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Offseason Movement Thread III (Acq./Rstr. Bldg./Cap Mgt.)

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08-29-2011, 11:55 PM
  #276
txpd
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
I can't help but wander if we could have snagged Lemaire for a season if we threw him 5-6 million dollars, even with him wanting to retire and all. I'm convinced with him and our current roster we would be able to pull it off. He turned Kovalchuk into god on skates, I shudder to think what he could have made Ovechkin into. I've come to peace with the fact that my realistic choice for a coach (Muller) wasn't hireable since the fallout from the potential scenario of replacing Bruce with a first timer and subsequently doing worse was unacceptable to McPhee from a cover-own-ass perspective.
kovalchuk is a god on skates?

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08-30-2011, 12:04 AM
  #277
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kovalchuk is a god on skates?
How DARE you question the greatness of Kovalchuk.

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08-30-2011, 12:05 AM
  #278
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kovalchuk is a god on skates?
Last half of last year he pretty much was. I know he was on a streak but still. 2 out of every 3 games they won were thanks to him doing something uber clutch. It was as if the hockey gods decided to **** with everyone's perception of him and made everything he touches turn to clutch game-winning gold full of clutchyness. Remember Arnott to Semin in round 1? That was him for like 30 games straight.

Clutch.

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08-30-2011, 12:12 AM
  #279
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Yeah just looked it up. 4th in the NHL in GWGs on a team that pretty much wrote off half of the season. And I remember like 5 or 6 more crucial game tying goals as well. I don't even blame Devils fans for behaving like 4chan users on hockey flavored crack since January.

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08-30-2011, 12:37 AM
  #280
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Yeah just looked it up. 4th in the NHL in GWGs on a team that pretty much wrote off half of the season. And I remember like 5 or 6 more crucial game tying goals as well. I don't even blame Devils fans for behaving like 4chan users on hockey flavored crack since January.
I've actually picked them to win the Atlantic Division due to the uncertainty with Crosby in Pitt and the uncertainty in Philly with the trades of Carter and Richards along with the fact that New Jersey was ridiculously hot at the end of last year. However some of the Devil fans I've interacted with on the board seem to be cautious due to the fact that Jacques Lemaire retired again.

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08-30-2011, 12:43 AM
  #281
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I've actually picked them to win the Atlantic Division due to the uncertainty with Crosby in Pitt and the uncertainty in Philly with the trades of Carter and Richards along with the fact that New Jersey was ridiculously hot at the end of last year. However some of the Devil fans I've interacted with on the board seem to be cautious due to the fact that Jacques Lemaire retired again.
He'll be back by January, lol.

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08-30-2011, 12:52 AM
  #282
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kovalchuk achieves god on skates status because of a hot streak of games during regular season garbage time?

ok

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08-30-2011, 06:45 AM
  #283
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do you mean that regardless of anything or all things being equal?
Not sure I understand your question, but I think the former. I hold no ill will towards Boudreau, and I think those that do are morons. But history has proven that sometimes coaching gets stale and a new voice is needed to put a team over the top. I think we're probably already there, but we'll certainly be there if this coming season goes like the last 2. There is nothing he can do to prove himself a stronger regular season coach than he already has. But obviously mastering the regular season hasn't translated.

And for those who think he's a bad coach, watch how quickly he gets hired. He won't be on the market more than 2 week after get fired.

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08-30-2011, 06:57 AM
  #284
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i am mostly talking about injuries. if you had put bylsma on a win this season or else list and then crosby and malkin are gone, would you really blame the coaching?

often times absolutes create mistakes and flip/flops.

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08-30-2011, 08:43 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Yeah just looked it up. 4th in the NHL in GWGs on a team that pretty much wrote off half of the season. And I remember like 5 or 6 more crucial game tying goals as well. I don't even blame Devils fans for behaving like 4chan users on hockey flavored crack since January.
Yeah there is nothing more clutch than earning the GWG...

Kovalchuk had one good month, February. After that he put up 10 goals in 20 games and was a -6. That is 'God on skates' play?

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08-30-2011, 09:06 AM
  #286
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kovalchuk achieves god on skates status because of a hot streak of games during regular season garbage time?

ok
I'm totally with you.

Kovalchuk is completely an overrated player in my book. The guy is one of the worst players I've ever seen in terms of board work. He gets frustrated very easily outside of that. He floats, plays subpar D and doesn't go into the dirty areas nearly enough.

Last half of last year is definitely garbage time.

Devils will not make the playoffs with him as their goto guy. They need Parise to be healthy and Brodeur to discover the fountain of youth. They are the 2nd worst team in their own division.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Last half of last year he pretty much was. I know he was on a streak but still. 2 out of every 3 games they won were thanks to him doing something uber clutch. It was as if the hockey gods decided to **** with everyone's perception of him and made everything he touches turn to clutch game-winning gold full of clutchyness. Remember Arnott to Semin in round 1? That was him for like 30 games straight.

Clutch.
How can you call them "clutch" goals when the Devs were clearly out of the playoffs by Xmas time??

They were playing with house money so all the pressure was off and every team they played suspected "easy victory".

GWG are not all created equally. Depends on the importance of the game.

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08-30-2011, 09:07 AM
  #287
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Plus Minus can be quite the misleading stat, I thought most around here knew that already. 10 goals in 20 games is a very respectable pace, 40+. Semin is often said to be in god mode, and has only hit 40 once. 40 goals in a defensive system trumps 40 in a firewagon offense.

There is no god. My name is Fred.

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08-30-2011, 09:40 AM
  #288
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Plus Minus can be quite the misleading stat, I thought most around here knew that already. 10 goals in 20 games is a very respectable pace, 40+. Semin is often said to be in god mode, and has only hit 40 once. 40 goals in a defensive system trumps 40 in a firewagon offense.

There is no god. My name is Fred.
Sure 10 goals in 20 games is nothing to sneeze at but it isn't 'God on skates' production. When Semin is in 'God mode' for 20 games he isn't putting up 17 points and going -6 over that time. That is 40 goals and 70 points over 82 games production.

When Semin was in 'God mode' for the first 2 months of the season last year he score 18 goals, put up 30 points, and was +8 in 25 games. That is 59 goals and 98 points over 82 games production.

Semin has only hit 40 once because he is so inconsistent. If he were always good he'd way exceed his normal production and nobody would have any issues with him.

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08-30-2011, 09:44 AM
  #289
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Semin has only hit 40 once because he is so inconsistent and healthy. If he were always good he'd way exceed his normal production and nobody would have any issues with him.
Fixed.

Most goal scorers (Bondra and Gartner for instance) are streaky for sure. Semin would have hit 40 goals 2 or 3 more times if he stayed healthy. Sure thats an "if" but still ...

Also Semin is superior defensively and much much better along the boards.

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08-30-2011, 10:06 AM
  #290
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No problem with that as Semin is definitely Fra-gee-lay. He must be Italian...

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08-30-2011, 10:14 AM
  #291
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And for those who think he's a bad coach, watch how quickly he gets hired. He won't be on the market more than 2 week after get fired.
I don't know about two weeks but as long as there are young talented teams with zero expectations, Bruce will have a job.

I sincerely doubt any contender would seriously vet, much less hire him.

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08-30-2011, 10:28 AM
  #292
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How can you call them "clutch" goals when the Devs were clearly out of the playoffs by Xmas time??

They were playing with house money so all the pressure was off and every team they played suspected "easy victory".

GWG are not all created equally. Depends on the importance of the game.
Because they went on a hotter run than the Caps did during Boudreau's first season (without Parise and with the goaltending deferred to Hedberg) and almost made it to the playoffs? How can you be clearly out and then have your team come within a realistic benchmark of making it (2-3 games going the wrong way) later in the year?

And I love the easy victory excuse. I'm pretty sure after they had 9 wins in a row or so most teams would stop suspecting "easy victory".

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08-30-2011, 10:28 AM
  #293
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Depends on the importance of the game.
Perhaps Lemaire taught Kovalchuk to see every game as "important"

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08-30-2011, 10:35 AM
  #294
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Plus Minus can be quite the misleading stat.
Can be. Yes. Can be a leading stat. Also yes. You have to know what you are looking at to know the difference.

What is most often true about +/- is that numbers that are notably out of character to the majority are generally indicator numbers.

nylander's +/- plummet while playing with his shoulder injury was not remotely misleading. when rod brind'amour started logging hideous minus numbers even with his outragiously good face off possession numbers, it was a sure sign that he had lost his game. vincent lecavalier was carrying some sorry minus numbers and if you watched him play it was obvious that it was his game and not a weak stat.

it will be interesting to see what happens this season with 55. while many would poo poo his +50 as a bad stat, his +/- collapse was pointed at as proof of his poor play.

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08-30-2011, 10:38 AM
  #295
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Perhaps Lemaire taught Kovalchuk to see every game as "important"
or...lemaire was successful in teaching kovalchuk that all those games at the end of last season had little importance and he should let the pressure ease off.

now that you have brought it up, though. were he coaching the caps to an east destroying 125pt season because every game is important, would you be giving more credit to those regular season wins than the last couple of seasons?

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08-30-2011, 10:50 AM
  #296
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Because they went on a hotter run than the Caps did during Boudreau's first season (without Parise and with the goaltending deferred to Hedberg) and almost made it to the playoffs? How can you be clearly out and then have your team come within a realistic benchmark of making it (2-3 games going the wrong way) later in the year?

And I love the easy victory excuse. I'm pretty sure after they had 9 wins in a row or so most teams would stop suspecting "easy victory".
But when the pressure was back on as the Devs got within striking distance they suddenly fell back down to earth. I don't know...I think I've seen it too many times in too many sports...pressure is a factor and the Devils didn't have much after thier 1st half

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08-30-2011, 11:10 AM
  #297
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Kovalchuk wasn't even a point-per-game player after the All-Star break.

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08-30-2011, 11:57 AM
  #298
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or...lemaire was successful in teaching kovalchuk that all those games at the end of last season had little importance and he should let the pressure ease off.

now that you have brought it up, though. were he coaching the caps to an east destroying 125pt season because every game is important, would you be giving more credit to those regular season wins than the last couple of seasons?
the caps during that year were an order of magnitude better than what lemaire had to work with on just about all fronts (except maybe goal, but remember hedberg overtook brodeur). it was pretty much all players flawlessly executing a gameplan with much less sponatenous offensive combustion that the caps were able to effortlessly create.

obviously the regular season alone is not enough, but lemaire has shown himself to be a more than adept playoff coach as well. i valued boudreau's first year when he got us into the playoffs after being way far out pretty highly, moreso than any following year. its just that after that he started to really really plateau, which culminated with him refusing to coach against tampa bay this year.

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08-30-2011, 12:09 PM
  #299
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Lemaire is an outstanding coach. He has a specific system that he plays and has not moved from it. His teams have rosters that are built with that style of game and personality in mind. I would suggest to you that McPhee would have to significantly restructure the team to make it fit for Lemaire.

You seem to be sold on the idea that Lemaire would make Ovechkin into something truely special. I look at Ovechkin's skill set and the things that set him above the rest and Lemaire really doesnt use those skills in his game.

Lemaire's required gears are a creeper gear for the neutral zone and reverse. Ovechkin's best gears are high end forward gears. Ovechkin is not Kovalchuk. Much of what Ov does Kovy cant do.

Edit: I checked. The final 20 games of the season. Devils were 11-8-1. Kovalchuk 10g 7a 17pts -6. Last 10 games. Devils were 4-5-1. Kovalchuk 5g 4a 9pts -8. Caps final 20 games in 07-08. 15-4-1. Ovechkin 17g 14a 31pts +20. Last 10 games. Caps were 9-1-0. Ovechkin 8g 5a 13pts +10.

Looking at that, I see a god on skates and he's not wearing 17.


Last edited by txpd: 08-30-2011 at 12:26 PM.
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08-30-2011, 04:29 PM
  #300
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Lemaire is an outstanding coach. He has a specific system that he plays and has not moved from it. His teams have rosters that are built with that style of game and personality in mind. I would suggest to you that McPhee would have to significantly restructure the team to make it fit for Lemaire.

You seem to be sold on the idea that Lemaire would make Ovechkin into something truely special. I look at Ovechkin's skill set and the things that set him above the rest and Lemaire really doesnt use those skills in his game.

Lemaire's required gears are a creeper gear for the neutral zone and reverse. Ovechkin's best gears are high end forward gears. Ovechkin is not Kovalchuk. Much of what Ov does Kovy cant do.

Edit: I checked. The final 20 games of the season. Devils were 11-8-1. Kovalchuk 10g 7a 17pts -6. Last 10 games. Devils were 4-5-1. Kovalchuk 5g 4a 9pts -8. Caps final 20 games in 07-08. 15-4-1. Ovechkin 17g 14a 31pts +20. Last 10 games. Caps were 9-1-0. Ovechkin 8g 5a 13pts +10.

Looking at that, I see a god on skates and he's not wearing 17.
You can't seriously think Lemaire would do worse with our current roster than what he had to work with on the Devils unless you have absolutely no faith in our players. To say that a coach who can utilize Kovalchuk and Gaborik effectively cannot utilize Ovechkin, simply because Ovechkin has different "gears" is just stupid. Ovechkin is an ideal counterattacking player if used properly, probably the scariest counterattacking player in the league. The rest of our forwards are pretty uniformly a notch above Zajac, Palmieri, Tedenby, Josefson, Rolston, Elias, etc. And if you want to look at someone who misuses Ovechkin, look no further than BB, who puts him out on the PP in a position to burn him out as fast as possible by having him sprint up and down the ice 5 times a PP to fetch the puck to no effect. Funny how Boucher manages not to turn his PP into one HIIT session after another for his star players.

And the Devils roster is not built with Lemaire in mind. It's built with Kovalchuk in mind. Only one you can argue they got for Lemaire was Rolston. Everyone else was either there before Lemaire or gotten by LL in a pinch when he was trying to quickly put a core together during the summer of Kovy. Lemaire just makes it work by squeezing out great performances from everyone else.

And way to not consider the fact that Kovalchuk was pretty much bringing forward half the offense for them in that 2nd half.

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