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Old
08-02-2011, 11:11 AM
  #51
NAF
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
No way are we better than Phoenix.

For all those wondering how they are going to score, they were 14th in the league in G/G last year.

We were 28th.

Even with their bad goaltending, we will be sniffing their rear ends throughout the season.

Anyone that thinks otherwise is free to place an avatar bet with me.

The bet is who finishes with more points for the season.

I will take Phoenix.

I will entertain up to three takers.

All those that mouth off but dont take the bet will be duly noted and mocked at a later date.
I will take that bet, sir. =) I'm not deluded enough to think we're out of the lottery this year, but by God if I can't believe we'll be better than Phoenix ... I don't even want to finish that thought. ...

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08-02-2011, 11:11 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by mindmasher View Post
You are severely under-appreciating how much of an impact Phoenix losing Bryzgalov is going to make on their point total next season. Mike Smith should drop them a good 6-10 points by himself. The rest of that roster is devoid of top end talent except for an aged Doan and Yandle, who will have to show consistency.

Their defence does not impress me a lot more than the Oilers defence core either. Sure Yandle looks good, but they have an old Aucoin, and an overpaid Rozsival. Pretty ho-hum.
Losing Bryzgalov will hurt them but they almost made the playoffs a few years ago before he showed up and that was with Gretzky as a coach not Tippett.

They had 99 points last season we had 62, that's a huge difference. There's a chance we're better than them next year but I'm surprised at the number of people calling for it. The only team I think we're for sure better than on paper is Florida. There are a few teams that could end up worse than us if things go right but if we end up with injuries again or if Dubnyk cant handle playing more games than Khabi than we could easily be back in the bottom two.

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08-02-2011, 11:51 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I admire your fortitude, but question your judgement.

Bryzgalov was a backup when Phoenix claimed him off waivers.

Theyve always gone the cheap route.

I would be more inclined to say Bryzgalov may stumble playing for the Flyers.

Tippet's systems makes goalies look better than they are.
A number of reasons why I took this bet.

1) Bryzgalov was a HUGE loss for them no matter how you slice it.

2) They lost Belanger which now means that they have the weakest center depth in the league (how has that fared for us the last 2 seasons in terms of the standings?).

3) They lost Jovonovski, maybe not as big of a loss as Belanger or especially Bryz, but that's 3 significant players in one offseason.

4) Besides Dallas there are no easy wins in their division. LA, Anaheim, and San Jose will all be playoff bound.

5) The Oilers center depth improved which will help our PK and ES play.

6) Our division has Colorado, Minnesota, and Calgary in it (all weaker that the 3 Pacific teams that I've listed above).

7) I'm expecting Hall at least of our 3 kids to take it to another level.

8) IMO we improved our defense by ditching Strudwick and Foster.

9) We will have some actual bottom 6 players playing in the bottom 6 besides Jones in Eager/Belanger/Horcoff.

10) This will not be your Edmonton Oilers of the last 2 years, this will be a team on the rise, a small rise, but no longer the league's worst team.

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08-02-2011, 12:07 PM
  #54
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On paper I think we have a better roster than:

Florida, Phoenix, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Colorado, NYI.

That said, injuries will decide much of where teams finish. If the Oilers are healthy and other teams get hammered with injuries (example if St. Louis lost Halak, Calgary lost Iggy or Minnesota lost Koivu), I could see the Oilers getting into contention for 8th in the West.

I think the goal (and expectation) should be to finish with over 80 points and be out of the no.1 pick lottery picture.

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08-02-2011, 12:42 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
A number of reasons why I took this bet.

1) Bryzgalov was a HUGE loss for them no matter how you slice it.

2) They lost Belanger which now means that they have the weakest center depth in the league (how has that fared for us the last 2 seasons in terms of the standings?).

3) They lost Jovonovski, maybe not as big of a loss as Belanger or especially Bryz, but that's 3 significant players in one offseason.

4) Besides Dallas there are no easy wins in their division. LA, Anaheim, and San Jose will all be playoff bound.

5) The Oilers center depth improved which will help our PK and ES play.

6) Our division has Colorado, Minnesota, and Calgary in it (all weaker that the 3 Pacific teams that I've listed above).

7) I'm expecting Hall at least of our 3 kids to take it to another level.

8) IMO we improved our defense by ditching Strudwick and Foster.

9) We will have some actual bottom 6 players playing in the bottom 6 besides Jones in Eager/Belanger/Horcoff.

10) This will not be your Edmonton Oilers of the last 2 years, this will be a team on the rise, a small rise, but no longer the league's worst team.
Phoenix was swept by Detroit last year because of how flat out horrible Bryzgalov played. I'd rather Smith or Labarbera. And Phoenix's center depth is actually very good. Hanzal and Turris are both better than any of our centers and Doan is better than anyone on our team... Phoenix is like Minnesota, they make average goalies look elite

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08-02-2011, 12:59 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Oilersfan2354 View Post
Phoenix was swept by Detroit last year because of how flat out horrible Bryzgalov played. I'd rather Smith or Labarbera. And Phoenix's center depth is actually very good. Hanzal and Turris are both better than any of our centers and Doan is better than anyone on our team... Phoenix is like Minnesota, they make average goalies look elite
I think Phoenix will probably be better than us next year but I think the bolded comment is just plain wrong. Belanger put up more points than either Hanzal or Turris last season on the Coyotes and he's with us now. Neither of Hanzal or Turris have ever put up a 40 point season like Gagner has consistently and Horcoff outscored them last year despite only playing half a season. They are in trouble down the middle. Doan might be better than anyone on our team as an all round talent but I dont think he's a bigger scoring threat than Hemsky or Hall at this point.

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08-02-2011, 01:33 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by NAF View Post
I will take that bet, sir. =) I'm not deluded enough to think we're out of the lottery this year, but by God if I can't believe we'll be better than Phoenix ... I don't even want to finish that thought. ...
Good for you. So all the spots are filled. For the rest of you that were saying we were going to be better than Phoenix but didnt take the bet...............Phhhht!

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08-02-2011, 01:58 PM
  #58
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Honestly? The Avs are the only team i can think of, that are worse than us as it stands for now. If our young, unproven players develop like i expect them to, i'd say we're better than Florida, Ottawa, Colorado.. and maybe the Islanders.

Still.. Fail for Nail (or Grigorenko) ! Being the bottom feeder is painful, but the reward will make up for it easily.

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08-02-2011, 02:04 PM
  #59
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Double post.

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Old
08-02-2011, 03:49 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
I think Phoenix will probably be better than us next year but I think the bolded comment is just plain wrong. Belanger put up more points than either Hanzal or Turris last season on the Coyotes and he's with us now. Neither of Hanzal or Turris have ever put up a 40 point season like Gagner has consistently and Horcoff outscored them last year despite only playing half a season. They are in trouble down the middle. Doan might be better than anyone on our team as an all round talent but I dont think he's a bigger scoring threat than Hemsky or Hall at this point.
Hanzal is great defensively. He might not outscore Gagner or Horcoff, but I'd rather Hanzal any day of the week. And Turris is going to have an insane year this year. He finally started to show why he was a 3rd overall selection.

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08-02-2011, 04:12 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilersfan2354 View Post
And Turris is going to have an insane year this year. He finally started to show why he was a 3rd overall selection.
Or he could **** the bed and play like crap.

He hasn't proved anything regarding consistency yet. He is as proven as MPS.

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08-02-2011, 04:56 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Oilersfan2354 View Post
Hanzal is great defensively. He might not outscore Gagner or Horcoff, but I'd rather Hanzal any day of the week. And Turris is going to have an insane year this year. He finally started to show why he was a 3rd overall selection.
Belanger is great defensively and outscored him last year, dont see how Hanzal is an upgrade on what we have. If Turris does show up then maybe you'll have a leg to stand on but as of right now, on paper he's worse than any of our top 3 and there's a fair chance he's not as good as RNH this season.

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08-02-2011, 05:32 PM
  #63
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Or he could **** the bed and play like crap.

He hasn't proved anything regarding consistency yet. He is as proven as MPS.
Correct, And any number of young prospects like Eberle, Hall, RNH, Omark.

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08-02-2011, 05:48 PM
  #64
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I think Turris breaks out this year. He will show why he was selected third overall but I don't know if Phoenix will finish higher then us. Mike Smith is terrible. Look at Tampa once they acquired Roloson. When they had Smith and Ellis, they were bad but once Roloson was acquired, they went on to eliminate both Washington and Pittsburgh. On top of that Phoenix lost Belanger and Jovanovksi. They lost some key pieces this year.

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08-02-2011, 06:29 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
Belanger is great defensively and outscored him last year, dont see how Hanzal is an upgrade on what we have. If Turris does show up then maybe you'll have a leg to stand on but as of right now, on paper he's worse than any of our top 3 and there's a fair chance he's not as good as RNH this season.
Avatar bet that Turris outscores Belanger?

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08-02-2011, 06:31 PM
  #66
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on paper not many

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08-02-2011, 06:35 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
Correct, And any number of young prospects like Eberle, Hall, RNH, Omark.
We can get into that debate, but I think ON PAPER, Eberle and Hall look much better than Turris.

In reality, Turris could outscore both of them.

That is somewhere no one will ever agree on.

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08-02-2011, 10:53 PM
  #68
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The thing with PHO, if you look at capgeek.com is that many of them are in the last year of their contract. What this means is that when they are out of the playoffs and cannot resign some of their guys because they don't want to be a part of the ongoing ownership gongshow, they are going to have a massive selloff at the deadline, and thus a massive nosedive at the end of the year.

Ottawa could also go full rebuild at the deadline (Alfie? Spezza?)

Other teams at the bottom have been rebuilding already for a while and therefore have less to sell off.

PHO has only 10 players signed for next year, ten! Obviously some unsigned players are RFAs but these are some of their UFAs next summer:

Doan!
Whitney
Stempniak
Rozival
Aucoin

They could really spiral downward if players want to bolt and/or if the powers that be want to rebuild. Great year to do it!

I currently have a man-crush on all the 3 Russian forwards in next years draft. Bottom five finish for me is great and the following year have a good shot at playoffs.

Edit: just noticed Doan and Whitney have NMCs and Rosy has a limited NTC. I really wonder if they wouldn't waive it in the final year - its not like they have any certainty for their families being there.


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08-03-2011, 12:04 AM
  #69
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Doan loves Phoenix and doesnt want to leave. He has been one of the more vocal players when it comes to keeping the team in Phoenix. If they get decent goaltending they will be a playoff team and wont be selling off assets at the deadline. We will be so far behind them that this issue will be resolved by Christmas.

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08-03-2011, 12:09 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Doan loves Phoenix and doesnt want to leave. He has been one of the more vocal players when it comes to keeping the team in Phoenix. If they get decent goaltending they will be a playoff team and wont be selling off assets at the deadline. We will be so far behind them that this issue will be resolved by Christmas.
You are correct on this - they will be selling their assets on December 31, 2011

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08-03-2011, 12:11 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Doan loves Phoenix and doesnt want to leave. He has been one of the more vocal players when it comes to keeping the team in Phoenix. If they get decent goaltending they will be a playoff team and wont be selling off assets at the deadline. We will be so far behind them that this issue will be resolved by Christmas.
For a big chunk of the year we were chasing New Jersey for the worst record in the league, which was unthinkable, so who really knows.

It seems like every year there's one established team that just seems to "crash".

We're a hard team to predict, because a lot is based on how our kids develop, and honestly a lot of that is on the kid. Some kids are simply special and have so much ability that a franchise is basically just taken along for the ride.

I'm expecting another top 5 pick next year, but if it doesn't happen great. If it does happen, well then we get RNH and maybe a Grigorenko or Ryan Murray coming into our core group. Not the worst thing in the world.

What I do like about our team is the type of talent we have. There's an explosive element to it that I don't think we've had in a long time. Lets just have fun next year and see what happens. I think you will get more "Eberle makes the entire Flames blueline + Kipper look like pylons, Hall explodes for a third period hat trick, Omark makes some insane highlight reel move" etc. type moments next year.

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08-03-2011, 01:25 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Doan loves Phoenix and doesnt want to leave. He has been one of the more vocal players when it comes to keeping the team in Phoenix. If they get decent goaltending they will be a playoff team and wont be selling off assets at the deadline. We will be so far behind them that this issue will be resolved by Christmas.
With rumours of moving, the exodus has already begun. Why would Doan not want out when the writing is on the wall? By the trade deadline, there won't be another buyer and the team will be looking to move to Hamilton, Quebec, etc.etc. Even if that doesn't happen next summer, players will want out so they can decide where they will settle without being uprooted at a moment's notice.

FLA has made some improvements at F and D. If Theodore finds form they'll win their share. Underrated on here, IMO.

OTT doesn't look too bad either. Bottom five yes, better than us, probably.

NYI are set to take off this year. Bottom five maybe, better than us, probably.

CGY are going to sink this year. I just hope they get to just miss the playoffs again. I don't want them anywhere near the top 10 next draft.

WPG I think will be near the bottom. Being in Winnipeg, I'd personally love to see them land a top 3 pick. They need more elite talent and they're not getting it from the UFA route.

COL doesn't look great on paper - they have better centers and a better goalie, and that's about it. We'll beat them.

We play in a weak division. We'll get our share of wins. Probably finish 6-7 last - I don't know who we're passing, but we can't be at the bottom again with the talent we have if we stay healthy. Since we're not going to make the playoffs, I want another top 5 pick:

Yakupov
Grigorenko
Galchenyuk
Murray
Reinhart
Ebert

With one of these elite guys or players like them at the time of the draft, we'll have the talent and the assets to build a contender and an extremely fun team to watch. Great time to be a fan - going up from here after this year!


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Old
08-03-2011, 02:13 AM
  #73
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We're making the playoffs next year.

The way I see it, we'll finish 8th ahead of Columbus, Minnesota, Calgary, Colorado, Phoenix, Dallas, St. Louis.

As for the eastern conference teams, we'll be better than Florida, Toronto, Winnipeg, NY Islanders, Ottawa

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08-03-2011, 03:02 AM
  #74
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We're making the playoffs next year.

The way I see it, we'll finish 8th ahead of Columbus, Minnesota, Calgary, Colorado, Phoenix, Dallas, St. Louis.

As for the eastern conference teams, we'll be better than Florida, Toronto, Winnipeg, NY Islanders, Ottawa
I highly doubt that we'll be better than the teams that I bolded above.

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08-03-2011, 03:31 AM
  #75
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