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Offseason Movement Thread III (Acq./Rstr. Bldg./Cap Mgt.)

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Old
09-01-2011, 12:29 AM
  #376
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
A players has to show that he has the ability to not only successfully man the PP point, but also do it better than his teammates. It's clear Alzner (based upon coaching decisions) is NOT better offensively than Green, Wideman, Carlson...just to start. IMO, you can add Hamrlik to that list too.

More offseason reaching from the fans still grasping at the straws of failure.
remember this whole line of thinking comes from the base thought of getting ovechkin off the point. that stretches the fantasy further. alzner is a better choice than ovechkin at something on offense. or....that bruce is too stuck in his ways to do something as revolutionary as alzner on the power play

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09-01-2011, 12:31 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Yeah, dude was captain of a Canadian World Juniors gold medal winner. He's certainly got the leadership pedigree.

And I think there's an effective offensive game in him that can be developed, but he shouldn't be playing on one of the top 2 PP units on a team trying to have the most effective PP possible, given the personnel. I'd gladly give up the half a dozen or so shorthanded goals resulting from less responsible guys playing the PP if it mean the PP was humming along at 25%.

I would like to see him get mop-up PP time in cases like double minors, majors, misconducts, etc. But only for reasons of developing Alzner's game, and resting the other guys.
But the only reason this is a conversation is because the PP sucks balls despite all the good players given all the time they need. Team Russia at 2010 olympics syndrome.

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09-01-2011, 12:34 AM
  #378
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im not sure how giving alzner 2nd unit pp time to help him develop/add a different dynamic to the pp and move ovechkin from a place on the ice he has not very effective to a place on the ice where he could be more effective can be interpreted like that. i guess by your logic we should just keep ovechkin out there for 40 minutes a game because will chamberlain did it and they are both awesome.

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09-01-2011, 12:35 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
But the only reason this is a conversation is because the PP sucks balls despite all the good players given all the time they need. Team Russia at 2010 olympics syndrome.
It sucked balls last season, when the Caps' best player, and #1 center had the worst offensive seasons of their careers, and the top puck-mover on D had a 70% decline in production.

When they actually played well the season before, the PP was a dominant unit.

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09-01-2011, 12:35 AM
  #380
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the part you are missing is that the main players all sucked balls last season. it wasnt just the power play. ovechkin and backstrom blew. green was hurt most of the time. laich had an off season. knuble had a slow start.

as i recall, in an effort to get ovechkin going, boudreau used him all over the power play without much success. that was largely because ov was not having much success anytime.

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09-01-2011, 12:36 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
im not sure how giving alzner 2nd unit pp time to help him develop/add a different dynamic to the pp and move ovechkin from a place on the ice he has not very effective to a place on the ice where he could be more effective can be interpreted like that. i guess by your logic we should just keep ovechkin out there for 40 minutes a game because will chamberlain did it and they are both awesome.
Ovechkin not very effective on the point? I take it you started watching the Caps last season?

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09-01-2011, 12:39 AM
  #382
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Obviously the only option is this...
Bench Ovy, put Poti on LTIR, trade Schultz, and put Hendricks and Sjogren on the points on PP1.

Success!!!

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09-01-2011, 12:43 AM
  #383
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Yeah, I usually try to deal with things as they are. Maybe we should bring Chris Clark back to make space for Ovechkin?

Ovechkin's slapper is great but not as good as his wrister. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees with that. His ability to crash the net with the puck and work from inside the circles is also superior to his ability to effortlessly glide over the ice Niedermayer style. Putting him in a position where he can have more opportunities to use his wrister and use his size to throw people out of position while seems like a better use of his talents. Oh, and the primary thing Bruce did with him when the point wasn't working was have him screen/harass the goalie Knuble style, which I'm not suggesting he should do here. If it turns out he's not effective a the sideboards, we can always throw him back on the point. It's like you people think these configurations are set in stone. Well, Bruce does at least.

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09-01-2011, 12:50 AM
  #384
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If the performance last season is "things as they are", then we're ****ed. The Caps have the highest paid player in the NHL who's a 30-goal, PPG offensive producer with a sub-par defensive game, and a #1 center who's a 65 point player. And both are on decade-long contracts.

Ovechkin's been extremely effective on the point in the past, and the PP deadly as a unit, with the same personnel. It's foolish to think they couldn't be again.

And for the record, I'd like to see two legitimate units, with Ovechkin on the half-wall on the first and Semin on the second. Hamrlik-Green and Wideman-Carlson on the points. Doesn't mean Ovechkin on the point can't work.

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09-01-2011, 12:58 AM
  #385
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So we agree more or less on the configurations. I don't think the PP is going to be something that impacts us making the playoffs at this stage. You yourself said that you'd like to see Alzner get more offensive responsibilities in the future. Why not give him time at the beginning on the 2nd unit, if he shows an unexpected aptitude we get another weapon, if not we can always plug one of the other 6 PPQB options in his spot . At the very least he might become a better two-way player at even strength as his offensive awareness is increased. It's working for Staal.

Personally I'd try to control Hamrlik's minutes until the playoffs, especially during the 1st half of the season. He's still pretty effective but got completely gassed for Montreal by the spring.

And yeah, Ovechkin has been effective, but there's no reason to think he couldn't be more effective in a position that makes more use of his main talents and involves him doing much less long distance skating.

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09-01-2011, 01:09 AM
  #386
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I wouldn't give Alzner 2nd unit PP time because he's not best-suited for the role. There are at least 6 healthy defensemen (not including Poti) between Washington and Hershey that are better suited to the PP point than Alzner. The best PP two PP units certainly don't include Alzner. For a team trying to win a Cup, I think they should play to their strengths, and try to have the best PP they can.

Play him in the mop-up PP time like I said, and if he does well in that time, gradually increase his role next year. His offensive game is something that's going to take several seasons to develop. He's young enough that he can be eased into it.

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09-01-2011, 01:44 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
I wouldn't give Alzner 2nd unit PP time because he's not best-suited for the role. There are at least 6 healthy defensemen (not including Poti) between Washington and Hershey that are better suited to the PP point than Alzner. The best PP two PP units certainly don't include Alzner. For a team trying to win a Cup, I think they should play to their strengths, and try to have the best PP they can.

Play him in the mop-up PP time like I said, and if he does well in that time, gradually increase his role next year. His offensive game is something that's going to take several seasons to develop. He's young enough that he can be eased into it.
How long does that last before "easing" into it stunts whatever offensive growth potential he had?

EDIT: For the record, I'm not saying that time is soon, or that you're in any way ignoring the possibility, I just wonder at what point he has to start getting some legitimate PP time if the offensive side is there. When he's 24? 25?

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09-01-2011, 02:02 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by HTFN View Post
How long does that last before "easing" into it stunts whatever offensive growth potential he had?

EDIT: For the record, I'm not saying that time is soon, or that you're in any way ignoring the possibility, I just wonder at what point he has to start getting some legitimate PP time if the offensive side is there. When he's 24? 25?
I don't think there's ever a point where easing him into stunts his growth. Why would it? He's going to have to work on the offensive parts of his game for even strength play anyway, so it's not like the talent will just disappear. There's plenty of guys that don't emerge offensively until later in their careers. Dan Boyle didn't break out until he was 26, Chara was 25, Wideman was 24, Kronwall was 26, and the list goes on.

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Old
09-01-2011, 09:21 AM
  #389
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I for one am looking back to last year when discussing our PP woes. Our PP sucked. You heard Bruce on 24/7 showing his hand and plan, shoot! With Green and Ovi on the point, they need to. I think they feel pressure to make some quality plays. Bruce needs to feed that instinct, not fight it.

Wideman gave us an injection of life. Carlson has earned more time. Green should be getting more polished QBing our PP. Its pointless to argue Alzner right now on the PP for the future with 3 RD and 1LD Hammer that will help out.

Re: Alzner and LAST YEAR, I was talking more than PP's. I am talking late in games down a goal, yanking Ovi from the front line attack to go retreive clears. When he needs a goal, he moves Ovi to LD. It largely hasnt worked for an entire year. It shouldnt take a rocket scientist to figure out why it may not work.

It shakes up the top scoring line, shakes up your D pairings, and I think overworks your teams best scorer retreiving clears.


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Old
09-01-2011, 09:28 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
The Caps have Green, Hamrlik, Wideman, Carlson, and Ovechkin (along with McNeil and Orlov if injuries strike) for the PP point. There's absolutely no reason to give Alzner substantial PP time, and I'm as big of a fan of his as you'll find.
This. If some injuries to the guys listed happened I would be fine with giving Alzner a little run on the PP but there is absolutely no reason to come out of the gate what way.

Alzner is going to get plenty of ice time playing against other team's top lines and as a first pairing PK guy. He doesn't need PP time heaped on that right now.

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09-01-2011, 03:33 PM
  #391
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I'd put Laich on the point before Alzner at this stage.

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09-01-2011, 03:52 PM
  #392
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I'd put Laich on the point before Alzner at this stage.
Definitley. He was good at the point.

But whats with all this Alzner talk at the point? We have guys like Green, Ovechkin, Hamrlik, Carlson, Wideman etc etc who are all better offensively right now. And we are trying to win right now not experiment and give Alzner more responsibility than he already has with being on the PK and shutdown dpair.

I suspect this is "Backup quarterback syndrome"....the backup quarterback on any NFL team is the most popular player to fans when they want change for the sake of change.

There is a reason why the starter is in there tho and in most cases its justified.

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09-01-2011, 04:03 PM
  #393
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Definitley. He was good at the point.

But whats with all this Alzner talk at the point? We have guys like Green, Ovechkin, Hamrlik, Carlson, Wideman etc etc who are all better offensively right now. And we are trying to win right now not experiment and give Alzner more responsibility than he already has with being on the PK and shutdown dpair.

I suspect this is "Backup quarterback syndrome"....the backup quarterback on any NFL team is the most popular player to fans when they want change for the sake of change.

There is a reason why the starter is in there tho and in most cases its justified.
No idea how the Alzner talk started. However, given that the Capitals are a very, very long shot to miss the playoffs, I'm fine with experimenting for even the whole first half of the season. No harm done.

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09-01-2011, 04:15 PM
  #394
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No idea how the Alzner talk started. However, given that the Capitals are a very, very long shot to miss the playoffs, I'm fine with experimenting for even the whole first half of the season. No harm done.
No actually I disagree. Im not worried about missing the playoffs but we want everyone going into the playoffs at their best. Last year they just turned it on towards the end and never really got going even then.

I think the fluke series vs Montreal really hampered their confidence adn the next season they decided to coast for a while and that didn't work too well when crunch time came around.

To develop consistentcy I want them to shoot to go 82-0 or perhaps 73-9 (single digit losses). Play each game like they want it bad and lets see if it carries them thru the playoffs...cuz sometimes if you wait til the playoffs to "turn on the switch" you find that it doesn't work.

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09-01-2011, 04:20 PM
  #395
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No actually I disagree. Im not worried about missing the playoffs but we want everyone going into the playoffs at their best. Last year they just turned it on towards the end and never really got going even then.

I think the fluke series vs Montreal really hampered their confidence adn the next season they decided to coast for a while and that didn't work too well when crunch time came around.

To develop consistentcy I want them to shoot to go 82-0 or perhaps 73-9 (single digit losses). Play each game like they want it bad and lets see if it carries them thru the playoffs...cuz sometimes if you wait til the playoffs to "turn on the switch" you find that it doesn't work.
I'm not suggesting they shouldn't try hard, rather that there are a lot of new components to the team and it's probably worth seeing how they work best with the rest of the team. Half a season is plenty of time to build consistency. I am not on board with switching up the lines so frequently after the trade deadline as has happened recently.

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09-02-2011, 03:00 AM
  #396
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According to Russian press Kugryshev signed with CSKA Moscow of the KHL

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09-02-2011, 03:08 AM
  #397
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I think I like it.

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09-02-2011, 03:41 AM
  #398
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CSKA website confirms http://cska-hockey.ru/news/Kugryshev...haetsya_v_CSKA

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09-02-2011, 08:56 AM
  #399
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I think that is awesome. I didn't see him getting time on Hershey or being sent down to the ECHL. Hope that he does well in the KHL and one day returns to play with Ovi.

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09-02-2011, 10:51 AM
  #400
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dchesnokov: I am told the Kugryshev deal is not a "rent" type, he will sign a true valid contract in the #KHL. The #caps will retain his #NHL rights.

It's a two-year deal but will the years of the remaining ELC still tick off? Either way, good. It's where he should have been the past three seasons. It would have been more demanding overall.

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