HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

MLD 2011 Draft Thread II

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-01-2011, 12:48 AM
  #326
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,225
vCash: 500
Hey, I'm just happy you're reading my bios.

I don't take out the context, as a rule. (besides, he had a good reason for not playing well, didn't he?) i could have tried to make Turgeon look like a God, but.... he is what he is.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 05:27 AM
  #327
Reds4Life
Registered User
 
Reds4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Czech Republic
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,545
vCash: 500
Red Wings select Danis Zaripov, LW and Sergei Zinovjev, C to complete the fourth line -> Zaripov - Zinovjev - Morozov

Reds4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 07:40 AM
  #328
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
It's easy to blame the injury, but in 1990/91 before he got hurt he had 5 goals and 10 points in 19 games. He scored at a higher rate that year after the injury than he did before it.
And I know what you stats guys would tell me about that sample size if I was the one who had brought it up.

Furthermore the team went back to being a joke:

89-90 Toronto 80GP 38W 38L 4T 337GF 358GA
90-91 Toronto 80GP 23W 46L 11T 241GF 318GA

The whole team did quite a bit worse offensively and Leeman's normal center (don't know if he has been drafted yet) was also traded that year, a certain defenseman was traded, the second line right winger had suffered a separated shoulder in 89-90 and was similarly never the same afterwards.

I'll just stick by being quite confident he could have continued being a 30 goal guy if not for the injury.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I'd actually like to see a stat for this. Which team had the highest combined GF/GA total in one season? I'm sure it was someone in the 80s, so it would have to be adjusted by league scoring level. After an adjustment, I wouldn't be surprised if that Leafs team ended up top-5... unless I am underestimating some really good offensive teams that still allowed a lot (80s oilers) or the opposite (some 70s expansion teams)
They would have to be up there. It was a nail-biting team to watch but a lot of fun with all the talented young guys they had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
This is a good point. I've seen it said that if your defenseman is the best option, you play him on the PK first, then PP, then ES last, since that's the order of where a defenseman can make the most difference per minute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
The old adage you brought up makes me curious:

Does anyone have the following info?

average goals / min on PP
average goals / min at ES
average goals / min while SH

for teams or leagues?
Looking at the 2011 season:

The average team scored 62 PP goals in 351 attempts. If we assume that the average team has around 7 minutes of PP time / game as seventies said, that means that the goals per minute of PP time by the average team is: .108. Obviously when looking at the average team the SH time is the same.

The average team scored 158 ES goals and if we assume they similarly have an average of around 46 minutes of ES time per game, the means that the goals per minute during ES time by the average team is: .042

So on a per minute basis, at least by the average team in 2011, ES was the least "game changing".

Although I have not had coffee yet so check yourself. hahaha


Last edited by seventieslord: 08-01-2011 at 11:44 AM.
BraveCanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 08:11 AM
  #329
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,656
vCash: 500
Actually, I would expect one of those 50's Canadiens teams to have some of the best GF/GA ratios.

During the Rocket's career:

(year): (for) - (against)
44-45: 228 - 121
45-46: 172 - 134
46-47: 189 - 138
47-48: 147 - 169
48-49: 152 - 126
49-50: 172 - 150
50-51: 173 - 184
51-52: 195 - 164
52-53: 155 - 148
53-54: 195 - 141
54-55: 228 - 157
55-56: 222 - 131
56-57: 210 - 155
57-58: 250 - 158
58-59: 268 - 158
59-60: 255 - 178

I'll be floored if the 44-45 and 55-56 seasons aren't two of the 5 most dominant seasons of all time in terms of GF/GA. 1.88 and 1.69, respectively.

EDIT: Oh, whoops. COMBINED GF/GA, haha. 83-84 Oilers: 446 for, 314 against. 760 total. o_O

EDIT2: And that 314 was only 11th worst in the league that year.. LMAO! They did pretty well against the average, though. 314 against compared to the 316 average GA.


Last edited by seventieslord: 08-01-2011 at 11:44 AM.
jarek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 09:48 AM
  #330
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,225
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
Awesome Express selects utility forward Alf Pike, F
Utility player. Pike played some D as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
They would have to be up there. It was a nail-biting team to watch but a lot of fun with all the talented young guys they had.
I still think that if that whole core had been allowed to stay together and develop as it was, they might have been destined for bigger things than they achieved in 1993 and 1994.

On the other hand, Damphousse, Richardson, and Leeman were used to get important veteran pieces - one of whom led to Andreychuk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Looking at the 2011 season:

The average team scored 62 PP goals in 351 attempts. If we assume that the average team has around 7 minutes of PP time / game as seventies said, that means that the goals per minute of PP time by the average team is: .108. Obviously when looking at the average team the SH time is the same.

The average team scored 158 ES goals and if we assume they similarly have an average of around 46 minutes of ES time per game, the means that the goals per minute during ES time by the average team is: .042

So on a per minute basis, at least by the average team in 2011, ES was the least "game changing".

Although I have not had coffee yet so check yourself. hahaha
Per minute, yes. You didn't need to do a calculation to figure that out!

Looks like goals are about 2.5X as frequent on the PP vs. at ES. I would have guessed even more prior to doing the calculations.

But I assure you, if you compare teams' point totals with their PP and PK records, there is very weak correlation or none at all. ES record is where it's at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarek View Post
During the Rocket's career:

(year): (for) - (against)
44-45: 228 - 121
45-46: 172 - 134
46-47: 189 - 138
47-48: 147 - 169
48-49: 152 - 126
49-50: 172 - 150
50-51: 173 - 184
51-52: 195 - 164
52-53: 155 - 148
53-54: 195 - 141
54-55: 228 - 157
55-56: 222 - 131
56-57: 210 - 155
57-58: 250 - 158
58-59: 268 - 158
59-60: 255 - 178

I'll be floored if the 44-45 and 55-56 seasons aren't two of the 5 most dominant seasons of all time in terms of GF/GA. 1.88 and 1.69, respectively.

EDIT: Oh, whoops. COMBINED GF/GA, haha. 83-84 Oilers: 446 for, 314 against. 760 total. o_O

EDIT2: And that 314 was only 11th worst in the league that year.. LMAO! They did pretty well against the average, though. 314 against compared to the 316 average GA.

LOL, I was wondering when you would realize we were talking about combined GF/GA here. Is that Oiler team the highest one they had? The 1990 Leafs had 695 total GF/GA, 18% higher than the league average. The 1984 Oilers beat the league average by 20%. I checked the 1996 Pens because they were an A+ offensively and D+ defensively. Looks like we have a winner... 25% above the average!

I checked a few of those Hab years you listed. Best I could find was 6% above the average. that's the problem with being so dominant at both ends... your total GF/GA will be about average, just at a very extraordinary distribution!

----------------------------

Looks like chaos and reen are both skipped. I'll be back with my picks shortly.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 10:02 AM
  #331
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I still think that if that whole core had been allowed to stay together and develop as it was, they might have been destined for bigger things than they achieved in 1993 and 1994.

On the other hand, Damphousse, Richardson, and Leeman were used to get important veteran pieces - one of whom led to Andreychuk.
Most importantly Gilmour! Yeah that was a talented group of young players who could possibly have learned some defensive responsibility ala Damphousse as they got older.

But 2 of the top 6 forwards got hurt and were never the same, and 2 important guys got traded the next year.. too bad.

Quote:
Per minute, yes. You didn't need to do a calculation to figure that out!

Looks like goals are about 2.5X as frequent on the PP vs. at ES. I would have guessed even more prior to doing the calculations.

But I assure you, if you compare teams' point totals with their PP and PK records, there is very weak correlation or none at all. ES record is where it's at.
That would make some sense since ES is the bulk of the time and is also more reliable in a sense. You don't always get the timely killed penalty to keep you in the game or powerplay opportunity to catch up or put you ahead or whatever.

I would imagine that the correlation changes quite a bit with the number of powerplay opportunities in the league and a number of other factors. I would guess that special teams would be more important when scoring is lower recently.

The point was that the adage is correct - the biggest bang for the buck as far as minutes go are PP and PK.

BraveCanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 10:22 AM
  #332
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,225
vCash: 500
I'll start by taking a guy I had last year in the AA draft, a guy I just got more and more impressed with, the more I read about him: Pat Boutette, F.

Boutette can play all three forward positions and is definitely better than Mark Hunter, just sayin'. (I proved this to VI last draft )

He was small but was a real tough customer and never scored below 30 points, twice scoring 70. He was great along the boards and in front of the net, he could fight and was a good agitator and had a real mean streak too. In short - an ideal 4th-liner.

I have been waiting to take him all draft and thought I'd be taking him on my last set of picks, but didn't anticipate Tucker being available, and though I have some bitterness towards Tucker and Boutette is a personal favourite, I couldn't help but admit Tucker was the slightly more desirable player here.

Here's my bio on Boutette from last year. Hopefully I can find a bit more on him this time:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=241

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander
Nice analysis. I undervalued Boutette.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 10:26 AM
  #333
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,656
vCash: 500
There's still something to be said for nearly doubling your goals against in goals for..

jarek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 10:27 AM
  #334
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,225
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Most importantly Gilmour! Yeah that was a talented group of young players who could possibly have learned some defensive responsibility ala Damphousse as they got older.

But 2 of the top 6 forwards got hurt and were never the same, and 2 important guys got traded the next year.. too bad.
Not to mention two of the top-3 defensemen... who would have and could have been very useful parts of a successful Leafs resurgence.

Also, not doing the trade with NJ would have been nice... it sucks that the team took such a step back in 1990 with almost the exact same lineup but if we could have at least gotten a Niedermayer out of the deal, it would have obviously been worth it.

Quote:
That would make some sense since ES is the bulk of the time and is also more reliable in a sense. You don't always get the timely killed penalty to keep you in the game or powerplay opportunity to catch up or put you ahead or whatever.

I would imagine that the correlation changes quite a bit with the number of powerplay opportunities in the league and a number of other factors. I would guess that special teams would be more important when scoring is lower recently.

The point was that the adage is correct - the biggest bang for the buck as far as minutes go are PP and PK.
Yes, I would imagine that if you checked seasons in which there was a higher % of PP goals scored (meaning there was more time spent on the PP) then you'd find those correlations would start to get a little bigger. (see the "refining adjusted stats" thread - CYM has numbers there showing the percentage. I was surprised at how much it has varied over time!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarek View Post
There's still something to be said for nearly doubling your goals against in goals for..
Oh, absolutely...

It's just not what we were talking about


Last edited by seventieslord: 08-01-2011 at 11:46 AM.
seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 10:51 AM
  #335
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,338
vCash: 800
I will start by selecting Baldy Spittal D

I will also select Stan Jonathan LW

how do you guys view Spittal? Would you use him as a spare or is he good enough to crack my top6 ?


Last edited by seventieslord: 08-01-2011 at 11:47 AM.
BenchBrawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 10:56 AM
  #336
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,225
vCash: 500
I'll also grab our #7 defenseman, a guy who averaged 21.95 minutes a game for 1157 games, plus 60 more in 11 international tournaments for the USA. At age 40, he still couldn't say no to more hockey, and he has 225 AHL games under his belt bookending his NHL career: Eric Weinrich, D.

Weinrich was pretty much just a steady #3-4 his entire career, aside from a 3-year period where he got #1 minutes in MTL/BOS and his 2-year stint as NJ's #5. I see him as the MLD version of Glen Wesley: very steady, very consistent, had some offensive upside when used that way, a good useful guy to slot into your 5/6 spot or who can sit in the press box when everyone is healthy. I wouldn't say there was any area Weinrich was elite or deficient in. Just a well-rounded, well-grounded player and that kept him useful for a very long time.

not sure if TheJudge is awake, but I'll text him.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 11:04 AM
  #337
Velociraptor
Registered User
 
Velociraptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Maritimes
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
how do you guys view Spittal? Would you use him as a spare or is he good enough to crack my top6 ?
For the sake of Reen asking opinions on everything, can we start the assassination thread?

Velociraptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 11:13 AM
  #338
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
how do you guys view Spittal? Would you use him as a spare or is he good enough to crack my top6 ?
I don't think many people know a lot about Spittal. I know two things... first he was a long-time captain, which means he was a good leader and also must have been at least a good player. second, he was involved in a brutal stick-swinging attack, which I think means he was at least occasionally aggressive.

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 11:18 AM
  #339
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,338
vCash: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I don't think many people know a lot about Spittal. I know two things... first he was a long-time captain, which means he was a good leader and also must have been at least a good player. second, he was involved in a brutal stick-swinging attack, which I think means he was at least occasionally aggressive.
i love this

BenchBrawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 11:53 AM
  #340
TheJudge
Registered User
 
TheJudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 801
vCash: 50
Thunder Bay Twins select:

D Marcus Ragnarsson

Ragnarsson will add some stability and reliability to our corps.

From Legends of Hockey:

Marcus Ragnarsson played six years of hockey in the Swedish Elite League with Djurgardens before making the leap to North America to launch his NHL career with the San Jose Sharks in 1995.
With so many years of elite competition already under his belt, Ragnarsson had all of the skills necessary to step right into the Sharks' lineup and add stability to the team.

He did so by establishing himself as a consistent and dependable rearguard who played a sound positional game and made good use of his size to maintain control of his own zone. He also showed great stamina by logging a tonne of minutes in key situations.

Ragnarsson opened the 2001-02 campaign at his usual post on the Sharks defense, surrounded by his youthful proteges before being dealt to the Philadelphia Flyers midway through the 2002-03 season. Upon his arrival with the Flyers, Ragnarsson continued his solid play in his own zone and was a key player in helping Philadelphia reach the Eastern Conference Final in 2003-04.

Ragnarsson is a two-time member of Sweden's World Championship team (1995 and 1997), a two-time member of it's Olympic Team (1998 and 2002), a member of it's World Cup team (2004), and played in the 2001 All Star Game.


LW Scott Hartnell

Hartnell will add some physicality, board work, and scoring to our fourth line.

From the PredatorsReport: Has deceptive speed and is quick to the puck...Works very well along the boards and in the corners...Has good passing skills and works hard to set up his linemates...A creative playmaker...Has a solid shot and is dangerous around the net...Excels in a physical game...A very aggressive forechecker who has a strong physical presence on the ice...A very determined player who can intimidate opponents with his work ethic and physical play...A good team player and excellent leader.

Coach Floyd Smith

In his first year guided the Buffalo Sabres to First in the Adams and the Stanley Cup Finals. Boasts a regular season point percentage of 62.6%.

G Roman Cechmanek

Cechmanek will man our goal with Pelle Lindbergh

From BleachReport:

Career statistics: Regular season (NHL): 212 GP, 110-64-28, 2.08 GAA, .919 S %, 25 SO; Playoffs: 23 GP, 9-14, 2.33 GAA, .909 S %, Jennings Trophy (2002-03), All-Star (2001)

... He immediately thrust himself into the starting role with the Flyers, playing 59 games as a rookie and posting a record of 35-15-6, with a ridiculous 2.01 GAA and .921 save percentage, with ten shutouts. He was not eligible for the Calder Trophy due to age limits but it would be ranked as one of the better first years of all-time.

Cechmanek had three amazing regular seasons with the Flyers, but his best was 2002-03, when he had a record of 33-15-10 in 58 games with a 1.83 GAA, .925 save percentage and six shutouts. The Flyers would go on to beat the Toronto Maple Leafs in seven games, but fell to the Ottawa Senators in the second round in six games.

From Legends of Hockey:

Roman Cechmanek was born in Gottwaldov, Czechoslovakia on March 2, 1971. Tall and slender, 'Chemo' starred with Vsetin of the Czech Elite League for five seasons, winning championships in each of those five campaigns. Cechmanek also played on three Czech world championship teams and was part of the 1998 Olympic gold-medal winning Czech Republic team.

Cechmanek was the third selection of the Philadelphia Flyers in the 2000 NHL Entry Draft, and joined the Flyers in 2000-01 as a 29-year old rookie. It was quite a debut season -- second in the NHL with 10 shutouts, second in the NHL with a 2.01 goals against average, fourth in the NHL in save percentage (92.1%). Cechmanek went on to appear in the annual All-Star Game, was selected to the NHL's Second All-Star Team at the end of the 2000-01 season and was a finalist for the Vezina Trophy as the NHL's best goaltender. That season was no fluke -- both in 2001-02 and 2002-03, Cechmanek finished second in goals-against average and near the top of the league in save percentage and wins, while capturing the William Jennings Award in 2003.


Last edited by TheJudge: 08-01-2011 at 12:05 PM.
TheJudge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 12:03 PM
  #341
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,225
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
You don't know Alex Motter? I thought you lived in Regina? He is a Cup winning defenseman who played very well in the beginning of the 40s. As a foward in Boston he was jumping between NHL and AHl but when traded to the Red Wings Adams used him on defense instead. I excelled..
Ha, good point, maybe I should know who Alex Motter was, but I admit I didn't! I actually thought he was another European no one had heard of that you were going to tell us more about

Looks like a decent, unspectacular player. Similar in stature, probably, to the plethora of 80s-00s guys that started going in the AA draft last year.

the years he played are now fully illuminated with complete all-star votes to help guide us along as to who the most highly-regarded players were. He did get one vote in 1943 to place 10th. Not sure what it means other than someone back then thought he was somewhat special... which is at least something!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
how do you guys view Spittal? Would you use him as a spare or is he good enough to crack my top6 ?
Dreak basically outlined all we know about him. I had him last AA draft, as I'm sure you knew. He was tough and he was a leader. As far as where he ranked in his generation of defensemen... pretty much add up the guys already taken from that time, and that's about where he belongs. I have a feeling he probably deserves to be taken sooner, and you know I don't think Stuart has ever really distinguished himself so I might be inclined to switch them, but that's just me.

A defense with Smith, Rouse and Spittal is scary. No one's standing in that crease, except pat Boutette

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
For the sake of Reen asking opinions on everything, can we start the assassination thread?
let's give it a day or two. As soon as one team has made their 25th pick... go right ahead. Only completed rosters should be posted. We should have a nice long assassination period, like a week.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 12:23 PM
  #342
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,225
vCash: 500
Regina selects backup Earl Robertson, G

Robertson won the 1937 Stanley Cup with Detroit. In 1939 he was 4th in Hart voting and on the 2nd all-star team. In 1940 he was 5th in hart voting behind 4 HHOFers, and 3rd in All-star voting behind Kerr and Brimsek.

With 190 games and 15 more in the playoffs, Robertson's short career is his drawback as an ATD player. Johnny Mowers, also a one-time all-star and one-time cup winner (and no-time top-5 hart vote-getter) played 152 and 32, and I thought he was a very good pick when he got taken.

Next, Regina selects a good leader and all-around multi-positional guy to have on the bench, Charlie Tobin, F/D. The Trail speaks of him as a good stickhandler and a guy who played all positions. He's very frequently mentioned when I search PCHA game reports for other players, often as a captain or playing coach. He was top-10 in PCHA goals a couple of times. In terms of his offensive dominance within the PCHA (obviously some guys played elsewhere too, which affects their overall rankings), I have him rated just below Dubbie Kerr and Jack McDonald, and just ahead of Bobby Rowe, Jim Riley and Barney Stanley (but closer to the bottom three than the top 2)

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 12:44 PM
  #343
vecens24
Registered User
 
vecens24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 5,002
vCash: 500
We actually had Robertson as our #1 rated goalie in the draft coming into the draft, but upon more research we decided it was Mowers. Then we decided we probably couldn't take two short career goalies. Excellent pick here seventies.

vecens24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 12:55 PM
  #344
Iain Fyffe
Hockey fact-checker
 
Iain Fyffe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fredericton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,079
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
The whole team did quite a bit worse offensively and Leeman's normal center (don't know if he has been drafted yet) was also traded that year
Not before the injury, he wasn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
I'll just stick by being quite confident he could have continued being a 30 goal guy if not for the injury.
30-goal guy? Sure. They were plentiful at the time. He was a 30-goal guy before the injury as well. But I thought we were talking about his 50-goal season being a fluke, which it still seems it was. His 1989/90 season certainly has one hallmark of a fluke year: a scoring percentage significantly higher than his career mark.

Iain Fyffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 01:03 PM
  #345
Velociraptor
Registered User
 
Velociraptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Maritimes
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,772
vCash: 500
A couple of great picks there, Judge.

Cechmanek is a guy I didn't even think of, but he's a good back-up in the MLD. Hartnell is also a very legitimate role player and serves as a good spare.

Ragnarsson was solid from what I can remember.

Velociraptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 01:07 PM
  #346
Iain Fyffe
Hockey fact-checker
 
Iain Fyffe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fredericton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,079
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Next, Regina selects a good leader and all-around multi-positional guy to have on the bench, Charlie Tobin, F/D. The Trail speaks of him as a good stickhandler and a guy who played all positions. He's very frequently mentioned when I search PCHA game reports for other players, often as a captain or playing coach. He was top-10 in PCHA goals a couple of times. In terms of his offensive dominance within the PCHA (obviously some guys played elsewhere too, which affects their overall rankings), I have him rated just below Dubbie Kerr and Jack McDonald, and just ahead of Bobby Rowe, Jim Riley and Barney Stanley (but closer to the bottom three than the top 2)
Have to admit Tobin slipped through my fingers there. Very good pick at this point.

By my figures he played about 40% of his games at RW, 22% on defence, 17% at LW and 15% at C.

Iain Fyffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 01:16 PM
  #347
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Next, Regina selects a good leader and all-around multi-positional guy to have on the bench, Charlie Tobin, F/D. The Trail speaks of him as a good stickhandler and a guy who played all positions. He's very frequently mentioned when I search PCHA game reports for other players, often as a captain or playing coach. He was top-10 in PCHA goals a couple of times. In terms of his offensive dominance within the PCHA (obviously some guys played elsewhere too, which affects their overall rankings), I have him rated just below Dubbie Kerr and Jack McDonald, and just ahead of Bobby Rowe, Jim Riley and Barney Stanley (but closer to the bottom three than the top 2)
He was top-10 more than a few times - 3rd, 5th, 8th, 8th, 10th, and 11th in PCHA goals.

After consolidation, he was more like 4th, 13th, 18th, 22nd, 24th, and 28th, which is still pretty good.

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 01:17 PM
  #348
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,225
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
Not before the injury, he wasn't.


30-goal guy? Sure. They were plentiful at the time. He was a 30-goal guy before the injury as well. But I thought we were talking about his 50-goal season being a fluke, which it still seems it was. His 1989/90 season certainly has one hallmark of a fluke year: a scoring percentage significantly higher than his career mark.
I believe Leeman is 2nd or 3rd on the list of "highest percentage of career goals coming in one season" that was posted in the HOH section a couple years back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
A couple of great picks there, Judge.

Cechmanek is a guy I didn't even think of, but he's a good back-up in the MLD. Hartnell is also a very legitimate role player and serves as a good spare.

Ragnarsson was solid from what I can remember.
Cechmanek deserves at least this much respect. He probably got misjudged in hart and all-star voting thanks to personal numbers that were likely helped by the strong Flyers, but how badly misjudged could he have been? How much can sv% really lie?

He had some soft playoff goals too, but overall the numbers were pretty strong.

Plus he had some great years in the Czech league.

Just looking at those 5 years prior to the lockout: These other three goalies had the same team advantage Cechmanek had playing for Philly, and he absolutely crushed them:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...er_by=save_pct

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
Have to admit Tobin slipped through my fingers there. Very good pick at this point.

By my figures he played about 40% of his games at RW, 22% on defence, 17% at LW and 15% at C.
Wow, that is an awesome breakdown, even better than I thought it would be.

I now have a legit #7 in Weinrich and then two guys who are passable #8 guys in extreme situations (I think I have to assume both Kampman - short career - and Sargent - injuries - will miss their share of games over an 82-game MLD season, sometimes at the same time)

Quote:
He was top-10 more than a few times - 3rd, 5th, 8th, 8th, 10th, and 11th in PCHA goals.

After consolidation, he was more like 4th, 13th, 18th, 22nd, 24th, and 28th, which is still pretty good.
one of those 8ths and the 10th must have come in the WCHL era, I imagine, as they didn't make the "cut" in my study. I had him at one top-5 and one top-15 (which your study agrees with) and it looks like you credited him with another top-20 that I didn't.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 01:26 PM
  #349
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 43,480
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
We actually had Robertson as our #1 rated goalie in the draft coming into the draft, but upon more research we decided it was Mowers. Then we decided we probably couldn't take two short career goalies. Excellent pick here seventies.
Eh, he was our top goalie because we were wrongly seduced by his 4th and 5th place finishes in Hart voting. The more I looked at him, the more they looked like "poor goalie has to carry a terrible team" votes.

I found a lot of contemporary articles from the day about how Mowers was already considered one of the all-time great goalies. Nothing like that about Robertson. When Robertson was a second team All Star in 1939, it was over absolutely terrible competition. (The late 30s was hockey's original dark age of goaltending).

He's a very worthy backup, not an "excellent" one in my opinion.

Edit: Also, the reason they had short careers is totally different and really important, IMO. Mowers left to serve in WW2 at the peak of his game, just having been a First Team All Star (over fantastic competition). After missing 3 full years, he came back to the league and couldn't beat out Harry Lumley to get the starting role back. Robertson had those 2 great seasons, then quickly played his way out of the league with poor play (to be fair, his team was so bad, who knows if any goalie could have played well on it).


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 08-01-2011 at 01:37 PM.
TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2011, 01:31 PM
  #350
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
one of those 8ths and the 10th must have come in the WCHL era, I imagine, as they didn't make the "cut" in my study. I had him at one top-5 and one top-15 (which your study agrees with) and it looks like you credited him with another top-20 that I didn't.
Here are the numbers and years I have.
1913 - 5th (22nd)
1915 - 11th (28th)
1916 - 3rd (4th)
1917 - 10th (24th)
1919 - 8th (13th)
1920 - 8th (18th)

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:51 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.