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Offseason Movement Thread III (Acq./Rstr. Bldg./Cap Mgt.)

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Old
08-31-2011, 11:16 AM
  #326
BobRouse
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
The fact that it didn't work last year just hammers home the point that they need a system. Talent alone isn't enough. From a coaching perspective, you have to maximize your talent by putting it in a system and position in which it has the best chance to succeed. I'm not saying there isn't a system now, but it seems like they're leaning pretty heavily on the natural talent to get the job done. I'd like to see more balance between talent and strategy.
So did they have a system for 2.5 years or so when they had one of the premier PPs in the league? If not then somehow they performed well.

Its not like anyone figured them out or is doing anything differently. Its just that last year, for whatever reason, all the players didn't execute on the PP or 5 on 5. 4 on 4 was brutal too. It was just an abberation of a year.

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08-31-2011, 11:28 AM
  #327
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They sure as hell did figure out a major element of the power play. The backdoor pass to Green at the right circles is gone. That's what, 10 ppgs a year? Might not sound like much but ten goals last year would be a drop of almost 4% in pp efficiency -or the difference between 15th overall and 6th overall.

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08-31-2011, 11:30 AM
  #328
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There were definite changes in regards to how other teams approached the Capitals' powerplay (and offense in general) last season. They denied room at the points (and to Ovechkin in general) and focused on blocking or eliminating point shots. There's a little bit of chicken-vs.-egg that happens with the play of Green and Ovechkin last season and the opponent's strategy to stress the points on the PP.

That said, a resurgent season from Backstrom (especially in the goal scoring department) forces teams to take pressure of the points. And if Ovechkin and Green improve, they should be able to create opportunities despite higher pressure at the points (they're certainly talented enough). Green's shot, in general, was lackluster last season. A bigger shot threat from the right point (whether it be from Green, Wideman, or Carlson) will open up a lot of space for other players (particularly Semin and Backstrom on the half-boards).

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08-31-2011, 11:35 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
They sure as hell did figure out a major element of the power play. The backdoor pass to Green at the right circles is gone. That's what, 10 ppgs a year? Might not sound like much but ten goals last year would be a drop of almost 4% in pp efficiency -or the difference between 15th overall and 6th overall.
But maybe part of that was the fact that Green missed half the season and never really got into a rythm??

On why his numbers declined last year.
“When you’re producing and your production is coming throughout the season, it’s usually in a flow and comes in long periods. Anytime you’re out and you’re in, you can’t get that feel for the game as well."

http://www.russianmachineneverbreaks...e-stanley-cup/

Its true. I feel that in beer leagues and I'm sure it amplifies when you are talking the big leagues.

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There were definite changes in regards to how other teams approached the Capitals' powerplay (and offense in general) last season. They denied room at the points (and to Ovechkin in general) and focused on blocking or eliminating point shots. There's a little bit of chicken-vs.-egg that happens with the play of Green and Ovechkin last season and the opponent's strategy to stress the points on the PP.

That said, a resurgent season from Backstrom (especially in the goal scoring department) forces teams to take pressure of the points. And if Ovechkin and Green improve, they should be able to create opportunities despite higher pressure at the points (they're certainly talented enough). Green's shot, in general, was lackluster last season. A bigger shot threat from the right point (whether it be from Green, Wideman, or Carlson) will open up a lot of space for other players (particularly Semin and Backstrom on the half-boards).
Not only him but for guys like Laich and Semin as well. Knuble had a slow start last year too.

Again it goes back to execution by the players. They all had down years in the same year..well at least the ones who have done well in the past.

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08-31-2011, 11:37 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
They sure as hell did figure out a major element of the power play. The backdoor pass to Green at the right circles is gone. That's what, 10 ppgs a year? Might not sound like much but ten goals last year would be a drop of almost 4% in pp efficiency -or the difference between 15th overall and 6th overall.
yes, the opposition took the back door pass away from green. however his pp points fell off by only 3pts as green took advantage of the space created to make other plays. last season greens ppg's dropped to just 5 goals. that was, however, because of injuries and just 49 games and not penalty killing strategy.

dont you think if green has been healthy for another 25 or 30 games that he would have more than made up for the 10 pp points you mention?

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08-31-2011, 11:45 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
There were definite changes in regards to how other teams approached the Capitals' powerplay (and offense in general) last season. They denied room at the points (and to Ovechkin in general) and focused on blocking or eliminating point shots. There's a little bit of chicken-vs.-egg that happens with the play of Green and Ovechkin last season and the opponent's strategy to stress the points on the PP.

That said, a resurgent season from Backstrom (especially in the goal scoring department) forces teams to take pressure of the points. And if Ovechkin and Green improve, they should be able to create opportunities despite higher pressure at the points (they're certainly talented enough). Green's shot, in general, was lackluster last season. A bigger shot threat from the right point (whether it be from Green, Wideman, or Carlson) will open up a lot of space for other players (particularly Semin and Backstrom on the half-boards).
i think you correctly recognize that the opposition is going to try and take green and ovechkin away on the power play. i think you falsely read that to mean that the other 3 players, backstrom included, will significantly change the pk strategy. they want the other three players to beat them.

backstrom's bad season made things worse last season. no question, but the main way he can make this season better is by scoring ppg's. given the choice between guarding against green and ovechkin or backstrom, they are going to give backstrom space everytime.

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08-31-2011, 11:51 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i think you correctly recognize that the opposition is going to try and take green and ovechkin away on the power play. i think you falsely read that to mean that the other 3 players, backstrom included, will significantly change the pk strategy. they want the other three players to beat them.

backstrom's bad season made things worse last season. no question, but the main way he can make this season better is by scoring ppg's. given the choice between guarding against green and ovechkin or backstrom, they are going to give backstrom space everytime.
Fine, a resurgent goal scoring season from Backstrom leads to an improved powerplay. Whether the goals come from Backstrom or other players is irrelevant.

Alternatively, Backstrom starting more rotation plays (either by driving the net or skating behind the goal line) could potentially create opportunities.

I'd also be curious to see how effective Johansson's slap-shot is at generating opportunities in front of the net (rebounds or deflections). That could be an effective weapon from the right half-boards.

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08-31-2011, 12:02 PM
  #333
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I dont give a rats ass if Ovi gets time on the point. But not 2 minutes if its not working or will become easily defensed. Coupled with Green in the past largely out for the full 2, that's a lot of wristers. Not very much HQ passing or "quarterbacking" going on. Is it normal for teams to ft. their big guns on both points? Or do you want a passer in there?

Our PP was elite when the players were hungrier and younger, the book not out on it. In shape or not, I believe has no relevance on the PP. You stand there and throw the puck around. Its the least cardio workout the entire 60.

I want to see someone with some playmaking ability tried on the point, someone more polished. Maybe Wideman. I cant stand another year of watching Green and Ovi wrong siding when trying to throw brisk passes around the perimeter, killing the buildup to a potential score. Those two need to be set up to shoot, not pass.

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08-31-2011, 12:17 PM
  #334
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I dont give a rats ass if Ovi gets time on the point. But not 2 minutes if its not working or will become easily defensed. Coupled with Green in the past largely out for the full 2, that's a lot of wristers. Not very much HQ passing or "quarterbacking" going on. Is it normal for teams to ft. their big guns on both points? Or do you want a passer in there?

Our PP was elite when the players were hungrier and younger, the book not out on it. In shape or not, I believe has no relevance on the PP. You stand there and throw the puck around. Its the least cardio workout the entire 60.

I want to see someone with some playmaking ability tried on the point, someone more polished. Maybe Wideman. I cant stand another year of watching Green and Ovi wrong siding when trying to throw brisk passes around the perimeter, killing the buildup to a potential score. Those two need to be set up to shoot, not pass.
most teams that have big guns as in big shots, use them on the point. no point in putting a player that cant score from the perimeter on the perimeter. when that is done the pk lets that player have the puck and they guard the other 4. like in basketball when a high post player that cant shoot from range has the ball. let him have it there. he's no threat.

watch the caps pp in any game you like. when backstrom gets the puck on the right half wall or as high as the right point, the pk backs off of him.

lastly, how much if ov's fail on the pp last season was a result of overall ov fail from whateve was his issue last season. he whiffed or shanked away 10ppg's worth of shots last season. wide open shots with wide open net. shots that were buried in seasons past. was that bad pp strategy or just bad ovechkin?

what does last season's pp look like with the real ov on the ice rather than the imposter from most of last season? same for green who was broken most of last season. same for backstrom. you bag on 8 and 52 for wrong siding guys while the guy on the ice who's primary job is passing was wrong siding guys like clockwork.

my view is that those guys were screwed up on their own and the power play plan and alignment had little to do with it.

wideman, by the way, can pass just like green, but he is a trigger man, not a pass first player.

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08-31-2011, 12:26 PM
  #335
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So regardless if appears broken it really isn't so why fix it eh?

I am getting keep on keeping on from you, and maybe I am wrong, and I just don't understand it.

They need other options than the same old same old. The PP was great 2 seasons ago but when the playoffs came around the Habs had no problem shutting it down, even when the rest of the offense was going fine over the first 4 games. They have so much talent that they can spread it around on the PP and try a lot of different things. If they figure out how to enter the zone regularly under control and then move the puck and themselves crisply it won't matter who is out there and who is playing where the talent will result in tons of PP goals.

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08-31-2011, 12:35 PM
  #336
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So regardless if appears broken it really isn't so why fix it eh?

I am getting keep on keeping on from you, and maybe I am wrong, and I just don't understand it.

They need other options than the same old same old. The PP was great 2 seasons ago the season before that and the half season before that when BB took over but when the playoffs came around Halak had no problem shutting it down, even when the rest of the offense was going fine over the first 4 games. They have so much talent that they can spread it around on the PP and try a lot of different things. If they figure out how to enter the zone regularly under control and then move the puck and themselves crisply it won't matter who is out there and who is playing where the talent will result in tons of PP goals.
Fixed. Lets make no mistake. The Caps had GLORIOUS chances on the PP and Halak just came up huge. If ever there was a time to use the hot goalie excuse that series was one of them.

In fact it is one of the top 3 to 5 playoff goalie performances I have ever seen. Game 6 was absurd and was the best game I've seen the Caps play under Boudreau. I STILL am perplexed about how we lost that game. Insane.

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08-31-2011, 12:48 PM
  #337
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I think BB will be forced to use Wideman/Carlson on the left point.

It will be very natural because we have not enough ice-time for all 3 RD so that's the way to give more time for Wideman instead of using him ~16-18 mins as 3rd pair defender.

So that will force Bruce to use OV differently.

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08-31-2011, 01:13 PM
  #338
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you are very mistakened if you think boudreau is going reduce ovechkin's ice time or role because he wants to fit in more ice time for another player.

if ovechkin plays the point exclusively, boudreau will use green and wideman at the right point.

if ovechkin plays the point with one unit and down low with a second unit, green, wideman and hamrlik will get point playing time.

boudreau will decide what he wants to do with ovechkin first and fill in from there, not the other way around.

carlson's power play time is not a priority.

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08-31-2011, 01:17 PM
  #339
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most teams that have big guns as in big shots, use them on the point. no point in putting a player that cant score from the perimeter on the perimeter. when that is done the pk lets that player have the puck and they guard the other 4. like in basketball when a high post player that cant shoot from range has the ball. let him have it there. he's no threat.
Is that true? I don't know but I sincerely doubt it. Do Crosby, Staal, Perry, D Sedin, Nash, Iginla, Kessel, Kesler, Zetterberg etc play the point?

I don't have a problem with Ovechkin on the point but I don't understand screaming bloody murder when talking about moving him. Especially when last year he had probably the third best lh slapshot on the team behind Arnott and Semin.

The real point problem is on the right side. Green's slapshot is about league average. I've never understood keeping him there after the backdoor pass ceased being an option

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08-31-2011, 01:24 PM
  #340
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Is that true? I don't know but I sincerely doubt it. Do Crosby, Staal, Perry, D Sedin, Nash, Iginla, Kessel, Kesler, Zetterberg etc play the point?
big guns as in big shot. that is the foundation of my comment. crosby, staal, sedin, kesler, kessel and zetterberg are not known as long range gunners and perimeter scorers.

fore instance. crosby does not play the point. malkin does. malkin has the cannon.

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08-31-2011, 01:30 PM
  #341
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Green's slapshot is about league average. I've never understood keeping him there after the backdoor pass ceased being an option
* taking away the backdoor play creates more opportunity for him to get within wrist shot range. thats one reason.
* another reason is the one man breakout part of his game.
* are you suggesting that green should be taken off the power play?

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08-31-2011, 01:56 PM
  #342
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* are you suggesting that green should be taken off the power play?
I'd try Semin and Wideman on the points. Green on the half wall and Ovechkin and backstrom down low.

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08-31-2011, 02:23 PM
  #343
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If Boudreau goes into next season with the same old same old approach to the things that didn't work last year, like the PP, then the season is over before it begins...
amen but its already over because he is still the coach... all this pp talk make me laugh like thats the problem. sry if that sounds like trolling.

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08-31-2011, 02:25 PM
  #344
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Fixed. Lets make no mistake. The Caps had GLORIOUS chances on the PP and Halak just came up huge. If ever there was a time to use the hot goalie excuse that series was one of them.

In fact it is one of the top 3 to 5 playoff goalie performances I have ever seen. Game 6 was absurd and was the best game I've seen the Caps play under Boudreau. I STILL am perplexed about how we lost that game. Insane.
I specifically said:

Quote:
The PP was great 2 seasons ago but when the playoffs came around the Habs had no problem shutting it down, even when the rest of the offense was going fine over the first 4 games.
When the Caps weren't having too much trouble putting the puck past Halak and Price at even strength the Habs were still shutting down the PP.

A PP that always does the same thing, regardless of how well they do it, is going to get shut down in the playoffs when game planning is taken to a much higher level.

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08-31-2011, 02:29 PM
  #345
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I'd try Semin and Wideman on the points. Green on the half wall and Ovechkin and backstrom down low.
you may not remember that semin had been used on the point before ovechkin was tried. it was a failure only because semin was more of a risk than ovechkin from a defensive point of view. this may be why ov plays high and semin down low.

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08-31-2011, 02:29 PM
  #346
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amen but its already over because he is still the coach... all this pp talk make me laugh like thats the problem. sry if that sounds like trolling.
I know Boudreau is more than capable of making changes to how the Caps do things and turning them into a team that can go deeper in the playoffs. Will he? I guess we will see...

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08-31-2011, 02:31 PM
  #347
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you man not remember that semin had been used on the point before ovechkin was tried. it was a failure only because semin was more of a risk than ovechkin from a defensive point of view. this may be why ov plays high and semin down low.
Maybe a coach could tell him to play the puck like he gives a ****? Anyone who watches him knows he's a great defensive player. I don't see the problem.

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08-31-2011, 02:36 PM
  #348
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Maybe a coach could tell him to play the puck like he gives a ****? Anyone who watches him knows he's a great defensive player. I don't see the problem.
Well Semin's 1 year on the PP point was during the Hanlon years so...

But Ovechkin put up 16 PPG and 21 PPA that year from the half wall so it isn't like he can't be effective from somewhere else besides the point on the PP. Semin put up 17 PPG and 21 PPA that year from the point.

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08-31-2011, 02:38 PM
  #349
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Joking aside, I do really think that Semin is the best option on the left point. And I'm completely comfortable with him executing the defense that role requires.

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08-31-2011, 02:39 PM
  #350
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Maybe a coach could tell him to play the puck like he gives a ****? Anyone who watches him knows he's a great defensive player. I don't see the problem.
The problem is when you turn the puck over using fancydanglesauce on the point, it's a really good scoring chance the other way. I had quite an adjustment my first season as a defenseman (didn't help that my fancydanglesauce is weak) and gave up a lot of opportunities that way. If it's a choice between Semin or Ovechkin on the point I'll take Ovechkin every day. Ovechkin plays through the puck whereas Semin plays around it. High risk/high reward is not what I want on the point.

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