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Vancouver - NJD - Parise (Trade Deadline)

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Old
07-31-2011, 12:04 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
And I'm sure Atlanta wanted Parise, Zajac or Martin from NJD when they traded Kovalchuk...

UFA rentals never return another top player.
Parise: "I'd like to stay with New Jersey and hope we can find a deal that works."
Kovolchuk: "Screw 100 million dollars. I'm done with Atlanta."

Significant difference.

Parise is probably better compared to Hossa's value at the deadline, which most thought was a massive overpayment.

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Old
07-31-2011, 12:10 PM
  #27
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To Vancouver: Parise

To New Jersey: Schneider, Edler, Schroeder + 1st round pick

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Old
07-31-2011, 12:16 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by The Rochester Rocket View Post
Parise, Zajac >>> Edler
Hell if Atlanta wouldn't have taken Martin on the last year of his contract of course I'd trade him. And the biggest mistake youre making is that these teams aren't dealing with any ordinary gm, there were 28 other teams in the that could have traded for kovy if theg wanted him so bad im sure they could have done better than those "scraps," mb you should fully comprehend the full situation before you press submit reply
The *only* way that Parise is dealt at all is if the Devils' can't sign him and he's looking to test the UFA market... and even in that case, as many Devils' fans have pointed out, he's still not likely to be dealt and would walk as a UFA (like many other Devils' players have done in past years).

Realistically, there is no way that Parise is dealt if he's not dealt as a rental player.

And no rental player in history has ever landed a #1 dman back in a trade...

Edler is the Canucks #1 dman. He is the most valuable dman on the team. Can you provide even a single example in NHL history were a team gave up their most valuable dman for a rental?

It didn't happen for Gretzky... didn't happen for Forsberg... nor Hossa, nor Kovalchuk.

Why are Devils fans so delusional into thinking that Parise would garner that kind of return?

I can understand that's what you *want* for him. Just like I'm sure that Atlanta would have wanted someone like Parise or Zajac for Kovalchuk. But history shows *time and again* that such trades just *NEVER* happen.

You guys are putting Parise's trade value at some level never before seen by any rental player in NHL history. It's just not going to happen.

The most realistic situation, given what history has shown us with how Lou has handled his impending UFAs, along with Parise's situation in a 1yr deal, and seeing what has happened with a long string of former Devils' hitting their final years - Parise is simply going to walk as a UFA at the end of the season without the Devils' getting anything in return.

Hate it all you want, but that, given everything we know about Lou, the Devils' and their impending UFA history, seems to point to this happening.

What will NEVER happen, is the Devils landing a key player from any other team, who is not an impending UFA himself. Top end contenders do not give up their key players when looking to add a rental at the deadline. This is so obvious that anyone who has followed the game should know it.... apparently it seems that either many Devils fans haven't followed trade history that long, or just refuse to believe that "their" player is in the same situation as other UFAs. For some reason some people believe that Parise is in a class by himself that not even Gretzky or Forsberg, or Kovalchuk who you acquired yourself, weren't in.

Look at reality here... and reality shows that there will be 3 options with Parise, and only one of those 3 options:

1) The Devils re-sign Parise and he stays there long-term (obviously the preferred option for the Devils).
2) He is dealt at the deadline for the same type of return that other star players at the deadline have gotten - ie. NO key players from other teams, and that includes players like Edler, or Kesler. If you really want to look at this realistically, based on NHL history, you won't even get back an organization's top prospect - as again such assets are never dealt for rentals (note how Jersey did not give up near their best prospect for Kovalchuk).
3) Parise walks as a UFA at the end of the year and the Devils are left with nothing. Given Lou's and Devils' history with impending UFAs, this is the most realistic scenario here.

You are not getting an Edler or Kesler for a rental. Gretzky couldn't land one... Parise sure as hell isn't going to.

As a Canuck fan who wants to see Parise on my team, the only realistic option I see is #3 - wait till he walks as a UFA and sign him then. The Devils are not a team that deal their impending UFAs, and Gillis is not a GM that gives up multiple assets for rental players. The only way it happens is via FA.

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Old
07-31-2011, 12:39 PM
  #29
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Sedin twins for Parise and Kovalchuk...

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Old
07-31-2011, 01:20 PM
  #30
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Only way Parise gets traded is if a top-flight defenseman ends up going back to them. So maybe a package of Cory Scheidner, Alex Edler and Cody Hodgson plus a 1st in 2012 for Parise could be what happens.
Parise is not going to get that much. Parise is going to be rental. If parise wasn't a rental he still wouldn't worth that much. look at what kovelchuk and hossa went for when they were rentals. look at what heatley/b Richards/M richards/J Carter/joe thornton went for when it wasn't a rental. stars are worth a lot but they're not worth an arm and a leg. when was a last time a team traded a number 1 def/ potential star goalie/potential top 6 forward/1st round pick. almost never

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Old
07-31-2011, 01:26 PM
  #31
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I'm a big Parise fan, but this is very good value for him, even now. By the deadline, Devils management will know if Zach is interested in re-signing..if he doesn't, this would be outstanding value.

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Old
07-31-2011, 01:30 PM
  #32
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If you want one of the best players in the game you have to do better than prospects, albeit good ones, but still prospects.

Canucks:
Kesler
Schneider

Or

Edler
Hodgson
Tanev

Both proposals would really set Vancouver back, but if you want a top ten player you have to give up substantial pieces.

P.s.- the argument that Parise is a "rental" you don't move the players it would take just to let him walk in the offseason. I'm sorry but that's a really bad excuse to justify "he's not worth that player" gibberish. In a blockbuster trade of this magnitude would most definitely be a sign and trade.


Last edited by Meatwagon: 07-31-2011 at 01:44 PM.
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Old
07-31-2011, 01:36 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
Wrong

Playing around with Capgeek I fit everything in quite nicely for the season after this coming one. I even managed to keep Raymond and Salo while having enough money to pay Edler five million. Hell Ballard is still on the roster, although I assume he would be moved were Parise a serious acquisition. Case in point, the Canucks would easily afford to pay both Parise and Edler top dollar devoid of dismantling their roster. The issue is New Jersey has no reason to trade Parise unless Vancouver is offering Edler or Kesler, and unless Tanev explodes, I hesitant to move Edler.

Put it this way OP. The only way New Jersey even ponders that offer is if the hype surrounding Hodgson proves accurate and Tanev becomes a legitimate top four defenseman. Hodgson would need to play wing and excels obviously, at which why would we trade him for Parise?

See? It always comes back to Edler or bust. The offer isn't necessarily bad value wise but you do not address New Jersey's needs. They want a top tier defenseman, and thus would demand...

Edler
Hodgson
First/Schneider
You gotta be joking?.... Canucks get ***** up the ass!. One year of Parise isn't worth all that and will hurt us more than help us. I'd rather sit and wait till he hits UFA and sign him there and keep Edler, Hodgson and Schneider. What rental player has ever brought back a package that huge?...

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Old
07-31-2011, 01:38 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucks1982 View Post
Parise is not going to get that much. Parise is going to be rental. If parise wasn't a rental he still wouldn't worth that much. look at what kovelchuk and hossa went for when they were rentals. look at what heatley/b Richards/M richards/J Carter/joe thornton went for when it wasn't a rental. stars are worth a lot but they're not worth an arm and a leg. when was a last time a team traded a number 1 def/ potential star goalie/potential top 6 forward/1st round pick. almost never
That would entail first that Parise doesn't resign with NJ, and 2nd he is not willing to accept a contract from a suitor during the regular season. I would admit Parise, is probably not worth a package like the previous, but and offer of Elder and Schneider (See Richards who despite not being as good as Parise and had character issues, still netted the best prospect in the world, a 22 year old potential top 6 forward, and a 2nd) for Parise with an extension in place isn't too far off.

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Old
07-31-2011, 01:39 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatwagon View Post
If you want one of the best players in the game you have to do better than prospects, albeit good ones, but still prospects.

Canucks:
Kesler
Schneider

Or

Edler
Hodgson
Tanev

Both proposals would really set Vancouver back, but if you want a top ten player you have to give up substantial pieces.
How does Parise bring back all that?.. that's just insane to think he'll bring that back!. He's a UFA at the end of this season, not happening.

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Old
07-31-2011, 01:42 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by BeastoftheEast85 View Post
That would entail first that Parise doesn't resign with NJ, and 2nd he is not willing to accept a contract from a suitor during the regular season. I would admit Parise, is probably not worth a package like the previous, but and offer of Elder and Schneider (See Richards who despite not being as good as Parise and had character issues, still netted the best prospect in the world, a 22 year old potential top 6 forward, and a 2nd) for Parise with an extension in place isn't too far off.
Big difference when one is signed long term on a great deal vs being a UFA.

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Old
07-31-2011, 01:52 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by ScubaaaBob View Post
Big difference when one is signed long term on a great deal vs being a UFA.
Reread what I wrote completely if it isn't too difficult and then revise your post...

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Old
07-31-2011, 01:56 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by BeastoftheEast85 View Post
Reread what I wrote completely if it isn't too difficult and then revise your post...
Still dumb to play the game well if he come sign we get more to help you justify getting more when as of now he wont be signed.

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Old
07-31-2011, 01:58 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
The most realistic situation, given what history has shown us with how Lou has handled his impending UFAs, along with Parise's situation in a 1yr deal, and seeing what has happened with a long string of former Devils' hitting their final years - Parise is simply going to walk as a UFA at the end of the season without the Devils' getting anything in return.
I'd agree provided the Devils are in the playoff mix, but last year he didn't hesitate to get rid of Langenbrunner and Arnott and get something back.

For the most part the guys Lou has let walk away after the season haven't lived up to their contracts. Rafalski is really the only exception, as Lou tried to keep Neidermeyer but was no match for Scott wanting to play with his brother.
The jury is still out on Martin, but Gomez was a no-brainer and as much as I like Gionta I don't think Montreal envisioned back-to-back 46 point seasons for $5 million per season.

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Old
07-31-2011, 02:00 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Correct. Lou does not trade pending UFAs when the Devils are in a playoff spot. I do not expect this to be any exception.
You're 100% correct. That's why Lou should show some guts and move Zach before the season begins.

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Old
07-31-2011, 02:02 PM
  #41
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I still enjoy these Parise threads, if for no other reason than to watch Jersey fans get worked up about them.

Schneider, Raymond and a 1st is all I would be willing to give up, and if it looks like Parise isn't going to sign long term by the deadline then Lou should be all over that package.

UFA superstars never get the return that fans of that player think they deserve. When you see the return that guys like Kovy and Hossa got, I think it's safe to say that anything involving a core player from the Canucks shouldn't be necessary. The fact that Raymond is already a proven top 6 player actually makes it a better deal than those imo.

That being said, I expect Parise will be re-signed to a long term deal before the deadline.

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Old
07-31-2011, 02:07 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by ScubaaaBob View Post
Still dumb to play the game well if he come sign we get more to help you justify getting more when as of now he wont be signed.
Well I emboldened that because as of now the most likely scenario based on his statements and NJ management statements are that he will be resigned. I can't really read what I didn't embolden too well, but from what I understood, being able to negotiate an extension before he is traded is extremely likely, not making up something that doesn't happen in order to get more assets. We are 3/4 of a year away from deadline so it is better to work under the assumption he is not just a rental being moved at deadline if you don't want to just troll.

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Old
07-31-2011, 02:08 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
Well our only trade-able top 6 would be raymond or sammy, because there is 0% chance sedins/bur/kes will get traded.

I think its highly unrealistic to ask for either of those 3 for a player who wont stay in NJ.
it may be unrealistic in your mind but that's completley irrellevent. the devils are likely going to want someone to replace at least some of his production. if the canucks aren't willing to give up what jersey is looking for they'll simply trade him to someone who will. i'll tell you right now there's no shortage of teams around the league that would be willing to give up a top 6 forward in a package for parise.

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Old
07-31-2011, 02:13 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by BeastoftheEast85 View Post
Well I emboldened that because as of now the most likely scenario based on his statements and NJ management statements are that he will be resigned. I can't really read what I didn't embolden too well, but from what I understood, being able to negotiate an extension before he is traded is extremely likely, not making up something that doesn't happen in order to get more assets. We are 3/4 of a year away from deadline so it is better to work under the assumption he is not just a rental being moved at deadline if you don't want to just troll.
He wont be a sign and deal as of now. I'm not trolling I'm laughing that you guys think he is worth more than Kesler or Edler when he is a upcoming UFA. If he re-signs with you guys great for you guys you got a great player, if he's traded I think you'll be disappointed with the return.

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07-31-2011, 02:14 PM
  #45
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I'd be willing to do Edler + Hodgson for Parise but only when he actually signs a multi-year deal.

Other than that, if your even just expecting Edler back for Parise on a 1-year deal...that's hilarious.

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Old
07-31-2011, 02:17 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by BeastoftheEast85 View Post
Reread what I wrote completely if it isn't too difficult and then revise your post...
It's not difficult to understand. It just makes no sense at all.

Sign and trades DO NOT happen for UFAs. Richards is locked up longterm, Parise is not. Teams do not do sign and trades to improve the value of rentals. It just does not happen in reality.

Explain this to me - why would you expect more in return for Parise than what Kovalchuk or Hossa returned? Why would you expect that Parise becomes the first player since the lockout (and possibly history) to agree to a sign and trade as a pending UFA (note, this isn't like Setoguichi or like Hossa/Heatley when they were dealt - they were all RFAs)?

Why are Jersey fans expecting a return for Parise that exceeds what all other impending UFAs have *ever* been dealt for? Is Parise the second coming of Gretzky and Lemieux combined? Cause not even Gretzky as a rental returned what Jersey fans are expecting for Parise.

Players do not extend contracts in their UFA years to then get traded in order to improve the value of the return. And teams *never* give up core/key players for any rentals - even the greatest ever dealt.

So please explain the above. And to make your case could you provide just one single example any time in NHL history were the return for any rental - even the greatest of the greats - returned a comparable package to what you guys are expecting for Parise? Just one single example to believe that this is even possible in reality?

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Old
07-31-2011, 02:20 PM
  #47
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I agree that IF Parise is dealt at the deadline , it will be for something les sthan Devils fan would hope for / expect. Going off of prior deadline deals for 'star' players , I cannot think of a deal where I viewed it as fair value in return. It was always a " holy crap they got (insert players name here) for those guys!!! Thats a steal of a deal!!!"
As a Devils fan and Parise fan , it would only be that type of situation and feeling but x2
We would never get a return of what we feel would be comparable talent coming back for a rental Parise.

Having said that , I almost wish that Lou would sack-up and trade him prior to the start of the season if he has a strong feeling that Parise will not extend.

Question is though , what would his value be then right now compared to deadline rental??

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Old
07-31-2011, 02:24 PM
  #48
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To the OP: That's not a bad proposal for a rental player.

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Old
07-31-2011, 02:25 PM
  #49
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I am not too sure how all this works , but can Weber be traded given his current contract status?
If he can be traded , would Parise + Urbom be decent offer for him?
Or something like Weber (having a new one year deal) for Parise+Urbom or Parise+Burlon+3rd?

I still think it would not be enough as Weber would still be a RFA after this year , while Parise would be UFA of course.

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Old
07-31-2011, 02:31 PM
  #50
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Can't see the Devils trading him now. They are a long way from the "11th hour" and can try and extend him until then. The best thing for the Devils will be to sign him long-term and until that option becomes impossible there's no point in trading him. He's too good a player not to try everything to retain.

If the Devils are in a playoff run, he's not going anywhere this year.

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