HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

my idea to solve the cba

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-26-2004, 10:08 AM
  #26
Other Dave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New and improved in TO
Posts: 2,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jol
Draft age, I think it was court decision which allowed 18 years old
to be drafted (right to work or something).
I would think that such a court decision would have been a strong precedent for the current NFL draft-age case, which makes me believe that there was no such court decision in the NHL. I'd love to be corrected, though, since this is a topic I'm interested in learning more about.

Quote:
I have been wondering about free agency (restricted) and when will some player sue NHL and get total free agency (after contract expires you will be
unrestricted free agent like in Europe).
This will not happen, because free agency restrictions is one of the things that's negotiated between the players' union and the NHL. In other words, restrictions on their right to work where they like is something that all NHLers tacitly agree to when they join the union.

Other Dave is offline  
Old
04-26-2004, 10:28 AM
  #27
jol
Registered User
 
jol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Miami Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
I would think that such a court decision would have been a strong precedent for the current NFL draft-age case, which makes me believe that there was no such court decision in the NHL. I'd love to be corrected, though, since this is a topic I'm interested in learning more about.
Here is something about Ken Linseman and his lawsuit against
NHL, although in Canada. The suit was dropped.

http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1978/78007.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
This will not happen, because free agency restrictions is one of the things that's negotiated between the players' union and the NHL. In other words, restrictions on their right to work where they like is something that all NHLers tacitly agree to when they join the union.
Do you have to join NHLPA when you start playing in NHL?

I'm sure that in Europe soccer players have their unions also but
when court (EU) decided that laws are laws and players got right
to seek employment after their contracts had expired.
Anyways I'm sure if any player challenges the current free agent
restrictions he would be an ex-NHL player.

jol is offline  
Old
04-26-2004, 08:45 PM
  #28
free0717
Registered User
 
free0717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Old Bridge, NJ
Posts: 2,320
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
I would think that such a court decision would have been a strong precedent for the current NFL draft-age case, which makes me believe that there was no such court decision in the NHL. I'd love to be corrected, though, since this is a topic I'm interested in learning more about.



This will not happen, because free agency restrictions is one of the things that's negotiated between the players' union and the NHL. In other words, restrictions on their right to work where they like is something that all NHLers tacitly agree to when they join the union.
Can the draft age be collectivley bargained?

free0717 is offline  
Old
04-26-2004, 08:51 PM
  #29
free0717
Registered User
 
free0717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Old Bridge, NJ
Posts: 2,320
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. X
Probably not, but profitability is not the only way to measure the health of a franchise. The owner has to decide why he wants a team, does he want a trophy to put on the mantle or is it an investment?
I agree alot of sports franchises are some billionaires toy, however most billionaires did not become billionaires by losing money. Most are happy to break even because history has shown even by breaking even, The appreciation of a sports franchise is astronomical. Especially in the NFL

free0717 is offline  
Old
04-27-2004, 10:49 AM
  #30
Motown Beatdown
Need a slump buster
 
Motown Beatdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Indianapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 8,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717
Can the draft age be collectivley bargained?


Thats what the mess in the NFL is all about right now. So far the courts have said yes. Clarrett has one more appeal though.

Motown Beatdown is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 10:45 AM
  #31
AvsGuy
Registered User
 
AvsGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Regina, Sk
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
My Idea for the CBA

feel free to shoot this down if it doesn't work, it just crossed my mind:

the NHL should cancel all existing contracts, and the new rule will be that contracts cannot be signed by players for longer than one year. in essence, every player is an UFA at the end of each season. the player will be awarded a new contract based on his performance the past season. if the player is not wanted back on the team, or does not want to return to the team, another team can trade for his rights and sign him. i think this would help prevent Holik-esque signings, and therefore somewhat minimize the problems with the current CBA.

THOUGHTS?

AvsGuy is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 10:51 AM
  #32
Other Dave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New and improved in TO
Posts: 2,025
vCash: 500
Bad for small-market teams that otherwise own the rights of their players until age 31. Hossa was signed for four years, and has put up excellent numbers every year of that contract. Imagine if he was allowed to renegotiate every year? Imagine if all the Sens were up for renegotiation every year? Yuck!

Other Dave is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 11:06 AM
  #33
FleuryFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 25
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsGuy
feel free to shoot this down if it doesn't work, it just crossed my mind:

the NHL should cancel all existing contracts, and the new rule will be that contracts cannot be signed by players for longer than one year. in essence, every player is an UFA at the end of each season. the player will be awarded a new contract based on his performance the past season. if the player is not wanted back on the team, or does not want to return to the team, another team can trade for his rights and sign him. i think this would help prevent Holik-esque signings, and therefore somewhat minimize the problems with the current CBA.

THOUGHTS?
It is also illegal. You cannot just cancel someones contract. The NHL contracts are legally binding, and as such you must either play them out or be bought out for 2/3 of the contract price. Besides the fact that making everyone an UFA would cause tremendous havoc amongst GM's. An overloaded market would just add to the duties of general managers, which obviously would not be a good thing. They have problems keeping salaries down now, I can't imagine how bad it would be if they had to do more work, scouting, analyzing, ect.

FleuryFan is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 11:14 AM
  #34
Goibniu
Registered User
 
Goibniu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lurking around
Country: United States
Posts: 31
vCash: 500
A better Idea might be to just eliminate the 2/3 buyout. Allow the teams to waive a player and if they are not picked up by another team, the player should be able to be released outright making them a free agent. That way, if a player is not performing to the level of thier contract, they can in effect be fired.
But the NHLPA will never go for it.

Goibniu is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 11:17 AM
  #35
Unknownbutfamous
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 449
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Unknownbutfamous
I think the NHL should allow all clubs to reneogociate the player contracts who are under contract for this coming up year. The max a player can get is 5 mill. The salary cap would be set at 40 mill. Teams that go over would have to pay what they go over.

Unknownbutfamous is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 11:19 AM
  #36
Slats432
Registered User
 
Slats432's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsGuy
feel free to shoot this down if it doesn't work, it just crossed my mind:

the NHL should cancel all existing contracts, and the new rule will be that contracts cannot be signed by players for longer than one year. in essence, every player is an UFA at the end of each season. the player will be awarded a new contract based on his performance the past season. if the player is not wanted back on the team, or does not want to return to the team, another team can trade for his rights and sign him. i think this would help prevent Holik-esque signings, and therefore somewhat minimize the problems with the current CBA.

THOUGHTS?
Why would you trade for the rights of a UFA?

Slats432 is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 11:51 AM
  #37
FleuryFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 25
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithmp
A better Idea might be to just eliminate the 2/3 buyout. Allow the teams to waive a player and if they are not picked up by another team, the player should be able to be released outright making them a free agent. That way, if a player is not performing to the level of thier contract, they can in effect be fired.
But the NHLPA will never go for it.
The 2/3 buyout rule is in the CBA. Which means it would have to be negotiated out of the CBA, which is very unlikely. I cannot imagine Goodenow giving that up. That is a great benefit to his players and basically ensures his players contracts are guarenteed. Having the ability to just waive a player= not guaranteed contracts= never going to happen.

FleuryFan is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 12:33 PM
  #38
AvsGuy
Registered User
 
AvsGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Regina, Sk
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bachul
Why would you trade for the rights of a UFA?
i dunno, depends on the player. scenario:

Milan Hejduk puts up 42 goals and 45 assists for 87 points. a dandy year. but like all players, he is an UFA at year's end. the Avs offer him a $6 million contract for one year, but he rejects it and decides to look for other offers. the Maple Leafs have a $7 million deal on the table for Milan, and Milan accepts the offer, so the Maple Leafs trade their 2nd and 3rd round picks in the draft for the rights to sign Milan Hejduk.

in essence, the Avs lose Hejduk, but gain $6 million to spend on another player(s). the Leafs lose $7 million, and 2 draft picks, but they get their man.

AvsGuy is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 12:39 PM
  #39
AvsGuy
Registered User
 
AvsGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Regina, Sk
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
Bad for small-market teams that otherwise own the rights of their players until age 31. Hossa was signed for four years, and has put up excellent numbers every year of that contract. Imagine if he was allowed to renegotiate every year? Imagine if all the Sens were up for renegotiation every year? Yuck!
i was thinking of that too. something would have to be worked out, since the Ranger's would just buy every player the Sens couldn't afford. it's just an idea, and there would have to be a whole shwack of arbitration to make it work. what we have now is an unhappy NHL. some players are not making what they should (ex. Patrick Elias of 2001 - 96 pts, $750,000), while other's are grossly overpaid (see Holik - $9 million...for what?). a system of 1-year contracts would to some point ensure that players are consistently getting paid what they are worth. and for GM's, if you want to maintain a competitive team with good players on your roster, be ready to ante up.

one idea is putting a cap on the maximum player salary. why not make it something like $8 million? that way, a player like Hossa would have to be out of his mind to demand more than $6.5-$7 million per year. i know that doesn't sound to good to a GM's ears, but that's fair value for a player of Hossa's caliber, and you have to give to get.

AvsGuy is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 12:57 PM
  #40
Slats432
Registered User
 
Slats432's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsGuy
i dunno, depends on the player. scenario:

Milan Hejduk puts up 42 goals and 45 assists for 87 points. a dandy year. but like all players, he is an UFA at year's end. the Avs offer him a $6 million contract for one year, but he rejects it and decides to look for other offers. the Maple Leafs have a $7 million deal on the table for Milan, and Milan accepts the offer, so the Maple Leafs trade their 2nd and 3rd round picks in the draft for the rights to sign Milan Hejduk.

in essence, the Avs lose Hejduk, but gain $6 million to spend on another player(s). the Leafs lose $7 million, and 2 draft picks, but they get their man.
Maybe you should clarify what you mean. If a player is an Unrestricted Free Agent.(UFA) he can sign anywhere with no compensation to the other team. If he is UFA then you don't have to trade for him. He is free.

Slats432 is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 01:16 PM
  #41
AvsGuy
Registered User
 
AvsGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Regina, Sk
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bachul
Maybe you should clarify what you mean. If a player is an Unrestricted Free Agent.(UFA) he can sign anywhere with no compensation to the other team. If he is UFA then you don't have to trade for him. He is free.
i guess i meant that under this idea for the CBA, the definition of UFA would change. when a player has his choice of destinations with no compensation and no limits, you get players like Bobby Holik signing with you know who for $9 million per season.

AvsGuy is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 01:18 PM
  #42
Slats432
Registered User
 
Slats432's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsGuy
i guess i meant that under this idea for the CBA, the definition of UFA would change. when a player has his choice of destinations with no compensation and no limits, you get players like Bobby Holik signing with you know who for $9 million per season.
I am sorry, you are losing me. What you are talking about is making every player a RFA(restricted free agent) indefinitely. That isn't going to work, the UFA age will go down before it went up.

Slats432 is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 01:24 PM
  #43
AvsGuy
Registered User
 
AvsGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Regina, Sk
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bachul
I am sorry, you are losing me. What you are talking about is making every player a RFA(restricted free agent) indefinitely. That isn't going to work, the UFA age will go down before it went up.
scrap the UFA thing man. scrap ages, scrap free agent rules. start over. every player signs with their team for one year. if both player and team agree that the season was a success, the player and team work out a contract for next season. if player or team does not want to continue the contract for next year, the team still owns the players rights until he is able to come to an agreement with another team. If he does come to an agreement with another team, his rights must be traded to that team so that the signing process can continue. follow?

AvsGuy is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 01:39 PM
  #44
Slats432
Registered User
 
Slats432's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsGuy
scrap the UFA thing man. scrap ages, scrap free agent rules. start over. every player signs with their team for one year. if both player and team agree that the season was a success, the player and team work out a contract for next season. if player or team does not want to continue the contract for next year, the team still owns the players rights until he is able to come to an agreement with another team. If he does come to an agreement with another team, his rights must be traded to that team so that the signing process can continue. follow?
That is indefinite Restricted Free Agency. If the owners fought for that we wouldn't have hockey until 2007. You are saying the players have no rights.

Slats432 is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 02:01 PM
  #45
AvsGuy
Registered User
 
AvsGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Regina, Sk
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bachul
That is indefinite Restricted Free Agency. If the owners fought for that we wouldn't have hockey until 2007. You are saying the players have no rights.
technically you're right, but you're missing the point.

does it take away the players right to have a terrible year and still make $9 million? Yes. does it take away the players right to bail for better teams, ala Paul Kariya? Yes.

does the player have the right to have a good year and make more money next year because of it? Yes. does it give the player the right to show team loyalty, and to earn the respect of the fans and management? Yes. Does it give the player the right to EARN his money like the rest of us do? Yes.

AvsGuy is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 02:03 PM
  #46
hockeyGod
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,123
vCash: 500
The NHL should of never allowed contracts to be signed past the CBA. This would make the new CBA much easier IMO.

hockeyGod is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 02:23 PM
  #47
Slats432
Registered User
 
Slats432's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsGuy
technically you're right, but you're missing the point.

does it take away the players right to have a terrible year and still make $9 million? Yes. does it take away the players right to bail for better teams, ala Paul Kariya? Yes.

does the player have the right to have a good year and make more money next year because of it? Yes. does it give the player the right to show team loyalty, and to earn the respect of the fans and management? Yes. Does it give the player the right to EARN his money like the rest of us do? Yes.
No, I get what you are saying....in your scenerio the players get ZERO rights. This would put the NHL and NHLPA in a worse bargaining position than they are now. Sounds like the reason the NHLPA started in the first place.

Slats432 is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 02:31 PM
  #48
AvsGuy
Registered User
 
AvsGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Regina, Sk
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bachul
No, I get what you are saying....in your scenerio the players get ZERO rights. This would put the NHL and NHLPA in a worse bargaining position than they are now. Sounds like the reason the NHLPA started in the first place.
ok, so aside from the fact that you feel my idea gives the players no rights, what is wrong with my idea? frankly, the player's rights have gone way too far, IMO. that's what has become the problem with the NHL.

AvsGuy is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 02:33 PM
  #49
MacDaddy TLC*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Leafin La Vida Loca
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsGuy
the NHL should cancel all existing contracts, and the new rule will be that contracts cannot be signed by players for longer than one year. in essence, every player is an UFA at the end of each season.
THOUGHTS?
C-H-A-O-S!!!!!!!! (Fans would love it due to player movement, but when the Leafs and Rangers are able to bury the competition, then the REAL whining would begin)

MacDaddy TLC* is offline  
Old
06-11-2004, 02:45 PM
  #50
AvsGuy
Registered User
 
AvsGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Regina, Sk
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDaddy Version 1.3
C-H-A-O-S!!!!!!!! (Fans would love it due to player movement, but when the Leafs and Rangers are able to bury the competition, then the REAL whining would begin)
but the Leafs and Rags would have to trade for the players rights to sign them. that's the catch. at what point to you trade everything you have for a few good players? add a bit to the price, and the rich teams might not be so eager to bite...

AvsGuy is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:00 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.