For every negative aspect of Wang's ownership, I can see two good ones. For every negative aspect of Snow's management, I can see THREE good ones. They're moving in the better 'long-term' direction, and if ownership is so committed to keeping the team in on or near Long Island and roster management has committed to building a team with the goal to be long-term competitive and those capable of logic can see it, why should it be so unreasonable to give "The Plan" the benefit of the doubt?
......unless you're a closet Ranger fan.
That is why they have not won even one playoff round under Wang, or even make the playoffs for years. It is amazing how much praise Wang/Snow get for failure.
Those who say he can't do it just building through the draft need to stop being hockey fans or pick another team because it's the ONLY way Snow has to do it. Why are you still following the team when this is obvious?
In recent history name some teams that have won the cup through the draft only.
Pittsburgh, Detroit, Chicago all built their teams through sucking for 3-5 years, drafting high, letting their kids develop and THEN, once their core showed capable, they added from outside.
That's not true at all.
Detroit last missed the playoffs in consecutive seasons in 1982(!) They've built their team through being consistently competitive, making their franchise attractive to free agents (Chelios, Hossa, Rafalski, etc.) and by developing talent from within (despite drafting low.)
The Penguins and Blackhawks immediately surrounded their young talent with established veterans to help their development. The Isles don't have anyone on their roster who is equivalent to Gonchar, Recchi, Guerin, Campbell, Lang, or Havlat...we're just throwing our young players out there without support and hoping that they figure it out themselves. Which is a strategy that has pretty much never worked in any sport.
To put it another way, the Penguins were a legitimate Cup contender in Crosby's 3rd season. The Blackhawks were a legit Cup Contender in Kane's 2nd season. Here in Tavares' 3rd year, does anyone really see the Isles as a serious title contender?
I think that Snow would love to make a trade for a young defenseman, but I doubt that he has the approval from Wang to add more payroll after the voters rejected the new coliseum. If a trade goes down, I think it will involve Comeau plus prospects or a pick for Bogosian. Just my two cents. I hope that we stay away from Komi, unless he comes very cheap (4th or 5th round pick at most)!!
I think that Snow would love to make a trade for a young defenseman, but I doubt that he has the approval from Wang to add more payroll after the voters rejected the new coliseum. If a trade goes down, I think it will involve Comeau plus prospects or a pick for Bogosian. Just my two cents. I hope that we stay away from Komi, unless he comes very cheap (4th or 5th round pick at most)!!
Agreed, being spurned by Komisarek turned out to be a major blessing in disguise.
Pittsburgh, Detroit, Chicago all built their teams through sucking for 3-5 years, drafting high, letting their kids develop and THEN, once their core showed capable, they added from outside.
{MOD EDIT}.
That is absolutely not true. All three teams above added solid vets (Chicago had some disappointments and added others) WHEN they added youth save for Detroit having vets in place as mentors and adding additional parts as needed. Vets were taken care of, rookies brought in on a schedule and eased into prominent roles.
The Isles did nothing like that (Streit only, and that was a fortunate gamble; Weight and Guerin were 4th/3rd liners not mentoring on ice or helping the team's win now aspect to help the kids. We made it rough in comparison).
So.....does the insult still stand with the irreverent falsehood of your post? We resemble the ATLANTA THRASHERS and PANTHERS, not in a million years do we have a first and second line chock full of vets helping kids learn. Who is our Yzerman mentoring Dats or Feds? Who is our Gonchar/Recchi/Leclair/Malone/Palffy? Who is our Havlat/Vrbata/Smolinski/Aucoin/etc. to help?
Those teams HAD or GOT vets for their draft kids. Mario Friggen Lemieux came back for the mentoring of the kids. Draft only?
That's the SW Division, not a Stanley Cup team.
KH1, thanks; did not see your post yet.
Last edited by Homeland Security: 08-14-2011 at 06:36 PM.
Agreed, being spurned by Komisarek turned out to be a major blessing in disguise.
Most definitely! And really, if he's playing out of his skates trying to prove a point in Toronto, how much more would he struggle on Long Island? I think it would have been a really bad thing.
So this Sammy guy is really a Ranger fan, right? This guy never has a positive comment EVER!!!! Go root for another team, ill speak for myself and probably a couple other people when I say GET LOST!!
So this Sammy guy is really a Ranger fan, right? This guy never has a positive comment EVER!!!! Go root for another team, ill speak for myself and probably a couple other people when I say GET LOST!!
Or he's been a fan for the past 20 years and won't accept a pathetic operation, demanding the best (which we do not get unless we pick first overall).
Count the smart moves and the idiotic over the years and see if it bugs you. It bugs him. So he's a Ranger fan or does he hate management of the Isles?
I've grown fonder of GarfGarf, but Wang it not worth a used TP sheet in my book. Regardless, the guys on the ice are what I watch and hope for. Why is he any different if he's jaded by the management(s)?
So....stay if you show no passion; leave if you're negative. Those must be the rules. (I can recommend a strictly positive board for you where negative Nancies get banned daily)
That is absolutely not true. All three teams above added solid vets (Chicago had some disappointments and added others) WHEN they added youth save for Detroit having vets in place as mentors and adding additional parts as needed. Vets were taken care of, rookies brought in on a schedule and eased into prominent roles.
The Isles did nothing like that (Streit only, and that was a fortunate gamble; Weight and Guerin were 4th/3rd liners not mentoring on ice or helping the team's win now aspect to help the kids. We made it rough in comparison).
So.....does the insult still stand with the irreverent falsehood of your post? We resemble the ATLANTA THRASHERS and PANTHERS, not in a million years do we have a first and second line chock full of vets helping kids learn. Who is our Yzerman mentoring Dats or Feds? Who is our Gonchar/Recchi/Leclair/Malone/Palffy? Who is our Havlat/Vrbata/Smolinski/Aucoin/etc. to help?
Those teams HAD or GOT vets for their draft kids. Mario Friggen Lemieux came back for the mentoring of the kids. Draft only?
And thus it'll be interesting to see just what this team is capable of getting WHEN it looks like it's one 6 million per topflight player away for annual contention.
All things considered, it's not looking like our future get-us-over-the-top 'Hossa' will be acquirable via free agency. I don't care how much money this team would be able and willing to give him, whoever that guy may be, he's likely only coming per trade - and that's gonna cost us.
I don't think we're ready for that. Just isn't wise until a team either gets that 8th spot or just barely missed out on it. And doesn't look like a valid path until current ownership knows if the team is staying here or not.
In general however, it's not like this team has been null and void of veterans since the rebuild was announced. One can argue about the level of quality and certainly the durability, but it's not been icing a team like those in the Milstein years. However, there certainly is no Yzerman or Muller/MacLean here to serve the functions they did in aiding the Red Wings and Devils respectively in going from perennial losers into perennial contenders because this team was preceded by horrible, horrible ownership that threw any such possible pieces away and was then followed up by a Wang ownership that wanted to make a boom immediately and asked it's GM for an overnight face-lift (Yashin, Peca, Aucoin, later Osgood, later Satan, etc.).
As such, anything we might have had that could turn into those figureheads (Chara and Spezza, for example) to guide the current youth was sent elsewhere.
I like to think that we're doing things less like Atlanta and Florida, and more like Nashville, who makes much of little, but has gone after the Kariyas and Forsbergs of the world when they felt they weren't that far off. We're obviously not like Florida in the manner it has been since Tallon took over - and that situation is a generally interesting one for the hockey world. As opposed to Nashville, I believe we'll be able to hold our best RFAs - at least from a financial standpoint. I'm hoping by next summer, this team will know EXACTLY which player or two is missing to make this club one of the top six in the conference and then a winning outfit for a sustained period of time.
But despite what I've written in this post to this point, who knows. MAYBEEEEEE a guy like Hemsky, who I can see having a statistically good year in Edmonton, getting dealt at the deadline and then spending some time in the playoffs, thus putting himself into the high-earner bracket as an UFA next summer, will became our target next offseason. Will we be THE major suitor then??? Could we be the club that may actually rake him him with a necessary overpay???
Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 08-14-2011 at 02:44 PM.
Wang was obviously dead wrong. He also admitted he knew nothing about hockey. So what is your point?
The fact that he was wrong was irrelevant.
He is the one running a multi-million dollar franchise, not the fans. For whatever reason he trusted Milbury. What was he supposed to do when random fans came up to him at the door asking him to fire Milbury? "Oh ya, I'm gonna get on that right away."
I'd lose more respect for Wang if he started making his moves based on what the fans "want."
Or he's been a fan for the past 20 years and won't accept a pathetic operation, demanding the best (which we do not get unless we pick first overall).
Count the smart moves and the idiotic over the years and see if it bugs you. It bugs him. So he's a Ranger fan or does he hate management of the Isles?
I've grown fonder of GarfGarf, but Wang it not worth a used TP sheet in my book. Regardless, the guys on the ice are what I watch and hope for. Why is he any different if he's jaded by the management(s)?
So....stay if you show no passion; leave if you're negative. Those must be the rules. (I can recommend a strictly positive board for you where negative Nancies get banned daily)
Regardless of his take (to which he is entitled), he doesn't spend much time discussing; he provokes in a manner very akin to HFBoards' understanding of 'trolling'.
Regardless of his take (to which he is entitled), he doesn't spend much time discussing; he provokes in a manner very akin to HFBoards' understanding of 'trolling'.
THAT I can see, but his opinion is the point I defend.
Fans get frustrated and can't just release the past in many cases....NOR SHOULD THEY.
The worst offense any fanbase can have is maintaining low expectations.
The worst offense any fanbase can have is maintaining low expectations.
Some of us probably give the current management too much leeway - and may even appear to have 'happily' accepted low expectations.
I'm probably guilty of at least appearing like that at times.
Then again, some of that is born of seeing things with a certain perspective and perhaps even personally feeling there's a right path to getting back to legitimacy, regardless of who owns the team. My 'low expectations' are simply that I want an ownership that will:
A) Pay to keep its own top-flight RFAs as they mature and earn a higher pay grade
B) Spend big money only when it makes sense in light of the way the team is constructed, i.e. when looking at how many younger guys need certain important minutes.
C) Be ready to spend big when it's obvious that we're one or two players away from real contention - not just an eighth spot in the conference.
I see A) being done with regularity in Snow's time as GM. That makes me very happy. This said, I've been very critical of guys like Satan, Fedetenko, Vasicek, Bergehnheim, Martinek and Konopka walking away for nothing. That's another topic, but I feel every single one of them would have gotten AT LEAST a 7th rounder at the respective trade deadlines. I have to believe that Snow darn well knew that some of those guys weren't being retained. Anyhow...
I'm pretty down with respect to B) to this point. Honestly, each of Streit, Moulson, Parenteau, Eaton and Jurcina have been fair signings who came in and did a good job for us in the time they played. Montoya and Wisniewski made sense on this front as trade pieces. I'm happy here to date. Of course we're getting to where it'll be of the utmost importance to upgrade by next summer. I consider the money offered for Hamhuis and Erhoff to have been very fair and market value. Heck, getting their fingers wet with Kovalchuk last summer was interesting as well. I don't mind that they shoot for the stars, but then don't sign some plan B or C just because they missed out on plan A. I hold that to be wise. That prolly upsets some fans, but heck, that plan B or C could have been guys like Ponikarovsky or Frolov last summer, two guys many fans were clamoring for. Also, I wouldn't be upset with going into this season with the defense as it is, because I think Wishart and Katic, and hopefully later in the season, de Haan, will be able to contribute, but seeing Streit, Eaton and Mottau coming off of major injuries, I'd rather the team add another blueliner, even if it's just McCabe.
Part C) is of course pending, but I hope it'll be next summer and I'll be pushing hard as a fan that this team go after a guy like Hemsky (mentioned above) if he's still an UFA and coming off a good season.
When Wang came in, he spent big and tried to do things that way without a system full of surefire future NHLers. It trickled down to the point we've been at for years.
Thus, with these three points above being my expectations of any management, I'm not deterred by all the hoopla surrounding Wang as an owner, Snow's strange path to GMhood or even all the years out of the playoffs. Of course I'd be ecstatic if these expectations could be exceeded - no matter who the owner is.
Things could change in my mind's eye if C) isn't conducted. Then again, C) may be riding on the arena issue once this group of kids has gotten that far.
Some of us probably give the current management too much leeway - and may even appear to have 'happily' accepted low expectations.
I'm probably guilty of at least appearing like that at times.
Then again, some of that is born of seeing things with a certain perspective and perhaps even personally feeling there's a right path to getting back to legitimacy, regardless of who owns the team. My 'low expectations' are simply that I want an ownership that will:
A) Pay to keep its own top-flight RFAs as they mature and earn a higher pay grade
B) Spend big money only when it makes sense in light of the way the team is constructed, i.e. when looking at how many younger guys need certain important minutes.
C) Be ready to spend big when it's obvious that we're one or two players away from real contention - not just an eighth spot in the conference.
.....
Just wanted to chime in and mention I feel much the same way, though my version of C includes the need for an upgrade on defense now. This is where a trade is necessary, and fairly apparent to many in the fan base considering how long it will take to fill the position by waiting for defensive prospect development to take care of it.
And yeah, how can one be a fan of this club for a few decades and not be unhappy with the corner they are painted into now?
Pittsburgh, Detroit, Chicago all built their teams through sucking for 3-5 years, drafting high, letting their kids develop and THEN, once their core showed capable, they added from outside.
Dude, you are so freaking ignorant it really is sad, PLEASE keep posting, you look more and more moronic with every word, almost as if someone taught their monkey to stop throwing their $#!! and type instead. Tomorrow morning when you get on the short bus to school, don't forget to put on your helmet because bro, you are literally hanging by a thread.
LMFAO
The best part of this thread is watching little Sammy get his panties in a bunch and self destruct.
I said draft only. Reading issues?
Last edited by Sammy2010*: 08-14-2011 at 04:29 PM.
Or he's been a fan for the past 20 years and won't accept a pathetic operation, demanding the best (which we do not get unless we pick first overall).
Count the smart moves and the idiotic over the years and see if it bugs you. It bugs him. So he's a Ranger fan or does he hate management of the Isles?
I've grown fonder of GarfGarf, but Wang it not worth a used TP sheet in my book. Regardless, the guys on the ice are what I watch and hope for. Why is he any different if he's jaded by the management(s)?
So....stay if you show no passion; leave if you're negative. Those must be the rules. (I can recommend a strictly positive board for you where negative Nancies get banned daily)
I have been a fan since before they won their Cups. Saw my first games on WOR 9.
So this Sammy guy is really a Ranger fan, right? This guy never has a positive comment EVER!!!! Go root for another team, ill speak for myself and probably a couple other people when I say GET LOST!!
Right in this thread I gave Snow credit for MM, and MG.
They do aggregate a little (a now I'm confronted with my drunk typing ) but if it's not straight up a 2-to-1 ratio, it's pretty close.
Wang can be blamed directly for letting Milbury stunt the team's quest for success at the beginning, questionable negotiations with local politicos and allowing his eccentricities to taint the team's image.
Giving Snow years to rebuild shows a similar patience as that shows with Mad Mike, but Snow seems to be doing better with it. For those who say that Snow/Wang specifically don't try to better the team on ice, there was a point when we fans were forced to enter hockey season with a top line of Brad Isbister, Tim Connolly & Mariusz Czerkawski. The Yashin/Peca FA free-for-all propagated by Wang after he bought the team is book-ended by horrible luck attracting players. The last worthwhile thing before 2001 was Palffy.
Summation: he may have made ****** choices at the start, but he started learning along the way. Not enough to right the ship immediately, but I think the patience with Snow will pay off. I'd be more nervous if they started trading everyone for vets....that worked out the 1st time.
The issues with local politicians revealed a stubbornness that can be considered unfavorable if the Isles wind up leaving and pretty damn solid from a 'keep the team on Long Island by any legal means necessary' point of view. You can absolutely screw up being stubborn, but having lost a lot of money at various points throughout his tenure, I'm glad that ANY owner committed to Long Island is declining to tuck tail & run.
As for the team image, it wasn't that good to start with. Maloney, Milbury, Milstein, Gluckstern, the Gang of Four, the Fisherman unis....all of it put the team at a perennial disadvantage. For a sew seasons at first, the team wasn't a joke, and when it was obvious that vets and retreads can't get you very far, staging a total rebuild was about as necessary as it gets. 2007-08 didn't see the team having any picks before the THIRD round, and since the kind of player than can transcend the struggles of immediately jumping into the league wasn't to be had until the '09 draft (John Tavares,) there was nothing else but Okposo & Bailey getting forced up too quick, which I still regret, but see the reasoning behind.
While this isn't intended to give the impression that Wang has carte blanche (he doesnt,) the team could have had Tampa's old management and Kevin Lowe at the GM chair tossing out offer sheets. Make no mistake - it took more than long enough for Wang to wise up, but it's better late than never, as I don't see drafting Taylor Hall and Jared Cowan being anywhere near as catalytic as Tavares - they're great, but he has a pedigree they don't. There are enough question marks in the team's future without the benefit of high picks.
Not for the sake of giving anyone a pass, but I frequently wonder about how things could have turned out much different with this franchise. The arena was old when Wang took over....the ice sucks, tiles are loose, it's outdated....I really don't see a situation working for a team in that juncture outside of getting bought by someone like Terry Pegula (although my jury's still out until I see Ehrhoff, Regehr & Leino work out well,) where a guy with sick amounts of money can expect a fair return investment from a rejuvenated team lacking the stigma that hinders Wang & the Islanders.
He is the one running a multi-million dollar franchise, not the fans. For whatever reason he trusted Milbury. What was he supposed to do when random fans came up to him at the door asking him to fire Milbury? "Oh ya, I'm gonna get on that right away."
I'd lose more respect for Wang if he started making his moves based on what the fans "want."
It was not random fans. Hockey voices across the league were criticizing Wang for keeping MM, and it went on for years. But Wang knows best.....
Detroit last missed the playoffs in consecutive seasons in 1982(!) They've built their team through being consistently competitive, making their franchise attractive to free agents (Chelios, Hossa, Rafalski, etc.) and by developing talent from within (despite drafting low.)
The Penguins and Blackhawks immediately surrounded their young talent with established veterans to help their development. The Isles don't have anyone on their roster who is equivalent to Gonchar, Recchi, Guerin, Campbell, Lang, or Havlat...we're just throwing our young players out there without support and hoping that they figure it out themselves. Which is a strategy that has pretty much never worked in any sport.
To put it another way, the Penguins were a legitimate Cup contender in Crosby's 3rd season. The Blackhawks were a legit Cup Contender in Kane's 2nd season. Here in Tavares' 3rd year, does anyone really see the Isles as a serious title contender?
Streit?
Those teams also have owners willing to spend money, and are places players are willing to sign.
Detroit last missed the playoffs in consecutive seasons in 1982(!) They've built their team through being consistently competitive, making their franchise attractive to free agents (Chelios, Hossa, Rafalski, etc.) and by developing talent from within (despite drafting low.)
The Penguins and Blackhawks immediately surrounded their young talent with established veterans to help their development. The Isles don't have anyone on their roster who is equivalent to Gonchar, Recchi, Guerin, Campbell, Lang, or Havlat...we're just throwing our young players out there without support and hoping that they figure it out themselves. Which is a strategy that has pretty much never worked in any sport.
To put it another way, the Penguins were a legitimate Cup contender in Crosby's 3rd season. The Blackhawks were a legit Cup Contender in Kane's 2nd season. Here in Tavares' 3rd year, does anyone really see the Isles as a serious title contender?
Spot on. A popular misconception around here. Sans Streit, there hasn't been/isn't one legitimate veteran playing in a significant role (e.g. top-6, top-4). Can only imagine what difference a veteran could have made in the development of the youth.
(I can recommend a strictly positive board for you where negative Nancies get banned daily)
) but if it's not straight up a 2-to-1 ratio, it's pretty close.
