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Gretzky's records broken?

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08-05-2004, 07:06 PM
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Puckhead
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Gretzky's records broken?

While on another thread the conversation of Gretzky's records came up. I believe that his records are very safe, especially when you look at the way the game is played these days. Last year the elite players in the league could muster only 41 goals...Gretzky had 92, and routinely had more than 41. 100 point seasons are hardly attainable...Gretzky had 215, and three 200+ seasons. Nobody scored 50 goals last year...Gretzky had 50 in 39 games. And the list goes on and on. I ask you guys, to please state the records, which in your minds could be broken, or will be broken, and as a twist who you think will break them. Sounds like fun right? Give it some thought and let's see where this goes...Lemieux is really the only one who gave Gretz a real scare, and had he remained healthy, would have captured a few of them.

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08-05-2004, 07:16 PM
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I really don't see any of his major records being touched. His career stats are so out of reach, I don't see any current players getting close to them. The guy that might break them if anyone probably isn't in the NHL right now. He'd have to put up 100-150 points pretty much from his rookie season to approach his points record and that's not likely. The regular season records are very tough to break but atleast it takes one great season to reach them. No one will score 90+ goals or 200+ points again.

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08-05-2004, 07:30 PM
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Birko19
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Not even Gretzky in his prime can break his own records with the way the game is played today.

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08-05-2004, 07:36 PM
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Vlad The Impaler
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No player currently in the NHL will break his record and the league would have to change a great deal for it to happen. If the league changed sufficiently, it could happen. It would just take *extremely* rare circumstances but records were made to be broken.

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08-05-2004, 07:40 PM
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Only a 100% healthy Mario back in the day could have broken the Great One's records.

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08-05-2004, 07:48 PM
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tom_servo
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I think it's folly to assume that today's game will remain status quo forever. Scoring will go up again, eventually, and if timed correctly with an up-and-coming wunderkind, then who knows.

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08-05-2004, 07:59 PM
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I thought they were unbreakable. I thought that those kind of PPG was impossible in today hockey. That all changed when I saw a 37 years old player, that have been away from the game for 3 years, that had cancer, score 2 PPG in the worst of the trap era.

It will take a wunderkid but it can be done.

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08-05-2004, 09:10 PM
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we'll never know. the game has evolved into a more defensive effort, but who's to say it won't evolve into a wide open offensive game again? players evolve and records are meant to be broken.

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08-05-2004, 09:59 PM
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Taking a look at Gretzky's offensive production, the sight is just simply awesome.

Year GP G A Pts PIM
1979-80 79 51 86 137 21
1980-81 80 55 109 164 28
1981-82 80 92 120 212 26
1982-83 80 71 125 196 59
1983-84 74 87 118 205 39
1984-85 80 73 135 208 52
1985-86 80 52 163 215 46
1986-87 79 62 121 183 28
1987-88 64 40 109 149 24
1988-89 78 54 114 168 26
1989-90 73 40 102 142 42
1990-91 78 41 122 163 16
1991-92 74 31 90 121 34
1992-93 45 16 49 65 6
1993-94 81 38 92 130 20
1994-95 48 11 37 48 6
1995-96 80 23 79 102 34
1996-97 82 25 72 97 28
1997-98 82 23 67 90 28
1998-99 70 9 53 62 14
Totals 1487 894 1963 2857 577

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08-05-2004, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs_1983_shannonman
Taking a look at Gretzky's offensive production, the sight is just simply awesome.

Year GP G A Pts PIM
1979-80 79 51 86 137 21
1980-81 80 55 109 164 28
1981-82 80 92 120 212 26
1982-83 80 71 125 196 59
1983-84 74 87 118 205 39
1984-85 80 73 135 208 52
1985-86 80 52 163 215 46
1986-87 79 62 121 183 28
1987-88 64 40 109 149 24
1988-89 78 54 114 168 26
1989-90 73 40 102 142 42
1990-91 78 41 122 163 16
1991-92 74 31 90 121 34
1992-93 45 16 49 65 6
1993-94 81 38 92 130 20
1994-95 48 11 37 48 6
1995-96 80 23 79 102 34
1996-97 82 25 72 97 28
1997-98 82 23 67 90 28
1998-99 70 9 53 62 14
Totals 1487 894 1963 2857 577
Granted, this is some incredible number. Who though someone would outscore Gordie ? Record are there to be broken. And they will.

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08-05-2004, 10:16 PM
  #11
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It's just a question of time.

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08-05-2004, 10:30 PM
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Boomhower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_servo
I think it's folly to assume that today's game will remain status quo forever. Scoring will go up again, eventually, and if timed correctly with an up-and-coming wunderkind, then who knows.
There is also a very real chance that the schedule will be reduced to 72 games. Even if the scoring does go up again, potential chasers may have in the neighborhood of 13% less games to produce.

His career playoff goals (122), is a mark that IMO is likely to be broken one day.

The Gretzky chart.

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08-05-2004, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower
There is also a very real chance that the schedule will be reduced to 72 games. Even if the scoring does go up again, potential chasers may have in the neighborhood of 13% less games to produce.

His career playoff goals (122), is a mark that IMO is likely to be broken one day.

The Gretzky chart.

Some of the Great Ones records are not that far out of reach. His career goal totals record I could see being broken by Kovalchuk, especially if the game opens up more. Gretzky's scoring sort of tailed off more and more as his career declined. He never had a 50 goal year after 1988-1989. Granted he scored what seem like impressive goal totals for now, but in the early 90's they weren't that impressive. Most teams had at least a 40 goal scorer back then.

His assist numbers are astronomical, it's going to take the right player in the right situation at the right time to ever break his assist records, especially for a career.

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08-06-2004, 12:01 AM
  #14
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
No player currently in the NHL will break his record and the league would have to change a great deal for it to happen. If the league changed sufficiently, it could happen. It would just take *extremely* rare circumstances but records were made to be broken.
Well it is likely that either the league will change into a style offensive enough for the records to be broken or a player with enough talent comes along to do it. However, the odds are against the two happening at the same time. His career totals at this point just aren't touchable, but there are many others I'd say have a fair chance of getting broken in our lifetime.

Though I don't think the game will ever be as sloppy defensively (lack of a better term, feel free to argue this guys but I wouldn't even try defending it) as it was in the 80's, I certainly think there will be a time when it is offensive enough. I simply can't believe, either, that no one will come along with the right tools to do it. The two happening at the same time, as in the league being heavily offensive through the bulk of a properly talented player's prime, makes it all far less likely.

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08-06-2004, 12:05 AM
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Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower
There is also a very real chance that the schedule will be reduced to 72 games. Even if the scoring does go up again, potential chasers may have in the neighborhood of 13% less games to produce.

His career playoff goals (122), is a mark that IMO is likely to be broken one day.

The Gretzky chart.
I sure hope that doesn't happen.

Lots of talk but I don't know how concrete it is at this point. If the players want less games... how about cutting the preseason in half? It is far too long as is. If the league keeps the preseason at its currently length and reduces the regular season, I really have to think that it is the most ineptly run organization in the hemisphere.

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08-06-2004, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDB3939
Some of the Great Ones records are not that far out of reach. His career goal totals record I could see being broken by Kovalchuk...
You do realize Kovy would have to average 40 goals a year for the next 20 years to pass Gretz, don't you?

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08-06-2004, 06:00 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodZillaAteMyZamboni
You do realize Kovy would have to average 40 goals a year for the next 20 years to pass Gretz, don't you?
A few 50-60+ goal seasons should make it considerably easier..

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08-06-2004, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDB3939
Some of the Great Ones records are not that far out of reach. His career goal totals record I could see being broken by Kovalchuk, especially if the game opens up more. Gretzky's scoring sort of tailed off more and more as his career declined. He never had a 50 goal year after 1988-1989. Granted he scored what seem like impressive goal totals for now, but in the early 90's they weren't that impressive. Most teams had at least a 40 goal scorer back then.

His assist numbers are astronomical, it's going to take the right player in the right situation at the right time to ever break his assist records, especially for a career.
Just a little perspective.

Ilya has 108 goals in 227 games, .48 goals per game.
Wayne has 894 goals in 1487 games, .60 goals per game.

For that to happen, not only does Ilya need to crank up his scoring by over 25% and keep it up there, but then he needs to play another 17+ years without trailing off. Knowing that age slows down everybody (even Mario and Wayne), for Kovy to have any shot, he needs to put 60+ on the board each and every year for the next decade. Keep in mind that Wayne put up 323 goals in a 4-year span and didn't dip below 50 for 8 years.

I don't think we will see any of Wayne's records broken in our lifetime. One day, sure, but not soon. Not by anybody in the league today.


Last edited by JCD: 08-06-2004 at 06:47 AM.
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08-06-2004, 09:17 AM
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Wayne Gretzky has more career assists than Gordie Howe has points.

That alone should tel you his records will never be touched. Only if the NHL somehow explodes into another huge offensive era and someone like Ovechkin dominates from the beginning of his career untill the end, will that even be possible. The season records of 92 goals, 163 assists, and 215 points will NEVER, EVER again be broken.

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08-06-2004, 09:47 AM
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Do you all think maybe the players will demand the league to open up the game more as part of the CBA talks?

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08-06-2004, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
Do you all think maybe the players will demand the league to open up the game more as part of the CBA talks?
Since the NHLPA opposed the reduction of the goalies pad sizes, no.

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08-06-2004, 11:06 AM
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Just a side note but doesn't Kovalev have exclusive rights to the"kovy" nickname? Calling Kovalchuk Kovy too is a tad confusing. Lets at least come up with different nicknames for different players, i.e. "chucky" for Ilya.

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08-06-2004, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDB3939
Some of the Great Ones records are not that far out of reach. His career goal totals record I could see being broken by Kovalchuk, especially if the game opens up more. Gretzky's scoring sort of tailed off more and more as his career declined. He never had a 50 goal year after 1988-1989. Granted he scored what seem like impressive goal totals for now, but in the early 90's they weren't that impressive. Most teams had at least a 40 goal scorer back then.

His assist numbers are astronomical, it's going to take the right player in the right situation at the right time to ever break his assist records, especially for a career.
Granted, Gretz's totals did tail off near the end, but name a player who will be as productive at 39 as he was at 29. I will answer it for you...NOBODY! I appreciate you standing up and electing Kovalchuk, as that is what this thread was for, but Kovalchuk will, as will anyone who tries to break his records will have to get better every year, and play longer than Wayne did. His records are as awe inspiring in longevity as they are in pure talent and skill. While I would be kidding myself to say none of his records will ever be broken, the ones that really make you shake your head like goals in a season, a career, assists in a season, a career, 50 hat tricks, quickest to 50...and some others, are just absolutely incredible and will not be touched.

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08-06-2004, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasStars2003
Wayne Gretzky has more career assists than Gordie Howe has points.

That alone should tel you his records will never be touched. Only if the NHL somehow explodes into another huge offensive era and someone like Ovechkin dominates from the beginning of his career untill the end, will that even be possible. The season records of 92 goals, 163 assists, and 215 points will NEVER, EVER again be broken.
YES! A voice of reason! It is far to easy to sit here and say...It's just a matter of time...Well thanks for the insight! The point is you have to break it down, and the numbers will not lie. If anyone is to equal or better those records it will take more then the league opening up the game. It will take a player who is head a shoulders above the rest from his rookie year, and he must remain that way for his whole career, and hope that he doesn't get injured and miss significant stretches or any number of intangibles which Gretzky was able to deal with.

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08-06-2004, 05:09 PM
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It's conceivable that a few might fall, but I don't see anyone playing today who could even get close. A few are untouchable (50 in 39 for one, career assists for another), but some aren't out of the realm of possibility. The playoff stats in particular because Wayne didn't play in the playoffs every year. If a player were to play on teams that made the playoffs a lot and went far each time those numbers are reachable.


Also bear in mind that every time a player starts to get close to ANY of these, they will be dogged by unbelieveable pressure and media attention similar to the way Roger Maris was when chasing the Babe or the way it always happens when someone even flirts with hitting .400. Makes it that much harder IMO.

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