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Coliacovo or Tyutin (merged)

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08-06-2004, 08:48 AM
  #1
ChrisKreider20
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Coliacovo or Tyutin

He gets an 8, Tyutin gets a 7 on future rankings?
How does this happen? Is it just me or do the leafs overrated their few prospects?

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08-06-2004, 10:17 AM
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Tyutin is better.

Hell, Kondratiev and Tyutin are both better than Carlo C.

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08-06-2004, 10:25 AM
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Carlo is one of the most overrated prospects in hockey. He got all that hype because he racked up a lot PP points in juniors playing with great players. Many Leaf fans agree

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08-06-2004, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
Carlo is one of the most overrated prospects in hockey. He got all that hype because he racked up a lot PP points in juniors playing with great players. Many Leaf fans agree
I don't think so.

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08-06-2004, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkrangers
Tyutin is better.

Hell, Kondratiev and Tyutin are both better than Carlo C.
Kondratiev isn't as good as Colaiacovo. Having seen them both, I'd take Colaiacovo in a second over Drats. And I'm a fan of Max.

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08-06-2004, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
Carlo is one of the most overrated prospects in hockey. He got all that hype because he racked up a lot PP points in juniors playing with great players. Many Leaf fans agree
Just curious, is there any prospect that plays outside the Rangers org, that you think is not overrated? First Coburn, now Cola. I happen to know several die-hard 'Leafs fans (from the very heart of Toronto) and they love Cola. The same way that the Trashers love Coburn. Just becuase Tyutin and Kondratiev are Ranger prospects, that doesn't mean that they are automatically better than Coburn and Colaiacovo

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08-06-2004, 10:40 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkrangers
Hell, Kondratiev and Tyutin are both better than Carlo C.
So why did the Leafs trade Kondratiev to us and not Colaiacovo?


Last edited by Bacchus: 08-06-2004 at 10:44 AM.
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08-06-2004, 10:58 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Just curious, is there any prospect that plays outside the Rangers org, that you think is not overrated? First Coburn, now Cola. I happen to know several die-hard 'Leafs fans (from the very heart of Toronto) and they love Cola. The same way that the Trashers love Coburn. Just becuase Tyutin and Kondratiev are Ranger prospects, that doesn't mean that they are automatically better than Coburn and Colaiacovo

No one else develops prospects like we do.

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08-06-2004, 11:03 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz
So why did the Leafs trade Kondratiev to us and not Colaiacovo?
rumor is that sather wanted kondratiev, not colaiacovo. and i've heard that toronto offered him but sather said no, he wanted kondratiev instead...(only time will tell if that was smart or not)

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08-06-2004, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
rumor is that sather wanted kondratiev, not colaiacovo. and i've heard that toronto offered him but sather said no, he wanted kondratiev instead...(only time will tell if that was smart or not)
Hm... Well, I don't feel that Colaiacovo is the 2nd coming of god but I hope this is just a rumour.
I'd take him over Kondratiev.... But time will tell.

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08-06-2004, 11:16 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
rumor is that sather wanted kondratiev, not colaiacovo. and i've heard that toronto offered him but sather said no, he wanted kondratiev instead...(only time will tell if that was smart or not)
Where'd you hear this?

Following trade talks as a die-hard (understatement) Leaf fan, I never heard anything about JFJ offering Colaiacovo to the Rangers.

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08-06-2004, 11:26 AM
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I like both of these guys but i gotta go with Tytuin

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08-06-2004, 11:46 AM
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Tyutin looked like he belonged in the NHL last season and that should give him a leg up on Cola in any rankings. However, Tyutin was not impressive upon returning to Hartford. I could care less where these players are ranked. I'm more than happy to have Tyutin in NY.

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08-06-2004, 11:48 AM
  #14
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"Just curious, is there any prospect that plays outside the Rangers org, that you think is not overrated? "

Most Leaf fans I talked to don't believe the Carlo hype. In fact, we didn't even ask for him. We wanted Kondratiev. You have to figure that with Toronto's defense being so pathetic, if Carlo was this elite prospect he would have found a way on the team.

I don't think it is out of line to state a guy who couldn't make the team to start off the year over Kondratiev, finish the year on a team with a shortage of good defenseman, or was a player the Rangers asked for in a deal for Leetch, is overrated.

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08-06-2004, 11:52 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
In fact, we didn't even ask for him. We wanted Kondratiev. You have to figure that with Toronto's defense being so pathetic, if Carlo was this elite prospect he would have found a way on the team.
Where did you hear that? That's not what I hear/read. Way that I know the story was that Sather was told that 2 players were not available. And they are Steen and Cola. Sather DID aks about him, but was told he was not available. So we got Kondrateiv instead.
The 'Leaf defense was not really all that pathetic. The wide-open style that they play as a team is what made the D look bad at times. Just becuase someone is an elite prospect, does not mean that said prospect doesn't need seasoning in the minors.

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08-06-2004, 11:56 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
Most Leaf fans I talked to don't believe the Carlo hype.
Really? That wasn't the response we all heard when his name was floated in the Leetch rumors prior to the trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
You have to figure that with Toronto's defense being so pathetic, if Carlo was this elite prospect he would have found a way on the team.
Leetch. McCabe. Marchment. Kaberle. Klee. There's worse blue lines in this league.

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08-06-2004, 11:56 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Where did you hear that? That's not what I hear/read. Way that I know the story was that Sather was told that 2 players were not available. And they are Steen and Cola. Sather DID aks about him, but was told he was not available. So we got Kondrateiv instead.
The 'Leaf defense was not really all that pathetic. The wide-open style that they play as a team is what made the D look bad at times. Just becuase someone is an elite prospect, does not mean that said prospect doesn't need seasoning in the minors.
You're good.

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08-06-2004, 12:02 PM
  #18
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Look at Stajan vs. Lundmark

Clearly Lundmark is a vastly overrated prospect. I also think Moore is overrated also. Clearly Stajan was underrated as a prospect.


My point is I don't buy much into where players are rated. I buy into facts. Toronto was hurting on defense and Kondratiev made the team to start off and Carlo didn't. That's a fact. If he was such a great prospect he would have made that team at some point last year. Much like Lundmark would have found a way to be more productive by now.

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08-06-2004, 12:07 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
I buy into facts. Toronto was hurting on defense and Kondratiev made the team to start off and Carlo didn't. That's a fact. If he was such a great prospect he would have made that team at some point last year. Much like Lundmark would have found a way to be more productive by now.
If you buy into facts, then you would know that the ONLY reason that Kondratiev "appeared" to have made the team is because 1) Mcabe was hurt & 2) The 'Leafs felt that Carlo would be better served with another year in the minors.
And let's not get into the Lundmark debate, again, shall we? Much as there were enough things that were clearly his fault, his development and treatment by Sather was no way to bring along a youngster.

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08-06-2004, 12:11 PM
  #20
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Another reason would be that Carlo Colaiacovo and Bryan McCabe were both injured during training camp.

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08-06-2004, 12:12 PM
  #21
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I seriously doubt the reason he made the team was because McCabe was hurt. The Leafs were unhappy with their defense all year long. They played him because they felt he had a lot of talent and wanted to see if he was an answer on defense. I don't believe they put a kid like him on the roster just to buy time for McCabe. That is something our stupid team would have done before we started to rebuild. That makes no sense.

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08-06-2004, 12:15 PM
  #22
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Hey if Carlo makes the team and plays well then I'm wrong. I'll believe it when I see it. I also got to see Carlo play some minor league games and I wasn't impressed. Much like with Moore on our squad. I kept hearing he had a great year for the baby Leafs. I didn't see it in the games I watched him play. Yes it wasn't many and it probably isn't fair to judge him on those few games. However, while stats often don't tell the whole story it didn't look like he had a great year overall.

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08-06-2004, 12:23 PM
  #23
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I'm no Leafs expert but I had read that Drats made the Leafs and then when players got healthy, he was going to the minors, so let's not hype Drats to no end. Besides, the fact that he "made the Leafs out of camp" doesn't really mean much. Purinton "made the Rangers team after camp" but that doesn't mean he's some awesome prospect.

blackisback: Just because a player does or doesn't make a team one year does not mean he's a worse "prospect" than players who made the team. We're talking about prospects here, not players who are necessarily ready for the NHL. The fact that Hugh Jessiman did not make the Rangers last season does not take away that he was still the Rangers top forward prospect heading into last season.

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08-06-2004, 12:27 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
I seriously doubt the reason he made the team was because McCabe was hurt. The Leafs were unhappy with their defense all year long. They played him because they felt he had a lot of talent and wanted to see if he was an answer on defense. I don't believe they put a kid like him on the roster just to buy time for McCabe. That is something our stupid team would have done before we started to rebuild. That makes no sense.
What are you talking about? The ONLY reason that Kondratiev was seen to have made the team was becuase Mcabe was hurt. And, if 'Carlo was hurt as well, guess who was next in line? Why do you think that Kondratiev never played with them? Becuase McCabe came back from his injury MUCH earlier than anticipated, 'Drats never got a chance to play. Those are the facts. It had nothing to do with the 'Leafs desire to insert him into the lineup. Had McCabe never gotten hurt, Kondratiev would have never been seen as an issue.
And as for the so-called sorry state of the 'Leafs defense, again look at what Melrose wrote. A team, even without Leetch, that throws out McCabe, Marchment, Kaberle, and Klee is hardly in the rough shape that you are trying to make it out to be.
Look, no one is saying that Kondratiev is a bad prospect. However, you are trying to ram him into a category that he does not belong in, just becuase he is now on NYR.

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08-06-2004, 12:29 PM
  #25
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I agree Chief but when you are well up on the top 50 list of prospects you would think that player could crack a team if they were weak at the position he played. Carlo was rated 31rst. I just think if you are thought of that highly you can find a way to make the NHL at Carlo's age when your team is hurting on defense. The Leafs gave up an awful lot to add some defense over the course of the season. I just think that shows a lack of confidence in Carlo. I know Leetch can't be compared to any prospect.

However, to give up a number 1, a 2, Immonen and Kondratiev to get Leetch tells me that aren't very confident in this kid to be a difference maker.

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