey.

Realizing that the referees are overworked, Golonka aids them in the performance of their arduous duties. He raises his stick in the air and shouts when a referee misses and offside.

He takes the referees aside and explains the rules to them. He talks, talks, talks every second that he is on the ice. The bemused referees regard him as very helpful. When a referee misses a palpable foul, Golonka obligingly emits a shrill whistle and points at the offender.

Joe Golonka is the greatest European entertainer since the younger days of Maurice Chevalier. He is all ham – but, he has hockey talents which match his histrionics.

Joe Golonka was a bit tired on Sunday night. He still hadn't recovered from his busy "assistant officiating" in last Friday's Czech victory over the Russians.

Nevertheless, he perked up quickly when he noticed the television cameras, which were sending the game back to Canada. On two occasions Sunday night, Golonka skated right in front of a rail seat camera before he took two of the corniest dives ever recorded on live television.

Once after Canadian defenseman had put him into the boards, Golonka deliberately stuck his agonized face right into the camera lens, permitted his eyes to revolve in their sockets and slowly he collapsed backwards, like a man who had been stabbed through the heart.

I'll never forget Golonka's performance when he scored the Czechs' winning goal against the Russians in the 1968 Olympics: he rolled on the ice in front of the Russian bench, laughing at his opponents. Then on his knees, he used his hockey stick is a bow and pretended to be playing a violin as he sang the Volga Boatman to the unamused Russians.

His is a great comic talent. He would be worth $1 million to one of those expansion teams in the NHL. The young Canadians made me proud of them on Sunday night, but I realized that the contracts won't win any medals at Stockholm. Accordingly, I hope that the Czechs win the gold.

Joe Golonka is 31 and this is his last world tournament. He is a performer who deserves an entire wing to himself in hockey's Hall of Fame.


Last edited by seventieslord: 08-01-2011 at 09:35 AM.
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Old
07-31-2011, 11:33 PM
  #322
Iain Fyffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selfish Man View Post
With pick #287, the Pittsburgh Hornets select Rocket Power, D.
That should be Rockett Power. Many people assume it must have been a nickname, but his name was actually James Rockett Power. Rockett was his mother's maiden name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
The AHL was a better league, though, wasn't it? Just from what I've picked up in my past research, it seems that the AHL in any given O6 season had the most NHLers in it on the way up or down, which is a good indication that it was the next step down from the NHL.
This does not necessarily follow, since AHL teams had NHL affiliations while WHL did not (generally speaking), so of course players in the NHL pipeline will more likely go through the AHL.

That being said, the AHL may have been the higher quality league; that's okay, since Currie also played in the AHL and set the league records for assists by a defencemen (since broken) in 1951 while playing in only 57 of 70 games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
He reached his peak, got mangled in 1990, and gets described as a fluke now, but he really wasn't. He would have continued being a 30+ something goal guy if he hadn't gotten hurt I'm pretty sure.
It's easy to blame the injury, but in 1990/91 before he got hurt he had 5 goals and 10 points in 19 games. He scored at a higher rate that year after the injury than he did before it.


Last edited by seventieslord: 08-01-2011 at 11:43 AM.
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07-31-2011, 11:57 PM
  #323
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
This does not necessarily follow, since AHL teams had NHL affiliations while WHL did not (generally speaking), so of course players in the NHL pipeline will more likely go through the AHL.

That being said, the AHL may have been the higher quality league; that's okay, since Currie also played in the AHL and set the league records for assists by a defencemen (since broken) in 1951 while playing in only 57 of 70 games.
So he was 26 years old, set a record for assists in the AHL, and still didn't get a shot in the NHL? Why not? The obvious assumption is that he wasn't NHL-calibre in his own zone, but I'm open to another explanation.

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08-01-2011, 12:00 AM
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08-01-2011, 12:40 AM
  #325
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Selected use of boldface makes me laugh. I love it when the quote is:

Quote:
Golonka didn't play very well in the 1969 World Championships (his last tournament); his meniscus injury was still bothering him. The team didn't win a medal, even though they beat the Soviets 2-0 and 4-3. Still, those two victories in such difficult times for his country warmed Golonka's heart more than a Gold medal would have.
But the bolded words are "they beat the Soviets 2-0 and 4-3."

I'm glad you didn't just edit out the context like some GMs probably would have.

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