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Sabres' payroll likely rising...

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08-05-2004, 01:46 PM
  #1
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Sabres' payroll likely rising...

http://buffalonews.com/sports/teamsleagues/sabres.asp

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08-05-2004, 02:18 PM
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"I suspect one or two will settle, and we'll end up going to arbitration with as many as three or four," Sabres General Manager Darcy Regier said.
Brown will get signed before his hearing, I bet Briere is the other hopeful. They are probably trying to lock Briere up for 3 or 4 years.

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08-05-2004, 08:17 PM
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Biron made $2.2 million last season. He went 26-18-5 with a 2.52 goals-against average, a .913 save percentage and two shutouts.
One comparison is Nashville Predators goalie Tomas Vokoun. He signed a contract Wednesday that will pay him $3 million next season, up from $1.2 million in 2003-04. Vokoun went 34-29-10 with a 2.53 GAA, .909 save percentage and three shutouts.
How many Sabres fans would rather have Vokoun instead of Biron?
Another example of how Sabres fans ALWAYS seem to think that "the grass is greener on the other side", when it isn't the case many times, (not just with goalies).
Vokoun was an all-star this past season because of a solid 1st half, Biron would be a 3-time all-star if he had his 2nd half performances in the 1st half of the year.

Where's LaLa???

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08-05-2004, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
How many Sabres fans would rather have Vokoun instead of Biron?
Another example of how Sabres fans ALWAYS seem to think that "the grass is greener on the other side", when it isn't the case many times, (not just with goalies).
Vokoun was an all-star this past season because of a solid 1st half, Biron would be a 3-time all-star if he had his 2nd half performances in the 1st half of the year.

Where's LaLa???

Vokoun lead the Preds to the playoffs in his first full year as the starter. Biron?

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08-05-2004, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
How many Sabres fans would rather have Vokoun instead of Biron?
Another example of how Sabres fans ALWAYS seem to think that "the grass is greener on the other side", when it isn't the case many times, (not just with goalies).
Vokoun was an all-star this past season because of a solid 1st half, Biron would be a 3-time all-star if he had his 2nd half performances in the 1st half of the year.

Where's LaLa???
I'd take Vokun over Biron. In a heartbeat. Be surprised to see Biron get over 2.75/ year

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08-05-2004, 08:38 PM
  #6
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i'd take vokun

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Old
08-05-2004, 08:44 PM
  #7
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I would probably take Vokun too, although he has shown his fair share of inconsistency. Its really close though IMO, if only Biron could perform at a higher level in the 1st half. Like Fan-of-#9 said though, if Biron played as well as he did in the first half rather then the secon, he would have made the All-Star Team...

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08-05-2004, 08:45 PM
  #8
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Count me in for Vokoun, too. In this case, I think the grass is greener on the other side.

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08-05-2004, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruckus007
Vokoun lead the Preds to the playoffs in his first full year as the starter. Biron?
So I guess with his numbers (which are not better than Biron's), he would have led us to the playoffs this season too?

Statistically, Biron's first year as a starter was much, much better than Vokoun's.

Before you claim that Vokoun led the Preds to the playoffs, realize that there were many other factors that contributed to their success. Vokoun won 7 games in which he posted a SV% under .900, Biron won only 3 under the same circumstances. Vokoun is lucky that he's not on our team, because his job would be in jeopardy right now.

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08-05-2004, 09:03 PM
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I'd take Vokoun's supporting cast over Biron's.

Walker, TooToo, Sullivan, Delmore... whoops!

Seriously though, imagine if Legwand and Hartnell weren't developing so slow, imagine if Arkhipov wasn't such a bum. I used to question their drafting 10 fold but now they're a team Buffalo is trying to build and a team that is fun as hell to watch.

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Old
08-05-2004, 09:04 PM
  #11
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I'd like to add that Biron finished 12th in the NHL in wins, and he only started 49 games...

Vokoun has proven nothing IMO. His career record is 98-129-35 with 12 shutouts in 279 career games, he's had only had 1 good HALF in his career. Biron on the other hand in 246 games is 101-103-25 and has 17 shutouts (with 3 GREAT HALVES).

"The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side"

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08-05-2004, 09:17 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
So I guess with his numbers (which are not better than Biron's), he would have led us to the playoffs this season too?

Statistically, Biron's first year as a starter was much, much better than Vokoun's.

Before you claim that Vokoun led the Preds to the playoffs, realize that there were many other factors that contributed to their success. Vokoun won 7 games in which he posted a SV% under .900, Biron won only 3 under the same circumstances. Vokoun is lucky that he's not on our team, because his job would be in jeopardy right now.
I doubt Vokoun's job would be in jeopardy. He's done something Biron hasn't been able to: he's better now than when he entered the NHL.

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08-05-2004, 09:59 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Ruckus007
I doubt Vokoun's job would be in jeopardy. He's done something Biron hasn't been able to: he's better now than when he entered the NHL.
So what you are saying is that because Vokoun put together 1 solid half of a season, he is better than Biron who has done that 3 times in his career? If Biron had a bad 2nd half the way Vokoun did, his job would be in jeopardy in Buffalo. With Biron you say that 1 good half + 1 bad half = 1 bad season, with Vokoun it equals a good season? Why is that? Because he had a team in front of him that was able to manufacture wins eventhough he wasn't at his best? Or was it because his good half was the 1st half?
Being an All-Star and making the playoffs does not make Vokoun better than Biron because :
a) Vokoun did not have a consistent year nor was it better than Biron's best year in 01-02.
b) Nashville's 03-04 team was good enough to make the playoffs with a goalie who posted average numbers, that's a fact.

There is not one stat you can pull that favours Vokoun over Biron, whether you compare their best seasons, or you compare their careers, nothing favours Vokoun.

As far as I'm concerned if Biron had a decent team in front of him in 01-02, and he made the playoffs he would be regarded completely differently by all hockey fans. He would have made his mark in the league in his first season as a starter and things may have been different for him today.

Biron 01-02
31-28-10
2.22 GAA
.915 SV%

Vokoun 03-04
34-29-10
2.53 GAA
.909 SV%

I guess Biron's 03-04 season was All-Star worthy too...
26-18-5
2.52 GAA
.913 SV%

Is there a reason why no other Sabres fans recognize that Biron won 26 games last season in 52 appearances? Better winning % than Vokoun that's for sure.

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08-05-2004, 10:17 PM
  #14
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Last off-season there was a poll between Biron and Vokoun and I was castrated for picking Biron.Even though Biron is a bonehead at times,he is still a top 15,probably 12 goalie in the league IMO.He's a workhorse.

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08-05-2004, 10:27 PM
  #15
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Vokoun's second half and Biron's second half are the result of two different things. Vokoun was worn out because Nashville had no competant backup. If Trotz could rest Vokoun (Vokoun played 69 and 73 games the last two years with Lasak and Mason behind him, Dunham never more than 58 with Vokoun), and his past handling of the goaltending situation suggests with a competant backup he will, Vokoun would undoubtedly have had better numbers in the second half. Biron's consistancy problems aren't the result of workload. They're the result of Biron not being a consistant goaltender.

I don't buy into your stats argument with Biron vs Noronen, what makes you think I'm going to do it with Biron vs Vokoun? Try this: there's not one skill that favors Biron over Vokoun. Stick that in your fife and smoke it.

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08-06-2004, 03:03 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruckus007
Vokoun's second half and Biron's second half are the result of two different things. Vokoun was worn out because Nashville had no competant backup. If Trotz could rest Vokoun (Vokoun played 69 and 73 games the last two years with Lasak and Mason behind him, Dunham never more than 58 with Vokoun), and his past handling of the goaltending situation suggests with a competant backup he will, Vokoun would undoubtedly have had better numbers in the second half. Biron's consistancy problems aren't the result of workload. They're the result of Biron not being a consistant goaltender.

I don't buy into your stats argument with Biron vs Noronen, what makes you think I'm going to do it with Biron vs Vokoun? Try this: there's not one skill that favors Biron over Vokoun. Stick that in your fife and smoke it.
I coudn't disagree more with every point you're making...honestly. Why is there no doubt in your mind that Vokouns poor 2nd half is a direct result of fatigue? That's over the top, and completely baseless.

How do you figure that Biron doesn't have the skill that Vokoun has? Because the grass is always greener on the other side....no matter what? How many games have you seen Vokoun play? I think you are basing your statements simply on the fact that Nashville made the playoffs and because Vokoun was an All-Star...and ofcourse because he's a goalie that plays outside of Buffalo....

Vokoun is no better than Biron....NONE.

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08-06-2004, 03:16 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
Vokoun is no better than Biron....NONE.
Statistically and in comparison with other NHL goalies, I think you are right. But considering Biron's inability to retain the #1 job after three seasons of having it practically handed to him, failure to lead the team to a post-season birth, and his enduring habit of allowing pathetically soft goals at crucial moments, I'll take Vokoun over Marty without hesitation or afterthought.

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08-06-2004, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Takeo21
Statistically and in comparison with other NHL goalies, I think you are right. But considering Biron's inability to retain the #1 job after three seasons of having it practically handed to him, failure to lead the team to a post-season birth, and his enduring habit of allowing pathetically soft goals at crucial moments, I'll take Vokoun over Marty without hesitation or afterthought.
Why does evryone pin the "no playoffs" on Biron? Would you pin the Panthers "no playoffs" on Luongo. Biron has been better than Vokoun. He has better numbers in everyway you could possibly use to compare goalies. Higher win %, better GAA and a better SV%. If you put them on the other's team, Biron would have taken a team to the playoffs too.

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08-07-2004, 11:26 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Takeo21
Statistically and in comparison with other NHL goalies, I think you are right. But considering Biron's inability to retain the #1 job after three seasons of having it practically handed to him, failure to lead the team to a post-season birth, and his enduring habit of allowing pathetically soft goals at crucial moments, I'll take Vokoun over Marty without hesitation or afterthought.
You're way off...

Biron has more of a habit of making huge saves at crucial moments rather than allowing soft goals at crucial times. Biron had his best season when he was the undisputed starter from the get go in 01-02. He hasn't been given that chance since then, and he has struggled because of that. It's time to send Noronen packing and let Marty show what he can do with the whole workload to himself.

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08-07-2004, 12:30 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
He hasn't been given that chance since then, and he has struggled because of that. It's time to send Noronen packing and let Marty show what he can do with the whole workload to himself.
I agree, I want to see Marty play and 70 games again and not have to worry who is over shoulder. Just give him the #1 job, trade Mika for whatever, le Miller gain experience from the bench and let him play about 10-15 games. This is the only way it will solve the goaltending woes IMO, Marty was successful when he new he was the #1 and if you implement it again he will be successful.

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08-07-2004, 02:01 PM
  #21
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Let's get back on topic. Payroll.

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08-07-2004, 04:37 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
You're way off...

Biron has more of a habit of making huge saves at crucial moments rather than allowing soft goals at crucial times. Biron had his best season when he was the undisputed starter from the get go in 01-02. He hasn't been given that chance since then, and he has struggled because of that. It's time to send Noronen packing and let Marty show what he can do with the whole workload to himself.
We must be talking about a different Marty Biron...

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08-07-2004, 04:47 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot
Let's get back on topic. Payroll.
Would you mind if fired up the old or even make a new Goaltender discussion thread?

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08-07-2004, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
We must be talking about a different Marty Biron...
Agreed, Biron must serve up ice cream, cause he's mr. softee

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Old
08-07-2004, 10:01 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot
Let's get back on topic. Payroll.
My old fashioned way of doing math (on paper, sans calculator) says that the Sabres payroll as of right now stands at $26,160,575. With roster players Briere, Kalinin (RFA, non-arbitration), Dumont, Peters and Brown still without an assigned salary (listed in my order of importance), what do you think the breaking point is for Biron's award? By breaking point, I mean what is the max that the Sabres can afford him at? I'm setting the over/under at $2,700,000. With the Sabres depth in net, I almost wonder if the Sabres might walk away from an award in the $3M range, and likewise that of a guy like Brown, in an effort to take one last stab at re-signing Zhitnik- but not for 4 years/$16M. As far as Kalinin goes, I doubt he'll sign anything until a labor settlement is reached.

Is a $2.70M breaking point a good number? Can/will the Sabres sign him at anything above that? Pretty hard to say without knowing what the others are going to get, and what the payroll ceiling is for Darcy to work with.

Anyone in favor of Janik over Brown if it means saving a couple hundred thou? I think Janik needs to be signed, too.


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